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Bob Cleek

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  1. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in V Tool   
    It's a boatwright's term. A fit stick is a short squared stick of wood with a bevel cut on one end that is the same thickness as your planking. It serves to check the fit of the plank in the rabbet as you cut the rabbet. You lay the fit stick against the frame face and slide it down until it fetches up against the keel. You start cutting a notch which will be the shape of the rabbet at that point on the keel and sliding the fit stick down as you remove wood until the stick fits perfectly into the short section of rabbet you've cut. You do this at each frame on the rabbet and similarly in the stem and stern posts. Then you strike your rabbet line with a batten, connecting the rabbet line at each notch you've cut. Then, again using your fit stick, you cut the rest of the rabbet, connecting the notches. In this fashion, the rolling bevel of the rabbet is cut so the plank will lay fairly and flush into the rabbet, which is particularly important on a real rabbet seam which will have to be caulked, but isn't as important with a model that isn't going to be caulked. Still, even with a model, it's got to fit well unless you don't mind slapping a lot of filler to make up for a sloppy fit. This is the easiest way to cut the angle of a rabbet accurately because plans generally only show the rabbet line, but not the back rabbet (apex) line, nor the bearding line.
     
    A video is worth ten thousand words.... this British fellow calls it a "planking block," though. "Fit stick" may be an Americanism. See: Traditional Maritime Skills :: Cutting the Rabbet (large vessels) (boat-building.org)
     
    This site has a great collection of text and video instructions for boatbuilding skills. Any modeler who is unfamiliar with traditional full-sized wooden boat and ship building techniques should find it very helpful. It's a handy reference site.
     
  2. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from DelF in V Tool   
    It's a boatwright's term. A fit stick is a short squared stick of wood with a bevel cut on one end that is the same thickness as your planking. It serves to check the fit of the plank in the rabbet as you cut the rabbet. You lay the fit stick against the frame face and slide it down until it fetches up against the keel. You start cutting a notch which will be the shape of the rabbet at that point on the keel and sliding the fit stick down as you remove wood until the stick fits perfectly into the short section of rabbet you've cut. You do this at each frame on the rabbet and similarly in the stem and stern posts. Then you strike your rabbet line with a batten, connecting the rabbet line at each notch you've cut. Then, again using your fit stick, you cut the rest of the rabbet, connecting the notches. In this fashion, the rolling bevel of the rabbet is cut so the plank will lay fairly and flush into the rabbet, which is particularly important on a real rabbet seam which will have to be caulked, but isn't as important with a model that isn't going to be caulked. Still, even with a model, it's got to fit well unless you don't mind slapping a lot of filler to make up for a sloppy fit. This is the easiest way to cut the angle of a rabbet accurately because plans generally only show the rabbet line, but not the back rabbet (apex) line, nor the bearding line.
     
    A video is worth ten thousand words.... this British fellow calls it a "planking block," though. "Fit stick" may be an Americanism. See: Traditional Maritime Skills :: Cutting the Rabbet (large vessels) (boat-building.org)
     
    This site has a great collection of text and video instructions for boatbuilding skills. Any modeler who is unfamiliar with traditional full-sized wooden boat and ship building techniques should find it very helpful. It's a handy reference site.
     
  3. Thanks!
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from thibaultron in V Tool   
    It's a boatwright's term. A fit stick is a short squared stick of wood with a bevel cut on one end that is the same thickness as your planking. It serves to check the fit of the plank in the rabbet as you cut the rabbet. You lay the fit stick against the frame face and slide it down until it fetches up against the keel. You start cutting a notch which will be the shape of the rabbet at that point on the keel and sliding the fit stick down as you remove wood until the stick fits perfectly into the short section of rabbet you've cut. You do this at each frame on the rabbet and similarly in the stem and stern posts. Then you strike your rabbet line with a batten, connecting the rabbet line at each notch you've cut. Then, again using your fit stick, you cut the rest of the rabbet, connecting the notches. In this fashion, the rolling bevel of the rabbet is cut so the plank will lay fairly and flush into the rabbet, which is particularly important on a real rabbet seam which will have to be caulked, but isn't as important with a model that isn't going to be caulked. Still, even with a model, it's got to fit well unless you don't mind slapping a lot of filler to make up for a sloppy fit. This is the easiest way to cut the angle of a rabbet accurately because plans generally only show the rabbet line, but not the back rabbet (apex) line, nor the bearding line.
     
    A video is worth ten thousand words.... this British fellow calls it a "planking block," though. "Fit stick" may be an Americanism. See: Traditional Maritime Skills :: Cutting the Rabbet (large vessels) (boat-building.org)
     
    This site has a great collection of text and video instructions for boatbuilding skills. Any modeler who is unfamiliar with traditional full-sized wooden boat and ship building techniques should find it very helpful. It's a handy reference site.
     
  4. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Malazan in V Tool   
    It's a boatwright's term. A fit stick is a short squared stick of wood with a bevel cut on one end that is the same thickness as your planking. It serves to check the fit of the plank in the rabbet as you cut the rabbet. You lay the fit stick against the frame face and slide it down until it fetches up against the keel. You start cutting a notch which will be the shape of the rabbet at that point on the keel and sliding the fit stick down as you remove wood until the stick fits perfectly into the short section of rabbet you've cut. You do this at each frame on the rabbet and similarly in the stem and stern posts. Then you strike your rabbet line with a batten, connecting the rabbet line at each notch you've cut. Then, again using your fit stick, you cut the rest of the rabbet, connecting the notches. In this fashion, the rolling bevel of the rabbet is cut so the plank will lay fairly and flush into the rabbet, which is particularly important on a real rabbet seam which will have to be caulked, but isn't as important with a model that isn't going to be caulked. Still, even with a model, it's got to fit well unless you don't mind slapping a lot of filler to make up for a sloppy fit. This is the easiest way to cut the angle of a rabbet accurately because plans generally only show the rabbet line, but not the back rabbet (apex) line, nor the bearding line.
     
    A video is worth ten thousand words.... this British fellow calls it a "planking block," though. "Fit stick" may be an Americanism. See: Traditional Maritime Skills :: Cutting the Rabbet (large vessels) (boat-building.org)
     
    This site has a great collection of text and video instructions for boatbuilding skills. Any modeler who is unfamiliar with traditional full-sized wooden boat and ship building techniques should find it very helpful. It's a handy reference site.
     
  5. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Rik Thistle in V Tool   
    It's a boatwright's term. A fit stick is a short squared stick of wood with a bevel cut on one end that is the same thickness as your planking. It serves to check the fit of the plank in the rabbet as you cut the rabbet. You lay the fit stick against the frame face and slide it down until it fetches up against the keel. You start cutting a notch which will be the shape of the rabbet at that point on the keel and sliding the fit stick down as you remove wood until the stick fits perfectly into the short section of rabbet you've cut. You do this at each frame on the rabbet and similarly in the stem and stern posts. Then you strike your rabbet line with a batten, connecting the rabbet line at each notch you've cut. Then, again using your fit stick, you cut the rest of the rabbet, connecting the notches. In this fashion, the rolling bevel of the rabbet is cut so the plank will lay fairly and flush into the rabbet, which is particularly important on a real rabbet seam which will have to be caulked, but isn't as important with a model that isn't going to be caulked. Still, even with a model, it's got to fit well unless you don't mind slapping a lot of filler to make up for a sloppy fit. This is the easiest way to cut the angle of a rabbet accurately because plans generally only show the rabbet line, but not the back rabbet (apex) line, nor the bearding line.
     
    A video is worth ten thousand words.... this British fellow calls it a "planking block," though. "Fit stick" may be an Americanism. See: Traditional Maritime Skills :: Cutting the Rabbet (large vessels) (boat-building.org)
     
    This site has a great collection of text and video instructions for boatbuilding skills. Any modeler who is unfamiliar with traditional full-sized wooden boat and ship building techniques should find it very helpful. It's a handy reference site.
     
  6. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Jack12477 in V Tool   
    It's a boatwright's term. A fit stick is a short squared stick of wood with a bevel cut on one end that is the same thickness as your planking. It serves to check the fit of the plank in the rabbet as you cut the rabbet. You lay the fit stick against the frame face and slide it down until it fetches up against the keel. You start cutting a notch which will be the shape of the rabbet at that point on the keel and sliding the fit stick down as you remove wood until the stick fits perfectly into the short section of rabbet you've cut. You do this at each frame on the rabbet and similarly in the stem and stern posts. Then you strike your rabbet line with a batten, connecting the rabbet line at each notch you've cut. Then, again using your fit stick, you cut the rest of the rabbet, connecting the notches. In this fashion, the rolling bevel of the rabbet is cut so the plank will lay fairly and flush into the rabbet, which is particularly important on a real rabbet seam which will have to be caulked, but isn't as important with a model that isn't going to be caulked. Still, even with a model, it's got to fit well unless you don't mind slapping a lot of filler to make up for a sloppy fit. This is the easiest way to cut the angle of a rabbet accurately because plans generally only show the rabbet line, but not the back rabbet (apex) line, nor the bearding line.
     
    A video is worth ten thousand words.... this British fellow calls it a "planking block," though. "Fit stick" may be an Americanism. See: Traditional Maritime Skills :: Cutting the Rabbet (large vessels) (boat-building.org)
     
    This site has a great collection of text and video instructions for boatbuilding skills. Any modeler who is unfamiliar with traditional full-sized wooden boat and ship building techniques should find it very helpful. It's a handy reference site.
     
  7. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to vaddoc in V Tool   
    Getting a straight line with a V chisel is to my experience very difficult. It will end up wavy-especially in large scales. Repeated cuts with a very sharp chisel, up to 6 mm for straight, 3 mm for curves, then deepening the grove without touching the edge of the rabet, works much better for me.
  8. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Roger Pellett in Rotary tool recommendations, preferences   
    Hey!  If my post sounded critical of replies by Bob and Justin, I’m sorry.  After all, you guys provided straight answers to the question!  As self proclaimed master of thread drift I probably clouded the issue.
     
    As a matter of fact, I used my Sears rotary tool yesterday.  It did a great job of cutting brass tubing to line portholes in the model that I am building.  In fact, the accessories that I use by far the most with this tool are the little disposable cutting discs.  
     
    Roger
  9. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Jim Rogers in Rotary tool recommendations, preferences   
    I use a Dremel with Flex shaft and foot control and a rechargeable Dremel and needle files. I find you need all dependent on situation.
  10. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Sasha131 in Rotary tool recommendations, preferences   
    Your opinion certainly isn't contrary to mine. The OP asked about rotary tools. Had he asked, "What's the best tool for cleaning up portholes?" my answer would have been a round file or a hand reamer of some sort. My first rotary tool was that same Sears Craftsman rotary tool you mention. I still have it. I can't remember when I used it last. I believe they were made by Weller and labeled "Craftsman" by Sears, as was Sears' practice with all of their products. (Sears and its subsidiary, K-Mart, had over 3,000 stores and they were two of the largest retailers in the US fifteen years ago. Now there are about 19 Sears and 16 Kmart stores left. Stanley Black & Decker now own the Craftsman brand and, while they claim to honor the famous "lifetime no questions asked replacement warranty" on Craftsman hand tools, they only honor it if the store that sells Craftsman tools to which you bring your broken tool happens to have that very same tool in stock, which often they don't. If the broken tool is part of a set, and they don't have loose stock to replace it, they won't break up a set to do the exchange, so you're out of luck. This is classic "thread drift," I know, but I thought it was an interesting footnote.) In retrospect, compared to the Dremel I bought later, the Craftsman/Weller rotary tool was rather inferior.)
     
    Perhaps I should have gone into more detail on rotary tools, I suppose. Truly, rotary tools can be and generally are too aggressive when used on anything but metal. (The Dremel Moto-tool was originally designed and marketed as a die grinder.) As I mentioned in my post above, it's all about torque and not about speed. One of the big drawbacks to a high-speed rotary tool is that it too aggressively removes soft material. Combine that limitation with a heavy, less ergonomic tool and controlling it becomes very difficult, especially with fine work. Additionally, slowing down these high-speed motors, particularly the newer very high speed rare earth magnet "micro-motors," results in a corresponding loss of what was not a lot of torque to begin with. Trying to do work with wood, and particularly plastics, which can melt when cut with high speed tools, with a tool that is really only effective at high speed, is very difficult and, in the case of plastic, sometimes impossible.
     
    Painting with a somewhat broad brush, I offered four options, intentionally omitting 12 volt and battery-powered options, as well as the entire range of "micro-motor" rotary tools which are becoming more popular in some quarters these days. The micro-motor tools are small handpieces with the motor in the handpiece itself. These are very high speed tools with little torque, but they are easier to control due to their ergonomics. They are primarily useful for very fine detail work and lack the broader range of attachment capabilities of the other rotary tools.
     
    All of which is to say that in my opinion the best option of all in terms of versatility and power at low, more easily controllable speeds, as may be needed, are the dental engines. These days, if you watch eBay and similar sites carefully, one can find a dental lab grade dental engine that was built to last a lifetime, in very good condition, for a couple of hundred bucks or less. Considering the maxim that much touted "multi-tools" do none of the things they say they do well, one has to realize that with a dental engine, they may want to acquire a separate mini-drill press or the like because the dental engine isn't going to do it for them on that score, but then again, mounting a Dremel-type motor in a drill press attachment is a poor option anyway.
     
    And no matter what, one will need to have a good set of wood-cutting files and rifflers anyway.
     
     
  11. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in Rotary tool recommendations, preferences   
    The small rechargeable Dremel mototools were quite promising. I have one, but haven't used it in a long time. I bought it for my wife who shows dogs and wanted a cordless Dremel for doing pedicures on her basset hounds on the road at dog shows. There was (is) an undisclosed design defect in them. They are fine for quick use, but if they are run for any length of time (I'm guessing eight or ten minutes continuously,) the battery to motor body contacts heat up to the point where they actually melt, at which point the (expensive) battery is useless. At least, that was my experience with them. I suspect this is why Dremel discontinued them.
  12. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Charles Green in Rotary tool recommendations, preferences   
    For detail work, I'm with Roger on this.  Nothing beats a file for fine, finish work, especially when getting into corners is involved.  Purpose-made sanding sticks are an economical alternative but I find files leave better edges and internal corners.
  13. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to ccoyle in Rotary tool recommendations, preferences   
    I don't build them, but I bought one a couple of years ago so I could hunt an extra ten days in SC. Never once even saw a deer whenever I took my BP rifle out. 😢
     
    Anyways, the real reason I chimed in on this thread is to say that I own a Dremel tool with a flex shaft attachment. I used it quite a bit when I was building wooden kits. I soon ditched the flex shaft -- it worked fine, but I just preferred working without it. Now that I'm working mostly in card, I rarely use my Dremel, but it does work nicely for turning aircraft wheels. As others have pointed out, you do have to pay attention to what you're doing when using a rotary tool for tasks like sanding, as it can very easily and quickly remove more material than intended.
     
  14. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Jaager in Rotary tool recommendations, preferences   
    One thing about files:   a lot of deals and advertising for diamond coated.  These are for working metal.  The cutting edges do not fit with wood.
    You want HSS.  You want one of the small number of high quality company products.  If you are doing heavy wood removal, keep any downward force on top of the area being filed.
    Working a file with the file force vectors making it bow will not end well for your pocketbook.
  15. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Snug Harbor Johnny in Rotary tool recommendations, preferences   
    My Dad was a retired dentist who modeled 1930s biplanes or WWI aircraft, and used an old-school dental rig like the one pictured.  When he passed, my brother got dibs on the drill to work on his fossils ... so I ended up getting the HF flex shaft tool with foot control.  It does leave some to be desired - but was cheap and locally available, and has proven adequate so far.  But the right-angle head on the dentist's drill was clearly more useful overall.
     
  16. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Roger Pellett in Rotary tool recommendations, preferences   
    I offer a contrary opinion.  Since I enjoy sidetracking threads, this advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.  😜
     
    Don’t buy a rotary tool!  Instead buy a decent set of needle files.  These rotary tools can be too aggressive when used on fragile materials. If used with any sort of heavy tool, the mass rotating at high speed begins to take charge.   If you don’t have a light touch and a sure hand, you’re likely to wind up with a picture window instead of a porthole!
     
    I have had a Sears Craftsman rotary tool that is 50 years old.  It is great for use on metal but way too aggressive for use on thin wood.  I recently bought a Proxxon pen sized engraver that is powered by a separate 12v power supply.   With a small round point engraving tool, it works well on model scale materials.
     
    Roger
  17. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Justin P. in Rotary tool recommendations, preferences   
    +1 for Foredom.   Mine is over 25 years old, and runs like a top.  Also +1 for the foot pedal which acts as a variable speed controller - lots of versatility.   I also have a Dremel, with the various attachments - its good, but once you've tried the Foredom its hard to say its great.  
     
     
  18. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in Rotary tool recommendations, preferences   
    Size doesn't matter, really. Most all rotary tools accept a variety of sized collets so a wider range of shaft diameters can be accommodated. (See the black cube collet holder and collets in the lower right hand corner of the posted picture of the Proxxon rotary tool.) Dremel has a Jacobs-type chuck attachment that will accommodate up to 1/8" diameter shanks.
     
    Dremel Rotary Tool Quick Change Collet Nuts (5-Piece) with 1/32 in. Rotary Tool Multi-Pro Chuck-4485+4486 - The Home Depot
     

  19. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from hollowneck in 2022 MODEL SHIPS CALENDAR   
    So it has. From the Latin root verb, specere, "to look" and the suffix, -ulum, "a tool for..." Speculum is the Latin word for "mirror." Supposedly, in the late 1500's and early 1600's they called a similarly functioning instrument of torture a "choke pear." 
     

     
  20. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Rotary tool recommendations, preferences   
    Size doesn't matter, really. Most all rotary tools accept a variety of sized collets so a wider range of shaft diameters can be accommodated. (See the black cube collet holder and collets in the lower right hand corner of the posted picture of the Proxxon rotary tool.) Dremel has a Jacobs-type chuck attachment that will accommodate up to 1/8" diameter shanks.
     
    Dremel Rotary Tool Quick Change Collet Nuts (5-Piece) with 1/32 in. Rotary Tool Multi-Pro Chuck-4485+4486 - The Home Depot
     

  21. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Sasha131 in Rotary tool recommendations, preferences   
    It depends upon your pocketbook. In order of lowest to highest cost, I'd advise one of the following. Don't waste your money on Asian knockoffs. Only buy the name-brand stuff below.
     
    Dremel Moto-tool. The bottom of the line model starts at $40 and they go up from there. Expect to pay $75 to $85 for a top of the line model. Spending a bit more for a model with variable speed is probably a wise move. Buy the self-centering chuck adapter accessory.  Dremel 100-N/7 Single Speed Mini Rotary Tool Kit with 7 Accessories- Hobby Drill, Small Pen Sander, Garden Tool Sharpener, Craft & Jewelry Drill, Black - Power Rotary Tools - Amazon.com
     

     
     
     
    Proxxon Rotary Tool. Starts around $115.00. Like the Dremel but probably better quality construction and its ergonomics are preferred by some. Likely more readily available in the EU than the Dremel. proxxon rotary tool - Bing
     

     
     
    Foredom Flex-shaft tool. Serious money at around $300 and up. Extremely versatile. Industry standard for heavy duty rotary tools. Used by commercial jewelers and dental labs. Everything you'll ever need in a rotary tool. Many different handpieces available. Get the drill chuck handpiece and the collet chuck handpiece (shown) for the greatest convenience and flexibility. The foot pedal is a big plus. Comes in a bench base model or for hanging from a bench-mounted hanger. Your preference. Sometimes available used.  Amazon.com: Foredom 2230, SR motor, Jewelers Kit
     

     
     
    Dental lab engine, any brand. (Wells Model shown.) Expect to pay close to a grand retail for one of these ($750 with foot pedal speed control and handpiece arm plus $250 and up for the handpiece,) but your dentist may have one that he's replaced with an air-turbine handpiece unit and would be willing to give to you. They are a lot of them on the used market as air-turbine and micromotor units have come on the market, and they are sometimes at great prices. (E.g.: $400  Belt Drive Wells Dental Engine set Dental laboratory Model EURI Hobby/Carving | eBay and $100 Super-Dent Rugby Dental Laboratory Engine w/ Arm, Handpiece | eBay) The advantage of the "old school" dental engine is that it has a tremendous speed range (40,000 RPM downward) and good torque at low speeds, unlike other rotary tools. This rotary tool is still the workhorse of dental laboratories and parts and service are widely available, if needed. It excels at very fine work (like filling cavities) with it's wide range of very ergonomic handpieces, including angled ones for working in tight spaces.  It can be rather difficult to do fine work while holding a heavy, fat, Dremel or Proxxon rotary tool. It does what your dentist does inside your mouth, so you should have no problem reaching inside a framed hull to sand and bevel frames! And, if you ever tire of ship modeling, it will always be handy to have around the house to use for "enhanced interrogation techniques."  
     

     
    While others' mileage may differ, I would recommend staying away from 12 volt rotary tools and anything running on batteries. They lack the power to really hog off the material when you want to do that. The same is true for the relatively new "micromotor" rotary tools. As much as they try, the laws of physics just won't permit replacing torque with speed. When it comes to power tools, the emphasis has always to be on power. 
     
    As for burs and abrasives, note that the quality of those made for the professional jewelry manufacturing industry and the dental professionals will be of much higher quality than anything that uses the word "hobby" in their advertising and they will often be less expensive and longer lasting. Look for them in the online catalogs. They don't sell them in brick and mortar stores.
     
    Shop around. This stuff goes on sale regularly. As interesting as it is to read their catalogs, the "hobby" mail order outfits are the most expensive retailers of all with this stuff, although, once in a blue moon, they do offer significant discounts.
     
    Don't forget, always buy the best tool you can afford. It will last you a good long time, maybe even longer than you do, and if you find you don't need it anymore, you can almost always sell it for something reasonable. Cheap tools actually cost you more because you have to keep buying them over and over again. (Don't ask me how I know this!  )
     
    Oh, and did I say, "Don't buy Asian knock-offs of Dremel and Foredom-type tools." There are lots of them on the market these days.  They may look identical and be a quarter the price, but they aren't the same. ("Cleek's Law" #27: "Never buy anything with a cord from Horror Fright!") Rotary tools live hard lives and if they are to live long lives, they have to be made of quality materials. There's no point in spending the money on a machine that will burn its bearings out in six or eight months of occasional use!
  22. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in Rotary tool recommendations, preferences   
    It depends upon your pocketbook. In order of lowest to highest cost, I'd advise one of the following. Don't waste your money on Asian knockoffs. Only buy the name-brand stuff below.
     
    Dremel Moto-tool. The bottom of the line model starts at $40 and they go up from there. Expect to pay $75 to $85 for a top of the line model. Spending a bit more for a model with variable speed is probably a wise move. Buy the self-centering chuck adapter accessory.  Dremel 100-N/7 Single Speed Mini Rotary Tool Kit with 7 Accessories- Hobby Drill, Small Pen Sander, Garden Tool Sharpener, Craft & Jewelry Drill, Black - Power Rotary Tools - Amazon.com
     

     
     
     
    Proxxon Rotary Tool. Starts around $115.00. Like the Dremel but probably better quality construction and its ergonomics are preferred by some. Likely more readily available in the EU than the Dremel. proxxon rotary tool - Bing
     

     
     
    Foredom Flex-shaft tool. Serious money at around $300 and up. Extremely versatile. Industry standard for heavy duty rotary tools. Used by commercial jewelers and dental labs. Everything you'll ever need in a rotary tool. Many different handpieces available. Get the drill chuck handpiece and the collet chuck handpiece (shown) for the greatest convenience and flexibility. The foot pedal is a big plus. Comes in a bench base model or for hanging from a bench-mounted hanger. Your preference. Sometimes available used.  Amazon.com: Foredom 2230, SR motor, Jewelers Kit
     

     
     
    Dental lab engine, any brand. (Wells Model shown.) Expect to pay close to a grand retail for one of these ($750 with foot pedal speed control and handpiece arm plus $250 and up for the handpiece,) but your dentist may have one that he's replaced with an air-turbine handpiece unit and would be willing to give to you. They are a lot of them on the used market as air-turbine and micromotor units have come on the market, and they are sometimes at great prices. (E.g.: $400  Belt Drive Wells Dental Engine set Dental laboratory Model EURI Hobby/Carving | eBay and $100 Super-Dent Rugby Dental Laboratory Engine w/ Arm, Handpiece | eBay) The advantage of the "old school" dental engine is that it has a tremendous speed range (40,000 RPM downward) and good torque at low speeds, unlike other rotary tools. This rotary tool is still the workhorse of dental laboratories and parts and service are widely available, if needed. It excels at very fine work (like filling cavities) with it's wide range of very ergonomic handpieces, including angled ones for working in tight spaces.  It can be rather difficult to do fine work while holding a heavy, fat, Dremel or Proxxon rotary tool. It does what your dentist does inside your mouth, so you should have no problem reaching inside a framed hull to sand and bevel frames! And, if you ever tire of ship modeling, it will always be handy to have around the house to use for "enhanced interrogation techniques."  
     

     
    While others' mileage may differ, I would recommend staying away from 12 volt rotary tools and anything running on batteries. They lack the power to really hog off the material when you want to do that. The same is true for the relatively new "micromotor" rotary tools. As much as they try, the laws of physics just won't permit replacing torque with speed. When it comes to power tools, the emphasis has always to be on power. 
     
    As for burs and abrasives, note that the quality of those made for the professional jewelry manufacturing industry and the dental professionals will be of much higher quality than anything that uses the word "hobby" in their advertising and they will often be less expensive and longer lasting. Look for them in the online catalogs. They don't sell them in brick and mortar stores.
     
    Shop around. This stuff goes on sale regularly. As interesting as it is to read their catalogs, the "hobby" mail order outfits are the most expensive retailers of all with this stuff, although, once in a blue moon, they do offer significant discounts.
     
    Don't forget, always buy the best tool you can afford. It will last you a good long time, maybe even longer than you do, and if you find you don't need it anymore, you can almost always sell it for something reasonable. Cheap tools actually cost you more because you have to keep buying them over and over again. (Don't ask me how I know this!  )
     
    Oh, and did I say, "Don't buy Asian knock-offs of Dremel and Foredom-type tools." There are lots of them on the market these days.  They may look identical and be a quarter the price, but they aren't the same. ("Cleek's Law" #27: "Never buy anything with a cord from Horror Fright!") Rotary tools live hard lives and if they are to live long lives, they have to be made of quality materials. There's no point in spending the money on a machine that will burn its bearings out in six or eight months of occasional use!
  23. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from RichardG in Rotary tool recommendations, preferences   
    It depends upon your pocketbook. In order of lowest to highest cost, I'd advise one of the following. Don't waste your money on Asian knockoffs. Only buy the name-brand stuff below.
     
    Dremel Moto-tool. The bottom of the line model starts at $40 and they go up from there. Expect to pay $75 to $85 for a top of the line model. Spending a bit more for a model with variable speed is probably a wise move. Buy the self-centering chuck adapter accessory.  Dremel 100-N/7 Single Speed Mini Rotary Tool Kit with 7 Accessories- Hobby Drill, Small Pen Sander, Garden Tool Sharpener, Craft & Jewelry Drill, Black - Power Rotary Tools - Amazon.com
     

     
     
     
    Proxxon Rotary Tool. Starts around $115.00. Like the Dremel but probably better quality construction and its ergonomics are preferred by some. Likely more readily available in the EU than the Dremel. proxxon rotary tool - Bing
     

     
     
    Foredom Flex-shaft tool. Serious money at around $300 and up. Extremely versatile. Industry standard for heavy duty rotary tools. Used by commercial jewelers and dental labs. Everything you'll ever need in a rotary tool. Many different handpieces available. Get the drill chuck handpiece and the collet chuck handpiece (shown) for the greatest convenience and flexibility. The foot pedal is a big plus. Comes in a bench base model or for hanging from a bench-mounted hanger. Your preference. Sometimes available used.  Amazon.com: Foredom 2230, SR motor, Jewelers Kit
     

     
     
    Dental lab engine, any brand. (Wells Model shown.) Expect to pay close to a grand retail for one of these ($750 with foot pedal speed control and handpiece arm plus $250 and up for the handpiece,) but your dentist may have one that he's replaced with an air-turbine handpiece unit and would be willing to give to you. They are a lot of them on the used market as air-turbine and micromotor units have come on the market, and they are sometimes at great prices. (E.g.: $400  Belt Drive Wells Dental Engine set Dental laboratory Model EURI Hobby/Carving | eBay and $100 Super-Dent Rugby Dental Laboratory Engine w/ Arm, Handpiece | eBay) The advantage of the "old school" dental engine is that it has a tremendous speed range (40,000 RPM downward) and good torque at low speeds, unlike other rotary tools. This rotary tool is still the workhorse of dental laboratories and parts and service are widely available, if needed. It excels at very fine work (like filling cavities) with it's wide range of very ergonomic handpieces, including angled ones for working in tight spaces.  It can be rather difficult to do fine work while holding a heavy, fat, Dremel or Proxxon rotary tool. It does what your dentist does inside your mouth, so you should have no problem reaching inside a framed hull to sand and bevel frames! And, if you ever tire of ship modeling, it will always be handy to have around the house to use for "enhanced interrogation techniques."  
     

     
    While others' mileage may differ, I would recommend staying away from 12 volt rotary tools and anything running on batteries. They lack the power to really hog off the material when you want to do that. The same is true for the relatively new "micromotor" rotary tools. As much as they try, the laws of physics just won't permit replacing torque with speed. When it comes to power tools, the emphasis has always to be on power. 
     
    As for burs and abrasives, note that the quality of those made for the professional jewelry manufacturing industry and the dental professionals will be of much higher quality than anything that uses the word "hobby" in their advertising and they will often be less expensive and longer lasting. Look for them in the online catalogs. They don't sell them in brick and mortar stores.
     
    Shop around. This stuff goes on sale regularly. As interesting as it is to read their catalogs, the "hobby" mail order outfits are the most expensive retailers of all with this stuff, although, once in a blue moon, they do offer significant discounts.
     
    Don't forget, always buy the best tool you can afford. It will last you a good long time, maybe even longer than you do, and if you find you don't need it anymore, you can almost always sell it for something reasonable. Cheap tools actually cost you more because you have to keep buying them over and over again. (Don't ask me how I know this!  )
     
    Oh, and did I say, "Don't buy Asian knock-offs of Dremel and Foredom-type tools." There are lots of them on the market these days.  They may look identical and be a quarter the price, but they aren't the same. ("Cleek's Law" #27: "Never buy anything with a cord from Horror Fright!") Rotary tools live hard lives and if they are to live long lives, they have to be made of quality materials. There's no point in spending the money on a machine that will burn its bearings out in six or eight months of occasional use!
  24. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from JpR62 in Rotary tool recommendations, preferences   
    It depends upon your pocketbook. In order of lowest to highest cost, I'd advise one of the following. Don't waste your money on Asian knockoffs. Only buy the name-brand stuff below.
     
    Dremel Moto-tool. The bottom of the line model starts at $40 and they go up from there. Expect to pay $75 to $85 for a top of the line model. Spending a bit more for a model with variable speed is probably a wise move. Buy the self-centering chuck adapter accessory.  Dremel 100-N/7 Single Speed Mini Rotary Tool Kit with 7 Accessories- Hobby Drill, Small Pen Sander, Garden Tool Sharpener, Craft & Jewelry Drill, Black - Power Rotary Tools - Amazon.com
     

     
     
     
    Proxxon Rotary Tool. Starts around $115.00. Like the Dremel but probably better quality construction and its ergonomics are preferred by some. Likely more readily available in the EU than the Dremel. proxxon rotary tool - Bing
     

     
     
    Foredom Flex-shaft tool. Serious money at around $300 and up. Extremely versatile. Industry standard for heavy duty rotary tools. Used by commercial jewelers and dental labs. Everything you'll ever need in a rotary tool. Many different handpieces available. Get the drill chuck handpiece and the collet chuck handpiece (shown) for the greatest convenience and flexibility. The foot pedal is a big plus. Comes in a bench base model or for hanging from a bench-mounted hanger. Your preference. Sometimes available used.  Amazon.com: Foredom 2230, SR motor, Jewelers Kit
     

     
     
    Dental lab engine, any brand. (Wells Model shown.) Expect to pay close to a grand retail for one of these ($750 with foot pedal speed control and handpiece arm plus $250 and up for the handpiece,) but your dentist may have one that he's replaced with an air-turbine handpiece unit and would be willing to give to you. They are a lot of them on the used market as air-turbine and micromotor units have come on the market, and they are sometimes at great prices. (E.g.: $400  Belt Drive Wells Dental Engine set Dental laboratory Model EURI Hobby/Carving | eBay and $100 Super-Dent Rugby Dental Laboratory Engine w/ Arm, Handpiece | eBay) The advantage of the "old school" dental engine is that it has a tremendous speed range (40,000 RPM downward) and good torque at low speeds, unlike other rotary tools. This rotary tool is still the workhorse of dental laboratories and parts and service are widely available, if needed. It excels at very fine work (like filling cavities) with it's wide range of very ergonomic handpieces, including angled ones for working in tight spaces.  It can be rather difficult to do fine work while holding a heavy, fat, Dremel or Proxxon rotary tool. It does what your dentist does inside your mouth, so you should have no problem reaching inside a framed hull to sand and bevel frames! And, if you ever tire of ship modeling, it will always be handy to have around the house to use for "enhanced interrogation techniques."  
     

     
    While others' mileage may differ, I would recommend staying away from 12 volt rotary tools and anything running on batteries. They lack the power to really hog off the material when you want to do that. The same is true for the relatively new "micromotor" rotary tools. As much as they try, the laws of physics just won't permit replacing torque with speed. When it comes to power tools, the emphasis has always to be on power. 
     
    As for burs and abrasives, note that the quality of those made for the professional jewelry manufacturing industry and the dental professionals will be of much higher quality than anything that uses the word "hobby" in their advertising and they will often be less expensive and longer lasting. Look for them in the online catalogs. They don't sell them in brick and mortar stores.
     
    Shop around. This stuff goes on sale regularly. As interesting as it is to read their catalogs, the "hobby" mail order outfits are the most expensive retailers of all with this stuff, although, once in a blue moon, they do offer significant discounts.
     
    Don't forget, always buy the best tool you can afford. It will last you a good long time, maybe even longer than you do, and if you find you don't need it anymore, you can almost always sell it for something reasonable. Cheap tools actually cost you more because you have to keep buying them over and over again. (Don't ask me how I know this!  )
     
    Oh, and did I say, "Don't buy Asian knock-offs of Dremel and Foredom-type tools." There are lots of them on the market these days.  They may look identical and be a quarter the price, but they aren't the same. ("Cleek's Law" #27: "Never buy anything with a cord from Horror Fright!") Rotary tools live hard lives and if they are to live long lives, they have to be made of quality materials. There's no point in spending the money on a machine that will burn its bearings out in six or eight months of occasional use!
  25. Thanks!
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from bruce d in Rotary tool recommendations, preferences   
    It depends upon your pocketbook. In order of lowest to highest cost, I'd advise one of the following. Don't waste your money on Asian knockoffs. Only buy the name-brand stuff below.
     
    Dremel Moto-tool. The bottom of the line model starts at $40 and they go up from there. Expect to pay $75 to $85 for a top of the line model. Spending a bit more for a model with variable speed is probably a wise move. Buy the self-centering chuck adapter accessory.  Dremel 100-N/7 Single Speed Mini Rotary Tool Kit with 7 Accessories- Hobby Drill, Small Pen Sander, Garden Tool Sharpener, Craft & Jewelry Drill, Black - Power Rotary Tools - Amazon.com
     

     
     
     
    Proxxon Rotary Tool. Starts around $115.00. Like the Dremel but probably better quality construction and its ergonomics are preferred by some. Likely more readily available in the EU than the Dremel. proxxon rotary tool - Bing
     

     
     
    Foredom Flex-shaft tool. Serious money at around $300 and up. Extremely versatile. Industry standard for heavy duty rotary tools. Used by commercial jewelers and dental labs. Everything you'll ever need in a rotary tool. Many different handpieces available. Get the drill chuck handpiece and the collet chuck handpiece (shown) for the greatest convenience and flexibility. The foot pedal is a big plus. Comes in a bench base model or for hanging from a bench-mounted hanger. Your preference. Sometimes available used.  Amazon.com: Foredom 2230, SR motor, Jewelers Kit
     

     
     
    Dental lab engine, any brand. (Wells Model shown.) Expect to pay close to a grand retail for one of these ($750 with foot pedal speed control and handpiece arm plus $250 and up for the handpiece,) but your dentist may have one that he's replaced with an air-turbine handpiece unit and would be willing to give to you. They are a lot of them on the used market as air-turbine and micromotor units have come on the market, and they are sometimes at great prices. (E.g.: $400  Belt Drive Wells Dental Engine set Dental laboratory Model EURI Hobby/Carving | eBay and $100 Super-Dent Rugby Dental Laboratory Engine w/ Arm, Handpiece | eBay) The advantage of the "old school" dental engine is that it has a tremendous speed range (40,000 RPM downward) and good torque at low speeds, unlike other rotary tools. This rotary tool is still the workhorse of dental laboratories and parts and service are widely available, if needed. It excels at very fine work (like filling cavities) with it's wide range of very ergonomic handpieces, including angled ones for working in tight spaces.  It can be rather difficult to do fine work while holding a heavy, fat, Dremel or Proxxon rotary tool. It does what your dentist does inside your mouth, so you should have no problem reaching inside a framed hull to sand and bevel frames! And, if you ever tire of ship modeling, it will always be handy to have around the house to use for "enhanced interrogation techniques."  
     

     
    While others' mileage may differ, I would recommend staying away from 12 volt rotary tools and anything running on batteries. They lack the power to really hog off the material when you want to do that. The same is true for the relatively new "micromotor" rotary tools. As much as they try, the laws of physics just won't permit replacing torque with speed. When it comes to power tools, the emphasis has always to be on power. 
     
    As for burs and abrasives, note that the quality of those made for the professional jewelry manufacturing industry and the dental professionals will be of much higher quality than anything that uses the word "hobby" in their advertising and they will often be less expensive and longer lasting. Look for them in the online catalogs. They don't sell them in brick and mortar stores.
     
    Shop around. This stuff goes on sale regularly. As interesting as it is to read their catalogs, the "hobby" mail order outfits are the most expensive retailers of all with this stuff, although, once in a blue moon, they do offer significant discounts.
     
    Don't forget, always buy the best tool you can afford. It will last you a good long time, maybe even longer than you do, and if you find you don't need it anymore, you can almost always sell it for something reasonable. Cheap tools actually cost you more because you have to keep buying them over and over again. (Don't ask me how I know this!  )
     
    Oh, and did I say, "Don't buy Asian knock-offs of Dremel and Foredom-type tools." There are lots of them on the market these days.  They may look identical and be a quarter the price, but they aren't the same. ("Cleek's Law" #27: "Never buy anything with a cord from Horror Fright!") Rotary tools live hard lives and if they are to live long lives, they have to be made of quality materials. There's no point in spending the money on a machine that will burn its bearings out in six or eight months of occasional use!
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