Vladimir_Wairoa

8 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

It almost seems beyond comprehension that anyone could arrive at any other conclusion then what we arrived at.    The rub of the inconsistency lys in the fact we used 3 heads and we bounced ideas and observations off one another.  Ron with all his years of experience simply had himself (though that in of itself is significant).  It still did not allow for a peer review.  I think, if for no other reason, we had the advantage of numbers.  Not to mention the original author himself,  Mike Mjelde.   I’m satisfied with my representation, based upon our conclusions,  In spite of the current apparent mischaracterization.

This is very well observed and thought out Rob. 

9 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir my friend, after seeing how the actual "Cutty Sark" Museum, Greenwich, England has requested the honor of placing your massive 1:24th Clipper "Cutty Sark" for public display, I have no doubt you will give Rob quite a "run for the money!" Just remember too, especially in modeling at this fine level of meticulous accuracy, entirely scratch building from self developed ship's lines, sometimes slow & steady wins the race too. .

Rich allow me to refrain from racing narrative.  it was meant like humor, im not a man of competing in this hobby at all.  besides, i cant compete with Robs building  ability not speaking of american composite masts sails etc so its pointless topic. yes i was surprised to see email after 1+ year , but unfortunately i dont have ship nor track record of it atm, but hopefully person i sold model to... this is vaguely offtopic but here it go....

even If i had the ship and i would certainly donated it to museum i assume it would cost me a fortune  even to deliver it to them ( due to shipping over size etc) ando there would have to be mutual agreement on shipment and tremendoul liking from their side to have it  nevertheless, its a fair bit of satisfaction for model builder to get such email for sure i never dreamed of when building it. sepaking of- its far from standard or perfection with planking etc...but sum up  seemes that cathegorical rigorous fashion of building and laying all planks as shipwrights do is not necesarrily needed to get reaponse from museum ...  lesson learnt. i remember i just put all my love to that vessel fro 1 year of my life . and photos are to stay  forever here at msw  so i will try to point her to person owing ship now. and now pls lets back to Glory.  

On 7/9/2021 at 11:30 PM, rwiederrich said:

To finish things off for the day....I painted a coat of latex over the entire hull and I will again begin to sand and finish the hull some more.

It's a never ending cycle of sanding and filling...and sanding and filling.

 

I'll let this dry and then begin the process all over again....and finish up the stern and add the starboard planksheer and monkey rail trim.

 

I'll tackle the starboard naval hood and scrollwork after that.

 

Rob

Rob! youre quick. main rail is beautifuly crafted.  we are just staring at what youve acxomplished now i woudl sell this one damn glorious Glory of the Seas with all her cargo fat belly glory and gracious clipper entrance / end. As i see correctly only monkey rail is to be fitted and you have her. 

I also believe its overhang George. cant be otherwise. V .

1 hour ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, recovery progress is continuing to be the toughest of my life but I am slowly, determinedly improving. I also want to admit Rob that I am truly humbled by your generous compliment. I had no idea that you held my viewpoint with such high regard. Meanwhile, I personally continue to be in awe of your rapid, yet beautifully accurate modeling skills. Such careful attention to small details like the multiple moldings of Glory will result in what I am now convinced will be the most impressively accurate miniature of "GLORY of the SEAS" ever produced so far. Lacking anywheres near the modeling skills of either you or Vladimir, I want to only act as a guide to assist you both in realizing your objectives to achieve the most accurate reproductions possible. It has been the thrill of a lifetime to collaborate with other fans of Donald McKay's incredibly beautiful Clipper Ships, especially being able to communicate with one of my favorite Maritime authors as well.

So It's damnably frustrating to be sidelined by my slow recovery, especially since I feel an even greater sense of serious urgency to redo accurate lines of "GLORY of the SEAS" to finally do her true justice.

After doggedly pursuing real genuine faithful reinterpretation of Donald McKay's last glorious Clipper Ship for just over twelve and a half years now, I refuse to accept seeing another set of unfortunately crappy lines be published that do McKay's brilliance such an injustice.

What we have learned from over a year's worth of intense study and exhaustive evaluation of practically every inch of McKay's longest lived merchant vessel has been so encouraging and enlightening. Our mutual approach has consistently relied on precise, scientific, measured investigation of every incredibly clear image so generously shared by author Michael Mjelde. I personally am firmly convinced that what Donald McKay accomplished in his final effort was the culmination of his decades of single minded pursuit of excellence in creating a very swift merchant vessel with an extremely sharp Clipper Ship entrance and exit coupled with an enormous capacity for storage as well. Remember this amazingly durable Clipper was the very last vessel to accomplish the arduous Cape Horn journey from New York to San Francisco in under 100 days (1873-74 in 96 days - Pacific Marine Review). She also still holds the record for travelling from San Francisco, California to Sydney, Australia in 35 days, a feat accomplished despite poor vessel condition, as the Ship herself was crank due to insufficient ballast. With a strong beam wind Glory was practically on her beam ends. As a result the crew had to send down her stunsail booms as well as royal yards. Yet despite undesirable vessel condition, she sailed with very favorable wind and weather conditions (Pacific Marine Review). Now it's time to pull all that intense detailed research together into one coherent whole and produce a coherent blueprint of what she truly looked like.

Wishing you steady recovery progress indeed Rich, i hope you can get some amusement from our friendly racing with Rob :)). Just so you know, it echoed again in my head when fairing a bulkheads that I have to be more precise as Rich wouldnt like to see some bumps etc...you see how effect those hours in front of computer had thru spring ;)....

14 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Ron Haug's proposed new line impressions for Donald McKay's Clipper Ship "GLORY of the SEAS" as sent to Rob and I a few days ago. Ron told Mike that in this design, he believes that somehow McKay has "drifted back to his old Packet Ship days of the 1830s even with the stem" with this design. 

Honestly, I'm personally very sad to say "here we go again." My impressions of Shipwright Ron Haug's lines are that he either never saw the incredibly detailed photos Michael Mjelde's shared with us or he doesn't see the same svelte vessel we see. Our past year's collaborative effort has led me to hope for so much more than... this. While this group has been concentrating on reconstructing Glory's true form for about a year, my own journey of discovering Donald McKay's last Clipper Ship has now been just over a dozen. I don't know how Mike will react but as I've always consistently said, my first loyalty is to the memory of Donald McKay and his lovely vessel. Mr McKay deserves better.....

Hm, frankly im not overenthusiastic.Looks like little moofted Michaels profile, with all whats been already said...extreme stern rise  with all consequences for stern shape etc..

13 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

While working the hull....it just pothered me.  It appears the bulkheads still needed filling in and I must have missed it...but once I primed and sanded...it became clear to me that further filling was needed.  the aft 1/4 to the fantail is spot on.but slightly forward of amidships..forward to the forkastle, there still is a depression.  Kinda like the hull loses its fullness.   So I applied more filler to compensate for the error.

You are still detailist and perfectionist Rob :)). Fantastic moldings lines around.  

Lovely work Frank. 

gorgeous Mike. 

offtopic. this is kind of nice. Royal museum greenwich contacted me about my 1:24 model of cutty sark for exposition  . well - i dont have it anymore 😕 

Now finally some 3 D instalations check - hoods...Im pleasantly surprised how they fit in right  from our drawing. ....

3 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

She's looking smart.  You've done such good work up to this point...watching her take shape with your planking will be a great treat.

 

Rob

Thanks Rob, its been hell of a work I  would say. We will see soon how good that work was i guess, well lets cross the fingers

 plank 1 guide established. 

Today I attached temporary square plank to serve as a guide for forst plank. It follows sheerline / waterway, i simply attached by tiny wire stuck thru plank. Line ends iest where hood moldibg follows. I updated knightheads extensively and first bulkhead so the planks meet rabbetline smoothly , and i pushed upper half of knightheads slightly back. Tomorrow I  plan makijg temporary bowsprit to hold knightheads firm in place and finish portside plank guide. Awaiting planks by end of this week i cant wait laying first planks. Fingers crossed folks. Big thank for whatever observation you may have.Vlad

just  a headup. Seems im almost done with preparations, although there is some window or maybe cargo opening at the side of ship , i will have to make a coamings for it prior planking i guess. Will have to determine where it exactly is. but anyway, 

We got some unberable sunshine lately thus i know 38 celsius is somwhow funmy for US citizens, i almost fainted what Rich wrote how hot it was there. My god. 

So i will sneak into my cool  workshop and already irdered first batch of planks. I plan to lay first swction of non tapered one probably 10 pieces , 5 mm wide 1.5 mm thick, and from there i plan lining up a plan how to continue. Im aprentice on Chuck winchelsea here so hopefully i learned  a bit or two there lets fun begin . Looks like she will be in state of  the famous launch state photography untill this christmas,  :)) 

19 hours ago, Mark P said:

Good Evening Vladimir;

 

I am glad to see that you are putting what you learned with your Cutty Sark to good use in a new model. At a smaller scale, too, so it will be easier to handle. 

 

It's all taking shape nicely, keep up the good work; I will watch with great interest. I wish you much joy from the building, and even more joy looking at the completed model for many years to come. 

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

Thanks Mark. 

13 hours ago, gak1965 said:

 

I think she looks great so far. And I agree with everyone that you do what is going to please you. Yes, we all strive for accuracy, but by definition any model is a simplification and it's also an art form; there is always something of each of us in what we build. I've always painted, perhaps because I started with plastic, but I think it is more likely to be a desire to see something as it is, particularly for ships like this that aren't with us anymore. So, for me, maybe it is a desire to see something from the past - only you know what drives you.

 

Keep it up. I find it incredibly inspiring (and I'm pretty confident that lots of others do as well). Your work is helping me get the confidence to start my own scratch build plans.

 

Regards,

George K

much appreciated comment George. true in it. im lucky you guys eye it from time to time as everyone is helping a lot .

Thanks a lot

Vlad

beautiful Steve. 

20 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

Vlad,

 

You are doing a great job building a model of a handsome ship.

 

If I may, I would like to weigh in on the paint/ natural wood subject.  In my opinion different finishes look better on different types of models.  For example,  a clear wood finish definitely is a must for a 17th-18th Century Dockyard Model.  Likewise, Ed Tosti’s exposed framing with it’s natural wood finish produced striking results for his Young America model.

 

On the other hand, I believe that fully planked models of these large mid Nineteenth Century sailing vessels look much better painted.  The sailing ships built during the last 75 or so years of the age of sail were powerful vessels that made fast passages by their ability to carry sail in a blow.  An unpainted models these can look like toys instead of miniatures of powerful sailing vessels.

 

OK, enough of my opinion.  You’re the master shipwright here.  Enjoy what you are doing, and I’m sure that you will achieve stunning results.

 

Roger 

Thanks for interesting points Roger, I feel too that painted will hopefully bring her charm she deserves. well im not that good as some lines are atill not perfect looking at photogrphs but we all agree that as much as preparation si tiresome and boring its probably most important thing for planking and planking is important as hell . skpeaking  of, this is still my first build of american clipper so it is double exciting for me.  Im eyeing  build of Other folks here  who are cureently building model shipways flying fish, which is very  helpful to me as It is even more helpful than looking at plan. I also think that planking will not go to that perfection that i would like to keep it natural wood i assume some filler will be necessary so i firmly decided on painting .  to some point i think unpainted would also look very blossoming if done extremely right and using fine woods.  V. 

20 hours ago, mbp521 said:

Vlad, 

 

Even with all the trials you are facing so far, she is still looking good. Besides, has there ever been a scratch build that has ever gone smoothly? With your skills though I’m sure they will not be much of a problem for you. 
 

-Brian

Thanks a lot for encouragement Brian. Well rather not sepaking of my skills as those are mediocre at most, but i do appreciate the support. it really helps.V. 

On 7/2/2021 at 2:41 PM, rwiederrich said:

Wonderful work Vlad.  You are paying great attention to the nightsheads and the sterns qualities.  Super.

We definitely approach construction differently.  You stick more with the traditional approach...where I slap it together.

 

It's easy to imagine a technique or a way you wish to go or do...but then again actually translating that into reality can be the biggest challenge. (Either one doesn't know what they are doing, or they lack the necessary disciplined skill).

 

I've made so many mistakes and made far too many assumptions already.  But I plug away, knowing that a glue or paint or even smoke and mirrors will cover up my many trespasses.

 

I look forward to your planking and am excited to see your technique

 

(A Special Note:).......I chose the smaller scale, because within it, I can hide(mistakes), but I can also disguise details...or even omit some, without their lack of presence ever being noticed.  Your extremely large Cutty, did not afford you the option of (Omitting) any details.  this is probably the greatest reason why I cower behind a smaller scale.  I can convince myself I'm doing a good job, while excusing of my sins. 

 

You're doing a great job.

 

Rob

You all have great remarks very to the point Rob. I see you as a master of smaller scales and yes  I feel i will have to go thru more obstacles  following exact plan parhs but still, i have time. i would not going to plank probably until I had a bender as it will be impossible not to destroy stem and rabbet line with 2 mm planks. I have to check planks first how they fit both to the rabbet and around knightheads. seeing Richs remark I plan to fit in false bowsprit when planking so knightheads are supported and wont break. i atart liking idea i am quite following exact ship building which is educationa land enlightening at some point as well. happy continuation with yours  

Rob you are artisan! i like ornamenatation very much and molding is spot on, at this scale it is so so difficult to achieve what youve  done its fantastic ! V. 

10 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir, like Rob's 1:96th scale efforts your even larger 1:72nd scale  Glory project is progressing beautifully. I'm particularly taken with her lovely counter which now is much more reflective of the actual vessel herself. 

One item which I want to help you refine is the graceful lower curve of Glory's cutwater. Look carefully at the negative space of Glory herself where you overlayed the red lines. It's a continual graceful looping curve going all the way down just beyond her lower Bobstay mount on her prow. The reverse curve of the carved arch can be confusing, as it appears to interfere with that curve but it doesn't, that's an optical illusion. Focus on the edge, you'll see what I mean. Overall, you and Rob both have impressive projects in the works.

Thanks Rich for looking in and caring for this build. I exactly understand what you mean and jus worjing on it knighheads are slighly pushed backwards so curve is the same just little bit offset of main curve. Here is the preparatiin how i out took drawing to the wood... it not yet fastened should it be even more back what you think guys?  . I made it little longer so ut can be cut shorter a also sanded/modeled complete stern deb profile for planks as stern is delicate matter i wanted planks  to follow curves as much ad possible. 

On 6/22/2021 at 11:07 PM, rwiederrich said:

I did take some time yesterday to add the sub deck.  I still need to finish it off and sand it in preparation for the planks.

 

Still working on the final contour of the hull.  will add a bit more filler and do some more sanding.

 

I'm off for holiday for the rest of the week...so I won't be doing much on Glory till next week.

 

Thanks for looking in.

 

Rob

you did spectacular job on stem planking Rob. straight line. I am about to attach knightsheads no process witll be different fingers crossed. V. 

Moving forward. 

Rabbet line carved, stem thinned and  Keel, shoe, stem and sternpost  assembled. 

Issues. Issues. 

Well,  im going to paint her. Definite. Finally moved somewhere. There was myriad of issues with bulkheads i would finally not recommend this unprofessional set of bulkheads  to  novice to deal with so much corrections. So many sanding to set waterway properly. Bumps ups and downs etc. Still  yet I  cant imagine shaping this beautiful vessel i without grand help of this  laser cut set. Anyway  lately i had bad day nothing went ok  but today i moved on  brilliantly. I dont have trained eye but i used help of photography as well. There is no point to continue if those most important design lines like waterway / as base for sheer are not of great smooth natural curvature. There are still minor bumps but i am pretty satisfied . I even continued and made bottom of stern - semieliptical with help of my bible- crothers book. So finally waterway and sheer aftwards are set - next time i will move to bow part and continue with keel. Most difficult work done, yay  still some bulkheads to be faired ..i took some pics to show the result of the lines i did my best to form and sand natural curvature of waterway both horizontal curvature and vertical  deck following pattern....no bending there. I cut it off basswood  and  sanded off. Cant speak how much i value baswood for structural building. I dont know of better wood for it.  Stiff yet Beautiful to cut sand and shape.its made of two planks glued up high together... I feel sorry for Rob he had to go thru this pain as well but looking to his outcome he dealt with it naturally and he has great eye for it for sure. Im still new to american clipper / my first/. Feel free to put any comment advice remark etc...thanks for looking. Vlad. Ps. At this point im slightly derailing from model shipways plan design as i wont install sheerline overstretching out hull , it will be  fair with hull - its only mark for me to lead planks atm . I plan to glue sheerline afterwards flmadeo f different wood anyway...