Dowmer

Lou, thanks for dropping by and you are very kind. Steve, thanks. I appreciate the comment.

To give everyone an idea of how Alaskan Cedar ages, the below pic is of a ship I started in 2001. I then put it away in 2003 in a box. No sunlight on it, but it does have a light coat of Tung oil. You can see it has aged to a soft golden yellow. Very pleasing. The rest of the wood is ebony and holly. Let’s just say the ship has “weathered in frame” as they used to do. It’s about time it made it back to the lumberyard and onto the shipways to get finished. 😊

A bit of an update. Deadeyes seized on the port side and starboard side forward. One more to go. 😃 I made a convenient jig to hold the deadeyes in place. I know this has been covered in other threads before but for those that haven’t seen it I show what I did. I used some 26 gage wire that just fit in the holes of the deadeye and cut some short pieces about 1.5 inches long. Then put about a 30-45 degree bent in the middle. The amount isn’t important but it should be enough to separate the ends when you put the two together. I then soldered them together. See pic. Next I straightened them out and wrapped them around two small nails the distance I wanted between the deadeyes. This created the holding jig. I only made two, one for each side, but you could easily make more. It only took t minutes to make them. A pic showing them in action. Very convenient. A few more Then time to rove the lanyards. There are some good discriptions on how to set up the deadeyes in contemporary works. One of them is “The young Sea officers sheet anchor” by Darcy Lever. As the shroud cables cross each other and are seized at the top of the deadeye at the top, the short end should lay on the aft side port and the forward side starboard. The stopped knot of the lanyard will be placed on the opposite side and reeve though the deadeyes and lashed to the shroud above. The pic below is not finished on the starboard side. The lanyard is only tight to check the tension and spacing. But you can see the bottom deadeye hooked to the chainplate. These extreme closeups are very unforgiving. 😥 I also drilled another hole in the stem for the stay lanyard. After close inspection of the NMM model I noticed there are three holes, not two. Lanyard set up and seized to the stay. A couple of other spare pics for setting up the deadeyes. Enough for now. Enjoy.

Thanks Lou, I appreciate your kind comments. You are correct, but these generally were not longboats, but larger sloops or schooners around 40 tons that they carried as frames in the hold. The Columbia carried the Adventure in her hold and it was assembled South of Nootka Sound, B.C during the winter of 1788. The first ship built on the PNW coast. All the other timber was sawn on site by their carpenter. Wow, what a job that must have been! 🤪

Nice job Lou, i think one of the reasons edge bending becomes too difficult is when the planking is thicker than 1/32”. I seem to remember Chuck saying that he typically uses stock that is about that thickness. Much thicker than that or more than 1/16” gets real difficult. It’s better to spile then I believe.

I forgot to mention for the rigging line and blocks I’m using parts from Syren Ship Model Company. The stuff provided by Model Shipways in this kit are about the cheapest, crappiest stuff I’ve seen. Definitely low grade nylon rigging line. So it helps to upgrade these or make them yourself for a much better look. Heres a pic of Syren upgrade items.

Tasmanian, Thanks for visiting. You should have an enjoyable time building this boat. Be sure you support the frames well when you fair the ribs for the planking and take your time. This fragile small boat is not an inexperienced build.

Fright, Thanks for visiting my thread and the complement. I hope this boat will be a little bit different then the standard longboat built by many. Cheers

My favorite part is rigging. My work table is nothing special, just a card table in the basement and a vise. Most of the boat was made with this arrangement which goes to show that you don’t need much to build one of these boats. 😉 I started with the stays. With the forestay and back stays added it will hold the mast in place pretty well so I can seize the deadeyes in place without everything shifting all over the place. I made most of the standing rigging off the model so I could slip them over the masthead in the correct order. The metal fittings and mast cap at the top are not fitted yet.....err perhaps I should say they were removed once I found out I couldn’t get the standing rigging over the mast head. 😟 I’ll add them later after I’m sure everything is in place. All the lanyards are tied off temporarily until I get the deadeyes turned in and can adjust everything. Below you can see the backstays hooked into the eyes of their respective chainplate. Another view from the bow. The belaying pins still need to be blackened. The bowsprit is only sitting in place. A block has been added to the horse aft for the main sheet. Next I’ll turn the deadeyes into their respective shrouds and hook them onto the plates. That’s all for now.

Hello fellow shipbuilders I’ve been a member of MSW for awhile, but while I have gleaned considerable mounts of techniques and information, I haven’t “given back” by contributing a build thread. So I figured I’ll dip the proverbial “toe” into the lake of knowledge and wade gently into the wash of expertise here in MSW. Although the initial build of the hull is finished, I will be rigging the model and will continue to post my progress. I have modeled for years and my passion has waned from ships to giant scale RC aircraft and now back to ships. I will admit that my ship modeling has increased my scale fidelity in aircraft considerably, but my first love is the sea so the ships call again. So hear I am. Jumping back into the ship realm after 15 years of dormancy and to be honest, it feels like coming home after an extended trip. I will try my best to make an acceptable model but doubt that it will ever touch the level of perfection seen by many on this site. The subject is the 18th century longboat designed by Chuck Passaro in 1/4 scale (1:48). However, it will be a blank canvas to serve as inspiration for the true subject, an 18 century merchant longboat used in the Pacific Northwest fur trade circa 1790. I never build kits per plans. I like subjects that are unique and that include some research. So the kit will provide a starting point for departure. My main interest per my signature line below are the historical and exploration vessels of the PNW coast. As such, I figured it would be interesting to build a longboat that could theoretically be used from a frigate like Columbia Redidiva (name sake of the Columbia river in Oregon). Some planning assumptions: The larger ships that the boats came from were small, so the longboats, cutters, yawls and jolly boats that accompanied them were small as well to fit between the masts or on deck. Reviewing their logbooks, these small boats 16-24 feet were constantly employed shifting and setting the anchors for warping or mooring in the treacherous tidal and unknown waters. Typically the boats were armed with swivel guns and muskets. Sailing rig seems to be either a gaff or lug sail rig that was preferred. The boats needed to be very sea worthy due to the unpredictable weather, tides and heavy usage lightering water casks, wood, furs and supplies to and from shore. Due to unknown shoal water throughout the area, these boats were typically employed trading for furs with the natives in shallow water while the larger ship stood off the lee shore in deeper water. This offered the boats the opportunity to explore and operate independently for a considerable time. Terrifying if you think about how small they were in a hostile land halfway around the world will little supplies or support if stranded. As far as paint or preservation, merchant ships were typically cheap and paint as a luxury and was used sparingly for preservation. Paint was expensive and cut into profit. Reviewing logbooks showed that the typical paint carried was lampblack, Spanish brown, and varnish. Enough of my blathering........ I built the basic hull earlier before I decided to do a build thread. Sorry, no build picks. But I assure you that the construction was the same as all of the other 18th century longboat kits on this site. No real revelations or deviations from the basic construction. I used only the basswood parts provided in the kit. If I had it to do over, I’d probably mill my own yellow cedar and boxwood for the planking and parts. The basswood is soft and a pain to work with and the grain is too fuzzy. One of my least favorite woods. Here’s the hull built. I’ll point out some of the unique features. Paint was lamp black, hull white and satin poly-c. I added a bit more sheer than the plans called for simply because I like the look and some of the plans from NMM had the amount I was looking for, so I figured it could be justified. Instead of thole pins supplied in the kit for the oars, I used another option that is typical of the time period instead of a washboard. I’m not sure what you call it. Why did I use this style, I don’t know, I like the look 😃. There was quite a bit of discussion on some other threads about placement of the horse. I chose the option of above the tiller. There are plans circa 1800 that show this so it fits and seems logical. You can also see the tree nails used in the planking. Holes drilled and filled with hobby putty as shown by Chuck in his builds. I typically like to use actual treenails but at this small of a scale with it being so fragile I decided to give Chucks method a try. It worked well. Below you can see that I added a post for a swivel forward of the second thwart, let into the raised deck into the keelson and secured and notched into the supported thwart. The swivel gun itself was purchased from Chuck at Syren Shipmodels. The handle, was 24 gage wire bent around the pommel and blackened. The metal supporting bands on the post and swivel support carriage were made out of paper and painted black. You can also see that I added a roller to the bow like BobF did with his boat. Very functional considering the heavy work that the boat would be doing moving anchors etc. The grapnel anchor rests on the floorboards. The chainplates have eyes for hooks instead of strapped into the deadeyes. This allows the rigging to be set up and taken down quicker. The NMM model is set up like this. Finally, I added a block onto the stem for the outhaul for the jib. If you look at the NMM model it has this feature but isn’t rigged. If you look closely there is some damage to the bowsprit so I assume the rigging was probably repaired at some point and perhaps not rigged. There are contemporary paintings and plans showing this out haul rigged through a block such as this. I’m assuming that it helped hold the bowsprit when the jib was rigged in brisk winds, acting like a bobstay. A few more pics So with the hull complete its time for the rigging. The next installment will start where I’m currently at. We are now all caught up. I hope you have enjoyed it so far.

Mike, I like that you toned down the red with a little burnt umber. I think too many people use modern red colors that were just too bright for what they had available back then. Looking nice.

I concur with all the aforementioned comments. We are all our worst critic. Every time I make a part or look back at previous old work I see a myriad of issues and say to myself, “Man I suck!” 🤪 But it I persevere and slowly my modeling gets better....I hope anyways. 😃 So keep going and keep posting Lou, we are all happy to see progress. I only laugh at myself. 😂

Of course the wonderful cedar smell doesn't hurt either. 😀 It will perfume the whole room.

Chuck, Just my .02 for whatever that buys you 😊 If you were building a Captains barge or Pinnace which denotes status and indulgencies, then I would probably put some kind of extra molding work on the edge. However, a longboat is predominantly a working boat (albeit the Medway LB is a bit fancier with the paintwork). I personally would go with the standard flat edge since these boats would take quite a bit of abuse and I doubt they would dress them up that much to only be damaged. But then again, it is personal taste and I don't think anyone will fault you if you wish to "doll" it up a bit with a molded edge. It will be beautiful either way. 👍

@Kurt, You ain't kidding. Chuck must have super-human modeling skills or he is building this thing 1:1 and telling us its 1:24 😁 My stuff looks good until you zoom in like that and then all I ever see is glue marks, smudges, wood fuzz, rounded edges and lint. How does he do it! The edges are so crisp and clean. I'm assuming the type of wood helps (apart from Chuck's incredible skills). I've worked with Alaskan Yellow Cedar on models for 20 years. Wonderful stuff to use.

Masterful, Congratulations Marsalv

Mark, This was already discussed a few posts back. Possible but not advisable, with potential disastrous consequences (going swimming). But no one knows exactly how they actually sailed 250 years ago. Brian, I don't think there is any historical precedence for modern adaptations such as this. Not for the 18th century anyway. Cheers

Shipman....I like what you are thinking. That would make a good name for an Ale! 😀 I agree that inside the ships they probably whitewashed. Whitewashing was a coating mixture of chalked lime that was used to quickly give a uniform clean appearance to a wide variety of surfaces and had minor anti-microbial effects. The discussion of the Spanish Brown was for internal bulwarks on the exposed weather decks or even possibly for outside the ship depending on the nationality and use (merchant etc).

Thanks Roger. I think we all agree that there are issues with the way the gaff is rigged, for better or worse but there is historical precedence for whatever insanity drove them to it. I agree there probably wasn't a dedicated bobstay for the bowsprit. We covered that already, but there is a block on the stem for a purpose and it’s documented in other plans as well. So do you agree that the outhaul should reeve through this and provide some stability to the bowsprit like in the plan shown? By the way Roger, do you have a build thread of your longboat. I’d love to see a picture or a thread for it? cheers

Thanks el cid, I figure the same but some of the contemporary 18th century models have fairly bright red. However, most are pretty muted. But who knows if that is from time and dirt or originally like that. Below is an excerpt from the Log of the Columbia being repaired for sea in 1790 in Boston. You can see a Mr Thomas K Jones was paid 18 shillings for 2 kegs of Spanish Brown. Since this isn’t enough to paint a whole ship I’m assuming it is for touch ups for the voyage. Later it shows 4 hogsheads of clay and linseed oil and turpentine. So I’m guessing they were mixing it as they needed. I don’t know what else they would have used that much clay for? Later it lists £33, 4 shillings for painting the ship but they don’t mention what colors or where. A considerable sum of money for the time.

Interesting hypothesis Chuck. I believe the tiller arm is designed to slip in and out of the rudder head. So it is possible, but I would think tacking or jibing while essentially unshipping your rudder control is a recipe for disaster. But stranger things have been done. If I was in a boat rigged in this confounded way, since the boat is relatively small, I would probably start the turn, as the wind comes off, loosen the sheet with enough slack to pull it around the tiller with one hand, then snug it up again as it passes through and catches the wind again. But that’s just me “spit balling” 😬 😀

Druxey, I think you, Chuck and me have the same opinion. Perhaps I didn’t explain myself very well. That the outhaul is rigged through the stem block. As it is hove taught it probably acts similar to a bobstay, holding the end of the jib boom down. Remember, the jib probably isn’t used in anything but light to medium breeze anyway. Like chuck says, there is other evidence and he doesn’t know why the Medway model isn’t rigged that way. Lots of stuff happens to models over centuries. If you look closely it appears there is damage. The metal work has come loose holding the bowsprit to the stem. The bowsprit probably came loose at some point. They put it back on and didn’t reeve the outhaul through the stem block. That’s my guess anyway.

I know this is an old thread, and there was a very heated debate about the working of the tiller with the strange horse arrangement, but i just could pass this sail plan up when I saw it on the NMM website. I know both travelers are correct as we have discussed, and I agree with Chuck on his version, but perhaps the comment about "they learned later to change it" never happened everywhere. Here's another example of the impossible version below the tiller in a drawing as late as 1910 from Scotland!!! This impossibly difficult sailing rig still baffles me, but here it is again. Someone must like it? Another point that I would like to bring up that I don't think anyone has addressed. It's the absence of a bobstay for the jib. You would thing that there would be considerable pressure on the jib pulling it up and something would be needed to hold it down. I read in Lees Masting and Rigging that mentions that longboats carried a bobstay. But the models don't seem to show one. Then I looked closer at the picture of the Medway model that Chuck shows for the inspiration for the 18th century longboat. See below, it has what appears to be a sheave attached to the stem for rigging a possible bobstay or jib tack.. And then I found a sail plan in the NMM (albeit a slightly later plan circa 1800) of a cutter/longboat with what appears to be a bobstay or possibly the sail rigging through something similar on the stem. Perhaps a bobstay could have been rigged on the Medway model but was damaged and fell off over the centuries. Better yet, I think the rigging from the sail is supposed to reeve through the block on the stem thus acting like a bobstay holding the bowsprit down when it is pulled tight. I think the line on the Medway probably reeved through this block on its stem. If not, then why would they put it on? Who knows, but I find it interesting nonetheless. Just more options to consider.

I know this is an old thread but I thought I would add a bit of information. I believe what Roger was referring to above is a paint called "Spanish Brown" which was very common from 16th to 19th century. Presumably it was used early on by the Spanish (hence the name), but that is an assumption. It was red clay or oxide (dirt) mixed with a binding agent (linseed oil). It was used because it was cheap (literally cheap as dirt), but had a pleasing brownish red color. The color is prevalent on old surviving historic houses such as those in Colonial Williamsburg. I've gone through chandlery supply records on ships out of Boston in the 18th century and you can see quantities of "Spanish Brown" in their inventories along with lamp black. I think it was more predominant with merchant ships later in the 18th century. Since paint was expensive, it doesn't surprise me that they would have used a cheap preservative such as this as paint on ships along with tar. Here's a picture of a home in Williamsburg with Spanish Brown. It takes on different hues depending on the amount and type of dirt that was used but is usually some version of dark reddish brown. Anyway, I thought it was an interesting tidbit. I'm doing some research on a merchant ship I'm building dated 1788 and I'm trying to figure out the colors (especially the bulwarks) and this paint was listed in its supplies. I'll probably post something more specific in the paint forum section later on to get more opinions and info. Cheers

Al, One other thing. I know this is very obvious but just to make sure the strip of wood you are trying to shape is the width of the profile. If not then it will wander since the sides cant keep it within the profile shape. (see pic below) I know you are probably already doing this, but just stating the obvious. Like Chazz and Druxey said, the edge should be sharp and light strokes. I personally recycle my xacto blades (which I have plenty). Cut the profile you want with a file or my personal fav...abrasive Dremel wheel, and I have nice control since it is in the xacto handle.