Vladimir_Wairoa

1 hour ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir, in any pilot project like this, there are bound to be challenges along the way. I think your idea of getting laser cut bulkheads patterned after Model Expo's "Flying Fish" was and still is brilliant! Thanks in large part to your final computer profile, I was able to see why my drawings were so "barge like" in comparison. My sheer was way off. Too flat. While it's much closer and way more accurate now, I still haven't quite been able to match my lines with your graceful sheer. It may be the fact that you used ratios and I'm doing old fashioned measurements. I'm not exactly sure.

Meanwhile, if you can post some real nice beauty shots which align with images Mike's shared with us, that would be great!

Rich if there IS one thing im proud of IS the sheerline. Just Remember IT was you and Rob who always navifatede to IT. Its tried that IS IS far easier shape awesome line Down on computer program. I Remember particuparly that It woudnt have Been possible to shape IT on model withput laser cut. Im sure if IT. And even with that It was quite challenging to set IT. I just fibished one side today. You Can see that gracious sheer profile from the pictures quite nicely. And you Can rejoice All effort starijg  at whole sa de of magnificent profile or Boat itself. Im just in awe seing that deep deep belly materialised front of me starting and ending with Elegant clipper Lines. I think we Can see we Did IT !  i hope Rob wont mind sharing pics here as pissing on his parade i Will remove them and púť to mine just tried to photo IT from every angle possible even famous photo before launch its so so much reminiscent to me even without rails ...i moved photos to my thread. V. 

8 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir my apologies, I forgot to ask if you were using the metric system. All of my calculations have been on, I guess it's called the Olde English measuring system. I'm glad you resolved your issue. Yes, when the docking port is the appropriate size it make the ship appear bigger. Kudos to you for reconfiguring it. By the way a new detail I just noticed, which actually makes sense is that the entire docking port is surrounded by  very thin wood, like a picture frame. It makes sense that this port would be finished like that so that vulnerable strakes wouldn't be damaged. You have to look closely but it's visible in the scene of Glory on the Ways as well as in her fitting out scene.

I will check on that . i noticed frame outing a bit from inside of boat. i very much like that detail so i will incorporate it . V. 

38 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

than dear Rich, i have some deary suspicion then you would not like to hear  😕 maybe overal height or measurement of boat and my bulkheads construction are that much off ( how could hell be?) and she should be taller !  because i measured 22' as my line exactly :/:/ 😕 my goodness....last resort of rescue - im going to measure it thotoughly tomorrow ! 

Sily of me ! 

Its All All restored i didnt lose her. I BET Rob Has it right but i had to remeasure it. I was making port opening  vaguely freely from eye scan from pictures and look how wrong i was. As welcomed addition. my laziness got me now. Sily of me. 

Everything plays Safe. Waterways 12 inches = 4 milimenters. Now planks are 6and a half inches in my scale IT IS 2.29ilimenter! I forgot than i planked with 3 mm planks and it makes Bug difference... and counted those... Look ať the photo where opening should be founting 7 strakes multiple 2.2 mm = 1.5 centimeter.and how small IT should be which makes ship even bigger. ..sorry really..

I have to remake IT. For sure. All of a sudden copper line distance IS perfect. 

On 7/27/2021 at 6:33 PM, mbp521 said:

Vlad,

 

Just catching up on the progress, and I must say you are moving along at a Clippers pace. Beautiful job on the bowsprit and the planking is coming along great!
 

Nice to see the fine lines of these beautiful ships come together. 

 

-Brian

Thanis for stopping by Brian, I apreciate that. Have fun. !  V. 

3 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, a trick I've learned to allow me to avoid upside down photos is to edit them slightly. In this case, I reduced both sides just enough to take out the white edges. Now when it's posted, voila! right side up!

As for the confusion on Glory's coppering line. When she was originally launched in 1869, her copper line was specified as being 22'.

Later, that line was increased by adding an additional line of copper sheets. Michael Mjelde has said since each sheet was 14" tall, this raised the height of her copper line to 25'. It would make sense that after a few years at Sea, the Captain being concerned about protecting his vessel's Hull integrity made a recommendation to add the additional line of coppering.

It's actually referred to more accurately as yellow metal, but in America was it Muntz or something uniquely American that I'm till unsure of.

than dear Rich, i have some deary suspicion then you would not like to hear  😕 maybe overal height or measurement of boat and my bulkheads construction are that much off ( how could hell be?) and she should be taller !  because i measured 22' as my line exactly :/:/ 😕 my goodness....last resort of rescue - im going to measure it thotoughly tomorrow ! 

7 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

 Rob & Vladimir, due to my "anal retentive" preoccupation with keeping all things as accurate as possible with "GLORY of the SEAS" I have repeatedly counted strakes on her side (which is possible with a clear enough image) below her sheerline molding to the top of the starboard loading dock is exactly 7 strakes.

Per Duncan MacLean's 1869 description, all strakes were 6 1/2". So 7×6 = 42" + 7×1/2 = 3 1/2" more. Top of loading dock is exactly 45 1/2" below the lower sheerline molding. Since the side is exactly 4 strakes, that makes her side 4×6= 24" + 4x1/2 = 2", making the side 26".

It's harder to tell whether there are 9, 10 or even 11 strakes below the dock, since the thin white line which denotes the coppering line is so hard to make out. Basically that puts the lower dimension between

(1) 9×6=54" + 9×1/2"=4 1/2" or 58 1/2"

(2) 10×6"=60" + 10×1/2"= 5" for 65"

(3) 11×6"= 66" + 11× 1/2" = 5 1/2" for 71 1/2".

Where this gets even more interesting is the final dimensions we get to the top of the exterior Monkeyrail Molding. We're now sure the exterior of the Mainrail Bulkhead from sheerline molding to Mainrail Molding is 48" add 18" to top of Monkeyrail Molding equals 66" or 5 1/2'. Adding this to the other 3 measurements gets these results = 58 1/2" + 26" + 45 1/2" + 66" = 196" or 16' 4" putting it below the 17' we estimated as the lowest point of her sheerline midpoint of her Main shrouds. Since we know that Glory's sheer was 7' and I count the height at her Jibboom as 24' & an additional 1' for the Quarterrail Cap for Rob's 25' total height. Adding an additional 6 1/2" for 10 strakes puts us closer at 16' 10 1/2". Adding another 6 1/2" to that gives us 17' 4 1/2".

So the only useful measurement that fits neatly into every other one is the highest, being 11 strakes above the coppering line. 

Next I'll try to convert these actual dimensions into usable 1:96th & 1:72nd scale.

 

Rich.. I have it exactly 7 planks below and 4 planks in opening but it should ha e been originalyl a tad (1.5 mm aprox) higher as my planks are 3 mm wide and in scale should be 2.6 mm... well from sheer up making rails i will intend to be as precise as possible. Im leaning to leave copper line as it is 22'  atm. i will settle boat to later era than probably...still ill focus on  finishing planking hull and than to decide we can debate it in plenty. V. 

2 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Vlad..you are doing great....but I'm trying to wrap my head around the location of the side port.

 

Several images are conflicting and I know that the copper line has changed over time with Glory...probably due to her weight restrictions placed on her over time.....but...

 

Your ports are placed just above her copper line...similar to that of the image of her being towed to Alaska....but her original launch image shows the side port much higher from the copper line.  Even the era I am building shows her side port higher up from her copper line.   Note the images.  Her copper line has changed in her later years...probably after they removed the copper.  Sorry about the upside down image..?

well well. Thanks for this note Rob. You are right on the money i guess. What can I do ? 😕  well , i am out of thin strikes so i would be stuck again for couple or weeks if lowering copper line. i followed 22' measurement possibly of latest era. hmmm... you gave me important thinking for what to do with it now.... i like it being lower too....not like cutty sark up to rudder up  

I also have few questions Rob. you wrote aou are going to paint aour coppers yellow. would you mind engplighten me what paint are you going to use for it? i myself hate leaving it copper i prefer yellow color so i would like to do the same if you dont mind of course. i have great experience and outcome with revell enamel paints - very smooth thin layers. but i have to check for color and i dont even know how to make copper paltes from tapes i never done it before so i have to try it on somehow. having zero experience. but i am not there yet. 

another point i am really curious is - lets see last photo -  it is intereating than  ! copper plates are laid out following planking pattern? this is really beautiful and i would say unusual aproach it almost look like planks u der copper are visibl but its decieving as coppering is done exactly following planking strakes. . for example on cutty sark plates are laid horizontally !  I have crothers book so copper plates are explained in plenty and way the were mounted. 

so i would like to dollow this pattern as on last photograph. 

earlier coppering like photo in the midel or original one after built seem to me been done horizontally exactly as cutty sark was...from the photo this is only assumption  aybe you know better. 

when planks are black it doesnt matter if last two lines are thicker but i dont want to spoil overall effect of "proper planking.". i have to think it out morě Thanks much for observation Rob. v. 

After i lined Up and reached Copper line, there wont be painstaking planking downwards, no tapering  just very plain  messy approach to fill hull and speed Up as much as i Can. IT Will be covered by copper so i dont see the point... Using 5 mm planks now - no length paying attention etc.... Its goes quick. Im  afraid photos dont justify magnitude she IS in that scale. Huuge. All of a sudden She Will be planked ! Yay

3 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

I’m planning on running three sections. Cutting them in in similar fashion as I did with my Great Republic 

Rob you are quick. wow fantastic stuff. if you wont mind ill trY to learn this from you ! V.

5 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, welcome back! I hope you enjoyed your trip. The coppering process is so beautiful, even at this short beginning.

9 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob & Vladimir I'm finally feeling well enough to go back to completing my vision of how "GLORY of the SEAS" truly looked. This sketch is precisely to 1:72nd scale (1" = 8'). I don't have large enough paper to do one continuous drawing, so I've taped 3 ledger sized pages and added a section to include the entire Bowsprit & Jibboom. 

When you lay out the Keel to exactly 240' & Main Deck between perpendiculars of 250' it results in this Bow profile. With a 10' Stern, the distance from Taffrail to Knightheads of 265' matches precisely the profile as seen in the 1911 Seattle close up. FYI Glory's Grecian Goddess 'Athene' is exactly 7 1/2' from head to toe. 

This is still very much a work in progress but I wanted to share my progress with you and hear what your responses are. My eventual goal is to share this radically different interpretation of Glory's lines with Michael Mjelde to give him what I feel is a more accurate ship's plans than Ron Haug's still disappointing version.

 

 

Its been busy here  I aplaud to your drawing ability Rich detailing wise. measures aside bow is perfect i woudl say from the point i have it in head every day when working with it stern as well maybe one bit id have to look to books is sternpost curvature when meeting rudder hole. i thought its littel smaller but as planks foloow it makes perfect sense like this.  i like rudder sketch  going inside and the shape. and keel measures waterway and sheer is measured as well. just wow. pretty amazing stuff i can tell. 

4 hours ago, gak1965 said:

The planking work is very nice. Are you planning to paint or go for a bare wood second planking with some kind of attractive veneer? It will look great either way, just curious.

 

George K

I will paint black once sanded George. No second coat.  i was playing with idea to aply thin veneer ebony dyed but to some point it seems fake to me. so no other coat hopefully wont be needed  V. 

27 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir, it's your project not mine. You're correct that the opening is tiny. I just get carried away sometimes. I know, I should build my own version some day instead of bothering you guys.

Its not bothering at All Rich. Its helpful  in many respects and i am Thankful for that! What do You think of stern look atm? 

42 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir, you're welcome for the calculation. I figure after driving you nuts with all my other insistence on accuracy, you might just appreciate a helping hand, when I can. 

Figuring you're leaving the docks open leaves an opportunity to create an insert of sorts to give an impression of Glory's internal structure. For instance, each verticle rib is described as being exactly 28" center to center to the other. In the lower section they were 11" × 14" tapering to 10" × 12" towards the upper levels. More interestingly, each pair of ribs were cross trussed in between, corner to corner. The deck with these loading docks is described as having a hatch way 11' × 14' slightly larger than the main hatch way above which I believe was 10' × 12'. Of course, Hanging Knees would also need to be included as well as stanchions and upper deck beams. It wouldn't have to be too big. An insert could be built with hidden mirrors on both ends to create a greater sense of depth. Glory's criss-cross wooden beams were a unique construction alternative to iron lattice work or composite iron construction. It's just a thought to enliven this section of your Hull.

Oh well, Rich, understood. im afraid nothing of this sort really. In reality the opening is so small there is no point making effort to recreating these structrural parts for me at least. if i had wanted id have prepared bigger opening in planking to alow ribs etc...I will focus on continuing planking. also if you can see there are just big chunks of wood under planks suporting bulkheads so there is no space really. i would say  one cannot have everything. This time of building i decided i will focus on utmost detailing of outer boat. speaking of laser cut decorations moldings, stanchions and houses with decoratinos as close  as possible. hope that makes sense V. 

9 minutes ago, Tigersteve said:

Nice progress!

Steve

Thank you  Steve;) 

31 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir your planking is very beautiful. Your framing of her loading docks is very nice. I think having the open loading docks adds an extra dimension of authenticity to Glory's Hull. If you need help constructing the interior, I can sketch some of it for you. I'm particularly impressed with your run at the Counter which mimics the real vessel herself.

As to determining the height of her coppering, Glory was originally covered with yellow metal up to 22' from her Keel. I ran calculations. At 1:72nd scale, 22' becomes 3 5/8th". 

Thanks Rich as always. Im glad you like it so far. Many thanks for coppering calculation i will run pencil  line tomorrow. What do You mean by interior ? Deck profile or that opening interior? V. 

Continuation....

Now i would like to determine Cooper line...as i Will go Down with wider planks but i need to draw the plan first as if hlave to  taper at the bow a bit. I hope Cooper line would cover what IS done because im out of thin planks but plenty  glue at disposal hope you enjoy. Did some prelinary sanding on stern but i Will have to take a bit more as shloud be rounder i guess 

Thanks for any comment thought....V. 

9 hours ago, gak1965 said:

Thank you all for the compliments. I've added the topgallant rail. I added in a couple of extra ribs by where the entry ports sit to stabilize the bulwarks, and then cut open the entry ports. 

 

I then added the side boards on the entry ports and added started putting the topgallant rail on. The aft section was carved out of a section from a 1/16 by 4 by 24 inch basswood, the rest were made directly from 1/16 by 1/8 basswood strips, The section from the stern to the entry ports required no pre-bending, but I soaked and pre-bent the sections from the entry ports to the forecastle and the sections over the forecastle. After they dried, I stained and attached them in place. Some photos below:

 

 

Incidentally, the piece of wood behind the aft most coaming is one of the side boards that I dropped, and could not find and had to remake. After taking these pictures and noticing it, I removed it.

 

Next, one more coaming for the after deckhouse on the main deck and then it is time to start putting on copper/muntz plates.

 

Thanks again for looking in.

 

George K.

very nice with rail George. now Im looking fwd to copper plates installation process. 

V. 

16 hours ago, gak1965 said:

Looking great, particularly how smooth the planks are going on. Looks like your fairing was basically perfect!

 

Looking forward to the next installment!

 

George K

Thanks George, frankly so far I am surprised myself in that regard, but its just tiny portion covered so far. fingers crossed  V. 

27 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir, planking looks very nice, I love how Glory's beautiful lines are emerging from her bulkheads. From your glue supply situation, it sounds like you may need to invest in major bulk purchases! That or buy your own glue factory.

Haha thanks much Rich. fingers crossed though. Well one day i guess i need to buy whole box of them  . V. 

16 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

I hate when I run out of supplies during a crucial build

thx Rob Rich - exactly! nothing pisses me more than this. i used almost each drop left and than i said few words not worth mentioning...now ordered 5 bottles!  but having rest till monday. so no popcorn till than.   so now i have wood but cant work . well its getting lovely weather so weekend will be swimming in nearby lake. i wish i made suxh progress Rob as I like idea we continue more less from same point as its useful when being discussed at one time...after i reach copper line i intend  to use wider planks to get speed.  have good weekend folks  

...One thing i hate most is running out of glue when work goes seamlesvperfectly. :(( 

Its busy at Boston shipyard...:)) After instaloing plank line 1 oneust  Always check if planks run smoothly alongside...its so rewarding after year of preparations to se those elegantnt Lines rising from the ASH...

Thanks for looking in etc...

16 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir, gotta say I seriously dig those 70s 3D vibes I got from that wooden dowel coming right out of my phone! Far out, man, far out. Anyhow, all silliness aside, I just have to echo Rob, wow beautiful work on your Bowsprit. I love the look of your iron bands. An article I read about the 90s Constisution restoration showed how the metal bands were put on hot and then cold water would be poured on them to rapidly cool and permanently shrink them down for tighter fit.

Since you're not fully satisfied with your Bowsprit Bees, I figured I'd toss in my 2c to help (hopefully not annoy) you. If you look closely at the front and rear angle of the devices, which appear to be wooden to me, the edge isn't 90 degrees to itself but actually angled to be parallel with the Cap and Bands. Rob can correct me if I'm wrong but it appears other than sheeve holes, the rest is probably solid wood.

Thanks Rich i didnt know its wooden. Will check into that. Yes, aplying hot  braces must hlave Been something ...V. 

12 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Snug Harbor Johnny, Rob should definitely get a write up in the Modeler's forum. Something to really give him a swelled head, you know, like Duncan MacLean used to do? For, like every Clipper Ship that slid down the Ways. Superlative! Incredible! The bestest, fastest ever! Uncanny design! Nothing will beat it!! (never mind he just said precisely the same thing at last month's launch!)

Honestly though, it's reassuring to know Rob's little group is getting noticed. On that note, I would also strongly encourage everyone to be ready to pre-order Michael Mejeld's incredible 3rd publication on our favorite topic "GLORY of the SEAS". It's going to be titled "Down East Captain." 

Maybe if we all do a group order, we might be able to score early autographed copies as well!

now i know ahead what santa ( miSelf) brings me this year    

3 hours ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

  Ach so ... Ausgezeichnet !!  Something useful for most any late clipper (and earlier).  On small models I used to tie a stay and then continue it, but on large enough models something that looks like a bee or sheave is in order.  I too have much to learn.  BTW, the 'Glory' postings have been of great interest to many and are definitely among the 'hot' topics on the forum. Bravo!

I am also happy glory as ship grabbed interest and is noticed by wider audience here on MSW! 

12 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Super job Vlad  getting the banding done was wonderful...did you use brass or copper...or something else?

 Love the topmast stay sheave too.

 

Rob

Thanks Rob i burnished brass . Matt and glow IT gives IS unsurpassesld by anything I think.  Its almost as original and work with IT IS perfect as not losing color.  I Will redo sheaver cover i think as should be a tad  bit smaller and more precisely Made bent under angle not ať 90 degrees. Than i would be Happy. Now if planks come tomorrow party IS on