glbarlow

Do you mean by the old kit with poor instructions,  the kit ive got from the 70's?

Thank you for the good hint👍😁

Well, generally that’s true of any such kit, but here I was responding to your mention of your old kit. Among other things the wood in a kit may be quite brittle and certainly designs (how it’s put together in parts and cut wood to assemble) have improved - especially if it’s a @chris watton design. You want your first build to be a positive experience so give yourself every chance upfront. With a Vanguard model you’re doing that, in my opinion. 
 
Another newbie hint. Click and drag to select the particular part of a post you want to reply to (as I just did). A box with ‘quote selection’ will appear. Click on that and it will initiate a reply with just that text. Makes the flow of responses easier to follow by not repeating entire replies. 

Hi Tom, welcome.
 
I would suggest building a smaller model before taking on the 3 foot plus Victory, which won’t be available for a long while. I recommend taking a look at Vanguard Models Here Chris Watten offers a selection of kits made of quality materials, of great design, with exceptional instructions. It would be a great learning experience and a much more positive one than an old kit with poor instructions. Chris also designed Amati’s Victory, so that’s another plus.
 
Building models is great fun, and by starting a build log you also have the forum members to answer questions and offer support as you go.  Victory is the behemoth of models, but the techniques are the same as smaller models and more easily learned there. Check out Speedy or the Fifes on the Vanguard website. You won’t be disappointed.
 
And again welcome.

Yay!!! 2nd planking started, it's 5mmx1mm walnut, first strake on and part of number two, also top transom fitted, yet to be planked.
I am using pva glue so its going to be a slow process. 
Thanks for comments, always appreciated and for the likes.
Cheers 😉👍

I would think the second planking would wrap around the counter.  If you put the counter on last how will the resulting edge look... I’d wait.
 
CA vs. PVA on planking call for two different techniques, looking around the build logs should give you a feel for what works for you. I’ve always used CA, just don’t use too much at a time. I recommend bevels great the top of each plank for a tighter fit. 

Boxwood is almost 4 times the cost of even pearwood. It is much closer grained and very strong. The colour is different, lighter than pear wood. Boxwood is used a lot for delicate carving because it doesn't split like 'normal' woods. Flirt MS version has 6 laser cut sheets in varying thicknesses, and 1x4, 1x3 and 1x2mm boxwood strip for hull planking.

That’s one big boat. Great look at the quality of your planking 

Thanks Reg. Yes the pear and cherry work really well together.
 
Thanks Glenn. Big is and understatement! I worked with Cheerful right in my lap. Not this time. 

Standard version Flirt is already high spec, with laser cut pearwood and pearwood planking, Keel and bulkheads are 3mm MDF, and lower 2mm deck and stern frames are 2mm birch ply (the 2mm deck was initially meant to be done in 'Ceiba ply', but I decided this material was utter trash, and changed to much stronger 2mm birch ply) . There will be 2mm single blocks for rigging the cannon carriages if you so desire.
 
Master Shipwright version is crazy spec, but will look fantastic, DelF's version of Speedy looks wonderful. Flirt MS will have laser cut keel and bulkheads in the highest quality birch ply, all wooden laser cut parts in 1mm, 1.5mm, 2mm, 3mm and 4mm boxwood, second planking in boxwood too. Machined pearwood blocks as standard PLUS 90+ 2.5mm 2 hole pear wood blocks for rigging the cannon carriages.  This version also comes with the 18' cutter as standard, with 1x2mm boxwood planking.
 
Both versions will have 100 metre reels of Gutterman 0.1mm thread, so there's more than enough for rigging the cannon as well as masts and yards.
 
I changed my mind about the box very late, last week in fact. I am now having the same type as the small Fifie and Zulu, but a larger internal length (520x300x90mm), so the planking strips fit in better, plus I could have two labels for the boxes, one for the standard and one for the MS version.

I will update you on that later this week, it does look pretty cool!
 
ETA - Both versions of Flirt will be available to pre order very soon, as everything is almost ready and sorted, after a very stressful couple of weeks organising printing and new size boxes....

Interlude
 
I'd decided I wasn't going to post an update until I'd completed rigging at least the port or starboard guns, but as that is likely to be some time I'll post a quick update on two tools/products I've just got.
 
The first is Quadhands.
 

I saw this in other people's build logs and persuaded myself I needed one. I'm glad I did - it's so much more substantial and versatile than other helping hands I've used, with a solid metal base and five (not 4?) flexible arms. These are magnetic and are therefore re-positionable. Great for rigging jobs:
 

 
The second product I got for protecting Speedy's copper plates. I quickly decided not to leave the copper to weather naturally - I must have touched the hull with unprotected fingers in several places, because in a few days there were several unsightly smudges.  Using spare plates I experimented with a number of varnishes, both water-based and polyurethane, but didn't like the results. Finally I tried clear lacquer. The one I bought was intended for protecting touch-up paint jobs on cars:
 

 
I toyed with the idea of airbrushing the lacquer but after a test I found it brushed on really easily. It dried quickly and to my eye enhanced rather than masked the copper. From now on it'll be a relief not having to worry about touching the hull.
 
Back to the guns!
 
Derek
 
 

There will be lots of sawdust. A mask is one essential but so is ventilation. If it isn't there naturally consider the purchase of an air filtration system. Mind is from Rabbit Air and about $400, but there are much cheaper options. Since you're in a basement something like this link would work: Wen
 
This is the most critical and important thing you're going to do - do it right and planking is easy, do it terribly wrong and you may end up tossing the model and starting over.  Its not beveling in this case its Fairing the frame.  I'd worry less about lines than having a smooth run from bow to stern and keeping the hull symmetrical by fairing both sides the same. You should be able to run a batten (a light, narrow, thin strip you can easily hold up to the side).  You will see this done on almost every build log on this site, you can see it in my Cheerful build, another Chuck Passaro design. You should research some of the other Syren, Cheerful or Winnie build logs for examples. Bottom line is the smooth run of the batten - you can maintain the back edge Of the bulkheads (from bow to mid-ships) and front edge (stern to mid-ships) to make sure you keep the symmetry - most of the rest of it should show no laser char.  As this is a Chuck design I'm sure those lines will prove helpful - but still look at other logs.
 
My main suggestion is to search this site for other Syren builds and select some that you find especially well done. Let them serve as your guides. I consult three other Cheerful build logs, ones competed years ago, that I look at before taking the next step with my own build. In fact my goal in my log is to leave one future builders will find helpful. You only need to read the entries for the step you're on or is up next.
My first build board was a 1x6 board with shoe molding and 1x1s set the width of the keel that held the ship upright. Now I use and Amati stand for the most part, but still use the function specific ones I build for particular stages. Here again research build logs will give you all the visuals you need to make your own - but the Amati stand is pretty popular and available from various hobby sites. It just has to hold the ship, many models come with a cradle, which also works fine. 
 
To summarize - there is no better teaching tool than the build logs that have gone before you - there are likely dozens of Syren logs on this site, its a popular kit.
 
Have fun. Remember the modeler's creed Adapt, Improvise, Overcome - (thanks Clint Eastwood) there will be problems and hurdles, the fun of this is figuring a way through them.

There will be lots of sawdust. A mask is one essential but so is ventilation. If it isn't there naturally consider the purchase of an air filtration system. Mind is from Rabbit Air and about $400, but there are much cheaper options. Since you're in a basement something like this link would work: Wen
 
This is the most critical and important thing you're going to do - do it right and planking is easy, do it terribly wrong and you may end up tossing the model and starting over.  Its not beveling in this case its Fairing the frame.  I'd worry less about lines than having a smooth run from bow to stern and keeping the hull symmetrical by fairing both sides the same. You should be able to run a batten (a light, narrow, thin strip you can easily hold up to the side).  You will see this done on almost every build log on this site, you can see it in my Cheerful build, another Chuck Passaro design. You should research some of the other Syren, Cheerful or Winnie build logs for examples. Bottom line is the smooth run of the batten - you can maintain the back edge Of the bulkheads (from bow to mid-ships) and front edge (stern to mid-ships) to make sure you keep the symmetry - most of the rest of it should show no laser char.  As this is a Chuck design I'm sure those lines will prove helpful - but still look at other logs.
 
My main suggestion is to search this site for other Syren builds and select some that you find especially well done. Let them serve as your guides. I consult three other Cheerful build logs, ones competed years ago, that I look at before taking the next step with my own build. In fact my goal in my log is to leave one future builders will find helpful. You only need to read the entries for the step you're on or is up next.
My first build board was a 1x6 board with shoe molding and 1x1s set the width of the keel that held the ship upright. Now I use and Amati stand for the most part, but still use the function specific ones I build for particular stages. Here again research build logs will give you all the visuals you need to make your own - but the Amati stand is pretty popular and available from various hobby sites. It just has to hold the ship, many models come with a cradle, which also works fine. 
 
To summarize - there is no better teaching tool than the build logs that have gone before you - there are likely dozens of Syren logs on this site, its a popular kit.
 
Have fun. Remember the modeler's creed Adapt, Improvise, Overcome - (thanks Clint Eastwood) there will be problems and hurdles, the fun of this is figuring a way through them.

Hi Glenn and Bob,
The Blackening stuff I use is called Carr's Metal Black for Brass, they are Based in the UK.
I think sheen Glenn is more related to the extent the surface is buffed, it's not something I do to any great extent on say  period gun barrels which I tend to leave fairly dull.
I used Admiralty Paints water based Metal primer in this case, as I wanted to reduce any risk of the painted areas chipping or flaking, but I rarely paint etched brass stuff, I prefer to just blacken it.
 
Regards,
 
B.E.
 
 

After completing the drop plank and the first two rows of planks below the wales (where the drop plank counts as two at the bow), plus installing more than one or two fashion pieces I’ve now completed the wales. I painted them using Admiralty Paints Ironwork Black, which oddly enough is duller (really more flat) than the Dull Black I normally use.
 

 
I was really tempted to also paint the counter but decided to wait until I’d at least had a dry-fitting with the square tuck I’ll somehow create after getting the next 8 rows of planks on both sides.
 

 
I didn’t take any photos of installing the wales, but it’s as straight forward as on any model - I did try extra hard on keeping neat paint lines. Me and Tamiya tape did ok with that, with some effort. It’s worth it to take the time getting the tape right, its either that or scrape, sand, and clean up where you didn’t. If you’re not familiar with Tamiya tape, get some. There is nothing better, blue painter’s tape isn’t even close, in getting a close tight seal for painting - for those of us like me who lack the skill to free-hand. Though I am pretty handy with an 18/0 brush to do touchup.
 

 
I also followed Chuck’s instruction to thin out the wales at the bow. I cut and dry-fitted both top and bottom planks then held them side by side on a work board and tapered them down to near saxophone reed thickness. In my case they actually did fit into the rabbit. They do look so much better this way.
 

 
Since I’ll be working upside down it was time for a new stand, really an old stand modified. I go for function over form with these things so its nothing fancy, just a cut-down of a stand made for my Vanguard with some cross blocks added for stability. The fun part is I used my new mill for the very first time - for the very easy job of adding a slot down the center of the cross blocks. So now I'm a miller, sorta.
 

 

 
I added a fresh coat of poly across what is now the completed top third of the hull. Now it’s time mark the two belts with artist tape, get out the tick strips and line the hull as I start planking the 8 rows of planks that make up the top belt.  Not that anything has been fast, but this next phase will be slow going to get each plank right - and as a bonus I also get to rip more planks, so Yay!
 

Cutters are my new favorite thing.  I like your concept and work here and will enjoy seeing your progress, it’s looking great so far.

Cutters are my new favorite thing.  I like your concept and work here and will enjoy seeing your progress, it’s looking great so far.

After completing the drop plank and the first two rows of planks below the wales (where the drop plank counts as two at the bow), plus installing more than one or two fashion pieces I’ve now completed the wales. I painted them using Admiralty Paints Ironwork Black, which oddly enough is duller (really more flat) than the Dull Black I normally use.
 

 
I was really tempted to also paint the counter but decided to wait until I’d at least had a dry-fitting with the square tuck I’ll somehow create after getting the next 8 rows of planks on both sides.
 

 
I didn’t take any photos of installing the wales, but it’s as straight forward as on any model - I did try extra hard on keeping neat paint lines. Me and Tamiya tape did ok with that, with some effort. It’s worth it to take the time getting the tape right, its either that or scrape, sand, and clean up where you didn’t. If you’re not familiar with Tamiya tape, get some. There is nothing better, blue painter’s tape isn’t even close, in getting a close tight seal for painting - for those of us like me who lack the skill to free-hand. Though I am pretty handy with an 18/0 brush to do touchup.
 

 
I also followed Chuck’s instruction to thin out the wales at the bow. I cut and dry-fitted both top and bottom planks then held them side by side on a work board and tapered them down to near saxophone reed thickness. In my case they actually did fit into the rabbit. They do look so much better this way.
 

 
Since I’ll be working upside down it was time for a new stand, really an old stand modified. I go for function over form with these things so its nothing fancy, just a cut-down of a stand made for my Vanguard with some cross blocks added for stability. The fun part is I used my new mill for the very first time - for the very easy job of adding a slot down the center of the cross blocks. So now I'm a miller, sorta.
 

 

 
I added a fresh coat of poly across what is now the completed top third of the hull. Now it’s time mark the two belts with artist tape, get out the tick strips and line the hull as I start planking the 8 rows of planks that make up the top belt.  Not that anything has been fast, but this next phase will be slow going to get each plank right - and as a bonus I also get to rip more planks, so Yay!
 

So who here besides me was expecting a train wreck after my last post. I cut the fashion pieces only to decide the plan size was too short for my ship, I decided that after they were glued on, because they curve into the ship dry-fitting didn’t help. So I remade them, more in a moment. The concept of a drop plank is simple and works great once you’ve done your first three and then it clicks - seems obvious and maybe that was my problem, trying to outthink it - figured it out eventually so let’s start:
 

 
I “adopted” my process for cutting out the planks from Rusty. I made copies of a section of the plan, cut out the fashion pieces and then used rubber cement to attach them to a section of 1/16th board. This process worked well, but here’s what I learned - to be clear this applies to my model your milage may vary. I noticed right away the first ones I cut seemed to “small” so to make me feel better I enlarged the copy of the plans to 105% and used those for the template. As I mentioned those still turned out too short so as you can see in the photo I added a few marks to them extra long so I could trim to fit. I’m not going to say what iteration of cut-outs wound up on the ship, let’s just say more than four are in the scrap heap though in fairness a couple were intentional victim prototypes to try stuff like bending and curving. First-timers…
 

 
I found this simple little jig helpful. a strip of 1/32nd up against the hull for the right distance of the piece back from the transom and another scrap on top of it as a backstop to align the piece equal to the run of the transom. Yes that's a cracked plank but its the lower level of the wales so no problem - else it'd be gone.
 
A good place to note I ended up adding a 1/64th shim on frame 16 to get a better flow to the eventual square tuck -or maybe I'm overthinking it again, no this time I'm right, maybe.
 

 
You might note the two fashion pieces are on opposite sides of the ship, that didn’t stop me from making as near exact copies as I could as my multiple measurements (sorry Chuck, in millimeters) taken multiple times until I got them near copies. I'm not sure why I was going to the hundredth of a millimeter, seems obsessive.
 

 
I learned from attempt one I have a bit of a curve on the lower wales plank, so to make the fit easier I modified my plank bending station to roll the fashion piece into a curve over a dowel. I did this having first “stretched” it because my counter was longer/wider/shallower that the plans - really not very much at all, but enough that bending the curve out helped. I would like to add - this worked and other than dipping it in water or wiping on a little water with a wet finger I soaked nothing (at some point I knocked my beer over, but that’s not the point). This advertisement of Chuck’s Plank Bending method brought to you by me.
 

 
Don’t look too closely at this photo because those planks don’t exist anymore except as a waste of a perfectly good Alaskan tree. I didn’t like the fit (there is a gap at the drop plank, or would be on the next row of planks) and I just wasn’t going to compromise. On a double planked kit I know I could easily make it up with the remaining planking, but here I was concerned it would just compound as I went. The problem, for me, was the alignment of the drop plank extension. First I pushed it up too far, and then let lay down too much which makes the subsequent planks less than a clean run. I figured out, and while this might come as a surprise, to glue it down the way it wants to lay naturally…go figure. easy for you to say.
 
So I ripped off the below wales planks on both sides (you'd think you'd learn the second time but no. And while I was at it, see above on fashion pieces, taking those all off with the rest. I walked upstairs and told my wife - you know how I’ve been working on this ship for the last several days - well I wasn’t because everything I did is gone. At least the frame hadn’t dropped on the floor and exploded again, at least not yet - let’s not think about that…
 

 
I lightly sanded the entire hull down and will apply a new coat of poly after installing the wales and before moving on to the rest of the planking. I'll be using Admiralty Paints Ironwork Black on the wales. I did a test strip - it both looks fine with wipe-on Poly with a slight satin look or the Poly can be painted over if I want to keep it flat. I'll see when I get there.
 

 
So, anyway, I arrived to a point where I’m ready to move on. I’ll add the 2nd layer of the wales next then start the process of lining the hull, cutting more sticks, I mean planks. Did I mention I was impressed with myself for ripping the thin 1/32nd (.79mm) thick planks required as the top layer of the wales. I figured I needed 6 but I was having fun so I cut 12. I hope I don’t need them but who knows.
 
On we go.

It is a nice feature and nicely installed, a definite plus in my book. What blacken product do you use, that’s a very nice sheen you’ve obtained rather than the usual matte result? Also what metal primer?  I always go back and forth on whether to prime or not prime...

Thanks Glenn, it does help having a scale figure when making fittings, but I'm afraid Willie is far too rough looking to remain as a display feature.
It is almost a sort of relief, no more extensive plating, ratlines, gun rigging, and tackle make-ups, and a whole new field to research. 😃 Having said that it is only a few months since I applied 2500 copper  nails to the lapstrake planking on the cutter Alert.😉
B.E.
 
Post 25

 
Bits and pieces


 
It seems it was practise to have the name of the Registered port on the Starboard aft quarter, and the vessel name on the Port side.

6020
The name Fraserburgh (why didn’t I choose Wick) was made up with 1.5mm brass letters from Scale-link, ca’d to a board. Given the tiny size the process went better than I had imagined.


 
I used the name boards to cover the now defunct steering rope ports.



 
At the stern Port side an iron ring is required to retain the Mizen boom. One isn’t provided in the kit but they are easily made by various methods.


6013
I silver soldered a ring to a base plate, secured to the thwart using ca.



 
At the bow the kit provides a brass etched Bow plate, very nicely done, but I hesitated to fit it. Not that there isn’t evidence for such a fitting, the Reaper has one, but I had concerns that if I blackened it the result would be too stark against the varnished hull, and the lower sections would need to be painted.


6019(2)
Nevertheless it is a nice feature so I thought I should at least give it a go.


The Brass was prepared by washing in soapy water, rubbed with  fine wire wool, rinsed in distilled water, and immersed in diluted blackener, before rinsing again. Buffed up before a second dip, a stable colour was obtained.


 
On reflection I decided to add it.


 
The manual suggests that this part be glued to the stem and that short pins be inserted in shallow holes to represent the retaining nails.


 
I didn’t find this necessary and simply pinned the bow plate to the stem using blackened pins only. (shortened pins for the top two)


 
I was conscious of the fact that any stray ca getting on the Bow plate would spoil the look.

 

6034
The top of the plate did need a spot of ca to hold it secure to the stem top before the provided brass eye (PE12) was inserted.



6045

6048
The lower part of the plate is painted with metal primer, to take the follow thro’ paint lines of the lower hull.

 

6109
 
 
B.E.

11/07/20

 
 
 


 
 
 
 

After completing the drop plank and the first two rows of planks below the wales (where the drop plank counts as two at the bow), plus installing more than one or two fashion pieces I’ve now completed the wales. I painted them using Admiralty Paints Ironwork Black, which oddly enough is duller (really more flat) than the Dull Black I normally use.
 

 
I was really tempted to also paint the counter but decided to wait until I’d at least had a dry-fitting with the square tuck I’ll somehow create after getting the next 8 rows of planks on both sides.
 

 
I didn’t take any photos of installing the wales, but it’s as straight forward as on any model - I did try extra hard on keeping neat paint lines. Me and Tamiya tape did ok with that, with some effort. It’s worth it to take the time getting the tape right, its either that or scrape, sand, and clean up where you didn’t. If you’re not familiar with Tamiya tape, get some. There is nothing better, blue painter’s tape isn’t even close, in getting a close tight seal for painting - for those of us like me who lack the skill to free-hand. Though I am pretty handy with an 18/0 brush to do touchup.
 

 
I also followed Chuck’s instruction to thin out the wales at the bow. I cut and dry-fitted both top and bottom planks then held them side by side on a work board and tapered them down to near saxophone reed thickness. In my case they actually did fit into the rabbit. They do look so much better this way.
 

 
Since I’ll be working upside down it was time for a new stand, really an old stand modified. I go for function over form with these things so its nothing fancy, just a cut-down of a stand made for my Vanguard with some cross blocks added for stability. The fun part is I used my new mill for the very first time - for the very easy job of adding a slot down the center of the cross blocks. So now I'm a miller, sorta.
 

 

 
I added a fresh coat of poly across what is now the completed top third of the hull. Now it’s time mark the two belts with artist tape, get out the tick strips and line the hull as I start planking the 8 rows of planks that make up the top belt.  Not that anything has been fast, but this next phase will be slow going to get each plank right - and as a bonus I also get to rip more planks, so Yay!
 

Willie is a cool looking dude, I like having scaled figures to stand around on my models during construction to get a sense of size.
 
Enjoying your research on fishing craft and the modifications to Chris' design.  I'm like you, no more large models for me - these small craft are more enjoyable and a lot less repetitious tasks. My head still spins from the 3,000 or more copper plates I put on Vanguard. 

Willie is a cool looking dude, I like having scaled figures to stand around on my models during construction to get a sense of size.
 
Enjoying your research on fishing craft and the modifications to Chris' design.  I'm like you, no more large models for me - these small craft are more enjoyable and a lot less repetitious tasks. My head still spins from the 3,000 or more copper plates I put on Vanguard.