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Louie da fly

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Everything posted by Louie da fly

  1. Louie da fly
    Mark, I think that if there was a separate piece making the end of the hockey stick (why didn't I think of that name?) the downward force of the halyard would cause a powerful moment (turning force) to make the cap piece pivot around its attachment to the mast. Also, all the contemporary representations of the "cap" show it as "U" shaped rather than at right angles. I think the line you mention is probably where the tops of the shrouds wrap around the mast. Carl, you raise a good point and I don't know a good answer except what I mentioned above. But the Byzantines certainly had the technology to make iron reinforcing bands. Anyway, I've bitten the bullet and put the sheave in the blob at the end of the hockey stick. I can't be certain it's correct, but it seems the most logical configuration (always assuming the structure is strong enough). Steven
  2. Louie da fly
    Thanks everyone for all the likes. Thanks also to Banyan and Woodrat. Pat, the only concern I have is that the curved bit may not be strong enough to take the weight of the yard and sail. On the other hand, by judicious choice of trees with branches which approximate the curve (or even training branches to do so) this issue might be overcome. Dick, I've already been mulling over what form the attachment of the yard to the mast will have to be. Haven't got a final answer, but I think a rope loop that can be loosened should fit the bill. Many contemporary and near-contemporary representations, and modern Mediterranean lateeners, have something of the sort. Steven
  3. Louie da fly
    Smoothed off the mast and getting ready for final shaping. Apparently there's supposed to be a sheave near the masthead for the halyard. I have one (modern) source that puts it in the mast itself, but the upper vessel in the Homilies picture above seems to show it centred in the funny curved bit (there's a line coming from there which I'm pretty sure must be the halyard). On the other hand, a picture on the Pala d'Oro in Venice seems to show the halyard going to a point on the mast below the yard. Or is it a pair of shrouds? Mediterranean lateeners generally seem to have the top of the shrouds below the sheave for the halyard. And should I rely on this one as much? Although the style is Byzantine, the text is in Latin, so perhaps it's a Western example. I have to say, having the sheave in the curved bit makes sense to me. If the purpose of the curve is to bring the halyard forward of the mast, then logically the sheave should go in the end of the curve. I'll think about it a bit and decide where the sheave should go. (Sigh) Steven
  4. Louie da fly
    Interesting times. I've had to discard two of the lower bank oars. One I'd made broke in the middle while I was making it and I glued it back together hoping it would be ok. I coloured the inner end blue (it'll be invisible below decks) to remind me, then forgot what the blue was for (having a "senior moment"). But the glueing wasn't successful, so I have to replace it. Another was the wrong shape at the inboard end and also has to be replaced. So here is step one - sawn roughly to shape As I make progress on this I'll post pictures. When I made the lower bank oars I wasn't sure how I was going to attach them, so I left the inboard end rough. Now I'm going through them trimming the inner end of each to fit against the oar frame - in line with the taper of the oar loom, so they'll all be at the same angle when they're attached to the frame. The upper one is before trimming, the lower one is after. I used a ruler as a straight edge to get the correct line. Half are done. Another 25 to go. And I'm now also working on the middle mast. First cutting it roughly to shape with a coping saw: Then trimming it with a Stanley knife. And thinning it down. Roughly trimmed, ready to get exactly to shape. Then I'll take off the corners, and gradually give it a rounded section. When finished, the mast should look like these (from the Homilies of Gregory the Theologian, Byzantine c. 880 AD): Steven
  5. Louie da fly
    I don't know how you guys do this stuff, I really don't. Such detail at such a scale. I had an idea to do a steel warship (perhaps HMAS Australia or a pre-dreadnought) but I think I'll just stick to timber and sail - I don't think I'd ever be able to approach this level of quality. I dips me lid. Steven
  6. Louie da fly
    I've been building my (scratch) dromon model using almost no power tools except an electric drill. However, the sheeting for my planks was kindly cut for me by another member of MSW, otherwise I would have been lost. So I'd say a good bench saw is a must - at least from my own experience. I've used a drop saw to cut some wood from large pieces of timber, but that's because I've been very lucky in getting timber from local trees rather than buying it. An electric drill can double as a lathe with a bit of tweaking (though I carved all 100 oars for the dromon by hand - I don't think they were thick enough for a lathe). My main tools have been a coping saw, Stanley knife and scalpel. Using a power sander to trim down the plug around which I built my model was a real mistake - I took too much wood off and had to build it back up again with builder's bog. I can't see that it's necessary to have a large range of power tools to produce an excellent model. It's more about the individual builder's skill than the sophistication of his/her tools. Steven
  7. Louie da fly
    Well Greg could always drive up there to see the Waterhen model (only 1,013 km). Or fly (2.5 hours on Virgin). But I suspect the models you guys are making could well be more accurate anyway . . . Steven
  8. Louie da fly
    There's a model of the Waterhen at Ballina Maritime Museum, as I discovered while on holiday - see Steven
  9. Louie da fly
    Using a simple jig - a straight edge and a bit of cardboard with an angled side - to mark out the angle for the oars on the lower oar frame, as it's difficult otherwise to get them parallel. The upper bank will be at the same angle, which corresponds to the end of the stroke where the oar handle is pulled right into the chest. (This is to make the upper guys easier to cast). Steven
  10. Louie da fly
    Don't let those Canberrans fool you. All that lake is just a creek they dammed up. Oh, and not only are we Australians the right side up compared with you, we're also half a day ahead. Steven
  11. Louie da fly
    Australia would have its own sources of red, as well. There's a book I've read about restoring Historic houses, which I believe is in Ballarat library, which has quite a bit on the paint colours available before chemical hues came on the market. But I'd be surprised if lead wasn't the basis of the reds used. The colour is still called red lead. But I don't know if Oz paddlesteamers had red paddles. Steven
  12. Louie da fly
    The foremast is done, except for the tenon to go into the mast step. It seems a bit thick, but just about all the contemporary pictures I've seen of sizable lateeners (especially galleys) show quite thick masts - presumably because of the forces exerted by the big sail on that long yard. The first photo shows the mast cut, squared off and smoothed to initial shape. Then roughly rounded off (using a Stanley knife). Beginning the smoothing (using a medium grade file). And finally rounded off properly and smoothed off, going from medium to fine file, then increasingly fine papers. The "blob" at the masthead copied from the one in the St Nicholas picture, with a sheave set within it for the halyard. Now I have to make the mast step and fit it, with a mortise to take the tenon at the end of the mast. The tenon needs to be exactly in line with the sheave so it's not skewiff when it's all assembled. The lower end of the mast will be squared off where it fits against the mast partner. The mast is to be raked forward, the usual procedure with lateeners, to make sure the halyard runs forward of the mast. However, the tenon and mortise will each be square to the mast and the step respectively (the mortise will be long enough to accommodate the angled tenon), so I need a means of keeping the mast at the correct angle. This will be explained in the next post (I hope). Steven
  13. Louie da fly
    That's right. This was a common feature of the yard on lateen-rigged ships of the period. There is also the "wrapped" area at the masthead where the shrouds are tied off. One rope that can't be seen on the bas-relief is the sheet, hidden behind the two bishops and the king. It's presumably belayed somewhere in the stern. Steven
  14. Louie da fly
    Mark, I'm by no means an expert in the lateen rig, but the three lines running from the masthead to the side of the ship are the shrouds, which give the mast sideways support (there's another three on the other side of the ship). In Mediterranean vessels of this period the shrouds were adjusted with pairs of blocks (tackles) rather than the deadeyes that were used in northern Europe and were later adopted in the Mediterranean. The rope at the lower end of the yard is the tack, which holds this end of the yard in the correct place to take best advantage of the wind. I The rope near the top end of the yard has been variously described as a brace or a vang - it was to manoeuvre this end of the yard. I believe it was fairly common to have one each side of the yard. There is also the halyard - a rope to haul the yard up the mast (via a sheave or pulley in the mast) and hold it in its proper place. You can see both sides of it - one going up from deck level (partly hidden by the guy bending over in the bow who seems to be working on the anchor cable) and the other returning downward (running parallel with the mast itself and partly obscured by the guy standing in front of the mast who is holding onto a shroud). Or maybe the other way around. The end you haul down on is called the downhaul. I can't remember the name of the other end. There are two other lines showing in this bas-relief; the anchor cable and a line to help control the side rudder. They're not doing anything to the mast - the ship is simply under sail with the usual lines you'd expect to see on a lateener. They might be adjusting the height of the yard with the halyard, but I don't think so. There isn't all that much info around on the rigging of a lateener - I once had access to a site which was very helpful, but I lost it along the way and can't find it again, much to my disappointment. If anybody spots any mistakes in the above, please don't hesitate to correct me. Hope this helps, Steven PS: There are some very nice pics and videos of lateeners under sail at http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?156203-Lateen PPS: Just looked at your profile, Mark. Didn't realise you do a good bit of sailing, and a lot of the stuff above would be teaching grandma to suck eggs.
  15. Louie da fly
    Thanks for the likes. Cog, the same thing occurred to me - that a separate unit might be a source of weakness. The third picture seems to indicate it as separate, but it could certainly be interpreted that the mast had been made thicker to take the forces acting through the sheave . I'm still in two minds about it. Steven
  16. Louie da fly
    On further pondering, I have come to the conclusion that the "blob" in the first picture is an oversimplified version of the one in the third picture - that is a unit containing a single sheave through which the halyard runs, but that the artist in each case shows the openings on both sides of the sheave in one view (not unlike Picasso.) That's my interpretation, anyway and that's what I intend to go with. I may make the unit containing the sheave a separate piece attached to the top of the mast. I haven't decided yet, but it certainly looks like that is what it is. Steven
  17. Louie da fly
    I'm now working on the form of the fore (main) mast. The 12th century copy of the Chronicle of John Skylitzes held in the Biblioteca Nacional in Madrid contains three pictures of galleys under sail, each of which has a construction at the top of the mast which appears to contain a pair of sheaves, through which I believe the halyards pass. This can perhaps be seen more clearly in the 12th century bas-relief in the church of San Pietro in Ciel d'Oro in Pavia (this photo appears in Genevra Kornbluth's site at https://www.kornbluthphoto.com/Ships.html ). Though the thickness of the ropes seems exaggerated, the curious attachment of the shrouds to the masthead appears in several other representations - in the shrine of St Peter the Martyr in the church of Sant' Eustorgio in Milan, and also in a picture of a galley in the 15th century treatise of Michael of Rhodes (see my posts of July 6 and July 8 2015). The "blob" at the masthead isn't present in this bas-relief, but it is in another representation from about 1310-1320AD which is from the Byzantine church of St Nicholas Orphanos in Thessaloniki, of the Saint saving a ship in a storm. This has more detail and I will probably be following this picture fairly closely. After the false start of the previous post, I've begun on a new mast incorporating the "blob", which I hope will work better. Sorry about the photo quality - it's from my phone. I'm a total newcomer to all this stuff - I really don't know how the lateen rig works except theoretically and I'm feeling my way, hoping I haven't got it too wrong. I'm also still researching the mast step, of which more later. Steven
  18. Louie da fly
    That lathe is brilliant, Tom! I've been agonising over the cost of modellers' lathes and I think your solution is just what I need myself. Steven PS: Great news over getting new employment with a relatively short gap in between. PPS: The cannon barrels look very good. They're about an inch and a half long, right?
  19. Louie da fly
    Well, a lesson in what they call "due diligence". I used some wood previously sawn by the guy across the road (I don't have a bench saw) to start making the foremast. I marked it out, put it in a vice and cut it tapered in both width and thickness with a tenon saw (best tool available, I'm afraid), leaving a bit extra for "wriggle room". As you can see below, the wood broke off on the final cut because the sawblade reached the edge of the wood. But I was expecting that and wasn't worried. Trimmed it down with a Stanley knife (I don't have a plane) and then used a file to get both cut edges nice and straight. The plan was to then convert it from a square section to an octagonal section, and thence to a circle, which is what I'd done with the oars. But I'd wrongly assumed the original sawn edges (from the bench saw) were straight. BIG mistake! When I had it all nicely squared off, I discovered those edges were bowed inwards and the mast was too thin at the narrow end. Nothing I can do - I just have to bin it and make a new one. Had I checked it for straightness at the beginning, I could have allowed for the crookedness and got it right. Back to the sawbench . . . On the other hand, during this process I've been researching contemporary representations of the type of mast I want to make, and I think I was on the wrong track anyway. So maybe it was just as well. The new, improved model should be closer to the original. Steven
  20. Louie da fly
    Piet, I came across this site http://dioramas-and-models.com/how to do it.html which has the best explosions I've ever seen in modelling. It uses cotton, LED lights and (sometimes) cellophane, and looks very good in photographs. I don't know whether it's as good when you see it "live", but it might be worth considering.
  21. Louie da fly
    Patrick and John, thanks for the comments. It's funny, I'm always gobsmacked by the patience and workmanship of other people (including you two guys) - I'm too well aware of my own goofs. Probably a good thing. It gives one the humility to always strive to do better. Steven
  22. Louie da fly
    You know, I'd really never noticed that. But it's true - most 16th century galleons had the foremast in front of the forecastle, not in it. Amazing the things that you just don't see. Excellent work as usual, Patrick. Steven
  23. Louie da fly
    John, You've done a wonderful job on this. I wish I'd thought of this earlier - I did a bit of a browse on "Maori war canoes" and came up with a couple of contemporary (European) eyewitness pictures showing the problematical sail in somewhat more detail. Sorry it's a bit late, but it might be of use when it comes to the Polynesian canoe. There's one from 1770 at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Maori_war_canoe,_drawing_by_Alexander_Sporing.jpg and another from about the same year at https://www.sciencelearn.org.nz/resources/632-waka-revival , though I think the second one is from Polynesia rather than New Zealand. There is also an article at https://stampaday.wordpress.com/2018/02/19/outrigger-canoes-of-fiji/ which though it's ostensibly about Fijian canoes, has quite a bit of information on the New Zealand ones and even has an early twentieth century photo of two Maori canoes under sail, (which perhaps are using the traditional fabric for their sails). Hope this is of interest (and not just annoying because too late), Steven
  24. Louie da fly
    A real milestone - I've just completed the 100th oar, so all the oars are DONE! (And for any purists who may insist I should have spares because they had them in the original . . . nah.) Before I put everything together I have to trim the bases of the lower bank of oars (the bundle on the right) so they're all at the same level and angle when in place. I've temporarily put the frame to support them in place in the hull. I still have some work to do before I'm ready to glue it in position. This is all going to be a bit fiddly, but I'm pretty sure I've worked out a sufficiently cunning plan to dry fit the oars and then take them out and only glue them in position later, so in the meantime I can work on the rest of the ship without the oars getting in the way and perhaps getting broken etc. But before I do that I have to put in the mast steps - which I'm still looking at. It seems to me from the archaeological evidence that the slot in the mast step is rather longer than the tenon of the mast that it is to contain - which probably means wedges in the slot, fore and aft of the mast itself. When I get to deck planking I think I'll have to part-complete it and add the oars and masts while I can still see enough below decks to put them in place. The deck beams are going to be a challenge in themselves. So many of the damned things, probably as thin as the frames. Still considering how I'm going to make them. And after the oars are sorted out, I can put in the companionway down to the lower deck, finish planking the main deck, then put in the crossbeams and support structure for the rudders, and then the prymne (poop deck). And then the forecastle and centre castles . Oh, and . . . It seems you always have to be thinking at least a dozen steps ahead in this game . . . Steven
  25. Louie da fly
    Nice dolphins, Dick. And the perspex makes it seem they're the only thing holding the ship up. Steven

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