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Louie da fly

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Everything posted by Louie da fly

  1. Louie da fly
    I feel the same way, Lou. The ABDA force didn't achieve their aim to stop the Japanese invasion. But they were a scratch force flung together from widely disparate navies with no opportunity to train together or work out a common strategy and tactics - not to mention the language problem! They knew they were outgunned and outclassed, but answered the call with heroism that is hard to contemplate in today's world. Not forgetting the Jervis Bay. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Jervis_Bay Carl, try doing a google image search on HMS Glowworm - several of the photos that are fairly small in the above links can be found larger and with better detail by doing this. Steven PS: Just found another one! and links to higher definition photos - https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cb/1c/70/cb1c700a04541ee2356ef9efa0c5439a.jpg and https://i.pinimg.com/originals/48/84/69/4884695873e57a0ef98a10aaa8697b78.jpg .
  2. Louie da fly
    Just did a bit of a Google search for pictures of the Glowworm. There's some good ones at http://navalwarfare.blogspot.com/2009/06/hms-glowworm-h92.html https://wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?15989 and http://forum.netmarine.net/viewtopic.php?t=3502 (this one's in French, but Google Translate should help if needed - unless you're already fluent, of course. Zut! Alors . . .) and Russian . . https://u-96.livejournal.com/2670604.html with at least one photo the others don't have. Plus these two I hope these help. Steven
  3. Louie da fly
    Nice work, Javier, particularly at such a small scale. I suppose the skids on the bottom are to help run the boat up onto the beach (which is large flint pebbles, if I recall correctly). Looking forward to following your progress on this one. Steven
  4. Louie da fly
    Thanks, Mark. But the shelf needs to follow a smooth curve to get the deck to be consistent, otherwise the deck itself will be all wobbly. Steven
  5. Louie da fly
    Fascinating stuff, L.H. Steven
  6. Louie da fly
    This wee sleekit cow'rin' tim'rous beastie looks forward to following the progress of your cunning plan. Steven
  7. Louie da fly
    Beautiful work, Michael. A real pleasure to watch this build. Oh, and I take comfort from the fact that even someone at your advanced level sometimes misses something (the attachment of the vent stack). I don't feel quite so embarrassed about my own boo-boos. Still embarrassed - I've got a long way to go before I even approach your level of skill - but not quite so embarrassed. Steven
  8. Louie da fly
    Very nice work, Pat. Steven
  9. Louie da fly
    Or a lot of rice. Off the subject a little, but still on the subject of measurement, an acre is an Anglo-Saxon measure of the amount of land that can be ploughed with a two-horse(?) plough in a day . . . (don't ask me about chains and perches and roods, let alone gills and bushels). And the values of measurement units differed from time to time and from place to place, such as the French, Dutch and English values for the foot. When they built the Olympias trireme reconstruction they used one value for an Ancient Greek unit (I think it was the cubit) but discovered in practice they would have been better using a slightly larger value from a slightly different time period, as there wasn't really enough room for the oarsmen (and women) to work the oars without interfering with each other. And the Byzantines had the same thing with their various measures - palm, finger, hand etc. They kept changing, making it very difficult for historians to work out the sizes things had been. Steven
  10. Louie da fly
    I've done a preliminary fitting for the support system I'll be using for the lower oars, to see if it will work. A number of cross-members hold at the correct height a frame with a series of lines all at the same angle, as guides for the oars. The oars go through the oarports with the inner end resting on the frame and the outer end resting on a raised plane (currently two thicknesses of balsa wood) to simulate water level. I've done my best to get all the oars as close to identical as possible, so they'll all be at the same angle vertically when they rest on the frame. Also, they'll be interchangeable so it doesn't matter which one goes where. The other quantity that has to be kept constant is how far the oars poke out from the hull, which is done by simply drawing a pencil line around the circumference of each oar at the point it goes through the oarport. I've only tried it with three pairs of oars so far, but it looks like it will work. Now to get it all done properly, with everything lined up and glued in place. As I mentioned before I won't be putting the oars in till later on in the build so they don't get damaged while I'm working on other parts of the ship. The two mast steps are still in progress - I'm making them like the ones found in the Yenikapi ships. Though they're more complicated than my original version I think it's good to do it the way it was done back in the day if at all possible. The blocking piece is shown above the two mast steps. Sorry about the photo quality. At some point I have to correct the line of the beam shelf - it's a bit wonky and has to be made into a smooth line, or the deck beams - and the deck itself - will also be wonky. As can be seen in the photos, the line wobbles very slightly all along its length. As the beam shelf so narrow and flexible, I can probably correct it by cutting it away from the frames at the offending places and re-glueing it in the correct position. If not, I'll have to cut and fill till it's correct. Steven
  11. Louie da fly
    So it's the millimetre rule you're working from? Not the series of vertical lines drawn on the background sheet? Steven
  12. Louie da fly
    That's a really nice jig, Dick. Simple and effective. As you're moving only one side of the jig and keeping the other side static, I take it you've arranged the graduated distances on the background to compensate for the lack of symmetry. Are the second two photos above identical ? I can't see the difference between them. Steven
  13. Louie da fly
    That's a good reason to go two-masted, Mark. Galleys in general are not too stable. I think sail would be preferable while journeying - assuming the wind was in the right direction, so the ship wouldn't heel over too much. Oars definitely under battle conditions - in fact the masts were lowered and stowed. For maneuvrability and also to remove overhead hazards. Steven
  14. Louie da fly
    Mark, the single mast cE is about 2.2 metres (7 feet) taller than the double - the difference between 9.4 and 7.2 metres above the bottom of the ship - about 30% higher. Don't know how much difference that would make. Steven
  15. Louie da fly
    Here are the sail plans I've arrived at - I still haven't decided to go one or two-masted, but both look better than previous versions. The dimensions no longer tie in with those of Age of the Dromon - I've decided that a gap of 200-300 years and different shipbuilding traditions, plus the different form of the two types of ship are enough to discount the Sicilian ships as a source of information. Instead, I'm going with size and placement of sail(s) to achieve the position of Centre of Effort needed to make a lateener sail properly, based on the theory outlined on the previous page of this build log. I've also made a prototype of the Byzantine mast step assembly shown in my reconstruction diagram above. I did this in a hurry and in a poor light, so it's a bit rough. To put in the model I'll do a better job and make it complete - cutting it to width and with side pieces to hold it on the keelson. But it seems to work! Steven
  16. Louie da fly
    Good point, Dick. I hadn't thought of that. Steven
  17. Louie da fly
    Makes sense, Dick. The narrowing of the hull gets greater in a nice smooth curve as you approach the bow and stern. Presumably the same with the rise of floors etc. Clever. Steven
  18. Louie da fly
    Oh yes, I knew what the words meant - just don't know the ins and outs of the technique. Steven
  19. Louie da fly
    That makes sense, though I thought it might also affect the performance of the sail (messes with the aerofoil shape). I expect in large, state-owned ships they'd have taken the trouble to move the end of the yard to the other side of the mast whenever they tacked, as shown in the diagrams on the first page of this thread. Sporting sailors probably don't have to worry about it so much because they don't use their boats much. However, the skipper of the caravel replica that sails around the coast in our region says he does it "the way the Arabs do" - without changing sides when he tacks. A lot less hassle, but it does have the downside of chafing. Steven
  20. Louie da fly
    Just learnt something. I'd thought than on all lateen sails the halyard attached to the centre of the yard. Certainly a lot of them seem to be this way in contemporary pictures, but if you look at the link http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?156203-Lateen you can see lateens with what I'd have thought was a very unbalanced set-up. Oh, and some nice footage of lateeners under sail. Having the mast to leeward of the sail (so it's blown against the mast) doesn't seem to be such a problem after all. A pity there isn't any footage of boats sailing under lateen alone, without headsails (or booms, as some modern so-called "lateens" are). Steven
  21. Louie da fly
    Very interesting, Carl. I haven't come across this one before. Certainly lateen rigged, and the "wings" at the stern are thought to hold a crosspiece which supports the yard when it's not in use. The hull is very unusual. I wonder where they got the design from? It doesn't look like anything I've seen in contemporary pictures. But there's plenty of stuff out there I've never seen. Steven
  22. Louie da fly
    Nice work, Goetzi. Coming together well. Yes, almost all the forecastles I've seen in contemporary representations from this period seem to come to a sharp point at the bow - at least the ones that can be seen, whether they be from the Mediterranean or northern Europe in the region including the Hanse ports. Steven
  23. Louie da fly
    I checked Age of the Dromon again - it does contain estimates of the yard lengths for the two lateen sails - 20.17 and 15.43 metres, based again on 75% of those of the Sicilian galleys. I tried these against the rough drawing of the ship, putting the Centre of Effort directly above the Centre of Lateral Resistance, [edit]while keeping the mast heights the same[/edit]. Note that the shape which produces the most power for a given length of yard is a 90-45-45 degree triangle, but these yards are at 32 and 37 degrees [edit] due to the height of the masts. Higher masts would enable a greater angle. [/edit] However, although modern lateeners certainly sail with the yard at 45 degrees they also quite commonly have the yard at a lower angle, so perhaps this is correct. (Note, by the way, that the above picture shows that the mariners haven't bothered to move the bottom end of the yard to the other side of the mast when they tacked - the sails are being blown against the masts). Certainly you come across a lot of renaissance pictures of lateen-rigged galleys with low angled yards - mostly furled . . . but sometimes also under sail. And the mediaeval pictures also often have yards at a lower angle than 45 degrees (see the posts above). So I'll go with this and see how it works. However, it occurs to me that the Sicilian galleys didn't have a forecastle or central castles as the dromon does, so I'd be justified in having higher masts, which could perhaps have the 90-45-45 triangle after all. I also worked up a drawing of the dromon with a single mast, showing the Centre of Effort directly above the Centre of Lateral Resistance. It looks good too, though the CE is considerably higher than on the two-masted version. [edit] The mast is higher on this one than the lengths shown in the book. [/edit] Steven
  24. Louie da fly
    As I have no idea of the mezza lune geometric technique, I can't really comment on the correctness of what you're doing, but it certainly looks good. I notice a very tight curve at bow and stern at what I take to be the level of the second wale. This looked a bit unusual to me, but having had a close look at a fairly large image of the painting your model is based on, it does have that tight curve, which is followed by the brackets supporting the sterncastle. Keep up the good work. As always, very instructive. Steven
  25. Louie da fly
    Thanks for all the "likes". Mark, Professor Pryor estimated the foremast would be 11.85 metres long, and the middle mast 8.4 metres - these being 75% of the sizes of the masts of the Sicilian galleys of the 13th century, as the dromon was about 75% of the length of these galleys. I'm currently working on diagrams for the sizes of sails to reach an aggregate of 100 square metres, while having the CE above or slightly forward of the CLR. I chose two configurations adding up to approx 100 square metres - one where the foresail is 12 metres long and the "middle" sail is 8 metres (corresponding to the relative sizes of the masts), and the other where the foresail is 11 metres and the middle sail 9 metres. Doesn't look quite right yet - I think the sails need to be bigger - which in turn raises the height of the CCE. On the other hand, these sails would probably only have been used if the wind was from directly aft, so the ship didn't lean more than the fatal 10 degrees. Still a work in progress. Steven

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