allanyed

Tom If you go to the National Archives, Kew, England website, you can try to do a search or email them. They also have an online tutorial on how to read these old documents as the lettering, wording, punctuation and grammar are not necessarily the same as they are today. They have contracts for such things as ships' boats to rated vessels. As mentioned earlier, the contracts were typically only given to private yards. If you wish to build a model of a vessel built in a King's yard, there is likely no contract. Depending on the time period, these vessels would have been built to the Establishment scantlings for that particular time which are readily available from the 18th century. I do not know of any detailed information on scantlings for the 17th century so have opted for ships with contracts when researching potential 17th century projects. The books by Endsor will have answers to a lot of your questions for the 17th century. Allan

Assuming this is not a pond yacht, but rather a static model, you can go to your local HD or Lowes or any lumber yard and pick up a small piece of poplar for $1 or $2. It can be shaped as easily as basswood. I used this material for a rather complex schooner keel with no problems. As it will be painted using bass wood or poplar should not make any difference in the final appearance. Below is the keel for Boothbay65 before installing and afterwards with painting done. Allan

Don, Do you have CAD software? If you do, and if the station lines on the body plan coincide with a frame, you can trace each station line then loft each frame in between the stations and print them out on separate pages. It requires lots of ink and paper, but something to consider for accuracy. Allan

Paul, CA cannot take shear stress very well so is a bad choice (my opinion only - I know there are proponents of CA who swear by it where as I swear at it) You can drill and use brass rod for pins in addition to wood glue. Rods are available to 0.01 diameter and smaller. I would smear a bit of epoxy on the pins when inserting in the channel and the hull as it will give you working time and is incredibly strong. I would also use carpenters glue on the wood surfaces as it will cure quickly and hold everything tight while the epoxy cures. You mention the channels gluing to the wales. Channels do not typically get attached to the wales but rather would be just below or just above the wales. The photo below of the modern P of B shows that they are not attached to the wales. Allan

Jim STRONGLY suggest you edit your post and remove your email address as you will likely get spammed from outside MSW. Members can send you private messages which will go to your email without divulging your email address or theirs. Allan

On one hand, you can always remove material if you left too much wood but you can't add any. On the other hand, you can cut CLOSE to the line but not quite touch it. Keep in mind that the LINE is the widest point, taking into account the bevel if any so there is a lot of sanding, especially fore and aft where the bevel is severe. How are you transferring the lines from the body plan to the wood? Tracing is not the best way as you can wind up following the grain at times. Printing the futtocks, floors and top timbers onto paper then gluing to the wood works well as you can have each piece run with the grain. Even easier is to print the parts (and number each piece) on label paper. Cut the paper parts out, again, outside the lines, and stick on the pre thicknessed wood then cut them with a scroll saw. Allan

Roger, Based on looking at various information on PVA glues recently, the following is my understanding. The glue thickness is critical to the strength of a joint as much as the clamping pressure. It's a function of how well the joint is prepped and how snug and uniform the joint is held together while it begins to cure. The glue line should be about as thick as a sheet of paper or a LITTLE thinner. Too thin from clamping too tightly will starve the joint and it will be weak. The more the clamping, the weaker the joint. By the same token too much glue will also create a weak joint and the weakness grows with the thickness of the joint. So, as with many things in life, too little or too much are not desirable. Sort of like Goldilocks, it needs to be pretty much just right!! I cannot argue this point scientifically as I am not a chemical engineer but I have never had a piece of pre bent wood separate using PVA and finger pressure to hold the pieces together for 30 seconds to a minute as there is enough initial tack to hold the pieces nicely. Obviously I do not have hundreds of years of history, but as to pieces coming apart so far so good 😀 I recently saw a model that I built in the late 1970s and it looks the same as the day I finished it. By the same token there almost always seems to be a few areas that need coaxing with clamping. Unfortunately it seems these are most often in a position where a stock store bought clamp cannot fit so elastic bands and home made devices come into play. Allan

Huge topic Helli!!! Maybe a bit less daunting if you choose a time period and nationality to work on for a start. For me personally, researching a vessel is as much fun as the build so I look for projects in which I can find a few ships for which I can find a list of their captains, voyages, battles if military, original contracts if built in a private shipyard, and so forth. When Wayne Kempson and I worked on the Euryalus books, we wound up with about 30 pages in the first volume on her history from her build at Buckler's Hard, to her master's log while at Trafalgar, to her proposed duel with an American ship during the War of 1812, to her time as a prison hulk for boys. We even found a series of letters sent from one of her officers to his family while he was aboard and a note from Nelson to the Euryalus' captain at that time. Allan

Tom These are repeats of the above, but considering your time period of interest, I reinforce these for being considered for your library. Others may also apply. The Rigging Of Ships: In The Days Of The Spritsail Topmast, 1600-1720, Anderson, R.C. The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War, 1625-1860 by James Lees NB: I would forget about Rigging Period Ship Models for your particular project, as it is specific to one rate of vessel in one time period in the 18th century. As your interest is 17th century, Richard Endor's books are a must for information from the keel up, including both The Restoration Warship and The Master Shipwrights Secrets. Also consider acquiring a few appropriate original contracts from the same time period once you have selected a ship to build. The following is a portion of page one of an 8 page contract for two fifty gun English ships in 1693. Transcribing these is fun and very challenging project in itself. Allan

Big Creek Per the posts from Dziadeczek and Druxey, you don't need clamps. Pre taper each plank, bend by spiling (see the article here at MSW by David Antscherl) or just using heat as demonstrated by Chuck Passaro in his article on forming the bends and there is no need for clamps. If you still want some security while the glue sets, soft wood blocks and elastic bands as Druxey mentioned is a great way to go. If you are worried about dinging the plank place a piece of felt between the block and plank. And if you still want really good quality and versatile clamps, you are best off making your own. Do a search of Ed Tosti's build logs as he uses his own home made wooden screw clamps and may give some details on making these in the logs. If not, he goes into detail on making these in Volume I of his book on the Naiad. You can make them with throats and jaws as small or large as you want. Allan

Henry It looks to be a mass produced decorator piece from the mid 20th century but seems to be a nice vintage piece that many folks would like to have. Kit makers spend a LOT of time trying to produce something that will result in a good looking and accurate model at a reasonable cost. Their success varies, but they do work hard to get it right yet affordable. I don't think they would be as inaccurate as this model appears to be so I agree with Wefalck's assessment. Allan

Welcome aboard Mike. Is this the origin of the screen name? Allan

Bonjour Mic!!! Welcome to MSW. It will be interesting to follow a build based on M. Boudriot's work. I hope you will start a build log for us to follow. Allan

Dave, I suppose the swifters could have a cut splice or individual eye splices, but Lees states that each swifter, which would be the aft most shroud, would have an eye splice (page 42 of Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War). Also note that the ratlines do not necessarily extend aft to the swifter. If she was rigged as other naval vessels, after 1773 the first six rat ratlines and the upper six start from the second shroud from forward and finished at the second shroud from aft, not extending to the swifter. (Page 44) Allan

Dave, The list I gave is if all of these lines are on the ship. Sorry, but I really have no idea which of these would be on a collier, be it as merchant built or converted to RN service so I cannot say if the kit drawings are correct or not. If anyone here at MSW knows for sure that would be great, but it may come down to trust that the Amati folks did a thorough research into the rigging that is likely to have been used, including block and line sizes, and so forth. Two of the things that seems to stand out for some kits are that the blocks looking nothing like they really looked and belaying pins that are larger than bowling ten pins if they were full scale. I don't know if that is the case for Amati kits but maybe something to check before installing. Allan

Not sure which lines are appropriate for Bounty, but the general order would be Burton Pendants Shrouds, starting with starboard pair, then port pair, then starboard, etc Swifter Stbd, (if odd number of shrouds eye spliced) Swifter port (if odd number of shrouds eye spliced) Breast back stay eye spliced stbd Breast back stay eye spliced port standing back stay stbd standing backstay port fore topmast preventer stay fore topmast stay These go on after the trestle trees, cross trees, bolsters, cheeks etc are assembled and before the topmasts are put in place. They can be done before the mast is stepped but I have never had a problem rigging these after the lower mast is stepped. Allan

You can also make pins from brass rod then round one or both ends with a cup burr. The shank will be the same diameter as the head, but will be inside the part so unseen. Allan

GK Not sure this will help but check out the New England Stonington Dragger build log by Fried Clams which has a lot of small parts including nuts and bolts. Model railroad parts suppliers should also be a help. Allan

Printing on raw silkspan is not a great idea as it bleeds through. Of course if you want to print something that has a mirror image on the opposite side this is not a bad way to go. For numbers and letters, not so good. If the silkspan is painted with a good quality tubed acrylic paint the bleed through is prevented. The silkspan should first be taped to a frame with a filler plug inside the frame. Wet the span, remove the plug and let it dry and shrink. Put the plug back in place and paint. I like to mix the paint about 2 parts paint to 1 part water and apply two or three coats. Once it is dry and shrinks again, you can draw the sail shape with a pencil, tape it to a sheet of paper and print on your printer. If the sail is larger than an 8.5X11 for US printers, take some scrap painted span and tape it to a sheet of paper and print the numbers. Wet the numbered piece with matte medium and apply to the sail. The medium stays wet for a while so you have plenty of time to adjust it on the sail. Allan

Welcome aboard!!! For the fishing vessels, I assume you are in contact with the museum regarding plans that they may have. I have had luck in the past getting copies of plans from boat yards as well as long as I committed to not building a full size vessel from them. Looking forward to your build!! Lang may yer lum reek Allan

Eberhard, I agree this book is a must for anyone wanting to have accurate information on ships' boats, but in my copy, page 128 the last page of the book and part of the index??? There are photos of two cutters and a launch stowed on a ship of 1800 and a pinnace on the Lowestoffe (1761) on page 48 of my copy of this great book. Allan

Couple pics as she is today, nearly ready to be packed up and shipped. Top mast hoops are being remade and need to go on and a few little odds and ends.

Hi Dave, This was addressed in some detail here at MSW a month or so ago. I don't remember the subject name or if a consensus was reached on how the boats were tied down, but you should be able to find the thread using the search box. You may find the following boat information interesting even though your kit only gave you one boat. Keep in mind that if the RN fitted her as they did her rated ships or even her sloops, Bounty would likely have had three boats. Per W.E. May on similar sized vessels, these could have been the launch (which is the type used by Bligh and his 18 sailors,) a pinnace or possibly a cutter over 20 feet, and a 16foot or 18 foot cutter. According to an article by the Pitcairn Islands Study Center of the Pacific Union College, Bounty had a launch, a cutter, and a jolly boat. The term jolly boat was mainly used for small light weight boats of the 17th century but came back into use in the latter part of the 18th century and was used to describe small boats of 16 feet or 18 feet, probably cutters. (Lavery, Arming and Fitting, p. 223) A bit of contradictory information on boat types to be sure, but at least there seems to be agreement that there should be three boats which would complicate your concern on how they are tied down. Allan

Looking at some assumptions.... 91 feet over all, thus about 90 frames if on 12 inch center, including the space between frames which may be as much as 2" I have never seen framing disposition drawings of a collier but surely there was some space between many if not all of the frames. If the frames are made out of scale at 12", there would either be no room for the space between frames in order to wind up at 91 feet, or, if the 2" space is maintained with the 12" frames, the hull would be about 15 feet too long which would lead to problems in making the keel the correct length, beam locations, deck furniture and mast locations. Even if the space was cut down to 1" the hull would still be over 7 feet too long. 5.3mm (.208") is not so hard to do but not with just a saw. You can cut boards to something more than 5.3mm then use a thickness sander or carefully set a planer to yield the thickness you want. Same thing can be done when cutting wood for things such as beams, bottom planking, wales, quickwork, deck planks and so forth. Allan

Dan, I checked a couple articles and there seems to be a consensus on a few things such as using tight weave (high thread count) cotton, fabric paint or acrylics with fabric medium added, prewashing to make sure any sizing from the factory is removed and a few more. Do a search for "painting cloth" and you will get some good information on freehand and stencil type applications. One pretty complete article is at https://www.thesprucecrafts.com/fabric-painting-tips-2578184 Allan