Chuck

Kurt, Dont be shy....my guess is you want a nice shiny new tugboat kit?  Again I am just guessing.   Please everyone.....just dont say its a great topic and you will be listening...or hit the like button....please lay it all out there.  The more that start to participate here, the more people will feel less shy about posting.   Dont be shy.    Who will get the conversation started?

I thought I would start this topic because as a model builder I know what I would like to see developed into a kit.   I am sure all of you have a short list.

 

On the flip side!!!

 

As a developer of commercial kits and projects,  I have no idea what-so-ever what other kit builders would like to see developed.   I am quite certain that this is true for the other kit developers.  Its just a leap of faith based on so many factors.   Including many who are respected sponsors of this site.   Both old and large companies or the newer, smaller Mom and Pop type operations.  We just dont know.  Its a big chance to take without a direct line of communication.

 

Bringing a new project to market is a serious investment in $$ and time.....our worst fears....nobody wants to build it or buy it when its launched.  So please....I urge you all to participate.  It would be a huge ....huge help.  No more Victories or Constitutions...its the last thing the hobby needs right????   Maybe not???  Please tell us.

 

BUT I would kindly ask that all MFG's including myself...and our sponsors...not participate in this discussion other than to say that you are watching and listening or if asked a direct question that warrants a response.  I know you will be listening, just as I am eager to hear from our customers.  This will alleviate any fear that we may be trying to steer the choices or monopolize the voice of all of you kit builders out there.  

 

SO...please do feel free to share your own short lists.  Or even just one.  Consider this your direct line to the kit developers out there.....I know I am listening.     The others would be at a loss if they dont.  Otherwise, we will just keep developing the same old stuff and hopefully one of them is what you want.

 

BUT here is what we need to know...or at least me as a developer.

 

- Name of ship .....or type

- Country of origin - date

- Material choices and what style...POB or POF or Solid hull ETC

- Price range you would expect to pay...whether realistic or not

-How long do you prefer a build to last from a kit.  Will you want to spend 6 months for a small kit or 6 years for that 100 gun French frigate from 1820?

-Advanced or beginner......something in-between? 

 

You get the picture....It would be interesting to see if we have any HMS Thunderer (74 gun) at 1/4" scale in POF built from Boxwood for under $200....If we hear a lot of that, then its probably time for me to look for a new job...LOL.  I learned as a young boy that if I didnt tell my parents what to get me for Christmas....I would end up with a lot of socks and underwear....LOL

 

 

and I will thank you on behalf of all of our fellow kit developers and MFGs.  This will make it so much easier for our businesses to grow and the hobby itself to grow.

 

Chuck

I thought I would start this topic because as a model builder I know what I would like to see developed into a kit.   I am sure all of you have a short list.

 

On the flip side!!!

 

As a developer of commercial kits and projects,  I have no idea what-so-ever what other kit builders would like to see developed.   I am quite certain that this is true for the other kit developers.  Its just a leap of faith based on so many factors.   Including many who are respected sponsors of this site.   Both old and large companies or the newer, smaller Mom and Pop type operations.  We just dont know.  Its a big chance to take without a direct line of communication.

 

Bringing a new project to market is a serious investment in $$ and time.....our worst fears....nobody wants to build it or buy it when its launched.  So please....I urge you all to participate.  It would be a huge ....huge help.  No more Victories or Constitutions...its the last thing the hobby needs right????   Maybe not???  Please tell us.

 

BUT I would kindly ask that all MFG's including myself...and our sponsors...not participate in this discussion other than to say that you are watching and listening or if asked a direct question that warrants a response.  I know you will be listening, just as I am eager to hear from our customers.  This will alleviate any fear that we may be trying to steer the choices or monopolize the voice of all of you kit builders out there.  

 

SO...please do feel free to share your own short lists.  Or even just one.  Consider this your direct line to the kit developers out there.....I know I am listening.     The others would be at a loss if they dont.  Otherwise, we will just keep developing the same old stuff and hopefully one of them is what you want.

 

BUT here is what we need to know...or at least me as a developer.

 

- Name of ship .....or type

- Country of origin - date

- Material choices and what style...POB or POF or Solid hull ETC

- Price range you would expect to pay...whether realistic or not

-How long do you prefer a build to last from a kit.  Will you want to spend 6 months for a small kit or 6 years for that 100 gun French frigate from 1820?

-Advanced or beginner......something in-between? 

 

You get the picture....It would be interesting to see if we have any HMS Thunderer (74 gun) at 1/4" scale in POF built from Boxwood for under $200....If we hear a lot of that, then its probably time for me to look for a new job...LOL.  I learned as a young boy that if I didnt tell my parents what to get me for Christmas....I would end up with a lot of socks and underwear....LOL

 

 

and I will thank you on behalf of all of our fellow kit developers and MFGs.  This will make it so much easier for our businesses to grow and the hobby itself to grow.

 

Chuck

I thought I would start this topic because as a model builder I know what I would like to see developed into a kit.   I am sure all of you have a short list.

 

On the flip side!!!

 

As a developer of commercial kits and projects,  I have no idea what-so-ever what other kit builders would like to see developed.   I am quite certain that this is true for the other kit developers.  Its just a leap of faith based on so many factors.   Including many who are respected sponsors of this site.   Both old and large companies or the newer, smaller Mom and Pop type operations.  We just dont know.  Its a big chance to take without a direct line of communication.

 

Bringing a new project to market is a serious investment in $$ and time.....our worst fears....nobody wants to build it or buy it when its launched.  So please....I urge you all to participate.  It would be a huge ....huge help.  No more Victories or Constitutions...its the last thing the hobby needs right????   Maybe not???  Please tell us.

 

BUT I would kindly ask that all MFG's including myself...and our sponsors...not participate in this discussion other than to say that you are watching and listening or if asked a direct question that warrants a response.  I know you will be listening, just as I am eager to hear from our customers.  This will alleviate any fear that we may be trying to steer the choices or monopolize the voice of all of you kit builders out there.  

 

SO...please do feel free to share your own short lists.  Or even just one.  Consider this your direct line to the kit developers out there.....I know I am listening.     The others would be at a loss if they dont.  Otherwise, we will just keep developing the same old stuff and hopefully one of them is what you want.

 

BUT here is what we need to know...or at least me as a developer.

 

- Name of ship .....or type

- Country of origin - date

- Material choices and what style...POB or POF or Solid hull ETC

- Price range you would expect to pay...whether realistic or not

-How long do you prefer a build to last from a kit.  Will you want to spend 6 months for a small kit or 6 years for that 100 gun French frigate from 1820?

-Advanced or beginner......something in-between? 

 

You get the picture....It would be interesting to see if we have any HMS Thunderer (74 gun) at 1/4" scale in POF built from Boxwood for under $200....If we hear a lot of that, then its probably time for me to look for a new job...LOL.  I learned as a young boy that if I didnt tell my parents what to get me for Christmas....I would end up with a lot of socks and underwear....LOL

 

 

and I will thank you on behalf of all of our fellow kit developers and MFGs.  This will make it so much easier for our businesses to grow and the hobby itself to grow.

 

Chuck

I think, as LA Don has said, that the transitional and early steam era is very interesting and would like to see some kits from that time.  Eighteenth century French and British warships are great, but there are plenty of those kits out there.
 
Name of ship .....or type
 
How about the Great Eastern, the steamship Arctic, the Civil War era double-enders like USS Sassacus?  How about some ships with paddlewheels or smokestacks and full sail rigs?  How about ships like the Dutch ram turret warship Schorpioen.  (There were a few US ships similar to Schorpioen...)
 
Country of origin - date:
 
I'm partial to American vessels, but that's not hard-and-fast.
 
Material choices and what style...POB or POF or Solid hull ETC:
 
Not a huge issue for me, but I like plank on bulkhead, wood construction.
 
Price range you would expect to pay...whether realistic or not:
 
I can swing $100 to $200 for a kit.
 
How long do you prefer a build to last from a kit.  Will you want to spend 6 months for a small kit or 6 years for that 100 gun French frigate from 1820?
 
I build slowly.  I see some complex kits -- like USS Syren, which I own -- as a Decade in a Box.  I'll get to it eventually, but it's going to be a while.  I prefer something that can be built in eighteen months to two years.
 
Advanced or beginner......something in-between?
 
Go ahead.  Make it advanced.  I'll figure it out.
 
 
 
 
Dan

I thought I would start this topic because as a model builder I know what I would like to see developed into a kit.   I am sure all of you have a short list.

 

On the flip side!!!

 

As a developer of commercial kits and projects,  I have no idea what-so-ever what other kit builders would like to see developed.   I am quite certain that this is true for the other kit developers.  Its just a leap of faith based on so many factors.   Including many who are respected sponsors of this site.   Both old and large companies or the newer, smaller Mom and Pop type operations.  We just dont know.  Its a big chance to take without a direct line of communication.

 

Bringing a new project to market is a serious investment in $$ and time.....our worst fears....nobody wants to build it or buy it when its launched.  So please....I urge you all to participate.  It would be a huge ....huge help.  No more Victories or Constitutions...its the last thing the hobby needs right????   Maybe not???  Please tell us.

 

BUT I would kindly ask that all MFG's including myself...and our sponsors...not participate in this discussion other than to say that you are watching and listening or if asked a direct question that warrants a response.  I know you will be listening, just as I am eager to hear from our customers.  This will alleviate any fear that we may be trying to steer the choices or monopolize the voice of all of you kit builders out there.  

 

SO...please do feel free to share your own short lists.  Or even just one.  Consider this your direct line to the kit developers out there.....I know I am listening.     The others would be at a loss if they dont.  Otherwise, we will just keep developing the same old stuff and hopefully one of them is what you want.

 

BUT here is what we need to know...or at least me as a developer.

 

- Name of ship .....or type

- Country of origin - date

- Material choices and what style...POB or POF or Solid hull ETC

- Price range you would expect to pay...whether realistic or not

-How long do you prefer a build to last from a kit.  Will you want to spend 6 months for a small kit or 6 years for that 100 gun French frigate from 1820?

-Advanced or beginner......something in-between? 

 

You get the picture....It would be interesting to see if we have any HMS Thunderer (74 gun) at 1/4" scale in POF built from Boxwood for under $200....If we hear a lot of that, then its probably time for me to look for a new job...LOL.  I learned as a young boy that if I didnt tell my parents what to get me for Christmas....I would end up with a lot of socks and underwear....LOL

 

 

and I will thank you on behalf of all of our fellow kit developers and MFGs.  This will make it so much easier for our businesses to grow and the hobby itself to grow.

 

Chuck

I thought I would start this topic because as a model builder I know what I would like to see developed into a kit.   I am sure all of you have a short list.

 

On the flip side!!!

 

As a developer of commercial kits and projects,  I have no idea what-so-ever what other kit builders would like to see developed.   I am quite certain that this is true for the other kit developers.  Its just a leap of faith based on so many factors.   Including many who are respected sponsors of this site.   Both old and large companies or the newer, smaller Mom and Pop type operations.  We just dont know.  Its a big chance to take without a direct line of communication.

 

Bringing a new project to market is a serious investment in $$ and time.....our worst fears....nobody wants to build it or buy it when its launched.  So please....I urge you all to participate.  It would be a huge ....huge help.  No more Victories or Constitutions...its the last thing the hobby needs right????   Maybe not???  Please tell us.

 

BUT I would kindly ask that all MFG's including myself...and our sponsors...not participate in this discussion other than to say that you are watching and listening or if asked a direct question that warrants a response.  I know you will be listening, just as I am eager to hear from our customers.  This will alleviate any fear that we may be trying to steer the choices or monopolize the voice of all of you kit builders out there.  

 

SO...please do feel free to share your own short lists.  Or even just one.  Consider this your direct line to the kit developers out there.....I know I am listening.     The others would be at a loss if they dont.  Otherwise, we will just keep developing the same old stuff and hopefully one of them is what you want.

 

BUT here is what we need to know...or at least me as a developer.

 

- Name of ship .....or type

- Country of origin - date

- Material choices and what style...POB or POF or Solid hull ETC

- Price range you would expect to pay...whether realistic or not

-How long do you prefer a build to last from a kit.  Will you want to spend 6 months for a small kit or 6 years for that 100 gun French frigate from 1820?

-Advanced or beginner......something in-between? 

 

You get the picture....It would be interesting to see if we have any HMS Thunderer (74 gun) at 1/4" scale in POF built from Boxwood for under $200....If we hear a lot of that, then its probably time for me to look for a new job...LOL.  I learned as a young boy that if I didnt tell my parents what to get me for Christmas....I would end up with a lot of socks and underwear....LOL

 

 

and I will thank you on behalf of all of our fellow kit developers and MFGs.  This will make it so much easier for our businesses to grow and the hobby itself to grow.

 

Chuck

Great topic.  As I visit the many websites of kit manufacturers and distributors I see an abundance of model of ships with sails.  I would like to see more kits of ships built after the golden age of sails.  The early steam ship era represents a large population of ships that would be interesting as models.  The first monitors, tugs, trawlers, riverboats, etc., would all be very interesting kits to build.
 
I am not a ship historian, but I think that the early steam era would provide some great models.

Chuck:
Great idea.  I will be following this with great interest.
Kurt

I thought I would start this topic because as a model builder I know what I would like to see developed into a kit.   I am sure all of you have a short list.

 

On the flip side!!!

 

As a developer of commercial kits and projects,  I have no idea what-so-ever what other kit builders would like to see developed.   I am quite certain that this is true for the other kit developers.  Its just a leap of faith based on so many factors.   Including many who are respected sponsors of this site.   Both old and large companies or the newer, smaller Mom and Pop type operations.  We just dont know.  Its a big chance to take without a direct line of communication.

 

Bringing a new project to market is a serious investment in $$ and time.....our worst fears....nobody wants to build it or buy it when its launched.  So please....I urge you all to participate.  It would be a huge ....huge help.  No more Victories or Constitutions...its the last thing the hobby needs right????   Maybe not???  Please tell us.

 

BUT I would kindly ask that all MFG's including myself...and our sponsors...not participate in this discussion other than to say that you are watching and listening or if asked a direct question that warrants a response.  I know you will be listening, just as I am eager to hear from our customers.  This will alleviate any fear that we may be trying to steer the choices or monopolize the voice of all of you kit builders out there.  

 

SO...please do feel free to share your own short lists.  Or even just one.  Consider this your direct line to the kit developers out there.....I know I am listening.     The others would be at a loss if they dont.  Otherwise, we will just keep developing the same old stuff and hopefully one of them is what you want.

 

BUT here is what we need to know...or at least me as a developer.

 

- Name of ship .....or type

- Country of origin - date

- Material choices and what style...POB or POF or Solid hull ETC

- Price range you would expect to pay...whether realistic or not

-How long do you prefer a build to last from a kit.  Will you want to spend 6 months for a small kit or 6 years for that 100 gun French frigate from 1820?

-Advanced or beginner......something in-between? 

 

You get the picture....It would be interesting to see if we have any HMS Thunderer (74 gun) at 1/4" scale in POF built from Boxwood for under $200....If we hear a lot of that, then its probably time for me to look for a new job...LOL.  I learned as a young boy that if I didnt tell my parents what to get me for Christmas....I would end up with a lot of socks and underwear....LOL

 

 

and I will thank you on behalf of all of our fellow kit developers and MFGs.  This will make it so much easier for our businesses to grow and the hobby itself to grow.

 

Chuck

No, that is project number two.....both are currently underway.....the Syren Factory is at full capacity!!!!
 
That is being worked on by Dan Pariser and will take this philosophy to the next level.....
 
You will lapstrake plank the entire hull for a Thames river skiff..1880...all planks are laser cut and pre-spiled....with etched reference lines and instruction.
 
You get the plug...actually laser cut parts....then you plank it like you would with a plug and remove the shell..then insert the frames inside afterwards.   Then there are all the little details.   So that project takes the learning experience even further.   Both are being worked on right now.  Its different than the barge as that kit has removable centers that become the frames...a slightly different concept.  But its all to teach a differnt method of clinker planking with hopefully very thorough instructions and lessons for doing it.  The model shown is Dan's and it is also made from Cherry and boxwood.  They actually make the real things out of cherry and still use these skiffs today.  
 
Dan will be starting a build log of this model as well once it gets further along.

Mike
 
 
I understand what you are saying....but rest assured ... this is most certainly an advanced kit.   Although the parts are all laser cut and the jigs and design concept will alleviate much trouble....the builder will need to proceed very slowly and with much care.  To explain a bit about my philosophy for kits.
 
- My goal is to design kits that wont look like kits when they are built.  The quality of the wood and the parts and the historical accuracy.  No ply for fittings...no metal castings....no skimping on the final visual product. To design them in such a way that folks can build them with the same few tools they would use to build any other kit straight of of the box.  Yet when its done, and placed right beside a scratch version of the same subject...most wouldnt be able to tell the difference.   The design I hope will inspire others to use the same concepts after finishing it to slowly cross over to scratch building.  Or adapt the concepts for other kits that are lacking.
 
-  For example...first I wanted to introduce a model that would serve as an introduction to clinker planking.  Not the whole hull...but just a few planks.  So builders might not be nervous about it.  It will  literally be a step by step intro lesson on clinker planking...how to bevel...what to bevel etc.  See below for the one plank
 

 
- second...this model will also serve as an intro to carving.  Yes there will be three small resin castings, but the majority of the carved scroll  work you see on the sides of the hull and transom will be carved by the builder.  These arent complex figureheads or difficult subjects to scare folks who never tried it.   Or never used boxwood.  You will get the piece laser cut from boxwood flat and ordinary... and you will learn some simple techniques to get started carving...with a few extra pieces just in case of a mishap.
 

 
How to secure the piece for carving,  how to use a stop cut,  how to shave and carve with simple tools....how to undercut areas etc.  Step by step.  Nothing to fancy and elaborate...no expensive tools...just giving it a try with a little help.  At least the way I have always done it...I am sure that others will have a better way but this will show how I do it.  These are the two main features that are the focus for me on this project as well as creating a way to frame the boat properly with floors and futtocks like the contemporary model.  And NO...the carvings wont be that small.  It fits on a dime because I was just testing my laser cutter to see how hard I could push it....how small can laser cut something intricate and still capture some detail.   That is pretty dang small.   The real thing is about six times larger.
 
- So for me...designing this kit was a way to introduce a few things that are lacking with most kits....mainly they all look like kits unless you do some serious bashing with no guidance to go with it.  Why not start out with great materials....and guide the builders through it as if it was stepping stone to scratch building.  
 
Having said that...
 
The jigs and laser cut parts I provide are something I would normally make for myself if  I were building this from scratch...by giving them to a builder who might not have the tools or experience to create them,  they will at least get a chance to see a pre-spiled plank so they can understand and can visualize why using a straight strip isnt going to work.  They will see the spiled shape and think....this is nuts.....then after they place it on the hull without any difficulty, hopefully a light bulb will go off.   Then MAYBE they can apply what they have learned and experienced with this kit on the many other kits they build...or scratch projects.  Its hard to explain but I hope it makes sense.   
 
It wont be a beginner kit.  It will be an advanced kit FOR intermediate builders looking to try something they havent done before.  Now I keep showing the same image of the same contemporary model.  It wont look exactly like this one...but its close.   It will actually look a lot more like the one pictured below except for the transom carving.  I am referring to the colors and the lack of carving inside....just bare panels.  This is remember just an intro to carving.  Note how the planks are fastened....not treenailed....they are nailed.  Nailed to the plank beneath it.  Just something new to learn and I am learning right along with it.  And yes it will be a challenge.
 

 
 
 
 
 
Chuck

Thank you all for the well wishes and questions  
 
Just to answer a few questions I have received about this Royal Barge.
 
-  It is circa 1700 - Queen Anne Style Royal Barge
 
- It WILL be a full Kit and not a scratch/with some laser cut parts.  My first full kit with everything all included.   
 
- It is 1:24 scale and will be about 20" long.  
 
-The stock kit will be made in Cherry with boxwood carvings and trim in place of gilding.  A boxwood or Pear upgrade version will also be made available as special order.  But the cherry will look great and be far less expensive.  I am using prime pieces that are "cherry-picked" for a lighter tone.  Examine the image below and look at how much waste wood there would be on each frame if Boxwood or pear was used...each kit in those woods will be considerably more expensive and mostly used up for the frame centers.   So consider this if you intend to order a custom cut version in Box or Pear. 
 
- The build board....for lack of a better word is included.  Its a design choice to replace of all of those pesky wood strips people glue across the frames for the longboat and pinnace to stabalize it for fairing and planking.  I have learned a lot watching all of you build those. This replaces the need for those and provides a sturdy base to Clinker plank....only three strakes will be on each kit to mirror the contemporary examples we are all familiar with.  They will be pre-spiled and laser cut to make it easier.
 
- The vertical lines shown on frames "10" and "J" in the previous post are there as a visual reference.  They are there so when you place the keel assembly on top of the frames.... you can eyeball the hull from dead astern and at the bow to make sure its straight and not tilted one way or the other.  Its a slightly different build concept than placing the frames into the keel slots first like the longboat.   The build-board lines them all up so you dont have to fight with trying to get them all centered and perpendicular....those that built the pinnace and longboat know what I am referencing.  It was a pain to do well and there are many many more frames in this kit.  It has proven more effective to place the keel onto the frames afterwards.....  
 
-  I dont have any idea of price yet because its too soon in the prototype process to tell.  
 
Thanks for the interest and its OK to ask the questions in this topic....I am sure many others have the same questions and its easier to answer them once here.  
 
Thanks again
 
Chuck
 

I thought I would give a little status update on this side project.   As some of you know I am working on two new complete kits for Syren...
 
One is of a 1/2" scale Royal navy barge circa 1700.  I am trying to push the envelope a bit with my design concepts and the laser cutter.   It will look like the contemporary model below but actually be almost exactly like the Queen Anne style barge shown in the Kriegstein collection.  Those that have the Seawatch book should check it out.  This will be a fully framed little model and I am very excited about it.  I am building off of the design concept I used for the long boat and pinnace but taking it a bit farther.  I hope these photos will give you a sufficient idea about the scope/concept of the project.  This is a big barge model at over 20" long.
 
I am fortunate to have found someone who is an excellent model builder who will build the prototype for me as it is designed.   Unfortunately there is just not enough time in the day for me to build everything I design.  He will be starting a build log shortly as I get a little further with the design.   Many of you know him and will enjoy his build log as you have enjoyed his others.  This project is a long, long way from being released but I thought I would show you what we are working on in addition to the many other projects.  It also shows you how Syren will bring new projects to market without having to wait for me to build the entire model.   I will be concentrating on finishing the Cheerful and then continuing with the Winchelsea.   At the same time I will be collaborating with others to bring you folks additional stuff!!! 
 
There are no deadlines for these projects...they will get done when they get done.  It is more important that these projects are the best possible within my limits of experience and expertise and they will never be rushed to market.   I will however keep you guys updated.   The last thing the hobby needs are more sub-par ship model projects and kits.  I apologize for the longer development times compared to others.  I hope its not too frustrating.
 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chuck, I really like the look of your latest offering.  this will be a very nice addition to the 19th century longboat.  Add mee to your furture sales list please.
 
cheers
 
Pat

Chuck you have a way of making people think differently. I know I am going to struggle following your ideas ( I am already exercised by Cheerful! ) but they will be interesting and educational struggles.
 
Good on you!
 
Mike.

No, that is project number two.....both are currently underway.....the Syren Factory is at full capacity!!!!
 
That is being worked on by Dan Pariser and will take this philosophy to the next level.....
 
You will lapstrake plank the entire hull for a Thames river skiff..1880...all planks are laser cut and pre-spiled....with etched reference lines and instruction.
 
You get the plug...actually laser cut parts....then you plank it like you would with a plug and remove the shell..then insert the frames inside afterwards.   Then there are all the little details.   So that project takes the learning experience even further.   Both are being worked on right now.  Its different than the barge as that kit has removable centers that become the frames...a slightly different concept.  But its all to teach a differnt method of clinker planking with hopefully very thorough instructions and lessons for doing it.  The model shown is Dan's and it is also made from Cherry and boxwood.  They actually make the real things out of cherry and still use these skiffs today.  
 
Dan will be starting a build log of this model as well once it gets further along.

Mike
 
 
I understand what you are saying....but rest assured ... this is most certainly an advanced kit.   Although the parts are all laser cut and the jigs and design concept will alleviate much trouble....the builder will need to proceed very slowly and with much care.  To explain a bit about my philosophy for kits.
 
- My goal is to design kits that wont look like kits when they are built.  The quality of the wood and the parts and the historical accuracy.  No ply for fittings...no metal castings....no skimping on the final visual product. To design them in such a way that folks can build them with the same few tools they would use to build any other kit straight of of the box.  Yet when its done, and placed right beside a scratch version of the same subject...most wouldnt be able to tell the difference.   The design I hope will inspire others to use the same concepts after finishing it to slowly cross over to scratch building.  Or adapt the concepts for other kits that are lacking.
 
-  For example...first I wanted to introduce a model that would serve as an introduction to clinker planking.  Not the whole hull...but just a few planks.  So builders might not be nervous about it.  It will  literally be a step by step intro lesson on clinker planking...how to bevel...what to bevel etc.  See below for the one plank
 

 
- second...this model will also serve as an intro to carving.  Yes there will be three small resin castings, but the majority of the carved scroll  work you see on the sides of the hull and transom will be carved by the builder.  These arent complex figureheads or difficult subjects to scare folks who never tried it.   Or never used boxwood.  You will get the piece laser cut from boxwood flat and ordinary... and you will learn some simple techniques to get started carving...with a few extra pieces just in case of a mishap.
 

 
How to secure the piece for carving,  how to use a stop cut,  how to shave and carve with simple tools....how to undercut areas etc.  Step by step.  Nothing to fancy and elaborate...no expensive tools...just giving it a try with a little help.  At least the way I have always done it...I am sure that others will have a better way but this will show how I do it.  These are the two main features that are the focus for me on this project as well as creating a way to frame the boat properly with floors and futtocks like the contemporary model.  And NO...the carvings wont be that small.  It fits on a dime because I was just testing my laser cutter to see how hard I could push it....how small can laser cut something intricate and still capture some detail.   That is pretty dang small.   The real thing is about six times larger.
 
- So for me...designing this kit was a way to introduce a few things that are lacking with most kits....mainly they all look like kits unless you do some serious bashing with no guidance to go with it.  Why not start out with great materials....and guide the builders through it as if it was stepping stone to scratch building.  
 
Having said that...
 
The jigs and laser cut parts I provide are something I would normally make for myself if  I were building this from scratch...by giving them to a builder who might not have the tools or experience to create them,  they will at least get a chance to see a pre-spiled plank so they can understand and can visualize why using a straight strip isnt going to work.  They will see the spiled shape and think....this is nuts.....then after they place it on the hull without any difficulty, hopefully a light bulb will go off.   Then MAYBE they can apply what they have learned and experienced with this kit on the many other kits they build...or scratch projects.  Its hard to explain but I hope it makes sense.   
 
It wont be a beginner kit.  It will be an advanced kit FOR intermediate builders looking to try something they havent done before.  Now I keep showing the same image of the same contemporary model.  It wont look exactly like this one...but its close.   It will actually look a lot more like the one pictured below except for the transom carving.  I am referring to the colors and the lack of carving inside....just bare panels.  This is remember just an intro to carving.  Note how the planks are fastened....not treenailed....they are nailed.  Nailed to the plank beneath it.  Just something new to learn and I am learning right along with it.  And yes it will be a challenge.
 

 
 
 
 
 
Chuck

Thank you all for the well wishes and questions  
 
Just to answer a few questions I have received about this Royal Barge.
 
-  It is circa 1700 - Queen Anne Style Royal Barge
 
- It WILL be a full Kit and not a scratch/with some laser cut parts.  My first full kit with everything all included.   
 
- It is 1:24 scale and will be about 20" long.  
 
-The stock kit will be made in Cherry with boxwood carvings and trim in place of gilding.  A boxwood or Pear upgrade version will also be made available as special order.  But the cherry will look great and be far less expensive.  I am using prime pieces that are "cherry-picked" for a lighter tone.  Examine the image below and look at how much waste wood there would be on each frame if Boxwood or pear was used...each kit in those woods will be considerably more expensive and mostly used up for the frame centers.   So consider this if you intend to order a custom cut version in Box or Pear. 
 
- The build board....for lack of a better word is included.  Its a design choice to replace of all of those pesky wood strips people glue across the frames for the longboat and pinnace to stabalize it for fairing and planking.  I have learned a lot watching all of you build those. This replaces the need for those and provides a sturdy base to Clinker plank....only three strakes will be on each kit to mirror the contemporary examples we are all familiar with.  They will be pre-spiled and laser cut to make it easier.
 
- The vertical lines shown on frames "10" and "J" in the previous post are there as a visual reference.  They are there so when you place the keel assembly on top of the frames.... you can eyeball the hull from dead astern and at the bow to make sure its straight and not tilted one way or the other.  Its a slightly different build concept than placing the frames into the keel slots first like the longboat.   The build-board lines them all up so you dont have to fight with trying to get them all centered and perpendicular....those that built the pinnace and longboat know what I am referencing.  It was a pain to do well and there are many many more frames in this kit.  It has proven more effective to place the keel onto the frames afterwards.....  
 
-  I dont have any idea of price yet because its too soon in the prototype process to tell.  
 
Thanks for the interest and its OK to ask the questions in this topic....I am sure many others have the same questions and its easier to answer them once here.  
 
Thanks again
 
Chuck
 

I thought I would give a little status update on this side project.   As some of you know I am working on two new complete kits for Syren...
 
One is of a 1/2" scale Royal navy barge circa 1700.  I am trying to push the envelope a bit with my design concepts and the laser cutter.   It will look like the contemporary model below but actually be almost exactly like the Queen Anne style barge shown in the Kriegstein collection.  Those that have the Seawatch book should check it out.  This will be a fully framed little model and I am very excited about it.  I am building off of the design concept I used for the long boat and pinnace but taking it a bit farther.  I hope these photos will give you a sufficient idea about the scope/concept of the project.  This is a big barge model at over 20" long.
 
I am fortunate to have found someone who is an excellent model builder who will build the prototype for me as it is designed.   Unfortunately there is just not enough time in the day for me to build everything I design.  He will be starting a build log shortly as I get a little further with the design.   Many of you know him and will enjoy his build log as you have enjoyed his others.  This project is a long, long way from being released but I thought I would show you what we are working on in addition to the many other projects.  It also shows you how Syren will bring new projects to market without having to wait for me to build the entire model.   I will be concentrating on finishing the Cheerful and then continuing with the Winchelsea.   At the same time I will be collaborating with others to bring you folks additional stuff!!! 
 
There are no deadlines for these projects...they will get done when they get done.  It is more important that these projects are the best possible within my limits of experience and expertise and they will never be rushed to market.   I will however keep you guys updated.   The last thing the hobby needs are more sub-par ship model projects and kits.  I apologize for the longer development times compared to others.  I hope its not too frustrating.
 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mike
 
 
I understand what you are saying....but rest assured ... this is most certainly an advanced kit.   Although the parts are all laser cut and the jigs and design concept will alleviate much trouble....the builder will need to proceed very slowly and with much care.  To explain a bit about my philosophy for kits.
 
- My goal is to design kits that wont look like kits when they are built.  The quality of the wood and the parts and the historical accuracy.  No ply for fittings...no metal castings....no skimping on the final visual product. To design them in such a way that folks can build them with the same few tools they would use to build any other kit straight of of the box.  Yet when its done, and placed right beside a scratch version of the same subject...most wouldnt be able to tell the difference.   The design I hope will inspire others to use the same concepts after finishing it to slowly cross over to scratch building.  Or adapt the concepts for other kits that are lacking.
 
-  For example...first I wanted to introduce a model that would serve as an introduction to clinker planking.  Not the whole hull...but just a few planks.  So builders might not be nervous about it.  It will  literally be a step by step intro lesson on clinker planking...how to bevel...what to bevel etc.  See below for the one plank
 

 
- second...this model will also serve as an intro to carving.  Yes there will be three small resin castings, but the majority of the carved scroll  work you see on the sides of the hull and transom will be carved by the builder.  These arent complex figureheads or difficult subjects to scare folks who never tried it.   Or never used boxwood.  You will get the piece laser cut from boxwood flat and ordinary... and you will learn some simple techniques to get started carving...with a few extra pieces just in case of a mishap.
 

 
How to secure the piece for carving,  how to use a stop cut,  how to shave and carve with simple tools....how to undercut areas etc.  Step by step.  Nothing to fancy and elaborate...no expensive tools...just giving it a try with a little help.  At least the way I have always done it...I am sure that others will have a better way but this will show how I do it.  These are the two main features that are the focus for me on this project as well as creating a way to frame the boat properly with floors and futtocks like the contemporary model.  And NO...the carvings wont be that small.  It fits on a dime because I was just testing my laser cutter to see how hard I could push it....how small can laser cut something intricate and still capture some detail.   That is pretty dang small.   The real thing is about six times larger.
 
- So for me...designing this kit was a way to introduce a few things that are lacking with most kits....mainly they all look like kits unless you do some serious bashing with no guidance to go with it.  Why not start out with great materials....and guide the builders through it as if it was stepping stone to scratch building.  
 
Having said that...
 
The jigs and laser cut parts I provide are something I would normally make for myself if  I were building this from scratch...by giving them to a builder who might not have the tools or experience to create them,  they will at least get a chance to see a pre-spiled plank so they can understand and can visualize why using a straight strip isnt going to work.  They will see the spiled shape and think....this is nuts.....then after they place it on the hull without any difficulty, hopefully a light bulb will go off.   Then MAYBE they can apply what they have learned and experienced with this kit on the many other kits they build...or scratch projects.  Its hard to explain but I hope it makes sense.   
 
It wont be a beginner kit.  It will be an advanced kit FOR intermediate builders looking to try something they havent done before.  Now I keep showing the same image of the same contemporary model.  It wont look exactly like this one...but its close.   It will actually look a lot more like the one pictured below except for the transom carving.  I am referring to the colors and the lack of carving inside....just bare panels.  This is remember just an intro to carving.  Note how the planks are fastened....not treenailed....they are nailed.  Nailed to the plank beneath it.  Just something new to learn and I am learning right along with it.  And yes it will be a challenge.
 

 
 
 
 
 
Chuck

No, that is project number two.....both are currently underway.....the Syren Factory is at full capacity!!!!
 
That is being worked on by Dan Pariser and will take this philosophy to the next level.....
 
You will lapstrake plank the entire hull for a Thames river skiff..1880...all planks are laser cut and pre-spiled....with etched reference lines and instruction.
 
You get the plug...actually laser cut parts....then you plank it like you would with a plug and remove the shell..then insert the frames inside afterwards.   Then there are all the little details.   So that project takes the learning experience even further.   Both are being worked on right now.  Its different than the barge as that kit has removable centers that become the frames...a slightly different concept.  But its all to teach a differnt method of clinker planking with hopefully very thorough instructions and lessons for doing it.  The model shown is Dan's and it is also made from Cherry and boxwood.  They actually make the real things out of cherry and still use these skiffs today.  
 
Dan will be starting a build log of this model as well once it gets further along.

Mike
 
 
I understand what you are saying....but rest assured ... this is most certainly an advanced kit.   Although the parts are all laser cut and the jigs and design concept will alleviate much trouble....the builder will need to proceed very slowly and with much care.  To explain a bit about my philosophy for kits.
 
- My goal is to design kits that wont look like kits when they are built.  The quality of the wood and the parts and the historical accuracy.  No ply for fittings...no metal castings....no skimping on the final visual product. To design them in such a way that folks can build them with the same few tools they would use to build any other kit straight of of the box.  Yet when its done, and placed right beside a scratch version of the same subject...most wouldnt be able to tell the difference.   The design I hope will inspire others to use the same concepts after finishing it to slowly cross over to scratch building.  Or adapt the concepts for other kits that are lacking.
 
-  For example...first I wanted to introduce a model that would serve as an introduction to clinker planking.  Not the whole hull...but just a few planks.  So builders might not be nervous about it.  It will  literally be a step by step intro lesson on clinker planking...how to bevel...what to bevel etc.  See below for the one plank
 

 
- second...this model will also serve as an intro to carving.  Yes there will be three small resin castings, but the majority of the carved scroll  work you see on the sides of the hull and transom will be carved by the builder.  These arent complex figureheads or difficult subjects to scare folks who never tried it.   Or never used boxwood.  You will get the piece laser cut from boxwood flat and ordinary... and you will learn some simple techniques to get started carving...with a few extra pieces just in case of a mishap.
 

 
How to secure the piece for carving,  how to use a stop cut,  how to shave and carve with simple tools....how to undercut areas etc.  Step by step.  Nothing to fancy and elaborate...no expensive tools...just giving it a try with a little help.  At least the way I have always done it...I am sure that others will have a better way but this will show how I do it.  These are the two main features that are the focus for me on this project as well as creating a way to frame the boat properly with floors and futtocks like the contemporary model.  And NO...the carvings wont be that small.  It fits on a dime because I was just testing my laser cutter to see how hard I could push it....how small can laser cut something intricate and still capture some detail.   That is pretty dang small.   The real thing is about six times larger.
 
- So for me...designing this kit was a way to introduce a few things that are lacking with most kits....mainly they all look like kits unless you do some serious bashing with no guidance to go with it.  Why not start out with great materials....and guide the builders through it as if it was stepping stone to scratch building.  
 
Having said that...
 
The jigs and laser cut parts I provide are something I would normally make for myself if  I were building this from scratch...by giving them to a builder who might not have the tools or experience to create them,  they will at least get a chance to see a pre-spiled plank so they can understand and can visualize why using a straight strip isnt going to work.  They will see the spiled shape and think....this is nuts.....then after they place it on the hull without any difficulty, hopefully a light bulb will go off.   Then MAYBE they can apply what they have learned and experienced with this kit on the many other kits they build...or scratch projects.  Its hard to explain but I hope it makes sense.   
 
It wont be a beginner kit.  It will be an advanced kit FOR intermediate builders looking to try something they havent done before.  Now I keep showing the same image of the same contemporary model.  It wont look exactly like this one...but its close.   It will actually look a lot more like the one pictured below except for the transom carving.  I am referring to the colors and the lack of carving inside....just bare panels.  This is remember just an intro to carving.  Note how the planks are fastened....not treenailed....they are nailed.  Nailed to the plank beneath it.  Just something new to learn and I am learning right along with it.  And yes it will be a challenge.
 

 
 
 
 
 
Chuck

No, that is project number two.....both are currently underway.....the Syren Factory is at full capacity!!!!
 
That is being worked on by Dan Pariser and will take this philosophy to the next level.....
 
You will lapstrake plank the entire hull for a Thames river skiff..1880...all planks are laser cut and pre-spiled....with etched reference lines and instruction.
 
You get the plug...actually laser cut parts....then you plank it like you would with a plug and remove the shell..then insert the frames inside afterwards.   Then there are all the little details.   So that project takes the learning experience even further.   Both are being worked on right now.  Its different than the barge as that kit has removable centers that become the frames...a slightly different concept.  But its all to teach a differnt method of clinker planking with hopefully very thorough instructions and lessons for doing it.  The model shown is Dan's and it is also made from Cherry and boxwood.  They actually make the real things out of cherry and still use these skiffs today.  
 
Dan will be starting a build log of this model as well once it gets further along.

Mike
 
 
I understand what you are saying....but rest assured ... this is most certainly an advanced kit.   Although the parts are all laser cut and the jigs and design concept will alleviate much trouble....the builder will need to proceed very slowly and with much care.  To explain a bit about my philosophy for kits.
 
- My goal is to design kits that wont look like kits when they are built.  The quality of the wood and the parts and the historical accuracy.  No ply for fittings...no metal castings....no skimping on the final visual product. To design them in such a way that folks can build them with the same few tools they would use to build any other kit straight of of the box.  Yet when its done, and placed right beside a scratch version of the same subject...most wouldnt be able to tell the difference.   The design I hope will inspire others to use the same concepts after finishing it to slowly cross over to scratch building.  Or adapt the concepts for other kits that are lacking.
 
-  For example...first I wanted to introduce a model that would serve as an introduction to clinker planking.  Not the whole hull...but just a few planks.  So builders might not be nervous about it.  It will  literally be a step by step intro lesson on clinker planking...how to bevel...what to bevel etc.  See below for the one plank
 

 
- second...this model will also serve as an intro to carving.  Yes there will be three small resin castings, but the majority of the carved scroll  work you see on the sides of the hull and transom will be carved by the builder.  These arent complex figureheads or difficult subjects to scare folks who never tried it.   Or never used boxwood.  You will get the piece laser cut from boxwood flat and ordinary... and you will learn some simple techniques to get started carving...with a few extra pieces just in case of a mishap.
 

 
How to secure the piece for carving,  how to use a stop cut,  how to shave and carve with simple tools....how to undercut areas etc.  Step by step.  Nothing to fancy and elaborate...no expensive tools...just giving it a try with a little help.  At least the way I have always done it...I am sure that others will have a better way but this will show how I do it.  These are the two main features that are the focus for me on this project as well as creating a way to frame the boat properly with floors and futtocks like the contemporary model.  And NO...the carvings wont be that small.  It fits on a dime because I was just testing my laser cutter to see how hard I could push it....how small can laser cut something intricate and still capture some detail.   That is pretty dang small.   The real thing is about six times larger.
 
- So for me...designing this kit was a way to introduce a few things that are lacking with most kits....mainly they all look like kits unless you do some serious bashing with no guidance to go with it.  Why not start out with great materials....and guide the builders through it as if it was stepping stone to scratch building.  
 
Having said that...
 
The jigs and laser cut parts I provide are something I would normally make for myself if  I were building this from scratch...by giving them to a builder who might not have the tools or experience to create them,  they will at least get a chance to see a pre-spiled plank so they can understand and can visualize why using a straight strip isnt going to work.  They will see the spiled shape and think....this is nuts.....then after they place it on the hull without any difficulty, hopefully a light bulb will go off.   Then MAYBE they can apply what they have learned and experienced with this kit on the many other kits they build...or scratch projects.  Its hard to explain but I hope it makes sense.   
 
It wont be a beginner kit.  It will be an advanced kit FOR intermediate builders looking to try something they havent done before.  Now I keep showing the same image of the same contemporary model.  It wont look exactly like this one...but its close.   It will actually look a lot more like the one pictured below except for the transom carving.  I am referring to the colors and the lack of carving inside....just bare panels.  This is remember just an intro to carving.  Note how the planks are fastened....not treenailed....they are nailed.  Nailed to the plank beneath it.  Just something new to learn and I am learning right along with it.  And yes it will be a challenge.
 

 
 
 
 
 
Chuck