HMCSS Victoria 1855 by Banyan - 1:72

[wefalck]

Makes me itchy to begin with a project I have had in the back of mind for years, one of those steam gun-boats of the 1860s of the Prussian/German Navy ...

[russ]

Pat:

Very nice paint work and attention to detail. 

 

Russ

 

 

[popeye the sailor]

absolutely!   that is one nice looking hull Pat      your paint is very good!

[BANYAN]

Thanks for looking in all; appreciate the feedback as it keeps me motivated

 

cheers

 

Pat

[druxey]

How come I missed this until now? You are doing a lovely job on her, Pat. I'll enjoy continuing to follow your progress.

[BANYAN]

Thank you Druxey; appreciate you looking in and will greatly value any suggestions you may have to offer.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Beef Wellington]

Hi Pat, catching up and glad to see everything coming together so well, nicely done.  Very interested to see how the capstan works out.  Beautiful model.

Edited March 10, 2018 by Beef Wellington

[BANYAN]

Many thanks for looking in and your kind comments Jason, I'll keep you posted on the capstan.  Latest attempt allows most of the detail to be presented such as the capstan bar holes etc, but the bar locking pins are proving too much for the printer at 1:72.  The hardest part will be trying to paint this as I have developed the 'old fella' shakes   The doctor suggested I have a few drams the night before (but was careful to mention that he was not encouraging me to drink :)) 

 

cheers

 

Pat

[DaveRow]

1 hour ago, BANYAN said:

Many thanks for looking in and your kind comments Jason, I'll keep you posted on the capstan.  Latest attempt allows most of the detail to be presented such as the capstan bar holes etc, but the bar locking pins are proving too much for the printer at 1:72.  The hardest part will be trying to paint this as I have developed the 'old fella' shakes   The doctor suggested I have a few drams the night before (but was careful to mention that he was not encouraging me to drink :)) 

 

cheers

 

Pat

I will be waiting to see how it turns out from the 3D printer Pat.

Did you buy a printer or you using a service ?

[BANYAN]

i Dave, thanks for looking in.  The printer is one of 2 a mate of mine purchased; he is a wiz at 3D and G code and rather than learn even more skills before I have mastered the few I have,I have taken up his kind offer to produce these for me  

 

cheers

 

Pat

[DaveRow]

1 hour ago, BANYAN said:

i Dave, thanks for looking in.  The printer is one of 2 a mate of mine purchased; he is a wiz at 3D and G code and rather than learn even more skills before I have mastered the few I have,I have taken up his kind offer to produce these for me  

 

cheers

 

Pat

Lucky you.

I've cracked the G Code, read up on how it works and adjusted it for my printer startup.

I use "Simplify3D" to send the commands to the 3D Printer. So many settings in the program to fine tune the output, one can spend hours testing.

Hope the Capstan turns out well.

[BANYAN]

Thanks mate; yeah plenty of adjustments and trials needed.  He is on version 4 as we speak, but thinks that should crack it

 

cheers

 

Pat

[BANYAN]

Hi again folks, some further small updates.  i have decided I HATE this camera - it shows far too much detail too clearly   These photos are extreme close-ups as the port openings (with bucklars fitted) are less than 20mm across.  They show that I have a lot (did I say a LOT) of cleaning up to do yet.  All those bumps (dust) are not visible to the naked eye.  The one advantage is that it clearly shows where I need to sand, touch-up or square off etc. so that will be the next major undertaking.

 

The first photos show a 3D printed funnel; primed black.  We had started one in metal but getting the panel rivet details etc to show proved too difficult.  The 3D printed one looks OK but has a bit of cleaning up (sanding mainly) to be done yet.  The tie-down rings are small brass eyes I made; chains will be fitted to these and secured at the deck with bottle screws.

The towing timbers (bollards) are made from brass (shown previously) and blackened.  I then sanded the top to simulate the copper cap (as per the contract).  The small wingnuts (first photo) simulate one method by which these bucklers may have been secured in place for sea (battens across the towing timbers and pulled taut with the threaded rod and wingnut.

 

 

I have also fitted the heads (less than 10mm across) and pissdales - this one is shown closed, the opposite has the lid up.  I still have to add a small rope handle to the lids.

I have also dry fitted the rear bench to the transom.

Now back to the sanding and scraping, then touch ups to cover the 'vermillion' that just keeps showing/bleeding through.

 

cheers

 

Pat

 

 

Edited March 18, 2018 by BANYAN

[russ]

Pat:

The details are very nice. Those small pieces along the bulwark look really good. 

 

Russ

 

 

[cog]

Red/vermillion is a nasty colour to cover with a lighter one. Usually best to sand it of as much as possible and than cover with the lighter shade. Another option, prime it first with a light primer. Great details. You do get a lot of etail with the 3D printing, won't you be afraid it will stand out of the rest because of such very crisp details?

[EdT]

Continues to look great, Pat.  You are right about those cameras.  They are not very complimentary to our work - and the dust issue in close-up photos can be maddening.

 

On the red paint bleeding:  I will guess that your are not using acrylics.  In my experience, once they dry they never bleed - even white over red.  Solvent based paints on the other hand....

 

That 3D printed funnel is amazing.

 

Ed

[berniew]

Beautiful work Pat.

Can I ask about  the 3D printing? What kind of printer do you have, what design software do you use..?

Lots of questions as I've been using a 3D printer for years but haven't achieved the quality of yours.

cheers, Bernie

[BANYAN]

Hi all, many thanks for the remarks, questions and likes.

 

General  Comments:  The camera really points/brings out the errors especially at this scale.  In hind-sight the pipes for the pissdales are too large in relation to the dales themselves, and the battens for bolstar securing are a little too thick, but they looked OK before adding them to the model and to the naked eye - I think I will leave these as are.  However, I am not as sure that I can live with the poorly filed tops of a couple of the towing timber.  The problem is that these are two-part epoxied into the waterways and it would be too difficult and risky to file them flat in-situ - I am still thinking on this issue   I need to find a way to better inspect these parts before fitting them.

 

Russ:  Thanks for your kind comment.  There is much more detail to be added yet :).

 

Carl:  Thanks for the suggestions; I will try to sand but may be a tad fiddly.  I think the real issue comes down to the brand of paint I used and I have decided not to use it again - committed to it for this build though.

 

Ed:  Many thanks for looking in and being 'gentle' on my workmanship (especially compared to yours).  I am learning a lot and one of the biggest lessons is not to file freehand (put it in a vice dummy! - I have learned the hard way and you show this in all your work so I should have known better).

I am using acrylic paints, but as I explained to Carl, it is either the paint brand (peculiarities with their composition) or the thinner/reducer I have used as it seems to take weeks to fully cure.  I am leaving the red to settle for a few more days while I clean up some of the other work and then try to recoat it.

As to the funnel, yep a great way to show the details but please see next comments.

 

Bernie:  I did not print this myself - the build is a club effort even though I am doing 80% of the work  or should it be  -  A friend of mine recently purchased a 3D printer from ALDI (German owned grocery shopping chain here in Australia that uses 'special deals' on other merchandise as a marketing ploy and inducement to go to their shops) - he got it for A$200ish - very cheap but seems to work very well.  He uses it with AutoCAD 3D (or some name like that - from the AutoCAD family I believe); it is not much good for 2D but seems great for 3D.  He really knows how to make it 'sing' and experiments with different print mediums and placement of 'holders' etc to get the best results.  I can put you in touch for a private discussion with him about it if you like? Give me a bell or PM.

There is a downside though, every little detail shows through if you airbrush and I am finding the printing pattern, even though smooth to the touch, comes through and you have to use many layers of paint.  That said I think it is a great way to do details such as this and even though not 'scratch' in the purest sense, I still had to do all the research, he had to create the drawing and print it off.  It is similar to buying a resin or PE after-market part I suppose.  

We have plans to try and do the capstan also.

 

cheers

 

Pat

  

Edited March 19, 2018 by BANYAN

[berniew]

Ah yes. I know the machine. It's called the Cocoon and I've heard good things about it despite the low price (Now selling for around $499 from the same store). It seems to be doing a good job for you!

 

[DaveRow]

Hi Pat,

The Funnel came out very well for 3D printing. Impressed I am.

The printed surface, as you have found looks smooth, but rippled with the layering of the filament.

I've bought small diameter nozzles to install on my 3DP, aim is for thinner layers > smoother finishes.

All learning on this method.

Cheers

[BANYAN]

Hi Dave, thanks for that info - if I can eliminate the rippled effect , this would be perfect.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[wefalck]

I have watched the development of the 3D-printing technology for consumers over the past 12 years or. While it is true that things have become a lot cheaper and more accessible, there are inherent physical limitations for each of the technologies (e.g. filament application, localised UV-curing, etc.) that are expensive to overcome, because of the precision required for the mechanical parts. I think the 'digitisation' effects on surfaces that intersect the axes of the printer will remain a problem for filament printing, simply because the filament has to have a finite diametre. Here the spatial resolution (and some other effects) of localised UV-curing will be the challenge.

It is a bit of a Catch 22 for parts such as the funnel: we have the surface details, the rivets e.g., but cannot smooth the surface in between (easily) because of those details. For parts without surface details, this is less an issue, of course. Orienting the part to be printed so that the stepped surface becomes less obtrusive would be a good strategy.

This made me think, whether anyone actually has tried a sort of hybrid process: adding surface structures and details on the printer onto a machined basic shape. In the case of the funnel one would need actually a 4th axis of movement in order to rotate the piece under the printer head. Or one could print the detail onto a suitable carrier foil and wrap this around a core for the funnel. I know that you can buy 'rivets' printed onto decal-sheets - something along these lines, but less fragile than decals.

 

Just thinking aloud ...

[BANYAN]

Interesting comments Eberhard.  My friend was saying something very similar where he is thinking along the line of printing the items on a different axis to overcome some of those 'stepping' issues.

 

Thanks for looking in

 

cheers

 

Pat

[cog]

7 hours ago, BANYAN said:

Interesting comments Eberhard.  My friend was saying something very similar where he is thinking along the line of printing the items on a different axis to overcome some of those 'stepping' issues.

 

Thanks for looking in

 

cheers

 

Pat

 

Wouldn't you get the stepping issue at an angle ... trading straight for slanted lines/ripples ...

Cheers

[wefalck]

The steps will always remain an issue and the more so, if the printing plane is only slightly tipped with respect to one of the axes of the printer. This is inherent to the technology and will require some 'post-processing' for the foreseeable future on all filament printers at least.

 

As noted before, I looked into this technology on and off for the past dozen of years or so, because I was attracted by the theoretical possibilities. Somehow I came to the conclusion that in our case it is probably best suited to print basic, but shapes with complex curvatures. Just as you would get raw pieces from a foundry and finish these using traditional machining techniques, such as turning, milling, or grinding. Generating complex surfaces using a digital technique, whether additive (3D printing) or substractive (CNC milling) will leave you at our scales always with the stepping issue, but will move the most difficult part to the computer.

[cog]

Thanks WEFalck

[popeye the sailor]

really nice additions to the deck layout.......right down to the wingnuts      really super!   I know I'm chiming in a bit late,  but regarding to paint bleeds......I sometimes do a light sand over the affected edge and then touch it up.  fine paper will remove a lot of it, and the touch up is much easier.   

[BANYAN]

Thanks for the additional comments and feedback.  The printing thing is a little out of my 'playpen' so will leave my mate to sort that

 

Thanks to Ed Tosti who provided me with some great info offline WRT to the paint.  I am using a water based paint but it appears it is not an acrylic afterall and the the type of paint does create the issues I am experiencing.  For information, I was using an Australian paint manufactured by a company called by DNA - 'Trident' brand.  It is a good airbrushable paint but be aware it has this bleed issue and dries superfast when brushing.  lesson learned.  I need to experiment with some other airbrush paints to see what works well on wood.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited March 22, 2018 by BANYAN

[BANYAN]

Hi folks some further small details added.  i have now attached all of the cleats, some eyebolts and the ready-use shot garlands, along with the leadsman's platform and the port hawse hole bucklar.  The leadsman's platform will have two stanchions added with a strap between them into which he would have leaned when tossing and retrieving the leadline.  The ladder needs to be redone as the forward rope top knot came loose (cut too close  )  You can also see the heads and pissdales fitted, with the port side head shown closed and stbd open.

 

 

I have also added some detail to the catheads.  The photo is hard to discern detail from but the release mechanism has been fitted with the chain (in the released position).  I am still not sure whether to lead the pull rope for the locking pin up and over the rail as shown or to remove it as it doesn't seem to sit right.  It would have been there as it would be simply to dangerous for a man to climb out (the chain would whip back and catch him when released if he did so.  The chain is 29l.p.i and as a size indicator is that the portholes (actually Lang's scuttles) are only 2mm diameter - so this is ultra close up.

 

 

cheers

 

Pat

[BANYAN]

I have also started on the boiler space skylight and funnel platform.

 

The photo shows progress to date with one hatch and one grating placed, and the funnel dry  fitted in-situ.  I have also attached two photos showing some of the detail for making the gratings (one on each corner) which are open to the weather to ensure adequate air for the boilers to draw.  When shut down, a tarp was drawn over the top.  The other photo shows the corner of the skylight taken from one of very few photos of the ship which confirms the grate is open; the metal batten pins can just be made out - I will add these later.

 

To make the grate, I first cut 4 lengths (sized to fit the opening) with my chop saw, I then stack these with a bit of double sided tape between layers then drill the holes with mill using a sensitive drill attachment.  I then stain and varnish the wood, thread the blackened brass rod (0.5mm) and use a touch of CA to hold the rod ends in place - the whole assembly is press fitted into the opening.

 

cheers

 

Pat

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by BANYAN