HMS Vanguard by RMC - FINISHED - Amati/Victory Models - scale 1:72

[Beef Wellington]

Bob - wow, thats an amazing paint job on the stern moldings, very nice indeed.  I don't know what is reflected in the instructions but looking at your previous post and the photos above it appears that the molding is in line with the plans, but what seems to be missing is some addition detail beneath the large molded piece (where you've painted red,and also above the port & s'bd windows) - are there more pieces to go in there?

 

[RMC]

Jason: yes there are.  Putting them on accurately will be difficult if the facia is already attached the the model.

 

Consequently I have pretty well decided to apply as much of the decoration as possible to the facia before attaching it to the model.  I shall try to provide the required curvature of the facia off the model.  I will use Krystal Klear (the window stuff) as an adhesive - though I need to test whether it will properly adhere to the resin molding by using one of the 'spares' supplied with the kit.  It is flexible and I hope will provide any 'give' necessary when the whole lot is attached to the model.  If the KK doesn't work I will use gel CA, which I now use on most applications.  I am concerned not to get glue - of whichever type - all over the place.

[RMC]

I have now applied most of the decoration.  Applying it accurately on the model would have been quite difficult. I was still .5mm out on one decoration  - those who may be interested may care to find where.

 

 

The first two photos show how the required curvature of the facia was derived. A piece of timber strip was taped to where the facia will be attached, and the curvature drawn on a piece of paper.  I then used this as a template to shape a piece of balsa.

 

 

I then pressed the large decoration and the facia together over the shaped piece of balsa. To get the decoration to the correct height I clamped a piece of strip across the facia so that the decoration only had to be moved laterally to position it correctly (no photo, sorry).

 

 

 

The gold decorations on the facia required quite a bit of filing to obtain a good fit, and the two small decorations above the top windows did no fit and needed to be trimmed.

 

 

A fair bit of fiddling was needed on the stern to make the facia fit properly, but the dry-fit shown suggests it should turn out reasonably well.

 

 

On a different note. I have discovered that Xylene will take off any residual polish on copper better than anything else I have tried. I am now waiting to apply the clear matte sealer.  It must not be too humid (<65%) and it has rained virtually every day for the last fortnight. I didn't rain for two months before that!

 

Edited April 9, 2014 by RMC

[Timmo]

That looks superb Bob. A very fine paint job on that stern decoration that compliments the rest of the build and shows all the cherubs nicely! I wasn't a fan of the red background on the stern of vanguard as seen on shots of other versions of this kit but you've convinced me with your efforts.

[RMC]

Thanks Timmo for the encouragement.

 

Bob

[Blue Ensign]

Very nice work Bob, well done.

 

B.E.

[Beef Wellington]

Thats a great technique to use to get the fascia attached off the ship where it must be easier to handle. Does the resin part bend easily enough?  The stern is reall coming together now.

[aliluke]

Superb outcome and great technique Bob. I will try it.

[RMC]

To all: thanks for your kind comments.  The facia still has to be attached to the stern and I have concerns about how to clamp it on for gluing.  (Suggestions welcome.)  Choosing the right glue is also a problem.  (Gel) CA fogs the windows and other glues take some time to set - so clamping of some sort is necessary. I will probably use CA in places not near the windows I have already glazed on the side, and either Krystal Klear or ordinary wood glue for places which are close to the glazing.  I now regret glazing before sticking the whole lot on.

 

BW: the resin does bend fairly easily to the required curvature.

[RMC]

I have finally given the copper a coat of sealer (5 coats actually) - Tamiya PS55.  The product was recommended by Brian C who has used it successfully on his ships. The early signs are good, though I've been sucked in before.  I will leave it overnight to dry, though it seems to be completely dry now - after less than 30 minutes.

 

In the meantime I have been working on the rigging of the guns,  At this scale it's quite difficult.  Any guns that will be hidden by the upper deck will remain unrigged.  My masochism only goes so far.

 

I have made an experimental rope coil using a method I happened to come across in model ship world mark 1.  A photo is attached with a gun to show scale.  To my eye the coil looks rather odd. I have looked at the coils of others, and it almost seems there are as many ways of making them as there are modellers. I would like to get it (reasonably) right. - advice would be welcome.

 

Edited April 12, 2014 by RMC

[aliluke]

Hi Bob

I think your coil is too tight. You need to think about how much rope would actually be needed = very little and you should make the middle of the coil more open. I use double-sided tape. Stick it down to a flat surface e.g scrap plywood. Start the coil with an instrument that gives you the right internal diameter for the coil - a piece of dowel or a round ended tool and wrap the rope round that while keeping it stuck down to the tape. I think four or five turns are more than enough. When finished paint with diluted PVA or even CA glue. When dry gently scrape it off the tape, flip it over and the coil is done. My AVS log shows a result that I like. I used CA glue. The coil once it is flipped over doesn't show any glue at all. The coils will have a left or right hand set. You can make many at random and work out the set later. With CA glue each coil takes a matter of minutes to make.

 

Hope that helps.

[RMC]

Hi Alistair

 

It certainly does.  Your method seems much more satisfactory.

[Mirabell61]

Bob,

 

well done painting on the Stern decoration, precise and accurate !

 

Nils

[aliluke]

Bob

I agree with Arthur. The running end is taken under the coil and then appears to the outside of the coil. That is why it has a left and right hand set. My method still stands but there are many that you can try. I concede that I've only done this for 8 cannons and many are much more experienced than I. Your Vanguard is a beauty btw.

[RMC]

Thank you all for the advice. I will follow it as best I can.

 

I have just looked at the sealing of the copper.  Again there has been some sort of reaction.  It is VERY depressing.  It is in a small area on one side which, when the model is mounted, will not be seen, but if experience is a guide the affected area will increase.  I will leave it alone for a while to see what happens.   If it does get worse I will strip it off again and apply Alister's method, though it will take some explaining to my wife.

[aliluke]

Hi Bob

I'm slightly nervous about you going down my route. Would hate it to turn into another coppering nightmare for you. It certainly has it is oddities. Some parts of the plates just will not age at all in spite of being treated exactly the same as those along side them. The starboard side of my rudder remains stubbornly bright. Definitely an uneven finish but I guess that gives it the right look. I should be finished it tomorrow morning and will post profiles when it is done.

[RMC]

Hi Alistair

 

Thanks for you concern.

 

The copper supplied does appear to be quite odd.  Some plates - only a few - seem to behave differently to the rest.  I certainly haven't figured out what's going on.  The reaction is obviously with one or more of the polishing/cleaning products I have used.  A clue however is that the small affected patch was a spot I cleaned off at the last minute some tarnish with Brasso.  I polished  it off but I may not have used xylene as I did the rest, just methylated spirits.  Independent of this however, some plates don't behave as others.  I wonder whether the plates supplied come from different batches?

 

Anyway, if the finish doesn't deteriorate any further, I can live with it I guess.

[RMC]

The copper has not further deteriorated in the last 36 hours, so here's hoping. I have started putting on the deck bits and pieces while giving the copper further time to perform its atrocities.  (Photos will follow tomorrow all going well.)

 

The letraset has shown promise (a perfect 'G') , but is far more fiddly and time consuming than I had hoped.  Unfortunately I have run out of the letter "U". Perhaps others have had more success, and I will try again, but I suspect I will end up with the brass etchings.

[RMC]

There has been no further deterioration in the copper after 2 days, so maybe it will be OK. I am going away for a week tomorrow and if it remains OK I will have a bit more confidence.  Hubris has got me before.

 

The first three photos give an indication of  the overall result.

 

 

 

 

The next two show the affected area.

 

 

The area here is in shadow.

 

 

While waiting for a further copper disaster, I tried  a letraset (a subset of which was kindly sent to me by Alistair) to put the name on the stern. I cut and attached some stiff cardboard to the required curve to use as a guide while putting on the letters. It worked quite well, though the letraset didn't. The result was one perfect G and the use of a broader- than-usual vocabulary.  It does look promising however and I have now found where I can get them in Sydney.  I shall try again. Alistair only has 'FLY' to do.  If I do this again I'll pick a ship with a shorter name.  In this case I may just settle for G.

 

 

I have finally attached all the deck furniture, and started the rigging for the guns. I borrowed (stole) Len's idea of putting bricks under the stove. The 'bricks' are from a model railway shop.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2014 by RMC

[aliluke]

All looks better than just fine to me Bob. The copper looks great - hope it holds. The deck fittings look great too, as does the hull. A fantastic model, sharp and crisp - relax on your break and feel good!

[freewheelinguy]

Bob,

 

What a fine Vanguard you are producing.  Great job.

 

I wanted to chime in because it seems adding the brick platform caused a height problem with the underside of the FC.  Can't recall my solution from memory and don't have access, so can't give any more information.  Just be aware of the possible problem.  I do recall it was a easy solution, though.

 

It's a shame with this added detail, especially on mine with closed gun ports, ships boats is nearly impossible to see this feature.

 

Happy modeling,

Len

[RMC]

Len

Thanks for the thought and the comment.

 

Fortunately before attaching,the bricks, I dry fitted the next deck to see if there was likely to be a height problem. It was a bit too close so I sanded down the bottom of the frame for the bricks until the whole assembly fitted under the deck without touching - though it's still close.

 

I am quite worried about attaching the gun port lids.  With all the moldings near their tops it's not obvious how I can fit them without hacking into the hull.  I wish I had anticipated this problem earlier.

[RMC]

After a week away the copper seems to be behaving itself. 

 

I have begun rigging the guns in preparation for putting on the next deck.   I have decided not to fully rig them - at least on this deck. Most will be obscured and I don't know if I have the patience at the moment to do as good a job as  Arthur and Len who have set the standard.

For rigging the block on the ends of the guns I am experimenting with fine copper wire instead of thread, It seems to be more manageable and more in keeping with the appropriate scale.  Comments welcome.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2014 by RMC

[RMC]

Finally attaching the facia  has been a concern.  I have had a great deal of trouble figuring out how to effectively clamp the facia to the stern.  To prevent the clamps slipping (and to prevent damage to the decoration) I stuck a wedge-shaped piece of balsa to one of the prongs of each of the clamps to account for the slope of the stern (when viewed from the side).

 

There is a slight curve in the facia assembly and the glue will have to resist some stress. I would like to have used CA gel for the whole job but that would risk clouding the glazing.  I ended up using CA on the middle three supports (well away from the glazing) and white PVA everywhere else. I just hope the whole thing doesn't come apart when the clamps are removed tomorrow.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2014 by RMC

[aliluke]

Looking very fine to me Bob. A simple but effective jig. Fingers crossed for the morning removal of the clamps!

[RMC]

Joy.  The glue has held and the facia and decoration are now apparently fixed to the stern. (Thanks for your good wishes Alistair - and thanks all for the 'likes'.)

 

In the meantime I have decided to work on the bow section, as I am now thoroughly sick of the stern.

 

I have tried to put a little embellishment  on the cheeks in the same way as Mitsuaki and Arthur.  Without something, they look rather two dimensional. To scribe the lines, I simply put a copper nail through a bit of 3x2mm strip, and cut a notch in the strip to the required distance from the edge of the respective cheeks.  For the edges of the cheeks I went over the scribed lines by hand with the small cutting tool shown in the two pictures following. This provides a 'U' shape (in cross section) to the edge.  For the scallops (sp?) I used an old french curve (from my school days) and scribed along its edge with a nail.   It all seems to have worked quite well, but of course everything still needs to be painted.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2014 by RMC

[Timmo]

That looks good and crisp Bob. It should come up nicely after a coat of paint. That timber seems to hold an adequate edge without tearing too much.

[RMC]

Thanks Arthur, I'll certainly do that.

[RMC]

I have begun fitting all the bits and pieces of the headrail assembly.  The three gratings when (dry) fitted were about 2mm too short.  Rather than put a piece of 2mm strip at the head of the three gratings (Arthur suggested that doing so made it difficult to fit the main head rail (part 123) to the bottom headrail (90) and the stem) I decided to glue 1mmx2mm strip to the rear and front of the second grating.  This takes care of the 2mm problem.  Of course this creates another problem. The gratings do not fit together flush.  To deal with this I stuck a piece of 1mmx2mm strip (trimmed to 1.5mm) to the sides of the first grating and 0.5mmx1.5mm to the middle grating. The result to my (pleasant) surprise was pretty well perfect.  Whether all of this makes for an easier fit of 123 and 90 remains to be seen.

[RMC]

Something strange happened and I lost the photos. I'll see if this works.