RMC

HMS Vanguard by RMC - Amati/Victory Models - scale 1:72

916 posts in this topic

When you do get to the bottom bit, this is what Lees has to say:

 

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Re the Caps Bob, I think you may have picked up the wrong idea. The smaller hole is to fit over the mast head, the larger hole is for the Topmast. In the kits (Pegasus as well) Amati leave the hole round, but the mast head has a section reduced in size to fit this.

 

More properly a tenon is formed on the topmast head to take the cap; the tenon is quite a bit smaller than the section of the masthead so the square hole that I formed to take the tenon is much smaller than the other round hole for the Topmast.

 

Althought the section of the Topmast between the heeling and the cap is eight square the hole for the mast is round and is sufficiently large to allow the hounds at the top of the Topmast to slip thro' the cap so it may be seated atop the eight square section and fit on the Lower masthead tenon.

 

It looks as tho' you have made the mortise in the cap to fit the full section of the masthead rather than forming a smaller tenon.

 

I think you will also find that the forward hole to take the Topmast will need enlarging to allow passage of the topmast.

 

Regards,

 

B.E.

 

 

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Arthur and BE: Thanks for your replies.  They saved me from making a large mistake.

 

I have filled in the large square hole I made in the cap so that it is now 5mm square ready to receive the lower mast.  I have enlarged the small hole to the dimensions of the topmast shown on the plan - about 6.5mm (I can further enlarge it if necessary). While the resulting cap looks a bit ratty, once it is cleaned up a bit and is painted it will be fine. The pictures show the two halves taped together.  I would appreciate your comments on whether or not this does the trick.

 

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That should do the trick Bob, I didn't realise that the cap came in halves on the kit, which incidently is how they were fixed certainly on larger ships at the time.

 

As you say once they are painted up they will be fine.

 

I don't know how you are planning to do your rigging, but if the shrouds are to be fitted on the model then it is better to not fix the cap until they are fitted.

 

B.E

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I do plan to rig it - without sails.  I just looked up 'shrouds' (you can see how much I know about ships) and can see why it will be far easier to rig them before the cap etc., go on.

 

Bob

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Having redone the cap, I have now adjusted the top of the mast to receive it. As i wrote earlier, the cap will later be cleaned up and painted. (Question for BE: your caps have rounded corners - is that the generally correct way or is it unique to Pegasis?) I have also sanded the sides of the mast ready for the cheeks.  Here they are taped on.

 

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In the meantime I have finally finished painting the stripes for the nelson checker.  I painted each one separately so that I could get the depth of each stripe accurately, and each one took at least a day to dry ready for sanding. All told it has taken nearly a month - not that I'm bitter. There is still some very minor touching up to do, but it has turned out well.  The yellow needed 5 coats, and the black four.  I have found with the Humbrol enamel that it is best to thin it by about 5-10% so that it goes on smoothly and without brush strokes.  The following pictures are a bit rough, but I will take some better ones during the touching up process.

 

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freewheelinguy and Blueskippy like this

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Hi Bob according to Lees the corners of the caps were given a  round up until 1820 this accords with the drawings by Steel in his 1794 book.

 

Fine finish you have achieved on the 'bee lines' Bob, the last time I did a Victory model, it took months before I was satisfied with the position and width of the black lines, they are very tricky to get right.

 

Cheers,

 

B.E.

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While away I've had the chance to play with the Proxxon lathe.  It's a really lovely little machine. Below are some pictures of work-in-progress: the jib boom; the fore topmast and the main topmast. Unfortunately the photos don't show the detail very well. 

 

The octagonal sections have turned out quite acceptably.   In these cases I have first, made a square section, then turning  that square at 45 degrees, made another 'square' with the same dimension as the first which then trims off the edges of the original square so creating an octagon.  I check the width of each octagonal face by drawing a large circle on paper then drawing rays from the centre of the circle at 45 degrees.  I then draw circles of the required diameter of the mast I am working on, and measure the distance between where two rays intersect the circle.  This gives the width of the octagonal faces.

 

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I have been worried about  making the square sections at each end of  the masts 'line up' so that the caps etc are properly aligned. My solution is to cut the square sections as accurately as I can (I  use a heavy craft knife, then a file), but very slightly larger than is specified.  I then clamp a piece of wood strip to the sides of the two sections lining them up to see if the two sides are parallel. If they are a little out of parallel, I have sufficient room to make any slight adjustment that may be needed.  It seems to work, though I envy BE's milling machine.

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Looking good Bob, I'm pleased you like the lathe, feel partly responsible for pushing you down that road.

 

Not hinting or anything ;) but the Proxxon Mill is great for squaring the heads out of dowel for the lower masts where the rest of the length is a slightly tapering round.

 

Not so relevant for the topmasts where starting with square stock is the better option.

 

Cheers,

 

B.E.

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David: thanks for the encouragement.

 

BE: The temptation to buy the milling machine is difficult to resist. I presume the one you have is the Proxxon Micro mill MF 70.  This costs about $560 here plus shipping.  I wonder whether buying it is justified, given the amount of use I would make of it at the moment.  While I would love to do as good a job on my masts and yards as you are doing, I think it's a bit beyond me just now.

 

My longer term plan is to use the Vanguard as practice - doing as good a job as I can - and hoping that Chris Watton's Bellona will become available in a year or two.

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I have finished painting the stripes. Masking over the different levels was rather a pain, but came out quite well with some minor touching up.  The Tamiya tape is indispensable.  The irregularities you see below the lowest stripe are below the 1mm timber  'boundary' and will be covered by the copper.

 

I will modify the stem so that it will enable the fitting of the figurehead. (See Arthur's (AEW) log.)  Then there are a few mor bits and pieces to do before I start the coppering.  I'm approaching that with some trepidation.

 

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Here the roundhouse etc have been dry-fitted.

 

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mtaylor, freewheelinguy, Ray and 1 other like this

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After some heart-stopping moments and some advice from Arthur (AEW) I have adjusted the stem to properly accommodate the figure head below the bowsprit.  This entailed making a 10mm cut in the notch of the stem, and making provision for the figurehead's cloak (which I also trimmed very slightly), so that it is 10mm lower than it would otherwise be.

 

This is the position of the figurehead with the unmodified stem.  He would have needed to suffer decapitation to fit under the bowsprit.

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This shows the modification.

 

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The painting of the figurehead is work-in-progress.

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Here are the dimensions of the modification.

 

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Bob: I think you might have to tilt him back slightly to avoid his cloak fouling the head rails, but other than that he should fit OK now.

 

How much do you charge for painting figureheads? :)

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Thanks for the comment Arthur. I didn't think of how the the head rails may be affected. I will play around with them to make sure everything fits.

 

Painting figureheads?  Fortunately I am quite short-sighted, with a reasonably steady hand, and some REALLY fine brushes.  Unfortunately, advice is  the best I can offer, but please don't let me stop you from sending cash anyway.  It would certainly be a nice touch.

 

Regards

Bob

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I had the opportunity to practice with the Proxxon lathe.  It's really nice little machine and I am delighted with it. Over the weekend I completed the parts of the three topmasts where turning was necessary.  Without the lathe the job would have been very difficult indeed. Now come the hard parts where the masts are squared or octagonal. I am waiting for delivery of the extra lathe bed (as suggested by BE) and will work on the longer masts/spars when it arrives.

 

In the meantime here are some pictures of the figurehead, though I see now that the pictures are larger, there is still a bit of touching up to do. As well, I belatedly discovered that the hole for his sword is not deep enough which is a nuisance.  A suggestion/reminder for those who have not so far began painting their figurehead; give it a good wash with something like acetone to help the paint adhere. Unfortunately I forgot.  A tip given to me by a (portrait) painter is to dip brushes in linseed oil and wipe off  after washing them in mineral turpentine.  They become even cleaner and it preserves the bushes really well.

 

 

 

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Now about that contract painting job.....

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David: thanks for the encouragement.

 

I was unhappy with the 'repair' to the cap for the foremast that I messed up earlier.

 

I have made another that has turned out quite well.  I may do the same for the remaining caps which all have two holes, instead of one circular, one square.  I have rounded the cap's corners as advised by BE.

 

The job was a bit fiddly, but for those who are interested, this is one way to  do it.

 

The cap is supposed to be in two pieces, with the overall dimensions being L24xB6xD5mm.

 

I took two pieces of 6x6mm walnut about 50mm long and glued them together with CA, leaving a gap in the centre of about 30mm without glue. I then sanded the resulting piece to the correct (5mm) depth, then drilled a 6mm hole in the centre of the two pieces for the topmast.  Both of the glued ends were chopped off leaving the 'glueless' 24mm in the centre and thus, the two separate halves of the cap.  The notches for square holes were then cut in each half.

 

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Here the two halves are held together by tape and dry-fitted to the foremast.

 

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That's a neat trick Bob, and it gets rid of my pet hate - plywood edges!

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Arthur: I have looked at the remaining caps supplied with the kit, and not surprisingly have the same faults as the foremast cap. I think I will redo them as well.

 

Today I finally gave the painted hull a coat of Estapol (polyurethane) to protect it.  It is mid-winter here and the temperature in the only space I have for spraying paint all over the place is an unheated workroom under the house. Estapol needs to be applied and dried at 10 deg C or warmer.  The early mornings have been around 8 Deg C for the last couple of weeks, so it has been quite frustrating waiting for a warmer couple of days.

 

The Estapol has given a really good finish to the paintwork, and I can start the coppering this week; something I have been putting off anyway.

 

Concurrently I am working on the masts and looking at BE's work as a guide to how it should be done.

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I have  painted and finished the wolding for the foremast. I am reasonably happy with it, though BE has really set the standard. 

 

I will be going to the UK for a couple of weeks in about 10 days and hope to see the Victory in Plymouth.

I'll certainly steer clear of the cricket.

 

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freewheelinguy likes this

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Nice work on the mast, that's another bit I can copy!

What did you use to colour it?

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Neat job on the mast Bob, but I think you will be disappointed if you go to Plymouth to see Victory ;)

 

Enjoy your trip :)

 

B.E.

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Plymouth, Portsmouth,

It's all on the Channel coast, and starts with a P.

He's coming from Aussieland, on his map England is just a mere dot :)

 

Jan

aew and Frank like this

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Arthur: it's Humbrol matt74 - linin (I have no idea what the 'linin' signifies).

 

BE: Jan's right - any P will do - they're all so close together.

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Rather than start coppering, I have decided to work on the masts in the time before I go away. Here is my method of 'squaring' the 12mm dowel for the main mast.

 

1. Determine the lengths of the sides of the square (in this case 8.5mm).

 

2. For the relevant part of the mast, run 2 pieces of masking tape parallel to each other and 8.5mm apart (this is a 'straight' distance (ie, a chord of the circle), not a measurement around the circumference of the circle (I use a compass to mark the distance).

 

3. Make cuts with a small saw across the curved part of the mast berween the two pieces of masking tape.

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4. Cut out the the small 'rectangular' pieces of wood created by the saw cuts.

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5. File the resulting rough surface smooth - the edges of which just touch  the masking tape - creating a smooth surface 8.5 mm wide.

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6. Repeat for the other 3 sides and (surprise - at least to me) it results in a nice square section.

 

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I have tried to show that it IS square in the following picture but it may not be all that obvious.

 

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It came out surprisingly well, but I still lust after BE's milling machine (maybe after a new set of golf clubs).

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