Thukydides

I have found that the scratch built masts are quite fragile (mostly this is a problem with the yards and booms at the point where they are glued to the mast). I am hoping that once I get the sails in place they will be more durable. Do you have any tips or suggestions to make them a little tougher?

I would then suggest picking something that looks cool and do some research on the ship. I have found just reading about the ship and the people who served on it makes the subject far more interesting than it originally was to me. My current project Perseus was picked simply because I wanted to do a small 6th rate and I like Greek mythology so the name sounded cool to me. However, my interest in her has subsequently grown to be much more than "her name sounds cool."

Log #3: Cutter - Painting the Hull I decided to see if I could do one of the cutters in a style similar to Alert. As I have mentioned elsewhere, I like to use gradients and the placement of shadows next to highlights to increase contrast. Given how small this is, it is not necessary to do a perfect gradient (in fact that is not possible). So I just had to make do with a few different shades of each colour in lines next to each other. As we are at a very small scale there is no need to actually try to reproduce the painted decorations. I simply have to give the illusion of them by putting small blobs of various contrasting colours next to each other. They are vaguely in the shape of the figures from the Marshall painting, but if you look too close the illusion starts to break down. At this time I started adding edge highlights. A similar process was used on the inside of the cutter. Then finally it was a matter of adding the mast and some photo etch ratlines. The model is still relatively fragile and will remain so until I am able to add the sails which will hold all the yards in place rigidly.

Log #2: Cutter - Yards and Base Work has continued on the cutters and I got the masts and yards all finished. I decided to use slightly different rigs on them all add a bit of visual variety. I used a bunch of paintings from the RMG as my reference. The key part I discovered in adding strength to the joints was to file small indents and rough up the surfaces. This allows the super glue to bond better and I am hopeful that though they are still relatively fragile, one I have some of the rope reinforcements, rigging and sails on, it will be a fairly strong construction. Once the mast were done I moved on to the bases. For these I used epoxy putty to form the seascape. I then pushed the models into it to bases to set the position of the cutters on them. I had to make sure that two were tilted starboard and one larboard in line with the positioning of the masts. The models were then removed and the putty allowed to dry. Once dry I primed everything and began painting the bases. I used a combination of a dark blue, a mid blue tone and a turquoise as my three main colours. I wet blended this (all three added to the base and then blended at the edges) to get the desired gradients. Then lighter blue and some selective white was added for foam. Having done this it had a bit to much contrast so I went back over everything with a very light wash of my mid tone to blend the different colours together more. Next up I need to paint the cutters themselves…

That is a lovely planking job

It is interesting how the gun tackles appear to be tied round the cascable. I have seen that a few other places. Also that cleat on the deck and that sideways pin rack like thing attached to the mast are both really interesting. What is the dating of this drawing do you know?

You really do have very clean work. Fantastic.

I assume you want to use this for the thimble. I did do this for the pendants that the topgallant sheets ran through on my Alert build. You can shape them to work as a thimble, but they are not particularly strong and in the end were pretty fiddly. You also have to keep in mind that when you push your tool into each end to bend the sides outwards it stretches the whole thing and so you need to start from a tube smaller than the inner diameter of your thimble. If I had my time back I would just go get brass tube of and bend that outwards or get some 3d printed (they would be really easy to make a 3d model of in CAD). Your model is looking great

They are looking good Alan. Not sure if you are planning on rigging them, but if you are, when it comes time to do the breeching and tackle ropes I found an ordnance stores table from 1794 which lists the size of the breechings, tackles and blocks (including whether single or double blocks were used) for tackles by gun rating of the ship. If you look at my Perseus document I reproduce the most relevant entries in the appendix.

Log #1: Cutter - Masts I was inspired by a recent new member post by @Linus Spjutsberg to take a dive back into wargaming. Doing a bit of research I realized that though the miniatures that come with the official black seas game from Warlord Games are very nice, they had a number of problems. In particular I thought the masting and rigging was often out of scale and I figured that it might be a fun project to see if I could improve on it. See below for an example of the models that come with the starter set. The second issue was that the smaller ships were made at a different scale than the larger vessels. Presumably this was done to make them a bit beefier on the tabletop, but I wanted to have ships that were the correct scale relative to each other. So I found some 3d models from turner miniatures and got a friend to 3d print them for me. Step 1 was to try in see what I could do with the mainmast. Below you can see my first efforts in various stages of completion for the three cutters I am building first. For scale perspective, each of the above squares is 1cm. The mainmast was made from 1/32 in brass rod. This roughly equates to the right size at 1/700. I cut them to length based on the dimensions for Vanguard Model's Alert kit allowing a small bit extra at the bottom for where they insert into the model (A). I then filled the top 5mm into a square (C) and glued the topmast to this section (B). The topmast was made from 0.02 in rod sanded down to gradually reduce to 0.015 in. This was slightly overscale, but one of the main challenges with this build is balancing accuracy with durability. I need to be able to handle these on the tabletop. The trestletree (D) was made by using some fine wire I had on hand (about 0.01 in thick) to make the framework. The stop to hold the main boom (E) was made by sliding an Amati copper eyebolt leftover from my Alert build onto the mainmast and gluing it in place. Once the glue dried I cut off the front part leaving only the semicircle piece at the back of the mast. And here is the current state of affairs. I have also added the boom which again I made slightly oversized using 1/32 rod thinning it down to about 0.02 in at the front. My biggest problem at the moment is figuring how best to secure the driver to the upper part of the mast in such a way that it is not too fragile. I have some ideas, but more on this next time.

Welcome to my build log for documenting progress on my semi-scratch builds for Napoleonic Era vessels for wargaming. These miniatures are designed to work with Black Seas by Warlord Game, though I am already planning on doing some homebrew rules to add a bit more realism and variety to the ships. Related Threads & Resources Black Seas Game Demonstration videos Table of Contents Log #1: Cutter - Masts Log #2: Cutter - Yards & Base Log #3: Cutter - Painting the Hull Log #4: Cutter - Rigging & Crew Log #5: Cutter - Sails Log #6: Cutter - Flags, Anchors & the Sea

Looking great. Yes getting the knots right on all of these tiny blocks can be very fiddly.

This is very cool. Good luck, I will be following along.

Welcome aboard. These are some very cool models.

Looking good. I used a similar method rigging as I went up. Your decision to do as much of the rigging off model as you can is very wise. One thing you might want to consider is how much the lower yards will get in the way when you are doing the upper shrouds. You might want to put the topmasts in place before putting the yards on. Where the ratlines for the shrouds are really fiddly, you may risk catching the yards. Just a thought.

I am with Alan on this one. I think you should just remake it. Also as you said it is better to not add things that stick out until you are completely ready for them. I like to only put the lower masts in, then rig them, then proceed to the topmasts, then rig them etc...

Great job Rob, you should be proud of her.

Welcome to MSW. Good luck on your dory.

That is a nice looking planking job

Well done, she is a lovely model.

Fantastic work Mustafa. She is really coming together now.

Good luck, I will be following along. I assume you got this info from Winfield. I am not sure I trust him on this one in any case it is certainly missing some info. The Sphinx class were ordered to be modified to include 8 12-pdr carronades in 1779, but the actual implementation was a bit more varied. The earliest Ariadne could have been given them is 1780, but at the very least Ariadne was equipped with 8 carronades in 1782 as she appears on the Middleton list (see the appendix of my Perseus draft document). She also appears on a 1793 list (which is much smaller as many ships had gotten rid of carronades) showing her still with the 8 12-pdr carronades (again see the appendix). In 1797 there is was a request to replace 4 of the carronades with 4-pdr long guns though it is not clear from the catalog description (I don't have the actual document) if this meant going down to 2 carronades or 4. You could probably make an argument for either and it might be worth your while getting the original document as it shouldn't cost that much (being likely only a few pages). In any case the rating change to a 24 gun ship likely didn't occur till 1797. Edit: if you are getting your info from threedecks.org, I am in the process of revising many of the Sphinx class there so you may see some changes as I get round to making edits. This is actually the survey done before Sphinx's breakup. Though it likely reflects what many of the ships looked like late in their careers. Earlier they tended to only have the quarterdeck built up while the forecastle was left as it originally was. This was true of Perseus at least up until 1790 and may very well have been true of Ariadne. On the question of the figurehead, there is a lines plan for Ariadne, just not digitized. If you have the money it might be worth ordering a digital copy from the RMG as it may very well have the figurehead and decorations on it. If it was me I would give it a shot. https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-83731 If you have any specific questions I am happy to share some of my research with you. I have a lot more done behind the scenes, it is just not yet fully complete and ready for release.

Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions. I have been watching lots of youtube videos and am going to keep practicing. I keep cranking up the tension a little higher and havn’t broken a blade yet. My biggest problem at the moment is going with the grain. I will be cutting along the line fine and then all of a sudden it starts to wander. Yes I have read / heard this a bunch. Like many things practically what this means is harder to get down. I am also still struggling with sometimes when I turn the piece I end up deflecting the blade to the side and don’t realize till when I let go the blade snaps back into the correct position. I suspect like many things this will just require practice. It is less of a problem since I tightened the blade more so maybe even more tension is needed? Just what sort of ping is required is difficult to get down. I use a combination of liquitex and daler rowney inks as that is what I have on hand. I may consider others, but as I am planning to start playing with shades and hues a bit and I already have all the colours I need. I may look into the markers, but in general I prefer the control I have with the liquid ink as I can thin it down (particularly important with the black). I have not tried dye though I have considered it. The worry I have with it is one of control. I have seen you previously mention Frieberg’s leather dye, but as a bunch of my painting is probably going to have to be done. on model, I would be worried about making a mistake. I am going to keep playing with the acrylic ink first to see if I can achieve the effect I want. If not I may consider other options, but at this point I am relatively optimistic that the ink will work. I have gotten some aspects of the finish I want and I think it is mostly just a matter of practice and getting the ratios right. Some inks (particularly the black) need to be thinned down quite a bit to keep them translucent enough to allow my underpainting to show through.

Log #14: Practice Makes Perfect It has been a while since I posted an update mostly because I don’t have much concrete to show. On the research side I have been continuing my work on identifying contemporary paintings / drawings showing the details of pre-bloomfield guns. I have also been working hard at updating and correcting the document and I hope to release a second version with a number of new sections and transcribed primary sources in the coming months. On the modelling side I received a scroll saw for Christmas and have been practicing with it on some cheap 1/4 in basswood I got at my local hardware store. Like anything it is much harder to use than it looks and I want to make sure that I really know what I am doing before I try cutting anything important. Getting the tension right seems to be one of the tricky parts. If anyone has any helpful tips on getting precise cuts I am all ears. Speaking of wood Canada Post finally came through the other day and I received my wood order from @Joe V. This is only the wood for the keel / stem / sternpost / stern framing which will be made of pear. I haven't yet fully nailed down how much and what sizes I will need for the planking etc… I also got some yellow cedar strips as I am considering using it on certain parts of the model. I will need to do some tests to decide exactly how I am going to proceed. You can also see in this photo the beginnings of the build board with the top view of the model glued to it. Finally, I have been doing a number of tests using scrap wood left over from my alert build on painting options. I have been experimenting with the effects I can get with relatively translucent inks. You can see some of my early test below. A lot more tests will need to be done before I am willing to commit to a path, but I think at this point I have an idea of the aesthetic I want to go for. Part of the uncertainty relates to one of the current focuses of my research, did the coppering on Perseus come up to the wales or only the waterline. No clear answers yet, but if anyone has any contemporary sources which talk about the very early coppering that was done by the RN (1775-1780ish) I would love to hear about it. Edit: I made a first attempt at the knee of the head and it doesn't look that great but practice makes perfect. I think next time I am going to try cutting further from the lines and sanding / filing / using my mini chisels to get a better fit.

Joe will do just about any size you want. Just send him an email.