JerseyCity Frankie

I can never resist putting in my two cents on the issue of weather or not to include sails on a sailing ship model. I always try to advocate for including the sails since I view them as a defining aspect of a sailing vessel. The argument against sails is most often framed from the perspective that "they block the view of details on the model" and that they "are difficult". I will certainly agree that they are difficult! But I don't think that is an excuse to leave them off the model. The idea that they block the view of other aspects of the ship is true only in the sense that actual sails block the view of actual aspects of an actual ship. Thats how actual ships appear. Incidentally there are other things that are difficult to manage on ship models which ALSO block the view of deck details and are time consuming and difficult to make and install: Cannons! But you NEVER see people omit the cannons.

Flag hailyard line is going to be the thinnest rigging on the whole ship. I don't know the scale of the model you are building but its likely you don't need any special blocks secured aloft for the flag hailyards on your model, the real ones would be smaller than the palm of your hand. Your plan seams to  indicate a ring at the masthead, if this is intended for the flag hailyard I would omit it. The ball at the top of the mast is called the Truck. Often the truck on an actual ship has the sheaves for two flag hailyards cut into it. Otherwise the Truck is merely ornamental. Its likely that if you have a kit supplied truck that it will be too big and out of scale, find something at home that is the right size- the Truck should not be more than a few scale inches wider than the masthead itself. If it was me, I would run a single line of the smallest thread I could find directly to the Truck. Rigging generally belays on deck in such a way that the higher up in the rigging the line originates, the farther aft it belays on the rails at the bulwarks. So your flag hailyard at the masthead is the highest bit of rigging on the mast and should be belayed farthest aft of all the rigging for that mast on the rail.

Next comes the detailing of the lower deck, with Dafi's excellent pictures of his work on this deck has helped me. plus he sent with the etch some seconds he built, but to him were under par for his work.
 
To me they were just what I was looking for, the capstans I used but made the riding bitts ,main pump from evergreen plastic.
Here shows the main and jeer capstons, these saved me a lot of work I can tell you.

Next it was making the riding bits.
Sandwiched two pieces of evergreen together to make the thickness.




Measured up and finished with the bits.
.

Next in turn were the main pumps all located on this deck.



Once I had these items done it was the turn of the hatch's gangway's , These again had to be scratch built using evergreen plastic.

Used dafi's etch grills at this stage for some of the hatch's.

Later I cut out the gangway's to fit ladders.
 
Very Important at this stage to make sure all line's up, masts/ hatchs and capstans, being that there are two capstans, one on lower and one on middle deck which could be used as single or together.
 
So next it will be the masts.
Foxy

Here is the picture of the made mast of the Great Britain from Greenwich, nicely seen at least 8 parts.
 

 
and the Victory with different structure 

 
Just one small question: Did the Vasa have made masts? I always believed it to be pole masts. Even the much bigger Victory had pole masts when build in 1765.
 
Cheers, Daniel

January 4, 2012
 

 

 

 
February 8, 2012
 

 

 

 

 
 

Here is my take on drybrushing: You have to think of two spectrums of the condition of the paint you are using. One spectrum is the degree to which the paint is either wet, right out of the container, or dry, where it is set up and hardened. The other spectrum is how much paint is on your brush, with one end of the  spectrum being a fully charged brush ready to drip paint, the other being a brush that has given up all it has to give in terms of leaving a paint mark on a surface.
In order to drybrush a surface you should have a solid base coat of one color already on the model and the color you are drybrushing over this should be different in terms of tone or vibrance, usually this color is a lighter color.
Your brush should be a crappy brush, one that has seen the last of its days as a pointy neatly bristled brush. What you want is an ugly mop of a brush a signpainter would forsake, one  with bristles like a bad hair day.
You want to get to the far end of each of the spectrums I mentioned above. You want some paint in the bristles of this brush but you don't want that paint very wet nor do you want very much paint charging up the bristles. 
You get to this happy place by dipping your brush then wiping the brush on some scrap material, you wipe this mopy brush around on a scrap of cardboard or something until you got 80 to 90% of that paint out of the bristles.
When the brush is hardly leaving any paint marks your just about ready to drybrush on the model.
The feeling you want is that feeling you get when you have a used up felt tip magic marker that is out of ink, you can't write your name  with it but you could still ruin a white linen tablecloth if you pressed hard enough.
THIS is the brush you now drag across your model. Depending on where the brush exists straddling both of the two spectrums ( and it will be shifting on these spectrums as you use it) you will see for yourself how hard you need to press and in which direction you need to brush. Lightly at first and brushing in one direction, pressing hard and scribbling in all directions at the end when the paint is all but gone. Its this last stage where you get the best drybrushing effects as the paint is only adhering on the higher points of the surface you are scumbling over.

Thank you Ian :-)   There was a simple reason - to many flaws still in my one ...   ... we had some major discussions in our german forum about the details ...   ... and this interesting discussion did not finished yet ...   ... but Bernd was already having a far better result!   About my humble effords ... - First the bouy slings should be served. I fixed that. - then it looks like the buoy rope should be tarred. But what color does that mean? That lead to another lengthy but fruitful discussion about the colors of tarred rope over there. So I was appreciating very much the parallel discussion here: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/7561-ratlinestarred-or-not/   ... and I opted for a dark brown ... - then I misinterpreted a text and left the cork natural: Version 3 to be skipped ... - Next was about the thickness of the buoy slings. Usually lanyards and tackles are half or a third of the following rope: With the buoy rope being a third of the anchor cable (Harland Seamanship) and then another third ... ouch much too thick ... understood, those slings were simply to hold the buoy and were not for big pulling. - In the moment I am doing Version 5 with tarred cork, buoy slings served ropes in a diameter corresponding to the contemporary models in a dark brown and a buoy rope tarred in a medium brown.   quote from Luce, thanks to Chapman:  Source: http://hnsa.org/doc/luce/index.htm Buoys and Buoy-Ropes. Buoys attached by their buoy-ropes to the crown, point out at all times the situation of the anchor. The can buoy is in the form of a cone, it floats base uppermost, and the rope is attached to the apex. The nun buoy is largest at the centre, tapering at the ends. The latter is in general use. Fig. 434, Plate 92.   The size of buoy-ropes is one-third of the cable. The length varies, for it is shortened or lengthened according to the depth of the water in which you will drop the anchor.   It is bent to the crown of the anchor, by taking a half-hitch around one arm, and putting the running eye in its end over the other arm; or a clove-hitch is formed over the crown, and the end stopped along the shank, or to its own part. Or,   Attach a large thimble to the crown of the anchor, by a stout strap of the size of the buoy-rope (one-third the cable). Through this thimble is rove the buoy-rope, both parts leading up to the buoy. The advantage of this is, that the buoy-rope may be smaller, and when necessary, a stout rope of the required size, may be, by it, rove through this thimble in the crown of the anchor, thereby affording a greater purchase than that of a single rope, for weighing.   The only objection to this plan is, that the two parts of the small buoy-rope will become hawser-laid, and will not unreeve. But this may be, in a great measure, remedied by having one part plain-laid and the other back-handed rope.   253   Sometimes a buoy will not watch, from its having filled with water, or from the buoy-rope being too short, particularly in a tide-way. By this is meant, that it does not float on the surface of the water. In the former case it will be necessary to bleed it, that is, to let the water out. In the latter, to lengthen the buoy-rope.   Buoys are generally kept, one in each of the fore channels for common use. Spare ones are kept in the hold.   It was a very good rule, that an anchor should never be let go without a buoy attached. But since the screw propeller has been introduced, they have been less used, through fear of fouling the screw, though the end of a chain is always buoyed in slipping.     Harland Seamanship page 231 to 279 
The biggest collection of informations
- Buoy a quarter of the anchor shaft´s length
- Buoy rope a third diameter of the anchor cable - fits to the dimensions Steels gives for a first rate
Marquardt Schoner in Nord und Süd page 177ff + Bemastung und Takelung ... page 380ff
- Buoy made of cork of slices thickness 1 inch
- served slings
- Buoy rope 18 to 25 fathoms (about. 30 to 45 meter)

Nares Seamanship page 120ff
- plenty details
- first throw the buoy, then let go the anchor

Brady Ketch Anchor page 150ff
- to break loose the anchor with a small boat: stretch the rope with all men on this side, belay the rope tight and then everybody jumping to the other side of the boat :-)
- page 197: Adapt the buoy to the depth of the water with a bouy rope knot. 

Lever Sheet Anchor page 68ff
- buoy slings served
- Length of the buoy rope 17 to 18 fathoms

Lavery Nelson´s Ships page 170
- buoy rope fixed on the arms side and not on the ring to facilitate breaking free the anchor

McGowan/McKay HMS Victory page 194ff
- fishing the anchor

McKay AOTS HMS Victory 
- nodding ;-)

Lavery AOTS Bellona page 66ff
- very weak way of stowing
- stream anchor fixed arm on arm as seen with Brady http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/200881.html (no canvas around the cork)

Marquardt AOTS Costitution page 82
- some of the most stable lashings shown in literature

Lee Masting and Rigging page 129ff
- length of the buoy rope depending on the expected depth of the water
- the rope for the slings is about 9 times the length of the buoy
- nice pictures of anchors from contemporary models

Schrage Rundhölzer 
- nothing
 
 
Steel sayz:
http://hnsa.org/doc/steel/part2.htm#pg61
page 61
Buoy-ropes are commonly laid shorter than cables.
page 66
For Stays, Tacks, Sheets, and Buoy-Ropes, which are Cable-laid, allow the same Length as is shewn for Yarn in the Tables for Cables, which shew how many Fathoms and Feet of Yarn will make a Fathom of Cable, from 1 to 120 Fathoms
 
 
 

XXXDAn
 
And some more Steel, Brady, Nares und Biddlecombe :-)
   

I recently borrowed this book from the library.
 
Period ship Modeling: an illustrated masterclass: the Building of the American Privateer Prince de Neufchatel by Phillip Reed.
 
In it he shows how to make remarkable small scale sails from tissue dipped in diluted paint.
 
 

Hi.
New here. I see that any medium of ship can be shown here as a build.
 
Mine will be from the Heller Kit, but with Dafi's etch sets.
 
Will also scratch build most of the deck detail from the lower deck to the poop deck.
Materials used will be the plastic, PE and resin.






Some of the etch I will be using.




Will be altering the hull steps to the later part of Victory's career.
 
Also using evergreen and syrin rope, blocks and other items.

Hope you find this Interesting.

Foxy

Working on some of the interior features. Box for the whale gun and the compass

Very nice work. The details are excellent. The large scale makes it easier to create details. These small boats in larger scales are always fun to build.
 
Russ

Hi Ian. Stunsails (spelled Studdingsails) are supplementary sails that can be set on either side of the square sails. The booms you mention could be slid outboard through iron rings attached to the yards well past the ends of the yardams. On these extensions smaller square sails could then be spread, giving the effect of more canvas on each yard.  Here is an excellent recently posted photo of them in use on the the Europa which makes their disposition plain. Studdingsails were only set in light airs with the wind abaft the beam.
Most of the time the booms were not in use and they were positioned inboard, which is how they are usually depicted on models. The canvas on them was "flown" up to them from the deck, not furled on them at all when not in use. The sails could be set as needed and not necessarily all at the same time nor even symmetrically- you could set the portside ones but not the starboard ones, or even set the ones to port on some yards and ones to starboard on others. All depending on the wind. 

Hi Ian. Stunsails (spelled Studdingsails) are supplementary sails that can be set on either side of the square sails. The booms you mention could be slid outboard through iron rings attached to the yards well past the ends of the yardams. On these extensions smaller square sails could then be spread, giving the effect of more canvas on each yard.  Here is an excellent recently posted photo of them in use on the the Europa which makes their disposition plain. Studdingsails were only set in light airs with the wind abaft the beam.
Most of the time the booms were not in use and they were positioned inboard, which is how they are usually depicted on models. The canvas on them was "flown" up to them from the deck, not furled on them at all when not in use. The sails could be set as needed and not necessarily all at the same time nor even symmetrically- you could set the portside ones but not the starboard ones, or even set the ones to port on some yards and ones to starboard on others. All depending on the wind. 

I have been working on the yards a lot lately.  There is a lot more to do than I remember from my Victory Model 30 years ago.  I am trying to get as many blocks as I can on the yards before installing them.  As this ship will not have sails, I do not need the leech or bunt line blocks, so I will be leaving those off.  Everything attached to the yards needs to be served, and attached primarily with rose lashings (or a close approximation).  I made the slings as you can see, and I am making the trusses now (no photos of those yet).  I am also putting on shrouds at the top gallant to royal yards tressel tree.  I will post photos of how I attached them later.  I also made and sort of installed the spanker and gaff booms.
 
I apologize for the messy deck, I will vacuum it clean when I finish installing the yards.  Once the yards are done, I think all that is left is the anchor assemblies, the davits, and the ships boats???

Here are some photos of the yards, yard tackle, and stirrups.  At 1/72 scale I think this is about as small as I would like to attempt making the stirrups this way.  If you coat the assembly with super glue it makes a nice stiff stirrup that hangs from the yard nicely.  That is my self made serving machine the yard tackle is laying on.

Joe: there are several ways to go to build something a little different presented here in no particular order except for the kit that I think presents the least scratch building. All ships mentioned have plans at NMM.
 
1) Cruizer kit.   As near as I can tell, without doing a lot of digging, is that 50 to 70 or more Cruizers were built with the fore and aft platforms, and that guess is based on the plans that list the brigs built from those plans, but it doesn't guarantee that those individual brigs were built with platforms. This route would require upgrading 16 cannons with 16 x 32 pound carronades. I've been following most of the Snake builds (no Cruizers right now) and all those builders were unhappy with the carronades in the kit and bought the upgrades from Caldercraft which would be expensive. Chuck (w/Syren) has been promising carronades but he doesn't list them yet (at the time I'm writing this) and his carronades may be cheaper and of even better quality.
 

Alert (1813)
 
2) Cruizer kit.   Some of the plans at NMM show a few of the later-built brigs without the platforms (Alert of 1813 for one). Others show them with a pair of small enclosed heads on deck at the aft corners (Redwing, Eclair, Sparrowhawk in about 1806).
 

Redwing (1806), Eclair, Sparrowhawk
 
3) Cruizer kit.   Bellette and Gannett, both built in 1814, had the aft two heads, like in 2), but with a larger forward platform that covered the chase ports and 6 pounders. This platform almost butted to the fore mast and was set higher than the usual platform to give working room under it, but not much.
 

Bellette and Gannett (1814)
 
4) Snake kit.   Beginning in about 1822 many of the remaining Cruizers were refit as ship-sloops (Fly 2, Grasshopper 2, Arachne, Thracian). The forward platform was enlarged around the fore mast and raised with a bulwark and the aft platform extended almost to the mizzen and raised so the helmsmen were under cover. This platform was not intended as a deck, just a cover, and is without ladders. The two aft enclosed heads were under this cover as were two more enclosed heads under the forward platform. The transom also appears to have been reset to a bit more vertical position. The tiller may have been raised to above this platform and rigged to eliminate the tiller rigging under the cover.  Mast locations appear to be slightly different on many of these refits
 

 

 
Fly and Grasshopper of 1813, both were the second Cruizer class brig with the name.
 
5) Snake kit.   In 1830 Arachne was again refit with a different foremast location and change in the size of the bulwarks on the forward platform.
 

Arachne as refit in 1830 showing the earlier refit in about 1823.
 
 
I don't know if any of this helps you or just adds to the confusion, but it's something I wanted to point out as options for building something different.

They are regarded as difficult creatures. Studdingsail booms are almost thought of as disposable since they often break, as I have heard crew from Pride of Baltimore II report. They can only exist in light wind conditions and if the wind picks up they must be got in quickly. "Modern" square rigged ships seldom carried them, for instance none of the big steel hulled German barques had them.

Hi Ian. Stunsails (spelled Studdingsails) are supplementary sails that can be set on either side of the square sails. The booms you mention could be slid outboard through iron rings attached to the yards well past the ends of the yardams. On these extensions smaller square sails could then be spread, giving the effect of more canvas on each yard.  Here is an excellent recently posted photo of them in use on the the Europa which makes their disposition plain. Studdingsails were only set in light airs with the wind abaft the beam.
Most of the time the booms were not in use and they were positioned inboard, which is how they are usually depicted on models. The canvas on them was "flown" up to them from the deck, not furled on them at all when not in use. The sails could be set as needed and not necessarily all at the same time nor even symmetrically- you could set the portside ones but not the starboard ones, or even set the ones to port on some yards and ones to starboard on others. All depending on the wind. 

Hi Ian. Stunsails (spelled Studdingsails) are supplementary sails that can be set on either side of the square sails. The booms you mention could be slid outboard through iron rings attached to the yards well past the ends of the yardams. On these extensions smaller square sails could then be spread, giving the effect of more canvas on each yard.  Here is an excellent recently posted photo of them in use on the the Europa which makes their disposition plain. Studdingsails were only set in light airs with the wind abaft the beam.
Most of the time the booms were not in use and they were positioned inboard, which is how they are usually depicted on models. The canvas on them was "flown" up to them from the deck, not furled on them at all when not in use. The sails could be set as needed and not necessarily all at the same time nor even symmetrically- you could set the portside ones but not the starboard ones, or even set the ones to port on some yards and ones to starboard on others. All depending on the wind. 

Hi Ian. Stunsails (spelled Studdingsails) are supplementary sails that can be set on either side of the square sails. The booms you mention could be slid outboard through iron rings attached to the yards well past the ends of the yardams. On these extensions smaller square sails could then be spread, giving the effect of more canvas on each yard.  Here is an excellent recently posted photo of them in use on the the Europa which makes their disposition plain. Studdingsails were only set in light airs with the wind abaft the beam.
Most of the time the booms were not in use and they were positioned inboard, which is how they are usually depicted on models. The canvas on them was "flown" up to them from the deck, not furled on them at all when not in use. The sails could be set as needed and not necessarily all at the same time nor even symmetrically- you could set the portside ones but not the starboard ones, or even set the ones to port on some yards and ones to starboard on others. All depending on the wind. 

Hi Ian. Stunsails (spelled Studdingsails) are supplementary sails that can be set on either side of the square sails. The booms you mention could be slid outboard through iron rings attached to the yards well past the ends of the yardams. On these extensions smaller square sails could then be spread, giving the effect of more canvas on each yard.  Here is an excellent recently posted photo of them in use on the the Europa which makes their disposition plain. Studdingsails were only set in light airs with the wind abaft the beam.
Most of the time the booms were not in use and they were positioned inboard, which is how they are usually depicted on models. The canvas on them was "flown" up to them from the deck, not furled on them at all when not in use. The sails could be set as needed and not necessarily all at the same time nor even symmetrically- you could set the portside ones but not the starboard ones, or even set the ones to port on some yards and ones to starboard on others. All depending on the wind. 

Hi Ian. Stunsails (spelled Studdingsails) are supplementary sails that can be set on either side of the square sails. The booms you mention could be slid outboard through iron rings attached to the yards well past the ends of the yardams. On these extensions smaller square sails could then be spread, giving the effect of more canvas on each yard.  Here is an excellent recently posted photo of them in use on the the Europa which makes their disposition plain. Studdingsails were only set in light airs with the wind abaft the beam.
Most of the time the booms were not in use and they were positioned inboard, which is how they are usually depicted on models. The canvas on them was "flown" up to them from the deck, not furled on them at all when not in use. The sails could be set as needed and not necessarily all at the same time nor even symmetrically- you could set the portside ones but not the starboard ones, or even set the ones to port on some yards and ones to starboard on others. All depending on the wind. 

Hi Ian. Stunsails (spelled Studdingsails) are supplementary sails that can be set on either side of the square sails. The booms you mention could be slid outboard through iron rings attached to the yards well past the ends of the yardams. On these extensions smaller square sails could then be spread, giving the effect of more canvas on each yard.  Here is an excellent recently posted photo of them in use on the the Europa which makes their disposition plain. Studdingsails were only set in light airs with the wind abaft the beam.
Most of the time the booms were not in use and they were positioned inboard, which is how they are usually depicted on models. The canvas on them was "flown" up to them from the deck, not furled on them at all when not in use. The sails could be set as needed and not necessarily all at the same time nor even symmetrically- you could set the portside ones but not the starboard ones, or even set the ones to port on some yards and ones to starboard on others. All depending on the wind. 

Hi Ian. Stunsails (spelled Studdingsails) are supplementary sails that can be set on either side of the square sails. The booms you mention could be slid outboard through iron rings attached to the yards well past the ends of the yardams. On these extensions smaller square sails could then be spread, giving the effect of more canvas on each yard.  Here is an excellent recently posted photo of them in use on the the Europa which makes their disposition plain. Studdingsails were only set in light airs with the wind abaft the beam.
Most of the time the booms were not in use and they were positioned inboard, which is how they are usually depicted on models. The canvas on them was "flown" up to them from the deck, not furled on them at all when not in use. The sails could be set as needed and not necessarily all at the same time nor even symmetrically- you could set the portside ones but not the starboard ones, or even set the ones to port on some yards and ones to starboard on others. All depending on the wind. 

Hi Ian. Stunsails (spelled Studdingsails) are supplementary sails that can be set on either side of the square sails. The booms you mention could be slid outboard through iron rings attached to the yards well past the ends of the yardams. On these extensions smaller square sails could then be spread, giving the effect of more canvas on each yard.  Here is an excellent recently posted photo of them in use on the the Europa which makes their disposition plain. Studdingsails were only set in light airs with the wind abaft the beam.
Most of the time the booms were not in use and they were positioned inboard, which is how they are usually depicted on models. The canvas on them was "flown" up to them from the deck, not furled on them at all when not in use. The sails could be set as needed and not necessarily all at the same time nor even symmetrically- you could set the portside ones but not the starboard ones, or even set the ones to port on some yards and ones to starboard on others. All depending on the wind.