Cutting into a solid hull to make a cabin space for Sultana

[CharlieZardoz]

Hi everyone! Sorry for all the questions lately I'm just trying to plan everything I need for my impending build.   I'm interested in possibly adding a cabin space to the Sultana for a little extra challenge/fun (add some lights furniture etc.) and I figure the replica in Baltimore gives me a lot of reference to work with. My initial thought would be to use a band saw and cut horizontal which means I would have to rebuild the side bulwarks in the process but it would give me an even measurement to work on the lower deck. The other alternative might be to burrow into the hull though I worry about the inner deck winding up uneven. To anyone who as attempted or contemplated doing something similar on a solid model hull I would greatly appreciate some opinions/advice on tools, methods and resources so I can start planning what to read/buy. I put pictures below to show exactly where I plan to cut, forward of the ladder but still leaving part of the poop deck in order to give the deck support.

 

Charlie

[bushman32]

If you use a band saw you will need to use a jig in order to have the depth of cuts equal on all sides. I would go with hollowing out the hull. Use a depth gage to make sure the port and stbd sides of the deck are even with the top of the bulwarks. Along the quarterdeck and poopdeck  make a shelf for deck beams. Which ever way you go I suggest shaping the exterior of the hull first. This way you can see what you have to play with. 

  Ron W.

[CharlieZardoz]

I agree about doing al the shaping first and the depth gauge looks like it would be very helpful regardless. Would you suggest a rotary tool or basic chisel for carving? Good idea about the shelf I'm going to look into more resources about ship insides and I plan on visiting the ship in the near future to see what the inside looks like and take tons of pics/measurements.   

[Jaager]

If you are going to detail the interior, you could give some consideration to doing the hull POF.

[CharlieZardoz]

Well since I'm still relatively new at this I thought I could do it half POF or more aptly the area I have outlined utilizing the kit but adding my own twist to it. The interior of the Sultana didn't strike me as being particularly complex to build as the picture shows but for the moment I have no tools so I'm trying to figure out what I need to buy to do that kind of work without damaging the kit or making a mess. I'm a firm believer that anything is easy with the right tool  I'm also thinking of lighting but that's another post

Edited December 19, 2014 by CharlieZardoz

[JPZ66]

Charlie,

 

At this stage, based on limited space and no tools.....I think I would look at purchasing two items. 1. Some sort of work-mate bench top clamp. Being able to hold the hull securely will be important no matter which way you attempt to hollow the hull. 2. A good quality rotary tool might be just the thing. You will be able to use it for many different tasks ! Of course you will need a fair selection of bits to go with it.

 

If you go at it in a logical progression, you can hollow out what you need to...maybe not the most expeditious manner, but one that will work. Take your time, and measure often !

 

 

Good Luck with the project !

 

Joe

[jud]

I would take that hull to someone with a milling machine, you will endup with a uniform cavity. Could be importent when you start adding your own details.

Or, secure that hull on a movable saw table and slice it into rib paterns or bulkheads to trace.

jud

[CharlieZardoz]

I have to check and see if my grandfather still has one (milling machine).  To say I don't have tools is a somewhat inaccurate statement my grandfather was a tool and die worker and still has a few large machines which is how he did his scratch Santa Maria when I was a kid however I haven't taken inventory on what he has left since they've been in a nice dry shed for the last 15 years and sadly quite a few were stolen a few years back. I'm going to drive over tomorrow and do some investigating and say hi to the fam in the process  The rotary tool is a definite must I plan on investing in a good one, all these are excellent suggestions and I really appreciate the insight.

Edited December 19, 2014 by CharlieZardoz

[tulok]

Nice modification plan, another option would be to get a scroll saw, then, using the sheer profile and body plan, just cut a new set of centerboard and bulkheads making sure that the deck level on the aft-most bulkheads are at the level of the lower deck. Have a look at the rough sketch below:

 

 

 

[BobF]

Charlie -

 

I had a similar situation with a cargo hold I wanted to incorporate into a solid hull.  What you want to do is a lot more complex, but maybe this might work.  Like you, my biggest concern was maintaining a consistent thickness while carving out the hull.  I think the photos pretty much explain what I did.  The pegs were 3/16" long, but you could make them any length you wish.  Once the area was hollowed out, the rest was pretty straight forward.  I ended up installing mirrors behind the cargo to give the illusion of depth.  I hope this helps.  Good luck!

 

BobF

[JPZ66]

Very clever those mirrors ! I had to look twice....hehe...

 

Joe66

[CharlieZardoz]

That's just great! I love it!

[bushman32]

A lot of great ideas for his project. If you get a Dremel rotary tool, Vanda-Lay Industries makes a lot of accessories for it. You can set it up as a small mill, lathe, drill press, and other things. You should go ahead an get a decent set of chisels and gouges. Rotary tool can't make inside cuts square. 

  Ron W.

[CharlieZardoz]

I have a feeling that what I'm going to wind up doing is a composite of these approaches.  Mainly slice into the back of the hull up to the lower deck line but leave three bulwark type areas that I will then hollow out the insides with a rotary tool effective giving the aft section bulwark "teeth" with which to plank over.  It'll also maintain the shape of the hull I'm only hoping the solid hull wood isn't too fragile. I may still change my mind though the model is backordered so when I get it and shape it when it's actually in mind hands I know more.  I am curious what is a good recommendation dremel to get something small enough to do detail work but still powerful enough to get the job done?  Maybe a series 200? Also curious if anyone has any other pictures of the Sultana replica's interior.  It may save me a trip to Baltimore

Edited December 22, 2014 by CharlieZardoz

[CharlieZardoz]

BTW I do still have the drill press which I figure if I use a cross-slide vise it may work as a millmachine.

[BobF]

Charlie -

 

Here are some photos I took of the Sultana's interior, when I attended the Washington NRG Conference in 2001.  I hope they help.

 

BobF

[CharlieZardoz]

Oh yes thank you! It's quite a cozy interior I know I will definitely have to visit myself in the near future.  The pics definitely have me thinking  I'm wondering where the quartbadges are, I hoping it's not the loo! lol

Edited December 22, 2014 by CharlieZardoz

[figuerres]

Dremel : they are great for a lot of things but one item to know is that they need to run at a higher speed than you may want for small detail work.

 

for some detail carving the rotary tools that use a larger motor on a long flex shaft will be able to work at a low rpm and still have the torque to cut well.

 

you can get them for a bit more than the cost of a dremel.

 

I have both and use them both.

[bushman32]

If you go with a Dremel, I would go with what will fit aftermarket accessories. You can somewhat use a drill press for light wood milling, but a few things you need to know. A drill press isn't designed to withstand the forces in milling and a drill bit isn't designed to be an end mill. If you are going to hollow out, drill out as much as you can first.

   Ron W.

[CharlieZardoz]

I'll keep that in mind the dremel rotary and chisel will likely be all that I need since the hull itself is relatively small.  Also looking at the pics I'm realizing that the left and right area's have sleeping bunks which don't extend to the area I intend to hollow out.  So looking at the vertical pic below I'd only really need to chisel out a small space by the ladder area then plank the sides with vertical strips painted white up to the point where the quarter badge doors are.  I can see it in my mind perfectly.  I am wondering if anyone sells little lamps that would be similar to the ones in the replica or if Ill need to scratch build those.  Also I'm still curious what's in those quarterbadge rooms

Edited December 23, 2014 by CharlieZardoz

[mtaylor]

Charlie,

 

ModelExpo used to but I'm not sure if they still do.   You might also check Ages of Sail.