Kopape

After a long time, I can add a small shift. Not much time over the summer - my son is building a house and there is more than enough to do around here.
Last time I wrote that I was going to start the second layer of planking.So I measured the hull and found that it is wider at the deck. The mistake was made during the laser burning, when I didn't measure the finished ribs.
So I had to remove some of the planking, sand the ribs and re-plank them. Unfortunately the hull didn't stay as smooth, I had to resort to caulking. On the other hand, the hull now fits dimensionally with the plans.
While I was finishing the fuselage, I also made the base for the gunwale.

I wanted to continue with the shooting frame and here I ran into a problem with the execution.
Batavia - there is one extra recess compared to the Province. Red arrows.
Province - the bottom edge is angled away from the ship. Orange arrow.
So I don't know what to do about the gunnery. Was there a difference between a warship and a merchant ship? Or just between shipbuilders?

And I guess I'd go straight to Ab Hoving with the next problem - the statues that are visible in the deck cut are unfortunately nowhere on the side plan. And when I looked at the 3D model online, they're not there at all. So question - were they just built with the underside against the wall ? Or were they more recessed ? Red rectangle.

Thank you in advance for all the information on loopholes.

                                                                                                                                                                                         Petr

I already knew that your son could do it from the pictures in your book. But what got me was turning the pinas into a warship.
Absolutely brilliant idea to publish this. Thank you.

So thank you very much for such comprehensive answers and knowledge.
And I wish you a successful completion.😉
                                                                          Peter

Thank you very much for the explanation.
Just one more question - if I was making a model of a war frigate ( For example: Berlin 1674, Papegojan 1627 )
I guess it wouldn't be wrong if it had no foredeck ?

Waldemar, thank you very much for the images.
But it does make me ask a question - one that I don't think anyone can answer exactly.
When was the deck there and when was it not? Or when was it removed?
Is it the builder's fault? Was it a fad ? Or was it forced by circumstances ?

                                                                                                                           Petr

Waldemar, absolutely amazing work !!!
When I was searching for a more authentic depiction of a Dutch frigate, I came across one thing - some designs were missing the fore deck ( like the Vasa ). But it was not the basis on which I could historically rely.
So I ask - is the missing deck according to the Vasa, or did you draw from somewhere else?

                                                                                                             Petr

28 minutes ago, Ab Hoving said:

Sorry for the confusion.

You've got nothing to apologize for.

And the bulkheads ( green in the picture ) and ornaments ( yellow ) but I guess they were colored?

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If you find any mistake, feel free to let me know.

I had the plans scanned and then enlarged. All at once. I should have cut them up and then enlarged them. I think that's where I made a mistake.

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I don't think I understand your problems: painted on the inside?.

By colour, I mean the planks - red, yellow, on the sides.

10 minutes ago, Ab Hoving said:

I suppose you will add a second layer of planking

Of course. Below the waterline will be a lime tree, above will be a pear tree.

13 minutes ago, Ab Hoving said:

Try to find the correct position of the wales and fill in the rest of the planking.

Yes, that's the plan. I'll just have a few questions about the wales afterwards, but when it's their turn.😉

As I looked, it's been 10 months since my last post. It's time to add something.

After studying the 3D model, I was very surprised to see that the fuselage is painted on the inside. The original idea - to trim 1mm, then the other 1mm, remove the ribs from the inside and sand the fuselage was not applicable. I came up with this idea: I removed part of the ribs above the deck, which will be replaced with new ones. These will be 0.5mm wider on each side to make room for the inner painted planking. So instead of 2 x 1mm, the hull above the deck will be planked with 2 x 0.5mm and 1 x 1mm.

Unfortunately, after building the skeleton, I found that when I enlarged the plans, there was a deviation of 4 percent at the stern. I had to sit down at the PC and tweak all parts of the drawings to be the same. This unfortunately delayed me more than I would have liked. And of course I had to redo the stern.

After comparing the ribs, I started on the planking. I reinforced the inside of the fuselage with epoxy and Perlane. ( My wife uses it to make the pattern ).

I finished the 1mm planking below the bottom edge of the deck and continued with 0.5mm.

I then glued a section of ribs 1mm wider and finished the whole hull above the deck with 0.5mm.

I then trimmed the hull to shape. The work of flattening the ribs paid off - in two hours the hull was polished and I didn't even have to trim it.

Now I'm preparing for the second planking below the waterline.
 Here I was looking at the plans, the waterline is not parallel to the keel. It's getting smaller in the front. Does this mean the ship had more submergence aft when sailing ?
And when I sketched the keel - on the pinnac it's made up of three parts. How was it folded on the smaller boats? According to the length of the vessel ? On a yacht, one piece, on a frigat, a fluit, two?

Dne 10/7/2021 v 8:32, Ab Hoving řekl:

I almost started to believe you gave up on this one, which would be a pity, because it's a beautiful ship.

Hello Ab,
there's no reason to give up - we're at the beginning. I'm a rather slow modeller due to time and this summer has been bad for modelling for me, and this year extremely so. But it's already over.

Congratulations on the acceptance of the models into the museum. But I'm not sure I would have the heart to get rid of so many models and not have them at home. I'd probably miss them.

Dne 10/7/2021 v 8:32, Ab Hoving řekl:

Why do you call it 'pinasa'? Is that plural in  your country?

Yes, that's right, but from now on I'll write pinas.

About the colours - I guess I know they can't be bright and should probably be more dark, right ? Could they be chosen from a colour swatch from Humbrol for example ?

Hello, Marcus,
the fact that Ab Hoving agreed to advise me, was the reason I started this thread. It's not to show off - I'm not that handy for that, but rather to discuss more information about Dutch ships of the 17th century. Therefore, anyone who has a question about these ships, no problem posting here.
To confess, I have already - thanks to his patience - worked with Ab on modifications to a previous model. And his advice and comments were absolutely amazing.

                                                                                                                                                               Petr

Summer is over and it's finally time to get back to the models.  
Finally I could start at least some minor preparatory work. Some of the ribs needed to be trimmed to make a smooth planking line.
I glued up the skeleton and all but the stern is ready for planking.

I didn't have time to model over the summer, so I at least occasionally looked at the 3D model to get some understanding of the design.
And this is where I found out that I would need some advice from Ab Hoving.

So, for starters:
1, Was the colour the same throughout the boat - e.g. yellow ? That's for the inside of the boat and the ornaments.
2, On the 3D model the upper part of the stern is finished differently than on the plans - so what is correct ?
3, There are 6 guns in the plans but I have no idea which ones go where.
4, Was this finishing of the planking up to the rudder only used on the Pinasa or was it used on all Dutch ships ? For example, the Fregat ?

Thanks to Ab for all the links and explanations.

As I looked at the plans, I know I will need a lot of advice.

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Call it 'developing understanding' over a period of 30 years.

Hm, my annual watching can't be compared to this.
I redrawn the ribs and keel and had them fired on a laser. Unfortunately she came a little broken ...

Thank you all for your likes.

Thanks to the amateur for explaining the differences between Witsen and Ijk. I didn't know this.

I have to apologize for the inactivity of the thread in the past 3 weeks. After an agreement with Ab, we wanted to start when the website for pinase is launched. Unfortunately, IT specialists understand PCs, not ships.

Thanks to Ab for explaining the origin and history of these plans. But I have one question:
Why do the plans in Nicolaes Witsen and Shipbuilding differ and in Dutch merchant ships? Specifically, this numbering and the table to it.

When the program is online, could you Ab, still add a link?

Good day to all the modelers.

I'm very fond of 17th century Dutch ships. That's why I decided to build a pinnace. Why here? The reason is in the author of the plans. Ab Hoving offered me that if I presented the structure here, we could discuss a lot of issues publicly.

Plans for this ship can be found in various places:

Ab Hoving - Nicolaes Witsen and shipbuilding in the Dutch Golden Age
Ab Hoving - Dutch merchant ships
And here again - https://nautarch.tamu.edu/shiplab/AbHoving.htm
Antony Talen - http://blessed4789.byethost11.com/2018/07/24/pinas/?i=1

According to information from Aba, the 3D model site should also be launched by the end of February, I will add the link.

Before I go into construction, I'd like to ask:
I found the year of construction 1671 - is that a good thing?
Are there any plausible paintings, drawings - not this particular one, perhaps, but similar ships?
The text that you drew this boat from - is it available anywhere? I can't imagine how to draw a plan on just any contract.
Is there a Dutch archive on the Internet where you can get information?

Great job, beautiful boat!

Wonderful work !

Wonderful work !

Hi Marcus,
I follow your building very closely and keep my fingers crossed.
The book he spoke of Ab: Herman Ketting Prince Willem I have in PDF, only in German. If you're interested I will send.

I would also be interested in plans for Rex.

1 hour ago, Ab Hoving said:

 It's the only thing of which you can decide everything upon in your life.... 🙂

So this sentence really got me. That's a piece of truth!

Hi Ab,
after the summer break I sat down again and read the MSW.
- I wish you and your family a lot of health - it's the most valuable. what we have.
- Thank you for your help with the construction of the Grosse Yacht 1678, as well as for all the other modellers. Information from you is invaluable.
- I keep my fingers crossed in the next building and watch carefully.
                                                                                      Peter

Perfect work and look!