chris watton

Bowsprit looks fine, Kevin.

Does this mean that a ship built with stub masts is unfinished?  Or a ship with some of the hull planks missing is unfinished?  If ratlines are missing why is that any different?

That is of course up to you to decide, isn't it?

Stub masts is an accepted way of displaying a model, as it depicts the subject at a particular stage in it's life/construction, as do 'missing planks' -the latter also shows off the internal detail and extra work carried out - leaving the ratlines off just smacks of 'couldn't be bothered to do the necessary but mundane aspects' and detracts from the overall effect. The two examples you mention do not, especially when executed correctly.

If you have a full set of masts however (including top and topgallants, even royals), then not adding ratlines makes no visual or historical sense - once the lower masts were stepped, the lower shrouds and ratlines would have been rigged, otherwise how would the men climb to the tops to aid with the stepping of the upper masts?

This is only my personal opinion, and not gospel, of course.

At the end of the day, it's your kit/model, you are free to do whatever you see fit.

However, a 'scale model' should have the ratlines rigged if it had them, otherwise it will always remain an unfinished scale model. IMOHO.

Hi Chris

ABBA and 18 year old music selections on an 18 hour drive?    You truly do suffer for your Art!

Amati should give you combat pay!    

Best

Jaxboat

PS: Are the wiener dogs going too? They probably like Wagner's Ring Cycle!

I know - you have no idea! lol

Sausage dogs are staying, step son is staying at home (my God!) while we're away - they were all born in Italy though..

Chris - if you are wiling, maybe you could ask them about Cutty Sark plans   I may be ready for that one in about 8 years!

 

Great work on Victory!

 

Thanks,

Bob

I think Cutty Sark is still on hold as we're waiting for a technology that allows us to replicate the two deck houses in fine detail (many different layers of panelling of the real version) - but I shall ask.

Can i carry your bags?

You'd hate it - 12 hours solid driving and having to suffer an 18 year old female's choice of musical dirge on her iPod - plus a wife who loves ABBA! - a necessary evil I have to endure from time to time...

Chris,

A bit off topic, but if you want to see the levels of detail some plastic manufacturers are going to, have a look at the Airfix 1/48th EH101 Merlin Mk 3. This has an amazing 84 decals for the interior of the cabin alone! Having worked on the build these for 29 years there are items that I, and others, did not know existed until we actually checked the aircraft. They don't get much better than this although you can always find something extra to do.

Sorry again to other topic readers for drifting away from maritime subjects

 

Mick Pallas

Plastic kits manufacturers have really upped their game over the past decade or so, allowing you to built a very accurate miniature version of the real thing; I would not be happy spending hundreds on a wooden based kit only to find that its cheaper and relatively tiny plastic equivalent has more detail and more accuracy..

I'll drive

So post above... LOL

I love the Van De Velde drawings - one of my favourite and most treasured of books is Frank Fox's Great Ships - The Battle fleet of Charles II. I used this for reference for a few Prince changes, like the small protruding stern gallery that's not shown on the original model - but I trust the De Velde sketches, I regard them as almost as good as actual photographs for reference.

I am seeing Amati soon, so I'll see what's going on regarding future projects...

Looking good, and brings back memories of my younger years when building this model.

If I may, I would like to give a little tip..

If you can, look carefully at the Payne engraving and Van De Velde sketches. Try to follow the main wales using those as reference for these and the upper wales. Allow the second planking to follow the upward curve of the wales, and this is how the bulwark tops should be shaped - it should be a nice soft curve, not stepped with slightly different angles of the curves as the kit depicts - or at least, when I built it 20 years ago (where do the years go - the older I get, the faster the years pass..)

Chris: Congrats on a fine "prototype" :-) When I heard there was going to be another Victory developed I was a bit cynical that it would be different from the other "Victorys" out there.. I was wrong. She is definitely a unique model from the other kits out there and it will definitely be a "must buy" on a lot of modelers lists.. Congrats again. 

 

And Im impressed on how quickly you got her completed! wow....

 

Mike Draper

Whitehorse, Yukon

Canada

Thank you, Mike. I have written before that I was not looking forward to designing yet another Victory. I have built many Airfix versions, the Panart version and had completed designs for the 72nd scale version 12 years ago. I realise that things have moved on a lot since then, and I most certainly wasn't prepared to re-tread old ground - boring for me, and a let down for the modeller who chooses to buy one.

It was probably the Airfix Victory that got me fascinated with ships from the age of about 8. I have recently bought some Tamiya plastic models, a Spitfire, Mustang and the Airfix 24th scale Mosquito. I know that there are many super-detailing kits to improve the already great level of detail. Some may quite rightly argue that most of the detail cannot be seen when made, but it's there nonetheless and this is where plastic modelling is going, so why not try it with predominantly wooden model kits, rather than simple 'block-models' - in which each new model is nothing more than an 'identi-kit' design of the previous models we build? I didn't want to give the illusion of full gun decks, I wanted the decks to actually be there, and when looking through the stern windows, I wanted to see the decks, not a wall of plywood, so the little boy in me could look through any opening and see detail - if the detail is there in a top of the range £100 Tamiya Spitfire kit, I feel it should also be there for a top of the range £800+ wooden kit - anything less is now unacceptable to me, as a modeller and designer.

With this in mind, Victory designs began, after learning lessons from the Bellona prototype - if it's really no different to the sea of other Victory offerings, then what would be the point - people would justifiably state that they could do just as good a job on a £200 kit, rather than splashing out 3-4 times as much - this is the problem with 'block' models, there's only so far you can go. 

I will still leave out very minor details, like flags for the flag lockers and deck furniture. I believe that most like to add their own stamp of personality to the model and get enjoyment from this aspect, to truly make it their own, so deliberately omitting minor detail is intentional - I am stone cold sure that there will be many interesting and more detailed models made from this kit than my 'bare' prototype - I just hope I have eliminated as much as possible the more boring aspects of building the model..

Nicely done Chris. Much as I would love something this size, she who must be obeyed is against it. If it as good as 'Pegasus', which I am currently doing, there should be no problems in Amati selling the kit. Have you considered doing 'Warrior' or is she to modern?

 

Mick Pallas

Cheers, I have considered the Warrior, but concluded that it wouldn't be a great seller. Wrong period. While there will always be a few that want this model, the bottom line is that not enough would ever sell to justify development time and money. The only good sellers for this period are the elegant clipper ships - for military though, anything post Napoleonic seems to garner little interest. (I'm not saying there's no interest, but not enough to justify developing a kit)

Well done Chris!

 

I still have trouble realizing that she is actually as long as I am tall... Hum...   This kit will be a pleasure to build, I'm sure.

By the way, have you settled on your next design after your well-earned half-year pause?

Wish I did have a half year pause, I have another 6 months on Victory, but it's all PC based....

Am hoping I can either do Prince or the Leda class frigate next.

Something smaller and Dutch ?

 

Jan

..or something small and Dutch...

Cheers guys So glad it's finally finished - no more modelling for at least 6 months now.

The dimensions are approximately 1600mm long x 1200mm high x 560mm width (including main stun sail booms). I must try to weigh it.

so you take the build over, what happens to it then, do they display it, use it for the posters/etc, or do they just give it to me? 

LOL, you will have more fun building one - you haven't finished your Victory yet - you don't want another, your wife will kill you!

It is going over because Amati actually own the model, and of course, they take professional pictures for box art and other promotional stuff.

Thanks Chris for keeping us informed.

I sold my Corel Victory kit on ebay and will wait for this kit

It will never look like your masterpiece when completed.

Thanks Again

Joe

Thank you Joe.

You could make the kit every bit as good, if not much better than the one I made. One thing I do notice on some threads is that some areas seem to be rushed, especially hull prep and painting. If you take your time on this area - fill, sand, fill,sand etc, prime the hull to see where the rest of the imperfections are, and go through it all again until most if not all imperfections/cracks are gone - and then for good measure, do it one last time, the end result can look great - even if you make a hash off the planking (as I usually do...). This does take time, as does the painting - and masking for this particular model. I am sure I spent more time preparing the hull and masking than any other aspect.

Always take your time, never rush. If you're not happy with what you've just done, simply start that area again - this happened several times to get the yellow/black bands correct, or, as correct as they can be to my eye. For a kit like this (or ay other, TBH), never employ a 'That'll do' policy, and the end result is something you and others will be very happy with.

OK, finished!

Well, almost - still needs a figurehead and carronades, but apart from that, it is done - now I have months of PC based work to look forward to.

Sorry about the quality of the pics (and background) - we can now renovate the room with nice oak flooring and putting some colour on the walls (and changing those awful curtains..), now that I have just vacated the space.

Will be taking it at the end of October - have to admit that it doesn't seem that big now, after having it around for so long - almost become part of the furniture.

Need to find a nice sturdy base to attach it to..

With Christmas coming up again did you ever get the fife fishing boat into production?

I shall ask about that when we go over there next month - I have nothing to do with release dates or how and why new kits are released when they are - I just do the design and development which is then handed over to Amati. I then begin the next one and have little clue as to where the completed developments stand by way of release dates. The only clue I get is when I am contacted to check over the final versions of plans/instructions/parts lists. This is how I know the Revenge is next to be released.

Thanks guys I shall see what Amati say when we take the model over next month.

It is almost finished! Just the anchors to tie in place, main brace spans and of course, the figurehead and bowsprit shrouds when the figurehead is eventually in place. (I added the boomkin stays otherwise I couldn't rig the fore tacks/sheets)

I did intend to rig the preventer braces for the fore and main yards, but realised too late that I neglected to add the blocks under the fore top for the standing and falling parts of the main preventer's - and it's just too congested under there to risk trying to get them on..

I did run out of 0.5mm black thread so had to order some more (Model Dockyard to the rescue, again..) - I didn't realise just how much I used, over 2 metres for the fore royal/flagstaff stay alone!

Will take some pics once the anchors are in place. Still lots of touching up to do...

I have kept the bowsprit rigging to a minimum (no jib sail stays but fore yard bowlines are rigged) because this is a very breakable area, especially with the 1000 mile road trip

Thank you!

I think the biggest problem is the fact that everything has to be translated into Italian. I now try and use as little text as possible to help expedite this problem - but am not happy doing so, as I know there are some out there who prefer written instructions than drawings (I have no idea why, I personally prefer drawings over text), so with pages upon pages of instructions, plus hundreds of drawings, I always aimed to please the most amount of people - the fallout being the translation issues. I have even advertised for an Italian translator so that I could do it all at my end, but to no avail.

I hope to hear something on the Revenge front very soon - but they are still on their long summer holiday right now.....

Cheers guys!

Have got all of the yards on now, bowsprit now rigged (but, frustratingly, not the lower parts due to no figurehead yet...)

There are now so many loose lines of rigging that I did the inevitable, I cut short the port topmast yard tie instead of the topgallant yard tie - that'll teach me to concentrate a little harder...

I 'pinned' the boats into position, and I am glad I did, as I have taken three off to make belaying near that area a little easier.

Main stay tackles and main course buntlines and leech lines next.....joy....

Latest as of today - pics not very good, but anticipate another 2 weeks' work..

_{Looking good, Kevin. Nice neat job.}

Thanks for that Jax . I had one of the dogs in a chair next to me whilst tying the ratlines - I think he enjoyed watching me suffer...

I have just finished the ratlines - three long days of solid work. They still look a little too 'white', so tomorrow I will try a mixture of water, tea and PVA and brush the mixture onto the ratlines to slightly darken them and secure the clove hitches before cutting the excess off.

Now that the last of the 'long jobs' is complete, I anticipate finishing it (albeit without figurehead and bowsprit shrouds) within three weeks. Not long now until my wife can have her dining table back.......

Very neat indeed, Chris! Enjoy rattling down.....

Thank you - but rest assured, I won't enjoy the rattling down process - can feel my arms ache in anticipation already....

what will you use for the hammock netting? im still trying to source some (tulle) i can only at present obtain the hex type, 

I never add the netting - I never see it on original Admiralty models so I don't add it (we rarely see guns rigged, too) - plus, it's another of those jobs that I'm probably crap at doing well....

Chris,

 

    I need to see more pictures PLEASE. I am like a kid at Christmas time, I love this build and do wish to see more.

Trouble is, I'm doing the boring stuff now, so nothing really changes that much. (I am not really one for showing every single insignificant stage, trenail by trenail...) I have just finished rigging the lower and upper shrouds (including the shroud cleats), added the footropes to the yards, and the next job is the dreaded ratlines. I think it's pointless taking pics of the yards, as once you've seen one set, you've really seen them all. I guess the next change will be once the yards are fixed in place, which will be in about a week's time. All of the parts are now assembled and in place, so only rigging left to do.

As for the paints, I think I have already stated what I used (and why) already in this thread - the Vallejo paints come into their own when painting the dark wood coloured parts, which seem to give a very good scale appearance, rather than simply staining the parts, which tends to accentuate the way over scale wood grain.

I have just taken a set of pictures (while it's still nice outside) - this is where I am up to. (still waiting for figurehead, though..)

a slight change of subject

 

i have just been looking through the Longbridge book wrt the after davits (yes them again) what are the notches for on the extending arms

Do you mean the quarter davits? If yes, I am assuming they're to aid the men walking up them?

wow caldercrafts victory is 1385 yours is  longer got to admit i like the look of yours better to,but i building caldercraft and i will not be doing a second victory,if yours had been around first that the one i would have gone for    DEREK

Thank you, Derek - I have been following your blog of your fine Victory.

I think the main difference is that most kits are all about the end result, whereas I want not only a good end result, but having most of the fun actually building the kit - at least, I hope so, as it's taken me twice as long as any other kit I have done....

why sorry

 

But i did read in the  Keith Jullier (i think) book that the lack of weight on the anchor, made it more difficult to look as if it belonged in the final stowed position

True, perhaps. however, Victory has all 4 of her main anchors resting in slots in palm blocks - in this instance I think it's better if they're glued into position as they all rest in a particular position dictated by the slotted blocks (at least, from my point of view)