allanyed

Hi Bill What year and nation are the first rate ships you are referencing? This is important as, for example, the Spanish were using swivel guns in the 17th century but the RN did not begin production until about 1721 with 1/2 pounders so early British first rates would have none. Caruana in The History of English Sea Ordnance, Volume II goes into some detail on swivel guns but does not specify the number of them on any given rating. This is just nomenclature, but just as an FYI, there were classes and groups of ships but this generally referred to a specific or general design such as the Artois (38) class. Rates referred to the number of guns and this varied a little over the years as well as from country to country. Allan

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Ship_plans_of_the_Royal_Museums_Greenwich takes you directly to the list of plans they have. About 2200 are low res but over 800 are high res. The drawing size is shown under each plan so you can see quickly which are high resolution and those that are low resolution. The plans are listed alphabetically but is split for some reason. Goes from A to Z for several pages then starts over for many pages. Those in the first group are not repeated in the second group. I downloaded all the high res plans and put them into a file (44gb) by category (100 gun, 90 gun, and so on and so on, plus separate folders for boats, masts etc. ) I added contracts where I could find them and a few low res plans if a particular plan was missing in a set of high res for a given vessel. I would send them to you or post them but at 44gb there is no way to do it unless the mods have some idea. All of this, plus scantlings from the Establishments, The Shipbuilder's Repository, and Steel's Elements and Practices of Naval Architecture will provide you with a wealth of contemporary information. For boats in particular there are sets of scantlings in W.E. May's book The Boats of Men-of-War that are quite useful. All of these scantlings are available in one book from SeaWatch Books for $45. Hope this helps for now and especially for future builds, be they kit or scratch. Allan

Most, if not all of us, feel your pain Hamilton, I know I sure do. Allan

If you study the high res drawings of Bellona 1760 and Dragon 1760 on the Wiki Commons site you can see the wing, deck, and filler transoms so it MIGHT help you decide. It looks like you would have to sand away a lot of material that is already installed but it will be covered in the end. Maybe not worth the effort, but something to consider. Allan

Building kits requires the same thing as scratch building IF accuracy is of any interest, that being, research. There are books based on contemporary data and thousands of contemporary plans, contracts, paintings, and models that can be found on various websites including over 800 high resolution plans at no cost on the Wiki Commons site. Plus, there are a LOT of members here that love the research as much as the build and are a wealth of information if research on your own comes up short. Everyday is a chance to learn something new no matter how much experience we have. Allan

Nice start to your build. You may benefit from looking at the models and plans of launches (the Bounty's jolly boat was rotted through) at RMG that replicate the boat used by Bligh. For example it had two masts that were lug rigged thus there would not be a bow sprit. Allan

This may in fact be the case, but these models are hundreds of years old and many have been repaired, refinished, re-rigged, etc. There could have been damage to the catheads from an incident or vermin and taken off the model. The below photo from James Lees' Masting and Rigging English Ships of War is just one example of such damage. The stem has been eaten away as was at least one of the catheads. Both contemporary models and plans are fantastic sources but I would trust contemporary based as-built plans and even design plans before the models. Allan

The article by David Antscherl on planking in the data base on planking explains lining off as well. https://thenrg.org/resources/Documents/articles/APrimerOnPlanking.pdf To get any of the Passaro vids, just Google Chuck Passaro planking video part 1 or 2,,,, or 3,,,, or 4 Allan

Welcome to MSW Christopher! Regarding your choice of first models,

VERY HAPPY to have you aboard. Welcome to MSW Allan

(The following may be an exaggeration)...... There are a thousand discrepancies when comparing modern plans and contemporary plans, and hundreds between contemporary plans and contemporary models as well. Regarding contemporary models, many have been refurbished/repaired over the past 200 to 300 years so a little care needs to be taken in relying on these gorgeous pieces of art. Common sense is often forgotten so good for you not to ignore it. Allan

As this is only your second kit, the suggestions above about getting a high quality kit are spot on. Maybe try a kit or two that will teach proper build techniques including planking. The 3 model beginner series from Model Shipways or the Syren Medway longboat kit along with spending time studying the tutorials here at MSW in the articles database will make your journey a pleasant one. Allan

The plans may be wrong if the contemporary plan ZAZ7322 in the RMG Collections is correct which shows what I think is the horse above the tiller. Allan

Hi Eberhard, It was introduced to artists paints in the 1960s, Unbleached Titanium (pigment index number PW6 or PW6:1) is a shade of yellow-grey that can be described as being like parchment, suede, or sand. As its name and pigment index number suggests, it is closely related to Titanium White. However, its characteristics are very different and the possibilities it offers in color mixing are unlike any other pigment. Allan

Will there be a stave around which the futtock shrouds ran before being seized to the lower shrouds? Allan

The model looks very nice. There is one thing that looks new for me. Regarding the lower masts I see a rope woolding without the requisite wooden hoops but also what look like iron bands. From James Lees' The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War, page 2, "Iron bands superseded rope wooldings in 1800. They were 3 inches wide" (1.2mm at 1:64) From the photos the bands on the model look to be about 8 or 9 inches ( 3.5mm). As Indefatigable was near the time of transition, would there have been a mix of the types of rings used and a variety of sizes? Allan

Toni, This may be off the wall, but would you consider setting your build aside and get some experience with high quality beginner models such as the 3 part series from Model Shipways designed by David Antscherl and/or the terrific Medway longboat kit by Chuck Passaro at Syren Ship Models. You will learn how to properly plank as well as a lot of other things that will carry over to future more complex builds. Just a thought that may prevent a lot of frustration. If you would rather stay with the kit you already have, the suggestion above to study the planking tutorials as well as the four part You Tube series on proper planking is key. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCWooJ1o3cM Allan

Tim, it really is close to what I am shooting for and Vallejo gets much better reviews than the cheap bottled craft acrylics. I still hesitate to use any bottled paints after spending so much time on the model. I have never had problems with high qual artist tubed acrylics so may stay with that and mix my own. I am wide open to trying new things but this one scares me a little. Any feedback on using this particular paint brand would be welcome. Chuck, very good point. I have not used unbleached t.w. for a while and totally forgot about it. Worth buying a tube and comparing colors. Thanks guys, much appreciated!!!

Sounds right. The below is pretty much what I am aiming for (although maybe a little less yellow) when I get to that point and mix a batch. The trick will be to know what colors to add to a titanium white base. Yellow is obvious but maybe a little something else will be needed. Allan

This is partially correct. "B" is the cross section (looking down) at the point where the arrow indicates, it is not from the top of the mast which would have included the cap. Another common convention would be as below Allan

Welcome to MSW. Had to look up fourteeners, and see that they are mountains over 14,000 feet. Gotta be gorgeous. French horn and bass guitar....... ahhh a man of many talents. IF you get frustrated with your first choice, do look at the three model series designed by David Antscherl from Model Shipways. They will help you develop good habits and explain how planking and other construction details are supposed to be done rather than following make believe practices. Allan

The below is a plan of a 35 foot shallop from RMG. I have never seen the items in question and wonder if these are nothing more than foot rests on which the rowers can plant their feet for more support when rowing. Allan

I reached out to Chris Cerino of the Sultana Education Foundation and he concurs that the John Smith shallop would most likely have been carvel built. To that end when they built the replica (below photo) it was carvel built. How the kit came to be lapstrake is a mystery and based on what has come up so far, may not be right. Further, some interesting things from the Sultana group, 1. the shape of the vessel was inferred largely from the small shallop shown on John Smith's 1612 map of Virginia, which shows an open, double-ended vessel with one mast, one spar, and some simple shrouds (two on each side) 2 it is a two-pieced design based on an account from Captain Bartholomw Gosnold, who led an expedition to Cape Cod in 1602 where he mentions that, upon sighting land and setting anchor, the crew "launched the one half of our shallop." After rowing this "half shallop" to shore and exploring for the day, he notes that "the other part was rowed to shore and set together" Lots of guess work but interesting none-the-less Allan

I do agree with you that she was likely carvel built. This sketch is of a boat built in recent years by the Sultana group but I cannot find anything in their writings that indicate this design is anything more than their best guess. Perhaps they have contemporary evidence of such and that would really be worthwhile to see such information. Allan

I have always done the rails, then the head timbers and it is a royal pain in the neck. I will have to give your route a try on the next one.😀 Allan