Morgan

Welcome aboard Martin, good to have another NE lad join. Gary - from sunny Hartlepool

The successive tiers of the galleries should noticeably decrease as they rise up the ship, the current interpretation loses this vital aesthetic feature with little differentiation between tiers, much to the ship’s detriment in my opinion. I would seriously consider using that return ticket to visit whilst she doesn’t have her skin on, it’s not often you get to see so much of the exposed framing close up. Also, the temporary support structures internally used to transfer the load whilst beams are removed are of interest in themselves. Collectively it’s not the kind of thing that will be seen again in our lifetimes (so says the nerdy structural engineering bit of me 🤓). Gary

I’m afraid what Victory has now is the abysmal 1980’s reconstruction, they have none of the elegance of Trafalgar, or even the 1920’s reconstruction. The image below is from Bugler’s 1966 as-reconstructed drawings. The current quarter galleries are slab sided in my view and far too upright. Heller have them correct. Gary

If you haven’t already done so it is worthwhile watching ‘The Model Shed’ 1/200 build on YouTube, there are a few pitfalls he picks up on that are worthwhile avoiding. Agree on the decking as well, I have the 1/200 Hood sat awaiting a new deck as the one I had from Pontos lifted, unfortunately I had smoothed / sanded off the planking so painting isn’t now an option. Gary

Positions 3 & 4 are in addition to 1 & 2, they were used to train or point the gun further around, the tackle being transferred from position 1 or 2 to facilitate this. This bit is from memory, I think they appeared at the back end of the 18th Century. Gary

Some interesting Market Data can be inferred from the assumption that Occre are approaching their ‘limited 1,000 sales’, and Artesania Latina seem to be hot on their heels, which shows the kit market to be buoyant. Pricing - with these both retailing for circa €1,400 / USD $1,700 / GBP £1,200 then price does not in general seem to be a barrier to sales. Albeit here in the UK with no suppliers to negate the import duty costs for the end consumer at present you can add 20% customs tax, which may be a reason for not seeing any UK builds as yet. Quality - Certainly the AL kit imitates much of John McKays Anatomy of the Ship, or possibly the Bugler works, these being largely indistinguishable from each other, however, having watched several of the build video’s both kits exhibit some really good aspects, and yet simultaneously are lacking in other areas and naïve in their execution. Their skeletal frame style is analogous to that which Chris Watton first piloted on his Bellona and Victory a decade ago, but not as refined, they both remain behind Vanguard Models, but they are moving forward. It seems to me that their main competition is with each other, and within that narrow market segment their offerings can be considered as ‘premium’. Scale - both are small scale by todays standards, with Syren at 1:48 and larger, Vanguard at 1:64, then models of 1:87 and 1:84 seem small in comparison. Also consider scale to price as a factor here, all of a sudden Vanguards Indefatigable and Syren’s Winchelsea are right in the competitive mix, especially given their qualitative edge (in my view). Of course, what you are able to do with your wooden behemoth if you ever complete it may outweigh pricing considerations. Product attraction - given the pricing point for these products coupled with the perception of them being ‘premium’ products then price is not an actual barrier, it is probably the individual subject (Victory) that in a large part sells itself, and for something perceived as new, then Occre and AL seem to have hit a sweet spot. Yet Amati reportedly shelved their 1:64 Victory for now as they perceive it only serving a predominantly UK focussed market, it shows how companies can have wildly varying views of that same market, for Amati the consequence seems to be that they missed the boat (sorry, ship). In general good news for the hobby, if Occre can generate something approaching €1.4m of sales in such a short space of time for a single kit then it shows demand is there to sustain the developers and manufacturers. Gary

Just to jump in. Artesania Latina have followed the John McKay HMS Victory Anatomy of the Ship, he uses a mix of scarph and chock joints at different cross sections along the hull, even on the same frames, but he uses scarphs only for the mid-section frames. I doubt McKay knew what was actually used as it is mostly covered up unless under reconstruction as she currently is, and there will be an element of conjecture. Having visited the ship several times during this period of reconstruction all frame joints that I have witnessed have been scarphed, albeit these are all above the waterline. Gary

Nice work. Watch out for the gunport and entry port frames, being around 1mm they are delicate and the ears that locate on to the dowels are easily snapped off! Fortunately they have plenty of other contact points. Gary

The 1805 edition is the same, and given these editions look backwards to recent / current practices it is probably reliable for Diana. Gary

Check out AL’s YouTube channel, there is an unboxing video and at last count 14 assembly tutorial videos, with more being added, it will give you a good idea of what you will get. Gary

At €1,299.99 AL need to push this through their local stockists outside the EU to keep the cost down. Here in the UK if we import from AL we will pay an extra 20% in customs duty (essentially VAT), plus customs fees from the courier. Could make it prohibitive for some who may otherwise be interested. Gary

So it’s another guessing game, I’ll play - HMS Victory 1:72 scale to compliment your cross section.

Looks the same as the pump configuration for L’Unite, see photo, upper or gun deck and lower or berth deck. Perhaps for expediency they just kept the same pumps. But if this is the fictional Surprise then I’m sure Chain Pumps are mentioned, or perhaps I’m just thinking of the film! Gary

Chris, I’d start a separate thread for this, you’re going to get inundated as all Aubrey fabs start dusting off their books and sift them for clues as to what she looked like according to O’Brian 😁 Gary

We have had a similar enquiry previously, several Trafalgar artists depict Victory with proto-fairleads at the break of the Poop. Unfortunately we arrived at no answer then, but what we can now perhaps say is that their function was military if the above was fitted when a cadet ship and not later as a merchantman. I’d love to see this solved. Below is an extract from Turners Trafalgar from the Victory’s Mizzenmast. Gary

My assumption would be that the ropes from the Capstan would run through the Top Tackle Scuttles up to the Main Yards for performing the heavy lifting operations. Not only boats, but serving the Main and Fore hatches moving loads such as guns, ships stores, as well as upper masting and yards. Gary

Welcome aboard Peter, just down the coast from you at Hartlepool. Has anyone in your group checked for the existence of ships records or logs that may still exist? The Carpenters logs and returns would be the most appropriate as they should record details of painting and consumables used. Probably a long shot but The National Archives and the National Maritime Museum are the best sources. Gary

There is circumstantial evidence that Victory carried crows feet at Trafalgar. The painter Clarkson Stanfield when preparing his ‘Trafalgar’ painting produced a first draft for comment. The commentators in question were Trafalgar veterans including Victory’s captain Hardy. This initial draught showed no crows feet, but the final version included them. This obvious change suggests that this was a correction made on input from those veterans and points to a strong possibility of Victory having them fitted at Trafalgar. Gary

Any chance of adding 1:72 to the boat line-up to compliment some of your legacy kits from your earlier career 😁 Gary

To add to Chris’s point, ships carrying less than 20 guns were ‘un-rated’ and not impacted by the guns -v- carronades -v- total ordnance argument that muddied the rated ship system delineations prior to a total ordnance rating system adopted in 1817. Gary

👂👂18th! care to drop any further hints 🫣

I’ll follow along, I’ve got this to start at some point and it’s useful to have more than just the YouTube videos to reference. Gary

Dimension ‘A’ in Post #2 or ‘step’ between the Wales and the planking above and below were not that great, they would only be one to two inches (25 - 50mm). On Victory the Black Strakes, those planks above the Main Wale were two inches thinner, as were the Diminishing Strakes, those below the Main Wale, and so on. The higher up the ship the less noticeable the change in thickness with the subsequent strakes and Wales. At a maximum of 50mm difference step change in planking in the scales we generally work at we are talking only 0.5 - 1mm difference, or Dimension ‘A’ in post #2 above. Gary

Incredible Orkney Shipwreck https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crg447y13nzo

You’ve mentioned before this is an itch you want to scratch, just go for it 😉 Gary