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Bob Cleek

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  1. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in Ideas on staining an finishing   
    "Real life" deck planking is not stained. Small boat decks are sometimes oiled, but, for larger vessels, decks are left unfinished. They are scrubbed clean regularly and in olden times they were "holy-stonned," meaning that they were "sanded" with square stone blocks, to remove accumulations of tar which dripped from the rigging when applied and even when it liquified in the heat of the tropics. Decks were laid of a single species of wood and so should not have appeared much different in color from one to the other. (Of course, if repairs were made and portions of decking replaced, it may vary slightly in appearance.) On a model, at scale, a deck should be a single color. A model's deck can, of course, be stained if the modeler wishes to use a species of wood that is of a lighter color than the real deck they are portraying. 
     
    The cabin top in the posted photo appears to have an edge of a species different than the planks in the middle of the surrounding edge frame. They could, also, be of the same species, in this case quite possible teak, which has some variation in color, depending upon the subspecies of teak used. The difference in color seen in the cabin top in the picture appears to be the result of sloppy maintenance more than anything else. The top is varnished and it appears the varnish was applied without the teak being properly stripped and bleached before re-varnishing, leaving some weathered differently than others.
     
    Properly, the "bright" (unpainted) wood, whether it be bare or varnished, should be of the same color. Where different colored wood is used for accents (as perhaps with the edge framing of the cabin top here,) that would require staining separately, either by careful masking, or staining separately before assembly. Other's mileage may vary, but I really see no reason to apply "wipe on poly" on bright wood on a model and I suppose that's a story for another night. (It's fine for bringing up the grain and figuring, but it's a rare wood species that benefits having it's grain or figuring accented at modeling scales, particularly if one has paid the big bucks for fine wood because of its even coloring.) 
     
    Below: An (apparently) unfinished deck. The slight variations in color are the result of planks coming from different trees or parts of trees. At "scale viewing distance," this color variation would not be visible. The deck would appear a single color. Note how at "scale viewing distance," i.e. the far forward area of the deck, the color of the wood is seen as uniform and the black seam stopping is barely visible.
     

  2. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Ideas on staining an finishing   
    "Real life" deck planking is not stained. Small boat decks are sometimes oiled, but, for larger vessels, decks are left unfinished. They are scrubbed clean regularly and in olden times they were "holy-stonned," meaning that they were "sanded" with square stone blocks, to remove accumulations of tar which dripped from the rigging when applied and even when it liquified in the heat of the tropics. Decks were laid of a single species of wood and so should not have appeared much different in color from one to the other. (Of course, if repairs were made and portions of decking replaced, it may vary slightly in appearance.) On a model, at scale, a deck should be a single color. A model's deck can, of course, be stained if the modeler wishes to use a species of wood that is of a lighter color than the real deck they are portraying. 
     
    The cabin top in the posted photo appears to have an edge of a species different than the planks in the middle of the surrounding edge frame. They could, also, be of the same species, in this case quite possible teak, which has some variation in color, depending upon the subspecies of teak used. The difference in color seen in the cabin top in the picture appears to be the result of sloppy maintenance more than anything else. The top is varnished and it appears the varnish was applied without the teak being properly stripped and bleached before re-varnishing, leaving some weathered differently than others.
     
    Properly, the "bright" (unpainted) wood, whether it be bare or varnished, should be of the same color. Where different colored wood is used for accents (as perhaps with the edge framing of the cabin top here,) that would require staining separately, either by careful masking, or staining separately before assembly. Other's mileage may vary, but I really see no reason to apply "wipe on poly" on bright wood on a model and I suppose that's a story for another night. (It's fine for bringing up the grain and figuring, but it's a rare wood species that benefits having it's grain or figuring accented at modeling scales, particularly if one has paid the big bucks for fine wood because of its even coloring.) 
     
    Below: An (apparently) unfinished deck. The slight variations in color are the result of planks coming from different trees or parts of trees. At "scale viewing distance," this color variation would not be visible. The deck would appear a single color. Note how at "scale viewing distance," i.e. the far forward area of the deck, the color of the wood is seen as uniform and the black seam stopping is barely visible.
     

  3. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Roger Pellett in Seeking Guidance on “off-white” paint for jotika/caldercraft hull   
    The white stuff used in the 1700’s was by no means a standard color.  It would have been mixed up in accordance with the ideas of the painter.  Ingredients such as tallow, sulphur, and white lead would have given different shades from batch to batch ranging from a very light grey to a tint of yellow.  
     
    Start with white and add grey, yellow, tan,etc. until it looks right.
     
    Roger
  4. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to wefalck in 'Vallejo' v 'Admiralty' paint brands - your views appreciated   
    Vallejo has been around catering for artists for a long time, so I think they know what they are doing. I use their Model Air range also for brush-painting, when washes are required or the build of thin layers of paint - obviates the need for dilution. However, I am working on small models only, so the higher price for less pigment is irrelevant.
     
    I don't think colour-matching to some historical prototype is really relevant in our realm, as we mostly don't actually know what colours exactly were used and how the respective paints were mixed up from what components. So this is all rather speculative the further you go back in history, particularly in the time before the 1920s, when the first attempts at standardisation were made.
  5. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to wefalck in Help painting hull lines   
    To make matters a bit more complicated: in the old days waterlines often were not laid out along the line that you would have, when the hull rests in the water; rather they were slightly raised at the bow and stern. This was done for three reasons, it gives the hull a more 'dynamic' look,  it also visually cancels out any 'hogging' of the hull due to older age, and finally it counteracts the visual impression that the waterline is bent downwards at the ends, when comparing it to the upsweep of wales and the sheer-line.
     
    The craftsmen of old (the sign-makers and coach-painters in particular) used very long-haired brushes to draw lines. Some modern car- and motorcycle painters still use this technique of 'lining', which requires a lot of practice.
     
    There are also specialist tools for this, which basically consist of wheel onto which paint is dispensed from a reservoir. The tools are popular among model railway and steam-engine builders, where lining occurs frequently.
     
    A further option are waterslide transfers again from the realm of model railway enthusiasts. They do straight lines in various widths and colours. For white lines one may cut these also from 'decal' sheets with a white background - or paint the transparent ones in the desired colour and cut them to width afterwards.
  6. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to jimbyr in Model shop bandsaw choice?   
    Tooter
     
    I have a Grizzly GO555 14" bandsaw.  Have had it for 18 years,  cast iron table good fence ball bearing guides and can change blades in 2 minutes.  Good saw.  When I bought it it was 400 bucks,  now it's 795.00
     
    regards
    Jim
     
     
  7. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Roger Pellett in Model shop bandsaw choice?   
    Do not overlook full sized old tools.  IMHO they are preferable to new ones for several reasons:
    First, sturdy construction.  They have more machined cast iron and little or no plastic.
    Belt driven.  Motors are easily replaced or switched to high HP if you decide to do so.
    Fewer propriety parts.  Replacements like threaded fasteners can be found at the local Hardware store.
    Availability of a wide variety of locally sourced blades.  A 14in bandsaw uses a standard 93-3/4in blade.
     
    My 14in bandsaw is 45 years old and still going strong.  I have added a more powerful motor (belt driven) and have replaced the tires, tension spring and guide blocks, all with generic aftermarket parts.  I also replaced all adjustment thumb screws with socket head cap screws.  I doubt if any of the new small 9in saws will still be providing like new performance after 45 years of use.
     
    Roger
  8. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from rooster in Help painting hull lines   
    I realize this is probably more than most would ever want to know about painting stripes on models, but it's a subject that doesn't seem to have been addressed here lately and I type faster than a lot of people talk, so here it is.
     
    Aside from the waterline on the X-Y axis, there aren't many straight lines on a seagoing vessel. That said, waterlines can be marked simply by mounting the hull on a flat surface in the "floating" attitude (sometimes there is considerable rake in the keel, particularly in small sailing vessels.) Then take a block of wood of suitable height with a pencil laid on top of it and just run the block around the hull using the pencil laying on the block to mark the waterline. Note that waterlines are not always of constant width. The eye sees the stripe as of a uniform thickness, but, as the stripe is generally on an inclined surface, its width on the hull has to account for that. When you line off a boot stripe with your block and pencil, you'll note that where the hull curves, the top and bottom edges of the stripe will not be parallel. For example, a boot stripe at the tuck of the stern can widen significantly. Another perspective issue is the shape of the hull overall. If a viewer is standing amidships and looking at the boot stripe, the boot stripe at the bow, and perhaps at the stern, will be farther from the viewer's eye than the stripe amidships because the bow, and perhaps the stern, narrow as the hull approaches its ends. For this reason, boot stripes often look better if they are laid out to gradually widen slightly as they approach the bow. This avoids the optical illusion that the boot stripe is narrowing as it runs towards the bow. These adjustments must be done "by eye" when masking the stripes.
     
    As for painting, use a "fine line" masking tape to lay out the lines and paint between the masked areas. Don't use regular house painter's masking tape. The paint will likely run under the paint and make a mess. 3M's Fine Line Tape is a good brand. I believe Tamaya model paints also makes a fine line masking tape. Others have used automotive striping tape, but I've found it's often too thick and out of scale and color selections are limited. A bit of practice is advised before committing to tape and paint the model's hull. The learning curve is short and not steep, but you don't want to mess up the paint job on the model by making that your first try!
     
    Fine line tape can be purchased at art supply stores: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40067079/  Buy the 1/4" wide tape and then use regular masking tape on top of that to mask a wider area, if need be.  The stuff is not cheap! Thinner is cheaper. About $30.00 a roll! A roll will probably last a lifetime of modeling, though. (Tamaya tape is less expensive, but I don't have any personal experience with it. I've read good reviews of it. Perhaps others can comment. 3M Fine Line is the industry standard for automotive and aircraft painters.) 
     
    Be sure to store all masking tape, and especially fine line tape, in zip-lock plastic bags, which retard their drying out and significantly extend their shelf-life to practically forever.  Also, never ever lay a roll of any type of masking tape down on its side on your bench top. Always replace it in its zip-lock bag. Laying a roll of tape on its side will cause it to pick up dust and dirt on the side of the tape, which ruins it because the dust and dirt adhering to the edge of the tape will make it impossible to yield a razor sharp line and will permit  paint to seep beneath the edge of the tape.
     
    There are other techniques for painting stripes, including using special pin-striping brushes freehand with One Shot sign paint, etc., etc., but the use of fine line tape is the only fool-proof method I know. Even among the pros, it's a rare "fist" who can do it well freehand with a brush.
     
     
     
     
     
  9. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from GrandpaPhil in Galway Hooker by Gbmodeler - FINISHED - 1:48 scale - a small Irish fishing boat from the late 1800s   
    Great job on such a relatively small scale model!
     
    One point which is worthy of mention is that you will likely find it necessary to shorten the length of your tiller. Characteristically, hookers have short tillers (which aren't helped by their notorious weather helm to which they owe their great weatherliness.) Tillers must be short to clear the mainsheet tackle which is attached to the middle, rather than the end of the boom with blocks secured to eyebolts secured to the sole framing. Commander Horner's lines published by Dixon Kemp and the earliest drawn lines I'm aware are extant, being done sometime in the late 1800's, show the characteristic bobbed tiller, although his single mainsheet tackle is not seen on many extant hookers, which predominantly extend the mainsheet purchase through separate blocks spread out on the boom and sole.
     


     
     
    You may also wish to note another characteristic detail: the headstay is not fastened to an eyebolt in the stemhead, but, rather, the stemhead is drilled with a number of holes to serve as fairleads for a lanyard and set up with a bullseye or deadeye on the stay, depending on the size of the boat. Similarly, the smaller boats frequently do not employ deadeyes on their shrouds, instead using a simple lashing. Usually, a hooker with single shrouds will use a simple lashing, while those with two shrouds will opt for deadeyes and lanyards.
     

     
     
    Headstay deadeye with frapped lanyards, as is common. Note the Dyneema / AmSteel / Spectra-type HMWPE rope used for the headstay. Some of the present-day hookers are using this super-strength rope for standing rigging.)

  10. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Chuck in Question about guidelines   
    We will rewrite it to make it clearer.....
  11. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Chuck in Question about guidelines   
    Yes you can send folks here by posting a link to a log on MSW.....and yes you can post your stuff anywhere,  its yours.   This rule simply lets folks know that you cant take photos and logs from other people/members and post them outside of MSW....without asking them for permission first.
     
    For example....you cant copy my plans and build log photos for the Medway Longboat group on another forum without first getting permission from me....you shouldnt save any PDF files or chapters created here for such builds on other forums.   You cant duplicate or post photos of another members work without asking them first for permission.  Its to protect our members....you guys from having your photos and documents stolen without your knowledge or approval.  Certainly you can see why that is the case.   
     
    Chuck
  12. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from bridgman in Question about guidelines   
    I don't have a dog in the fight, but if I did, my question would be, "Does it mean one cannot reference a thread in this forum in another forum by posting a link to a thread in this forum?" If that is what it means, how does the MSW administration deal with search engines? If you google, "How to plank a ship model?" once you get past the paid advertisements and the YouTube videos, you start hitting MSW material, e.g.: https://modelshipworldforum.com/resources/Framing_and_Planking/plankingprojectbeginners.pdf; Google is full of ads, of course, and is rapidly approaching uselessness, save for making online purchases, but a few MSW threads are there. Bing has many more. It's a better search engine if you are looking for information instead of online retailers. It sure looks like the search engines are violating this guideline big time. Here's just a few examples:
     
     

     


     


  13. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from thibaultron in Question about guidelines   
    I don't have a dog in the fight, but if I did, my question would be, "Does it mean one cannot reference a thread in this forum in another forum by posting a link to a thread in this forum?" If that is what it means, how does the MSW administration deal with search engines? If you google, "How to plank a ship model?" once you get past the paid advertisements and the YouTube videos, you start hitting MSW material, e.g.: https://modelshipworldforum.com/resources/Framing_and_Planking/plankingprojectbeginners.pdf; Google is full of ads, of course, and is rapidly approaching uselessness, save for making online purchases, but a few MSW threads are there. Bing has many more. It's a better search engine if you are looking for information instead of online retailers. It sure looks like the search engines are violating this guideline big time. Here's just a few examples:
     
     

     


     


  14. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Planking Vice   
    I've found my Zyliss "Swiss Army" vise is very handy for holding keels when planking (along with a lot of other stuff.). Unfortunately, they are quite expensive and the Chinese knock-offs are junk. (Fear not, I never pay retail if I can avoid it.  ) I hear the"real" ones are still made in Switzerland where they were developed for field use by the Swiss Army and now marked as the "SwissRex System" Workshop." https://www.rexmetall.ch/System-Workshop-SWISSREX:::384.html?language=en They appear used on eBay, priced under $100 used, but you have to make sure you are not missing any of the attachments (replacements available online still.  and aren't getting a "Gripmaster" or "Mr. Strong" Chinese counterfeit. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2060353.m570.l1313&_nkw=zyliss+vise&_sacat=0  https://advanced-machinery.myshopify.com/collections/portable-clamping-system-parts
     
     
    I've got my eye on a Stanley 83-069 Multi-Angle Vise for planking smaller hulls. At around $55, it's a lot of well-engineered iron and the ball joint design is the best I've seen. (Some similar vises I've used seem to fall short on the ball joint design, such as the Dremel model. 
     

    https://www.amazon.com/Stanley-1-83-069-MaxSteel-Multi-Yellow/dp/B001HBS0I0/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=stanley+vise&qid=1625607812&s=hi&sr=1-6
     
    For shaping planks, I use plane vise jaws or shop-made jigs as needed. 
     
     
  15. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Modifying a saw blade   
    There's a reason for that spine on the back of that blade. It's quite possible that the blade is quite brittle as saw blades go. There's less need for more expensive steel to be used if the blade is going to have a reinforced back and harder steel stays sharp longer. You might find it snapping the first time the slightest bend is put in it/ Not sure what steel it's made of, but "just sayin'" The commercial hobby knife keyhole saw blades are so cheap, I can't see the point of cutting up a decent saw like you have. It's just not cost effective.
  16. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from thibaultron in Fiberglass a boat Hull   
    It was basically a joke. Kevlar, added to epoxy, yields an expremely impact-resistant cured resin material used in bullet-proof personnel armor plate vests. U.S Army combat helmets are now made of kevlar and epoxy material. Trust me, you don't need kevlar on your RC boat bottom. The same goes for the spectrum of special additives available, such as carbon fiber, which will yield an epoxy/carbon material which is lightweight and extremely strong. It's used for sophisticated state-of-the-art racing boat masts and bicycle frames, etc. (I've seen carbon fiber epoxy being finish sanded. The dust goes everywhere and is much like graphite powder. You'll look like an old time coal miner at quitting time in the mine if you work with that stuff.)
     
    The schedule I recommended above is for as strong a hull sheathing as I can imagine any RC boat would ever need. (Glass cloth or mat will add strength to a sheathed hull, to be sure, but it won't increase the impact resistance much without laying it on thick and IMHO I don't think it's worth fiddling with, although the hull pictured above is done very nicely.) Don't forget that many successful wooden sailing models have been built with nothing but wood, putty, and shellac primer coating, then undercoating and enamel paint and do just fine. They don't spend that much time in the water to begin with and are stored indoors, so they don't need much more. I have a three-masted schooner sailing model that's around a hundred years old now in my shop for a restoration job. (Do not ever let a commercial shipping outfit pack a ship model for shipping! When I get around to starting the job, I'll post pictures of what happens when you put a model in a big box and then fill the dead space with packing peanuts... broken spars and rigging all around.) The plank on frame hull appears to have been painted with a common early 20th Century enamel paint which has held up very well. I won't be repainting because the owner wishes this family heirloom built by a relative Maine Cape Horn sailor to retain its antique patina. There is some minor cracking of the paint along the plank seams, to be expected when an uncased plank on frame model spends that much time on a mantle or window sill, but no light showing between the planks. I expect the model would float today without significant leaking if put to the test. 
     
    One more caveat to mention in passing is that glass-reinforced fabric and mat sheathing may exponentially complicate repairs if catastropic hull damage occurs. One can always throw more resin and glass on it and sand (sort of) fair, but deconstruction for "as new" repairs becomes far more complicated if it is to be done right.
  17. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from thibaultron in Modifying a saw blade   
    There's a reason for that spine on the back of that blade. It's quite possible that the blade is quite brittle as saw blades go. There's less need for more expensive steel to be used if the blade is going to have a reinforced back and harder steel stays sharp longer. You might find it snapping the first time the slightest bend is put in it/ Not sure what steel it's made of, but "just sayin'" The commercial hobby knife keyhole saw blades are so cheap, I can't see the point of cutting up a decent saw like you have. It's just not cost effective.
  18. Thanks!
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from thibaultron in Planking Vice   
    I've found my Zyliss "Swiss Army" vise is very handy for holding keels when planking (along with a lot of other stuff.). Unfortunately, they are quite expensive and the Chinese knock-offs are junk. (Fear not, I never pay retail if I can avoid it.  ) I hear the"real" ones are still made in Switzerland where they were developed for field use by the Swiss Army and now marked as the "SwissRex System" Workshop." https://www.rexmetall.ch/System-Workshop-SWISSREX:::384.html?language=en They appear used on eBay, priced under $100 used, but you have to make sure you are not missing any of the attachments (replacements available online still.  and aren't getting a "Gripmaster" or "Mr. Strong" Chinese counterfeit. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2060353.m570.l1313&_nkw=zyliss+vise&_sacat=0  https://advanced-machinery.myshopify.com/collections/portable-clamping-system-parts
     
     
    I've got my eye on a Stanley 83-069 Multi-Angle Vise for planking smaller hulls. At around $55, it's a lot of well-engineered iron and the ball joint design is the best I've seen. (Some similar vises I've used seem to fall short on the ball joint design, such as the Dremel model. 
     

    https://www.amazon.com/Stanley-1-83-069-MaxSteel-Multi-Yellow/dp/B001HBS0I0/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=stanley+vise&qid=1625607812&s=hi&sr=1-6
     
    For shaping planks, I use plane vise jaws or shop-made jigs as needed. 
     
     
  19. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in Planking Vice   
    I've found my Zyliss "Swiss Army" vise is very handy for holding keels when planking (along with a lot of other stuff.). Unfortunately, they are quite expensive and the Chinese knock-offs are junk. (Fear not, I never pay retail if I can avoid it.  ) I hear the"real" ones are still made in Switzerland where they were developed for field use by the Swiss Army and now marked as the "SwissRex System" Workshop." https://www.rexmetall.ch/System-Workshop-SWISSREX:::384.html?language=en They appear used on eBay, priced under $100 used, but you have to make sure you are not missing any of the attachments (replacements available online still.  and aren't getting a "Gripmaster" or "Mr. Strong" Chinese counterfeit. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2060353.m570.l1313&_nkw=zyliss+vise&_sacat=0  https://advanced-machinery.myshopify.com/collections/portable-clamping-system-parts
     
     
    I've got my eye on a Stanley 83-069 Multi-Angle Vise for planking smaller hulls. At around $55, it's a lot of well-engineered iron and the ball joint design is the best I've seen. (Some similar vises I've used seem to fall short on the ball joint design, such as the Dremel model. 
     

    https://www.amazon.com/Stanley-1-83-069-MaxSteel-Multi-Yellow/dp/B001HBS0I0/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=stanley+vise&qid=1625607812&s=hi&sr=1-6
     
    For shaping planks, I use plane vise jaws or shop-made jigs as needed. 
     
     
  20. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in Modifying a saw blade   
    There's a reason for that spine on the back of that blade. It's quite possible that the blade is quite brittle as saw blades go. There's less need for more expensive steel to be used if the blade is going to have a reinforced back and harder steel stays sharp longer. You might find it snapping the first time the slightest bend is put in it/ Not sure what steel it's made of, but "just sayin'" The commercial hobby knife keyhole saw blades are so cheap, I can't see the point of cutting up a decent saw like you have. It's just not cost effective.
  21. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Jaager in Modifying a saw blade   
    I have not tried this, but it is something that I would possibly try.
     
    Six:
    I would start with the narrowest blade I could source.
    I would do the cut fairly close to the handle and sacrifice a lot of the length.
    I would separate the blade from the support to do the cuts.
    I would take the outer end to a point.
    When the blade is fitted back to the mount, I would drill a couple or three small holes thru the mount and top edge of the blade and secure the blade to the mount using eyeglasses size screws.
    I would finally try the journal suggestion to greatly strengthen the cutoff wheel that I would use to do this by adding a coat of thin clear epoxy on either side of each wheel.
     
    The experience from this experiment would be worth the cost of a Zona or similar blade.
    Wait a tick:
    when I checked MM to see what are the brands for economy razor saws,  I see that Zona sells two keyhole style blades - no top edge support at the root, but?
    I would probably see if a short piece of a scroll saw blade would do the trick.  A wide choice to TPI are available there.
  22. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Fiberglass a boat Hull   
    It was basically a joke. Kevlar, added to epoxy, yields an expremely impact-resistant cured resin material used in bullet-proof personnel armor plate vests. U.S Army combat helmets are now made of kevlar and epoxy material. Trust me, you don't need kevlar on your RC boat bottom. The same goes for the spectrum of special additives available, such as carbon fiber, which will yield an epoxy/carbon material which is lightweight and extremely strong. It's used for sophisticated state-of-the-art racing boat masts and bicycle frames, etc. (I've seen carbon fiber epoxy being finish sanded. The dust goes everywhere and is much like graphite powder. You'll look like an old time coal miner at quitting time in the mine if you work with that stuff.)
     
    The schedule I recommended above is for as strong a hull sheathing as I can imagine any RC boat would ever need. (Glass cloth or mat will add strength to a sheathed hull, to be sure, but it won't increase the impact resistance much without laying it on thick and IMHO I don't think it's worth fiddling with, although the hull pictured above is done very nicely.) Don't forget that many successful wooden sailing models have been built with nothing but wood, putty, and shellac primer coating, then undercoating and enamel paint and do just fine. They don't spend that much time in the water to begin with and are stored indoors, so they don't need much more. I have a three-masted schooner sailing model that's around a hundred years old now in my shop for a restoration job. (Do not ever let a commercial shipping outfit pack a ship model for shipping! When I get around to starting the job, I'll post pictures of what happens when you put a model in a big box and then fill the dead space with packing peanuts... broken spars and rigging all around.) The plank on frame hull appears to have been painted with a common early 20th Century enamel paint which has held up very well. I won't be repainting because the owner wishes this family heirloom built by a relative Maine Cape Horn sailor to retain its antique patina. There is some minor cracking of the paint along the plank seams, to be expected when an uncased plank on frame model spends that much time on a mantle or window sill, but no light showing between the planks. I expect the model would float today without significant leaking if put to the test. 
     
    One more caveat to mention in passing is that glass-reinforced fabric and mat sheathing may exponentially complicate repairs if catastropic hull damage occurs. One can always throw more resin and glass on it and sand (sort of) fair, but deconstruction for "as new" repairs becomes far more complicated if it is to be done right.
  23. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from scrubbyj427 in Fiberglass a boat Hull   
    Fiberglass can be a "strong, hard wearing surface," but it's a real bugger to work with, particularly on small scale pieces and it sure isn't "easy to sand smooth for painting. It will add thickness to your hull and weight, neither are advantageous. It can be tricky to work with and if something goes wrong, it could ruin the model completely. It's about as strong as an eggshell, so until it gets around 3/16ths of an inch thick, it's going to crack like an eggshell if it gets whacked. At least, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
     
    If your hull is properly put together, it should not need any strengthening and if you operate the model prudently, it should not require a "strong hard wearing surface." 
     
    If it were me, and I realize is ain't, I would sand the hull fair and apply a liberal coat of Smith and Co,.'s Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer. ("CPES")(See:http://www.smithandcompany.org/ for technical information) This will penetrate the wood surface and cure, turning the surface of the wood into rock hard wood impregnated with cured epoxy resin. (CPES is not just "thinned epoxy," it contains special solvents which cause the resin to permeate the wood fibers. Before the CPES cures completely (less than 2 or 3 days... read Smith's instructions... this will create a molecular, rather than just a mechanical bond between the CPES and WEST epoxies,), I would apply a thin coating of WEST System G/flex 650 epoxy resin mixed with WEST System 407 Low-Density or 410 Microlight fairing additive. The additive will make the cured epoxy very easily sand-able to a very finely smooth surface. It will also fill any cracks or divots on the surface. Then sand the surface fair (without sanding the epoxy off down to bare wood. If that happens, apply more CPES to the bare spot(s.)) Then paint with a good quality marine enamel primer and topcoat paint.
     
    WEST G/flex epoxy resin cures to a hard, but slightly flexible epoxy that should not crack with slight wood movement. The CPES will provide a decent water barrier and the West G/flex will add to that. A good marine enamel will complete what should be a matrix that isn't going to leak in your lifetime, nor, probably, the lifetimes of your grandchildren. It won't add noticeable thickness to your hull and won't weigh down your model with unnecessary weight.
     
    You could also add WEST System 422 Barrier Coat Additive, which will increase the moisture resistance of the G/flex epoxy resin, but it's overkill for this application. You've also got the option of using WEST's kevlar additive if you want your bottom to be bulletproof, but that's a story for another night. Amazingly versatile stuff, epoxy.
     
    Fiberglassing small, irregular surfaces is tricky business and the glass cloth or mat is nasty to work with, too. (Tiny bits of glass fibers become airborne and land on your skin, quickly working their way into the skin like fine cactus needles, resulting in painful itching. I don't ever want to begin to think what they do when you inhale them, but I've done my share of fiberglass work on boats in the days before hazmat suits and filtered air-supply masks and I'm still here, so...
     
    Anyway, that's how I'd do it. 
     
  24. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from DispleasedOwl in Help painting hull lines   
    I realize this is probably more than most would ever want to know about painting stripes on models, but it's a subject that doesn't seem to have been addressed here lately and I type faster than a lot of people talk, so here it is.
     
    Aside from the waterline on the X-Y axis, there aren't many straight lines on a seagoing vessel. That said, waterlines can be marked simply by mounting the hull on a flat surface in the "floating" attitude (sometimes there is considerable rake in the keel, particularly in small sailing vessels.) Then take a block of wood of suitable height with a pencil laid on top of it and just run the block around the hull using the pencil laying on the block to mark the waterline. Note that waterlines are not always of constant width. The eye sees the stripe as of a uniform thickness, but, as the stripe is generally on an inclined surface, its width on the hull has to account for that. When you line off a boot stripe with your block and pencil, you'll note that where the hull curves, the top and bottom edges of the stripe will not be parallel. For example, a boot stripe at the tuck of the stern can widen significantly. Another perspective issue is the shape of the hull overall. If a viewer is standing amidships and looking at the boot stripe, the boot stripe at the bow, and perhaps at the stern, will be farther from the viewer's eye than the stripe amidships because the bow, and perhaps the stern, narrow as the hull approaches its ends. For this reason, boot stripes often look better if they are laid out to gradually widen slightly as they approach the bow. This avoids the optical illusion that the boot stripe is narrowing as it runs towards the bow. These adjustments must be done "by eye" when masking the stripes.
     
    As for painting, use a "fine line" masking tape to lay out the lines and paint between the masked areas. Don't use regular house painter's masking tape. The paint will likely run under the paint and make a mess. 3M's Fine Line Tape is a good brand. I believe Tamaya model paints also makes a fine line masking tape. Others have used automotive striping tape, but I've found it's often too thick and out of scale and color selections are limited. A bit of practice is advised before committing to tape and paint the model's hull. The learning curve is short and not steep, but you don't want to mess up the paint job on the model by making that your first try!
     
    Fine line tape can be purchased at art supply stores: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40067079/  Buy the 1/4" wide tape and then use regular masking tape on top of that to mask a wider area, if need be.  The stuff is not cheap! Thinner is cheaper. About $30.00 a roll! A roll will probably last a lifetime of modeling, though. (Tamaya tape is less expensive, but I don't have any personal experience with it. I've read good reviews of it. Perhaps others can comment. 3M Fine Line is the industry standard for automotive and aircraft painters.) 
     
    Be sure to store all masking tape, and especially fine line tape, in zip-lock plastic bags, which retard their drying out and significantly extend their shelf-life to practically forever.  Also, never ever lay a roll of any type of masking tape down on its side on your bench top. Always replace it in its zip-lock bag. Laying a roll of tape on its side will cause it to pick up dust and dirt on the side of the tape, which ruins it because the dust and dirt adhering to the edge of the tape will make it impossible to yield a razor sharp line and will permit  paint to seep beneath the edge of the tape.
     
    There are other techniques for painting stripes, including using special pin-striping brushes freehand with One Shot sign paint, etc., etc., but the use of fine line tape is the only fool-proof method I know. Even among the pros, it's a rare "fist" who can do it well freehand with a brush.
     
     
     
     
     
  25. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Fiberglass a boat Hull   
    Fiberglass can be a "strong, hard wearing surface," but it's a real bugger to work with, particularly on small scale pieces and it sure isn't "easy to sand smooth for painting. It will add thickness to your hull and weight, neither are advantageous. It can be tricky to work with and if something goes wrong, it could ruin the model completely. It's about as strong as an eggshell, so until it gets around 3/16ths of an inch thick, it's going to crack like an eggshell if it gets whacked. At least, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
     
    If your hull is properly put together, it should not need any strengthening and if you operate the model prudently, it should not require a "strong hard wearing surface." 
     
    If it were me, and I realize is ain't, I would sand the hull fair and apply a liberal coat of Smith and Co,.'s Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer. ("CPES")(See:http://www.smithandcompany.org/ for technical information) This will penetrate the wood surface and cure, turning the surface of the wood into rock hard wood impregnated with cured epoxy resin. (CPES is not just "thinned epoxy," it contains special solvents which cause the resin to permeate the wood fibers. Before the CPES cures completely (less than 2 or 3 days... read Smith's instructions... this will create a molecular, rather than just a mechanical bond between the CPES and WEST epoxies,), I would apply a thin coating of WEST System G/flex 650 epoxy resin mixed with WEST System 407 Low-Density or 410 Microlight fairing additive. The additive will make the cured epoxy very easily sand-able to a very finely smooth surface. It will also fill any cracks or divots on the surface. Then sand the surface fair (without sanding the epoxy off down to bare wood. If that happens, apply more CPES to the bare spot(s.)) Then paint with a good quality marine enamel primer and topcoat paint.
     
    WEST G/flex epoxy resin cures to a hard, but slightly flexible epoxy that should not crack with slight wood movement. The CPES will provide a decent water barrier and the West G/flex will add to that. A good marine enamel will complete what should be a matrix that isn't going to leak in your lifetime, nor, probably, the lifetimes of your grandchildren. It won't add noticeable thickness to your hull and won't weigh down your model with unnecessary weight.
     
    You could also add WEST System 422 Barrier Coat Additive, which will increase the moisture resistance of the G/flex epoxy resin, but it's overkill for this application. You've also got the option of using WEST's kevlar additive if you want your bottom to be bulletproof, but that's a story for another night. Amazingly versatile stuff, epoxy.
     
    Fiberglassing small, irregular surfaces is tricky business and the glass cloth or mat is nasty to work with, too. (Tiny bits of glass fibers become airborne and land on your skin, quickly working their way into the skin like fine cactus needles, resulting in painful itching. I don't ever want to begin to think what they do when you inhale them, but I've done my share of fiberglass work on boats in the days before hazmat suits and filtered air-supply masks and I'm still here, so...
     
    Anyway, that's how I'd do it. 
     
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