18th century English Longboat by Chuck - FINISHED - c.1760

[Chuck]

No....you should use smaller rope to seize the .021 rope around the mast.  Use smaller .008 or .012 black for that.  The rope is .021 because Expo doesnt have anything else other than really large rope above that size.   My .025 brown line is perfect size for the shrouds.  But for the kit they have to supply only what they have available.

 

Chuck  

[Stuntflyer]

I understand what you are saying about the seizing. The kit supplied .021 rope is black not tan. Should I use this for the shrouds? The tan is .012.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Stuntflyer

[Chuck]

Yes indeed......use some sewing thread to seize the line around the mast.

[Stuntflyer]

Thanks!

[Redbeard]

Hey Chuck!

 

Verrrrry nice build and log !  I just recieved my Longboat and can't find any reference to the paint manufacture or color that you used. I really like the color of red that you used and was hoping you might divulge that info???

 

Thanks, in advance.

 

John

[Chuck]

Thank You!!! 

 

Its Windsor & Newton Acrylic Galleria paint from a tube.   The color is crimson.

 

Chuck

[Nirvana]

Number five was the correct size for me.

Guessing printers varies a lot, as the supposed black for me didn't come out black even at the highest and best settings.

It got a dark green/greyish tone.

However, the pdf version is much much better than the provided in the kit. Both with the resolution and pigments.

Chuck, thank you very much for providing a much better solution for us.

[ryesbeemer]

Hi Chuck,

A quick question: what type of CA did you use for the planking; fast set, slow set, or gel? I'm about to start planking and want to use the best type.

Thanks

Rick

[Chuck]

Medium CA.......Just a drop on each bulkhead.   I only glued two at a time and worked my way across the hull.

 

Chuck

[ryesbeemer]

Thanks, Chuck!

[jsolka]

Very nice. I liked the way you had the frames made with insides to be removed later (well, I'm a newbie, so I don't know whether it is something well known). Wouldn't think of it. Great presentation altogether.

[rtropp]

Chuck,

On the pre cut sheet, above the false keel, there are five cut outs.  Three look like the bow fillers (only use two.)  What are the two smaller cutouts designed for?

 

Thanks,

Richard

[Chuck]

Sternpost...two of them because I gave one extra.

 

Chuck

[rtropp]

thanks Chuck,

Richard

[rtropp]

Hi Chuck,

I purchased Model Expo's long boat kit but I am attempting a scratch build of it at twice the size of the kit.  My question is about planking.

 

Did the full size longboats only have one plank per strake or is that a convention used in the kit to ease construction because of its small size? With the longboat at 26 feet long it would seem that while they could use long planks they would use multiple planks on each strake, perhaps up to 12 or 14 feet long, with shorter ones to stagger the planks between strakes. 

 

I appreciate your help.  I have been taking pictures for a build log but have not gotten to it yet.

 

Richard

[Chuck]

You know I am not sure.   I would imagine they might have multiple plank lengths but this particular size is such that probably they had only one.  Its a small boat.   At most I think they would have two lengths.   But yes...I made a decision to just use one piece for simplicity sake and didnt really even entertain the though of using scale lengths.

[VinceMcCullough]

Chuck/All,

 

I've been studying photos of prototype models of longboats on the National Maritime Museum web site, specifically focusing on the windlass and it's mounting.  In all of the photos that I have seen, it looks to me like the windlass is mounted to a separate board, located below the risers and attachted to the frames under the adjacent twarts.  This board has a horizontal slot, rounded on the ends, into which the windlass barrel fits.  It also appears that there is an opening in the top of the board at the center of ths slot.In some cases this opening is rectangular, but in one case it is keystone-shaped.  In most (but not all) examples it seems to  be filled with a "stopper" of wood.  I SUSPECT that this stopper could be removed, allowing the windlass barrel to be unshipped.  This would provide greater space for things like water casks or other cargo.  Once installed,  the barrel would be slid to either the front or back of the slot, depending on the direction of the line being managed.  Tye rounded end of the slot would provide a bearing surface for the barrel to turn against. 

 

The pictures also seem to show that the windlass barrel tapers down to fit into the horizontal slot.  I suspect this means that there is no separate "axle" for the windlass, but instead that the windless is simply turned down to a diameter that can serve as the axle.  There might have been an iron ring sweated onto the end of the barrel to reduce friction and wear against the supporting slot, but this is conjecture on my part -- there is no evidence of it in the photos. 

 

 

Vince McCullough

[Chuck]

I would agree with you on most of those points...  But yes they were brought down to a small cone shape but as you can see by these photos it wouldnt stay in place unless there was a peg or iron pin as an axis.  The sides were made into a cone I suspect because the sides of the hull inboard curve drastically below the windlass and unless they thinned it down it wouldnt turn unless it was much shorter.  But I suppose they could have worked without a pin.....but wouldnt it be too lo ose?  They dont look very secure this way for and aft.  I wonder how much of it is a model convention rather than an actual representation.   I do know that I simplified this for my kit design.... one could follow these images if they wanted to.

 

 

[VinceMcCullough]

I think you're right - the barrel tapers to a cone outboard of the square section. However, I have a hunch that the cone flattens out to a cylindrical cross section that is slightly smaller than the slot it rides in - small enough to fit through the vertical opening. I will probably model it that way.

 

BTH, I bought four kits. Will be building three as gifts for family members. I should finally know what I'm doing by the time #4 is done.

 

Vince

[VinceMcCullough]

Also, I think it's more than a modeling convention. I looked at photos of several other models as well, and they all have that elongated slot. I think that this represents actual practice.

[aec]

Hello Chuck,

                      I am a modeller from UK and have just taken delivery of one of your Longboat kits from Model Shipways MS1457.

I would like to congratulate you on designing a first class kit and documentation.

                      I have a question regarding the hull planking material.  After reading build logs on this site, I was expecting these planks to be 1/32 inches thick ( 0.8 millimetres in our units).  The planks I have received are 0.02 inches thick ( 0.5 mm)

This seems very thin even if minimal sanding will be required.  Could you comment on this please?

 

  Thank you again for a fine kit,

                                                    Tony Cullen.

[Erik W]

Hi Tony,

 

I recently bought the Longboat and also noticed the planks in the newer kits are .020".  They are poor quality, so are a bit rough on the edges.  After sanding the roughness off I've found that I'll need 13 planks per side of the boat, rather than 12 like others have been using.  Also, Model Shipways didn't update the instructions to account for the thinner wood, so when thinning the false keel at the stern, less material should be taken off. 

 

I'm curious if anyone knows why Model Shipways changed the plank thickness?  It seems odd to arbitrarily change the plank thickness if that's not what Chuck designed the kit to use.  .020" thick planks are nearly paper thin as it is, so don't leave much margin for error when doing the final sanding of the hull. 

 

As the first person posting a build log on MSW of the Longboat using the new .020" planks, I would NOT recommend using them.  Substitute 1/32" basswood planks can be purchased on various sites on the web for around $5 (I personally would not buy them from Model Shipways, since the purchasing of additional planking material is to correct their poor decision in the first place).

 

Erik

Edited July 31, 2015 by Erik W

[Chuck]

For whatever reason,  Model Expo decided to change it.  It was not something I  designed for.   That would be the appropriate final thickness however.  But because the kit has really soft basswood it isnt a good idea to use it.  I recommend going with 1/32" thick basswood wood  having a bit of meat to then sand down to the proper .025 thickness.

 

OR if you decide to upgrade to a harder wood like boxwood then it would be ok to start with a thinner wood.   But as designed for basswood I recommend the 1/32" thick stuff.  Cleaner edges and more room to sand out rough planking jobs if needed.

 

Chuck

[aec]

Hello Chuck,

                   Thank you for your swift reply. I am disappointed that the planking provided in the latest Model Expo kit is not approved by the designer and has been changed without his agreement.  The 40 planks in question are a large proportion of the total wood and are almost the most important part of the whole kit.

If you are suggesting that this wood should not be used, I question the commercial honesty of the kit producer.

Is there any way that MSW can warn other potential purchasers of this major defect in this Model Expo kit?

 

     tony.

[Chuck]

You just did 

[Nirvana]

I like to give a little head up when it comes to the instructions for this model.

I don't know if others has noticed this;  but in the instructions there are several pages where the measurements are reversed.

Planking the Longboat on page 3.

Quoting: "The longboat will be planked with 1/32" x 1/8" strips of basswood".

If I am not wrong I would measure width x thickness, this would mean a very thick piece of strip.

On page 6 regarding floorboards the dimensions are in right order.

Here it is mentioned 3/16" x 1/32".

Now here is the twist, which has my build come to a stop.

On page 7, the thwart for the mast is made out of a 3/16 wide strip.

Now think about this and looking at the pictures in the instructions everyone can see that is not so.

An additional 3/16 strip has been added on to the 1/8" regular strip.

The plan shows the mast thwart at 1/4" wide strip at the widest part.

Again it's only the way I read the instructions and my 2 cents.

[Chuck]

Remember this is an advanced kit...

 

The shape and size of this thwart is clearly shown on the plans.  It can be made in several ways...whether you use a one piece strip and shape it  or build it up with two doesnt matter.   I am not sure how this detail could paralyze your progress.  Not a great deal of aptitude and reasoning is needed.....I did in fact make it from two pieces...I used a 5/32" wide strip for the main thwart and then glued another 3/32" strip to it along the center for the area thats even wider.  Then it was shaped to match the plans by sanding and filing the circular shape to accept the mast.  If you can see the final shape on the plans and were given the thickness of the part along with photos....it really shouldnt be that hard to figure out how to cut it out....whether in one piece or with two.  But for folks who need a little hand-holding...consider the text in bold an addendum to the page of instructions...always follow the plans.

 

 

Model Shipways didnt have the fractional size strip available and so it was decided to go with the 1/8" wide strips at some point.  I mentioned this a few times in other logs.  BUT yes the plans are correct in every respect...always follow the plans...

 

When I designed the kit I actually used 5/32" wide strips for thwarts.  It matched the plans.   But just as MS swapped out the hull planking for a different size recently they did the same with the the thwart material because they dont have 5/32" wide strips anymore.   This was done a while ago but they actually had the thought to change my dimensions in the instructions wherever I mentioned 5/32" wide strips.  Something they forgot to do with the recent change for the hull planking material.  My guess is that as time goes by more changes will be made on the MFG side without addressing the model ramifications.....yes it can get confusing..but always follow the plans.  It is something that they cant change too easily.

 

If this step is what tripped you up then then I am certain there will be more that do.  Its not real difficult.  ....yes maybe the dimensions were reversed...but will someone tell me how someone could get paralysis analysis..because they couldnt figure out that 1/32" x 1/8" is the same as 1/8" x 1/32".   If thats all you found to be stuck on so far I think things are going pretty good.  I think too many people want every last detail and step written about which is a far cry from other instructions.   I am not trying to be a smart *** but really am having trouble with the level of detail needed for some folks.   For any model with so many complexities and parts,  the designer and writer needs to assume that advanced model builders would know how to do some aspects without writing 300 pages of instructions.   This is why this kit was labeled as an advanced kit.   

 

Also...the reason for this group build area is so that if anyone gets stuck, they can just pose the question in their log...or send me a PM and I would explain as it is sometimes difficult for me to check and read every post on this site.  I could miss the question..  I am sure you would have received many way to achieve the same results.   Please remember that for the future.  When in doubt...send me a PM.

 

If anyone finds additional weirdness,  please let me know so I can set the record straight.........SEND ME A PM PLEASE.

 

Chuck

[jonny.amy]

Hi Chuck,

 

My girlfriend bought me this kit for my birthday recently, and I've had a look through all the parts in the box, and generally I am happy with the contents, apart from the rigging blocks. I like the rounded blocks used on your prototype, and I assume due to production costs they changed for the standard rigging blocks used in most kits. I'd like to replace these.

 

I'd like to know how many blocks I would need to buy, and if I can buy the rigging blocks from your website?

 

Thanks,

Jonny

[Chuck]

Of course you can...Just take the parts list and see how many you will need.  I cant break down a package for so few blocks...so you will have to buy a complete package of each size.   Otherwise I would only be selling 15 blocks of various sizes.  I am sure you will find use for the extras on future models.

 

Chuck

[Matrim]

Hmm I might grab some as well. I haven''t taken a close look at the rigging thread in the kit - is your produced stuff of better quality?  as I might add that in as well..