allanyed
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Everything posted by allanyed
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Thank you very much for the link Cap. From what I read on the Mystic site Elsie was 124 feet so scantlings may be quite different than the L. A. Dunton. I think the Ernestina may be closer regarding scantlings. Either way, both are great sources and I have not yet built either Elsie or Dunton so fun awaits. Personally I would lean towards the latter as it has not been done to death like Bluenose and Elsie. I envy you as you are so fortunate to have had such a great opportunity. Hope you saved some of the scrap wood and incorporate it into your model. I did that with a piece of keel I pulled from a scrap heap in St. Michaels where they were rebuilding skipjacks and used it for a little of the planking and the keel. Allan -
drilling hole through wire
allanyed replied to BETAQDAVE's topic in Metal Work, Soldering and Metal Fittings
A milling machine is the only way I have been able to do this kind of operation with a high degree of success. If it is as small as yours I chuck the bit with about a mm protruding from the chuck so it will not flex. If the hole needs to be deeper, I at least get the center mark where it should be then can bring the bit out further. I love my Sherline, so a good choice based on my own experience, limited as it is. I know that you know, but for others that may not have had the experience, HIGH quality bits are a must. Allan -
Funniest thing I have heard in a while😀 Members sometimes disagree with each other over points here and there, but we all love this hobby and I for one am very happy to learn from every single member and/or be corrected if I got something wrong. Going back 50+ years ago I was taught by one of my first bosses that even the newest member of our team can often do something better than anyone else and as a supervisor it was my job to find out what that was and utilize that skill for the betterment of all of us. Same goes for this hobby. Many of us have decades of experience but we often learn a new trick or idea from even the novices thanks to our membership's willingness to help each other. But I digress.....
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Looking really good! Question, hope that is OK. Did the kit give instructions for such a large gap between the keelson and four strakes of footwaling? Seems like a rower could get his foot stuck between these. I don't know the width of the model so hard to scale this gap, but if the breadth is about 9' ( 2.25" at scale) the gap looks to be around 4" (0.08"). I think the gap would be no more than what the openings on a grating would be, about 2.5" Even so, your model looks super and the workmanship is neatly done. Probably just a terminology thing, but I do not see any of the rails that you mention. You might find the attached useful for future boat builds. These boat scantlings can be found in Scantlings of the Royal Navy which are a transcription of scantlings given in W.E. May's book The Boats of Men of War, Again, very neatly done work, kudos!! AllanBoat Scantlings 1-28-14.pdf
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Who uses nails?
allanyed replied to bigcreekdad's topic in Building, Framing, Planking and plating a ships hull and deck
This is less than 2" full scale at 1:48 so sounds spot on. Do you know if there are smaller screws? For smaller scales such as 1:64 that will leave a hole way over scale. Are the screws you are using wood screws or?? Can you post a pic, this sounds like a solution for many builders? Sorry for all the questions😕 Thanks Vaddoc! Allan -
Are these available for sale from Mystic or can they be found elsewhere. The photos you posted are fantastic and the plans look really good. Would love to get a set into my own archives for the next schooner project. IF you are thinking of building a model of her, while it is a huge pain in the neck to use, Chapelle's American Fishing Schooners should be very useful. Bluenose (1921) and L.A. Dunton (1923) are contemporaries in time so you are probably right that contemporary information on Bluenose might be very useful. The scantlings may be quite different as the lengths that I could find appear to be very different at 104 feet and 143 feet. The Ernestina (nee Effie M. Morrisey) may be more useful as she was 112 feet and there are very detailed drawings and photos in the Library of Congress downloadable for free. https://www.loc.gov/resource/hhh.ma1719.sheet?st=gallery and https://www.loc.gov/resource/hhh.ma1719.photos?st=gallery Allan
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It takes most builders years to reach higher and higher skill levels, but as it is an ongoing process I do not understand why these would be separate goals? Is there an example where we would choose a subject we like but are then unable to use this choice to start or continue to develop modeling skills as well? Inquiring minds and so on😀 Allan
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Who uses nails?
allanyed replied to bigcreekdad's topic in Building, Framing, Planking and plating a ships hull and deck
Assuming you plan to leave the nails in place, the use of metal fastenings depends on the ship/nation/era. Scale also matters. I am pretty sure treenails made of wood were more common than metal fasteners in the age of sail but at scales smaller than about 1:48, even wooden treenails tend to look oversized. On the real ships, they were near invisible. There are a number of beautiful French models by Bernard Frolich where he used brass nails but only AFTER the planks are glued in place. He is explicit that the heads must all be filed off which is no easy task. If there are not, they will be totally out of scale. Regarding holding planks in place while the glue dries, if the planks are properly pre-shaped by spiling or hot edge bending, they should should hold with PVA in less than a minute, or even less with CA which some folks prefer. If you do nail them, be sure they are not fully hammered home so you can pull them out easily unless you prefer to file the heads off. You can then rub a little PVA in the holes a few at a time and then sand the hull while the glue is wet which will fill the holes with sanding dust and replicate treenails. Allan -
Nice model! For the future, the painted bottom is usually from the water line down, the top being parallel to the ground and it is easy to do. Mark the line then tape along the line with pinstriping tape. This is pretty narrow so I then add a strip of painter's tape as well. Once the tape is on tight, spray or hand paint a clear poly or some such. Once dry this will seal the edge of the tape to minimize bleed through when you paint the bottom. You can then hand paint (or spray if you cover the model where you don't want any paint.) Example is below Allan
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Also consider using the book for the detail work as well as the contemporary high res drawings available on Wiki Commons from RMG to compare with whatever kit you choose. Plans J2027, 2028 and 2029 for starters. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:HMAV_Bounty_(1784) Each is over 40MB, so very clear. Allan
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If you are speaking about planking actually I find it much easier to bend, including edge bending, than boxwood, pear, and other harder species. It is easier to work if pre-bent with heat. If soaked for some hours and then bent and heated it is even easier. Have you watched the four You Tube videos by Chuck Passaro on proper planking techniques? He shows how to taper the breadth of the planks at each bulkhead or frame and how to pre-bend them so there is little or no bending of the plank on the model itself. Allan
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Christian, are you referring to Vanguards of Empire or Great Ships of the Armada Era by Peter Kirsch. I did wind up purchasing the latter and it is quite informative. Allan
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The deck of your model looks great! I might be missing something here but why do you want to oil the deck? Glue will not bond well to oiled wood and if you use another finish such as a varnish or other similar product the glue will bond to the finish and not penetrate the wood. You can add your items first then apply a finish such as a varnish or poly (or oil) or other material that you want to use with a brush so you do not coat anything you do not want coated. If it is an eye or horse or something like that it does not matter as you will be drilling through the finish and into the wood. To which items are you referring that might be problematic? Allan
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Great photo and thank you for your sentiment for the holidays. A Merry Christmas to you and a great 2024. Allan
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WELCOME TO MSW!!! What size are the cases? Sounds like a good quality regular saw from a hardware would suit, but how are you going to move it around when you change ships? Maybe better off with a mini. Byrnes is considered by all that have used one as being the best but I am not sure on delivery since Jim passed away a few weeks ago. The business is still going, but you might want to give them a call to see what the status is on getting one if that turns out to be your choice. Remember that the blades are small compared to a full size table saw so you are somewhat limited on the lumber size it can handle. Allan
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Thanks for sharing your build! Just a thought................. there is a build of the Portland 1770 that shows something I had not seen before and might serve well for all builds, kit or scratch. The location/breadth of the planks are laser marked on every bulkhead. It would probably be easier for kits as most are now laser cut whereas scratch is still more the old fashioned way. This should make it much easier for the builder to shape the breadth of the planks at each bulkhead so they are consistent from keel to top timber rather than having some planks very narrow and some very broad at any given bulkhead. https://modelshipworld.com/topic/34684-hms-portland-1770-by-scrubbyj427-148-4th-rate-50-gun-ship/ Allan
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Stepping the mast with a plum bob...two questions.
allanyed replied to HardeeHarHar's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
I too like that idea as long as the waterline of the model is sitting perfectly horizontal. Allan -
Hi Gregory, I am taking your comment in good spirit.😀 I merely passed on what I found in historian Adrian Caruana's book on English Sea Ordnance volume II, page 386. His CV is most impressive and he was considered the leading authority in the world on English ordnance. It might just be that some others did not do the research. While Caruana states guns less than 32 pounders used pairs of single sheave blocks, I am sure there were exceptions for other large guns such as the 24's on any given ship. In the end nothing is gospel in this hobby of ours but I would rely on the likes of Caruana before the majority of kit makers or others that perhaps have less expertise in this area. Allan
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I totally understand your dilemma but the pic below is a copper plate from the Constitution with nail dents versus rivet bumps. I think the reason Vanguard went with the laser cut circles is that they are much closer to scale (1/4" nail with half inch dents full size) and the larger number of them as on the actual ships. Goodwin has drawings and dimensions of the plates and such in his Construction and Fitting book. Allan
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Welcome back Kenny. Your planking is spot on, kudos!!! The trouble with the frames is that, based on contemporary scantlings for a 30/32 foot long boat, they were moulded only about 2.5 inches at the head and sided about 2.75" (0.05" X 0.057") so difficult to work them to the proper size once the planking is done. With the frames too thick the gunwale that sits on top of the frames will be too large. It was likely about 3.5 broad by 3.75 deep so just covered the head of the frames and upper most strake of planking. Allan
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I am really curious to see what others think this work is valued at. I think 150-200 hours is a good guess. As to what that costs, figure out your hourly rate at work and then you have the cost of labor. If for example you are making $35 per hour the value is upwards of $7,000. Add cost of materials ($100-$150?) she owes you $7,150. Probably won't fly, but I'm not a lawyer. Allan
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This is a great habit!! When you think you have things looking really good take some closeups and look again. Invariably I wind up doing a bit more finishing or sometimes replacements which is for the better. For a first model and such a small scale your work is wonderful. Allan
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I Googled Wiki Commons Bounty and three plans popped up so can be saved in low, medium and high res. Thanks for the lead Gregory! Allan
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Love the sails Tom!!! They look really good overall and far nicer than the out-of-scale sewn cloth sails we see too often. The use of the copper foil is also very nice, but I am curious as to why you chose to have what appears to be big bumps in the photos rather than the indentations they would have had in real life from the small nails used to attach them to the hull. Allan
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Lovely model Maciek! I realize it is probably a kit mistake, not yours, but for the future, small cannon (below 32 pounders) used only single blocks, not doubles on both the running out tackle and train tackle. This is a common error with several kit manufacturers so you are not alone. Nothing wrong with using glue on your sails, it actually might be a better way to go. Sewing will never be to scale at our most common scales just as cloth is usually far out of scale. Just as an FYI, many builders have switched silk span as it is much more realistic looking and no sewing is involved. Again, very nice work. Allan
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