Jump to content

Bob Cleek

Members
  • Posts

    3,374
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Reputation Activity

  1. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to wefalck in 28 foot American cutter by druxey - FINISHED - 1:48 scale   
    Mostly overlooked by modellers, but the shipwrights and boatbuilders of old took great care and pride in finishing their work, running down a moulding-plane here and there. It also had the practical purpose of rounding off edges to prevent splintering. Not easy to reproduce below certain scale, which is probably the reason, why it is rarely reproduced by us modellers.
  2. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to druxey in 28 foot American cutter by druxey - FINISHED - 1:48 scale   
    Next are the risers; the plank that the thwarts rest on. It was difficult to determine their shape as it is hard to measure vertical heights inside the boat. I 'proved' the spiled shape in card first. The risers will be cut from ¾" thick stock.
     
    Keen-eyed folk will have noticed that some metalwork has been made and fitted while there is still easy access to the ends and bottom of the model.
     

  3. Thanks!
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Jaager in Primer and paint listings   
    Certainly! That's how Van Gogh and Bob Ross did it. (Well, maybe Van Gogh still mulled his own paint. I'm not sure when it started being packaged in tubes like toothpaste.  ) It's about the consistency of toothpaste, but as it dries slowly unless a dryer is added, it can be spread very thinly if desired.
    A FAQ, for sure. "Boiled linseed oil" is not boiled at all. It designates linseed oil which has been packaged with a drying agent added prior to packaging. This is usually Japan drier, which contains manganese in a linseed oil and mineral spirits base. This added drier makes "boiled linseed oil" dry (i.e. polymerize) much faster than "raw linseed oil, which is pure untreated linseed oil. If it is difficult to source linseed oil in your area (usually due to environmental regulations,) it can also be purchased in health food stores labeled as "flax seed oil," this being "food grade" linseed oil. Linseed oil and Japan drier can be purchased anywhere oil paints are sold (i.e. art and craft stores,) but it will be packaged in small amounts and priced at twice the cost of the very same product purchased in a paint or hardware store, so caveat emptor.  Smaller quantities in "artists' packaging" are permitted where regulations prohibit sales of pints, quarts, and gallons in paint and hardware stores and the manufacturers are happy to accommodate the new regulations at twice the profit. Also, a paint conditioning product made by Flood called "Penetrol" is an excellent linseed oil based conditioner for achieving good leveling with oil paints. This is also readily available at paint and hardware stores, although in some areas environmental air quality regulations now also prohibit its sale. (Arrrgh!  Sale is prohibited, but not possession. Sourcing now may involve travel across state lines.)
     
     
  4. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in Primer and paint listings   
    Certainly! That's how Van Gogh and Bob Ross did it. (Well, maybe Van Gogh still mulled his own paint. I'm not sure when it started being packaged in tubes like toothpaste.  ) It's about the consistency of toothpaste, but as it dries slowly unless a dryer is added, it can be spread very thinly if desired.
    A FAQ, for sure. "Boiled linseed oil" is not boiled at all. It designates linseed oil which has been packaged with a drying agent added prior to packaging. This is usually Japan drier, which contains manganese in a linseed oil and mineral spirits base. This added drier makes "boiled linseed oil" dry (i.e. polymerize) much faster than "raw linseed oil, which is pure untreated linseed oil. If it is difficult to source linseed oil in your area (usually due to environmental regulations,) it can also be purchased in health food stores labeled as "flax seed oil," this being "food grade" linseed oil. Linseed oil and Japan drier can be purchased anywhere oil paints are sold (i.e. art and craft stores,) but it will be packaged in small amounts and priced at twice the cost of the very same product purchased in a paint or hardware store, so caveat emptor.  Smaller quantities in "artists' packaging" are permitted where regulations prohibit sales of pints, quarts, and gallons in paint and hardware stores and the manufacturers are happy to accommodate the new regulations at twice the profit. Also, a paint conditioning product made by Flood called "Penetrol" is an excellent linseed oil based conditioner for achieving good leveling with oil paints. This is also readily available at paint and hardware stores, although in some areas environmental air quality regulations now also prohibit its sale. (Arrrgh!  Sale is prohibited, but not possession. Sourcing now may involve travel across state lines.)
     
     
  5. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Primer and paint listings   
    Certainly! That's how Van Gogh and Bob Ross did it. (Well, maybe Van Gogh still mulled his own paint. I'm not sure when it started being packaged in tubes like toothpaste.  ) It's about the consistency of toothpaste, but as it dries slowly unless a dryer is added, it can be spread very thinly if desired.
    A FAQ, for sure. "Boiled linseed oil" is not boiled at all. It designates linseed oil which has been packaged with a drying agent added prior to packaging. This is usually Japan drier, which contains manganese in a linseed oil and mineral spirits base. This added drier makes "boiled linseed oil" dry (i.e. polymerize) much faster than "raw linseed oil, which is pure untreated linseed oil. If it is difficult to source linseed oil in your area (usually due to environmental regulations,) it can also be purchased in health food stores labeled as "flax seed oil," this being "food grade" linseed oil. Linseed oil and Japan drier can be purchased anywhere oil paints are sold (i.e. art and craft stores,) but it will be packaged in small amounts and priced at twice the cost of the very same product purchased in a paint or hardware store, so caveat emptor.  Smaller quantities in "artists' packaging" are permitted where regulations prohibit sales of pints, quarts, and gallons in paint and hardware stores and the manufacturers are happy to accommodate the new regulations at twice the profit. Also, a paint conditioning product made by Flood called "Penetrol" is an excellent linseed oil based conditioner for achieving good leveling with oil paints. This is also readily available at paint and hardware stores, although in some areas environmental air quality regulations now also prohibit its sale. (Arrrgh!  Sale is prohibited, but not possession. Sourcing now may involve travel across state lines.)
     
     
  6. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Bill Hudson in Hollow needle to make wooden pegs.   
    I have had good luck using regular drill gauges. On the front sides the hole edges are rounded but from the back side they are sharp edged. I find bamboo cocktail sticks a good source for drawing.  Just split them down to approximate size and start drawing at large holes (they will eventually round out) progressing to smaller sizes.
    Bill

  7. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Hollow needle to make wooden pegs.   
    Ditto. And be aware that there are two types of drawplate, one for drawing wire, which has tapered holes which cause the metal wire when drawn through the plate holes to be compressed and lengthened, and one for wood, which does not have tapered holes, but rather holes with sharp edges which scrape wood off of the wooden piece as it is drawn through the hole, thereby reducing its diameter by subtraction of wood. The excellent Byrnes drawplate is made for wood. You may be surprised by how small the range of holes on the Byrnes drawplate is. If one wishes a larger range of holes, I am unaware of any presently available commercially manufactured drawplate for wood. You will have to make your own, one way or the other. One way is to take a suitable piece of steel and drill the range of sized holes you wish and then flatten and polish the faces of the steel plate so the hole edges are sharp. Alternately, and much more convenient, one can simply purchase a steel drill bit gauge with a suitably sized range of holes and flatten and polish the faces of the drill gauge.
     

     
    https://generaltools.com/drill-bit-gauge-1-16-to-by-64ths-fractional-size-with-decimal-equivalents-stainless-steel
  8. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to allanyed in Hollow needle to make wooden pegs.   
    Marcus,
    You should be pleased with a draw plate but do not go cheap.   One of the best is from Jim Byrnes and is $25.  There are Chinese ones for half the price and they are worth less than half the price.  As is normal, you get what you pay for.  I am sure there are other good quality ones out there and someone may give some info on them for you to check out.

    Bamboo skewers are cheap and available everywhere.  Just split them as many times as you can with a sharp blade until the strips will fit in the largest hole on the plate and then go from there.  As you have not done this before, one common mistake is drawing the piece in the wrong direction.  Push through the flat side of the plate and draw/pull out the other side.  
  9. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to allanyed in Hollow needle to make wooden pegs.   
    Marcus,  assuming the inside diameter is .65mm, the size is about right for treenails in a hull for 1:48 scale.  For smaller scales it is  oversized.  You probably need something like a 21 gage needle like those made by Becton Dickinson and others.   They go down to much smaller diameter as well.
     
    Have you tried making treenails with a draw plate?   Bamboo treenails are incredibly strong and easy to make with a good draw plate such as the one from Jim Byrnes.   With a typical hull having upwards of 10,000 treenails, making them with a hypodermic needle is a task most would not want to try.  If your scale is 3/16=1 inch or smaller, treenails will ruin the look and probably be better left off.  Many otherwise beautiful planking jobs on the hull and decks have been ruined with oversized treenails.    There are a number of posts on making these using different methods and different materials from fishing line to wire to different wood species.  
  10. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from VTHokiEE in Mast Bands   
    As a passing comment for the anally-inclined, it might be noted that eyebolts were never installed through metal mast bands. Neither were rings ever welded to metal mast bands. The "eye bolt through the mast band" is a modeler's shortcut, In actual practice, the purpose for a mast band (or boom band) is to provide attachment points to the mast which do not require boring holes in the mast which provide a way for fresh (rain) water to soak into the end-grain of the mast and promote concealed rot that can ultimately cost the loss of a spar under load.  The metal mast band is bedded and clamps tightly around the mast, and holds by that pressure. It is never screwed onto the mast.  Attachment points are formed by welding the "feet" of "U"-shaped metal rod to the band itself, providing a strong two-point attachment to the band, or by welding triangular plates on edge with a hole or holes drilled through the face of the plates to accept shackle pins. Eyebolts anywhere on a mast are not considered good prototype rigging practice. 
  11. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Smile-n-Nod in Justifying the purchase of a mill   
    If you want a mill, by all means get one, but the best rules to follow with tools, and particularly expensive ones, is not to buy one until you have a job that you can't do without one and then buy the best tool you can afford. If you say you only do kit builds at this point, I really don't think the cost of even the Vanda-Lay AcraMill is justified. (And, within their understood performance parameters, the Vanda-Lay devices are quite good, although limited when coupled with a Dremel mototool. They really don't approach their full potential unless they are coupled with a Foredom flex-shaft and handpiece for reasons discussed several times over in this forum.) 
     
    That said, with two models under your belt and no sense of taking it to the next level yet, I wouldn't recommend your spending big bucks on a lot of "heavy artillery." I'd suggest you concentrate on acquiring a good selection of top quality hand tools before anything else. Get a Dremel, if you must, but realize that its usefulness is limited. (I use mine all the time with cut-off wheels to saw through small tool steel parts and such, but for little else.) If you come to really enjoy the hobby, I expect you will soon become dissatisfied with all but the highest quality (and priced) latest generation of kits. If you stay at it for any amount of time, you will become dissatisfied with the quality of the materials in many kits and start replacing parts and wood, thereby commencing your slide into the depths of the "Dark Side," scratchbuilding. You will likely also become frustrated with the limited range of kit subjects to build and want to build something that hasn't been built in kit form many times over.
     
    In my opinion, I think a dedicated mill becomes necessary only if you find yourself needing to do a fair amount of milling of solid metal. Depending upon the era of your interest, you may never need one or find one essential. Before you buy a mill (and its attendant tooling, which will likely cost at least as much as the mill before you get done,) there are many other very useful tools that will improve the quality of your work and save a lot of time, energy, and in some cases, money. Considering your present level of modeling, as described, and assuming you are able to invest the money in quality tools and tooling, I'd suspect the following shopping list in progressive order of priority, anticipating that your modeling skill increases apace:
     
    1.    Foredom flex-shaft tool with a minimum of the collet and the chuck handpieces, plus a good selection of bits and other tooling.
     
    2.    A standard-sized  bench-top drill press which, with a decent micro-chuck, will drill accurate holes of any size. (A Vanda-Lay drill press or AcraMill with the clamps to hold a Foredom handpiece will serve well, but, for the same cost, is limited in the size work it can handle.) 
     
    3.    A decent X-Y table for the drill press. (Which will allow very limited lightweight milling of wood if judiciously done. Drill presses aren't designed to take the lateral stress imposed by milling processes. The X-Y table will ensure accurate placement of drilled holes, as well.)
     
    4.    The Byrnes Model Machines disk sander. (And a good shop vacuum to collect the dust.)
     
    5.    The Byrnes Model Machines table saw with sliding table attachment. (Which is essential for milling one's own strip wood, etc. Accept no substitutes!) 
     
    6.     The Byrnes Model Machines thickness sander. (Which is essential for milling one's own sheet stock and strip wood.)
     
    7.     A quality scroll saw.
     
    *.     At a minimum, A decent Sieg 7X lathe with milling attachment or a Sherline lathe with the necessary attachments and tooling.
     
    Note that there is much discussion of lathes in this forum. Keep in mind that a decent lathe will work on smaller pieces, but a small lathe will never be able to work on larger pieces. Some folks have space limitations or wish the particular features of watchmaker's lathes, which are another animal entirely. A used Atlas 12X  or Myford 7 in good condition with extensive tooling, for example, can often be had for considerably less than a new micro-lathe such as the Sherline. The Sieg 7X lathes are Chinese-made and notorious for requiring a rebuild and extensive fetteling right out of the box, but by paying a bit more from one with a quality badge (e.g. Grizzly or Little Machine Shop,) one can be reasonably certain of avoiding a lot of grief in that respect.
     
    8.    Last, but certainly not least in expense, a quality small milling machine such as the Sherline or Sieg models. Keep in mind, however, that if you have a mid-sized bench top lathe (e.g. 12X,) and it's horizontal milling attachment, you may well find you've eliminated the need for a stand-alone milling machine entirely.
     
    Just my two cents worth. Others' mileage may vary.
     
  12. Thanks!
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from BETAQDAVE in Mast Bands   
    As a passing comment for the anally-inclined, it might be noted that eyebolts were never installed through metal mast bands. Neither were rings ever welded to metal mast bands. The "eye bolt through the mast band" is a modeler's shortcut, In actual practice, the purpose for a mast band (or boom band) is to provide attachment points to the mast which do not require boring holes in the mast which provide a way for fresh (rain) water to soak into the end-grain of the mast and promote concealed rot that can ultimately cost the loss of a spar under load.  The metal mast band is bedded and clamps tightly around the mast, and holds by that pressure. It is never screwed onto the mast.  Attachment points are formed by welding the "feet" of "U"-shaped metal rod to the band itself, providing a strong two-point attachment to the band, or by welding triangular plates on edge with a hole or holes drilled through the face of the plates to accept shackle pins. Eyebolts anywhere on a mast are not considered good prototype rigging practice. 
  13. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Mast Bands   
    As a passing comment for the anally-inclined, it might be noted that eyebolts were never installed through metal mast bands. Neither were rings ever welded to metal mast bands. The "eye bolt through the mast band" is a modeler's shortcut, In actual practice, the purpose for a mast band (or boom band) is to provide attachment points to the mast which do not require boring holes in the mast which provide a way for fresh (rain) water to soak into the end-grain of the mast and promote concealed rot that can ultimately cost the loss of a spar under load.  The metal mast band is bedded and clamps tightly around the mast, and holds by that pressure. It is never screwed onto the mast.  Attachment points are formed by welding the "feet" of "U"-shaped metal rod to the band itself, providing a strong two-point attachment to the band, or by welding triangular plates on edge with a hole or holes drilled through the face of the plates to accept shackle pins. Eyebolts anywhere on a mast are not considered good prototype rigging practice. 
  14. Thanks!
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from thibaultron in Mast Bands   
    As a passing comment for the anally-inclined, it might be noted that eyebolts were never installed through metal mast bands. Neither were rings ever welded to metal mast bands. The "eye bolt through the mast band" is a modeler's shortcut, In actual practice, the purpose for a mast band (or boom band) is to provide attachment points to the mast which do not require boring holes in the mast which provide a way for fresh (rain) water to soak into the end-grain of the mast and promote concealed rot that can ultimately cost the loss of a spar under load.  The metal mast band is bedded and clamps tightly around the mast, and holds by that pressure. It is never screwed onto the mast.  Attachment points are formed by welding the "feet" of "U"-shaped metal rod to the band itself, providing a strong two-point attachment to the band, or by welding triangular plates on edge with a hole or holes drilled through the face of the plates to accept shackle pins. Eyebolts anywhere on a mast are not considered good prototype rigging practice. 
  15. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to druxey in Mast Bands   
    One often is boxed in by thinking 'If the original was metal, I have to use metal to make it too.' No, you don't. Tape is one solution suggested above. Another is very thin card strips, prepainted. I've often used them and a neat joint is easy. Overlay the ends, then cut through both with a very sharp blade to butt join them. Drilling for an eyebolt in card is easy as well.
  16. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from dvm27 in Justifying the purchase of a mill   
    If you want a mill, by all means get one, but the best rules to follow with tools, and particularly expensive ones, is not to buy one until you have a job that you can't do without one and then buy the best tool you can afford. If you say you only do kit builds at this point, I really don't think the cost of even the Vanda-Lay AcraMill is justified. (And, within their understood performance parameters, the Vanda-Lay devices are quite good, although limited when coupled with a Dremel mototool. They really don't approach their full potential unless they are coupled with a Foredom flex-shaft and handpiece for reasons discussed several times over in this forum.) 
     
    That said, with two models under your belt and no sense of taking it to the next level yet, I wouldn't recommend your spending big bucks on a lot of "heavy artillery." I'd suggest you concentrate on acquiring a good selection of top quality hand tools before anything else. Get a Dremel, if you must, but realize that its usefulness is limited. (I use mine all the time with cut-off wheels to saw through small tool steel parts and such, but for little else.) If you come to really enjoy the hobby, I expect you will soon become dissatisfied with all but the highest quality (and priced) latest generation of kits. If you stay at it for any amount of time, you will become dissatisfied with the quality of the materials in many kits and start replacing parts and wood, thereby commencing your slide into the depths of the "Dark Side," scratchbuilding. You will likely also become frustrated with the limited range of kit subjects to build and want to build something that hasn't been built in kit form many times over.
     
    In my opinion, I think a dedicated mill becomes necessary only if you find yourself needing to do a fair amount of milling of solid metal. Depending upon the era of your interest, you may never need one or find one essential. Before you buy a mill (and its attendant tooling, which will likely cost at least as much as the mill before you get done,) there are many other very useful tools that will improve the quality of your work and save a lot of time, energy, and in some cases, money. Considering your present level of modeling, as described, and assuming you are able to invest the money in quality tools and tooling, I'd suspect the following shopping list in progressive order of priority, anticipating that your modeling skill increases apace:
     
    1.    Foredom flex-shaft tool with a minimum of the collet and the chuck handpieces, plus a good selection of bits and other tooling.
     
    2.    A standard-sized  bench-top drill press which, with a decent micro-chuck, will drill accurate holes of any size. (A Vanda-Lay drill press or AcraMill with the clamps to hold a Foredom handpiece will serve well, but, for the same cost, is limited in the size work it can handle.) 
     
    3.    A decent X-Y table for the drill press. (Which will allow very limited lightweight milling of wood if judiciously done. Drill presses aren't designed to take the lateral stress imposed by milling processes. The X-Y table will ensure accurate placement of drilled holes, as well.)
     
    4.    The Byrnes Model Machines disk sander. (And a good shop vacuum to collect the dust.)
     
    5.    The Byrnes Model Machines table saw with sliding table attachment. (Which is essential for milling one's own strip wood, etc. Accept no substitutes!) 
     
    6.     The Byrnes Model Machines thickness sander. (Which is essential for milling one's own sheet stock and strip wood.)
     
    7.     A quality scroll saw.
     
    *.     At a minimum, A decent Sieg 7X lathe with milling attachment or a Sherline lathe with the necessary attachments and tooling.
     
    Note that there is much discussion of lathes in this forum. Keep in mind that a decent lathe will work on smaller pieces, but a small lathe will never be able to work on larger pieces. Some folks have space limitations or wish the particular features of watchmaker's lathes, which are another animal entirely. A used Atlas 12X  or Myford 7 in good condition with extensive tooling, for example, can often be had for considerably less than a new micro-lathe such as the Sherline. The Sieg 7X lathes are Chinese-made and notorious for requiring a rebuild and extensive fetteling right out of the box, but by paying a bit more from one with a quality badge (e.g. Grizzly or Little Machine Shop,) one can be reasonably certain of avoiding a lot of grief in that respect.
     
    8.    Last, but certainly not least in expense, a quality small milling machine such as the Sherline or Sieg models. Keep in mind, however, that if you have a mid-sized bench top lathe (e.g. 12X,) and it's horizontal milling attachment, you may well find you've eliminated the need for a stand-alone milling machine entirely.
     
    Just my two cents worth. Others' mileage may vary.
     
  17. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Roger Pellett in Justifying the purchase of a mill   
    Good advice is dependent on your goals: budget, workshop space and even your age (are you just getting started outfitting a workshop that you will use for many years?)
     
    First, IMHO upgrading a hand held rotary tool is throwing good money after bad.  I have a 45 year old Sears “Little Crafty” rotary tool.  Like most older tools made before well known brand names were slapped on outsourced products it is well made.  I seldom use it, and when I do it’s for metal working.  Like Bob says, it’s great equipped with an abrasive cutting disc.  For serious model work it’s way too aggressive.  
     
    If I were moving from “kitchen table” model building to equipping a workshop, the first major power tool that I would buy would be a drill press.  Bench top drill presses are not expensive, take up little space, and compared with other power tools produce relatively little dust.  They work equally well drilling wood, metals, and plastic.  I use mine almost every time that I work in my shop.  For drilling, with their lever operated quill they are easier to use than a mill, where the drilling column must be advanced with a handwheel
     
    If you decide to buy a drill press, make sure that it is equipped with ball or roller bearings.  I prefer belt driven tools to those with electronic speed controls; better long term reliability.  The Jacobs chuck on my drill press will not close on drill bits smaller than 3/32in diameter (about 2mm).  I therefore, have a set of pin vices that accept smaller drill bits and can be mounted in the chuck.  I believe that there is an old adage that says to buy machine tools by the pound; the heavier the better.  A good drill press gets its precision by rigidity.  Rigidity requires mass.  My drill press is also 45 years old and works as well as it did when brand new.
     
    Roger
     
  18. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in Justifying the purchase of a mill   
    If you want a mill, by all means get one, but the best rules to follow with tools, and particularly expensive ones, is not to buy one until you have a job that you can't do without one and then buy the best tool you can afford. If you say you only do kit builds at this point, I really don't think the cost of even the Vanda-Lay AcraMill is justified. (And, within their understood performance parameters, the Vanda-Lay devices are quite good, although limited when coupled with a Dremel mototool. They really don't approach their full potential unless they are coupled with a Foredom flex-shaft and handpiece for reasons discussed several times over in this forum.) 
     
    That said, with two models under your belt and no sense of taking it to the next level yet, I wouldn't recommend your spending big bucks on a lot of "heavy artillery." I'd suggest you concentrate on acquiring a good selection of top quality hand tools before anything else. Get a Dremel, if you must, but realize that its usefulness is limited. (I use mine all the time with cut-off wheels to saw through small tool steel parts and such, but for little else.) If you come to really enjoy the hobby, I expect you will soon become dissatisfied with all but the highest quality (and priced) latest generation of kits. If you stay at it for any amount of time, you will become dissatisfied with the quality of the materials in many kits and start replacing parts and wood, thereby commencing your slide into the depths of the "Dark Side," scratchbuilding. You will likely also become frustrated with the limited range of kit subjects to build and want to build something that hasn't been built in kit form many times over.
     
    In my opinion, I think a dedicated mill becomes necessary only if you find yourself needing to do a fair amount of milling of solid metal. Depending upon the era of your interest, you may never need one or find one essential. Before you buy a mill (and its attendant tooling, which will likely cost at least as much as the mill before you get done,) there are many other very useful tools that will improve the quality of your work and save a lot of time, energy, and in some cases, money. Considering your present level of modeling, as described, and assuming you are able to invest the money in quality tools and tooling, I'd suspect the following shopping list in progressive order of priority, anticipating that your modeling skill increases apace:
     
    1.    Foredom flex-shaft tool with a minimum of the collet and the chuck handpieces, plus a good selection of bits and other tooling.
     
    2.    A standard-sized  bench-top drill press which, with a decent micro-chuck, will drill accurate holes of any size. (A Vanda-Lay drill press or AcraMill with the clamps to hold a Foredom handpiece will serve well, but, for the same cost, is limited in the size work it can handle.) 
     
    3.    A decent X-Y table for the drill press. (Which will allow very limited lightweight milling of wood if judiciously done. Drill presses aren't designed to take the lateral stress imposed by milling processes. The X-Y table will ensure accurate placement of drilled holes, as well.)
     
    4.    The Byrnes Model Machines disk sander. (And a good shop vacuum to collect the dust.)
     
    5.    The Byrnes Model Machines table saw with sliding table attachment. (Which is essential for milling one's own strip wood, etc. Accept no substitutes!) 
     
    6.     The Byrnes Model Machines thickness sander. (Which is essential for milling one's own sheet stock and strip wood.)
     
    7.     A quality scroll saw.
     
    *.     At a minimum, A decent Sieg 7X lathe with milling attachment or a Sherline lathe with the necessary attachments and tooling.
     
    Note that there is much discussion of lathes in this forum. Keep in mind that a decent lathe will work on smaller pieces, but a small lathe will never be able to work on larger pieces. Some folks have space limitations or wish the particular features of watchmaker's lathes, which are another animal entirely. A used Atlas 12X  or Myford 7 in good condition with extensive tooling, for example, can often be had for considerably less than a new micro-lathe such as the Sherline. The Sieg 7X lathes are Chinese-made and notorious for requiring a rebuild and extensive fetteling right out of the box, but by paying a bit more from one with a quality badge (e.g. Grizzly or Little Machine Shop,) one can be reasonably certain of avoiding a lot of grief in that respect.
     
    8.    Last, but certainly not least in expense, a quality small milling machine such as the Sherline or Sieg models. Keep in mind, however, that if you have a mid-sized bench top lathe (e.g. 12X,) and it's horizontal milling attachment, you may well find you've eliminated the need for a stand-alone milling machine entirely.
     
    Just my two cents worth. Others' mileage may vary.
     
  19. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Rik Thistle in Justifying the purchase of a mill   
    If you want a mill, by all means get one, but the best rules to follow with tools, and particularly expensive ones, is not to buy one until you have a job that you can't do without one and then buy the best tool you can afford. If you say you only do kit builds at this point, I really don't think the cost of even the Vanda-Lay AcraMill is justified. (And, within their understood performance parameters, the Vanda-Lay devices are quite good, although limited when coupled with a Dremel mototool. They really don't approach their full potential unless they are coupled with a Foredom flex-shaft and handpiece for reasons discussed several times over in this forum.) 
     
    That said, with two models under your belt and no sense of taking it to the next level yet, I wouldn't recommend your spending big bucks on a lot of "heavy artillery." I'd suggest you concentrate on acquiring a good selection of top quality hand tools before anything else. Get a Dremel, if you must, but realize that its usefulness is limited. (I use mine all the time with cut-off wheels to saw through small tool steel parts and such, but for little else.) If you come to really enjoy the hobby, I expect you will soon become dissatisfied with all but the highest quality (and priced) latest generation of kits. If you stay at it for any amount of time, you will become dissatisfied with the quality of the materials in many kits and start replacing parts and wood, thereby commencing your slide into the depths of the "Dark Side," scratchbuilding. You will likely also become frustrated with the limited range of kit subjects to build and want to build something that hasn't been built in kit form many times over.
     
    In my opinion, I think a dedicated mill becomes necessary only if you find yourself needing to do a fair amount of milling of solid metal. Depending upon the era of your interest, you may never need one or find one essential. Before you buy a mill (and its attendant tooling, which will likely cost at least as much as the mill before you get done,) there are many other very useful tools that will improve the quality of your work and save a lot of time, energy, and in some cases, money. Considering your present level of modeling, as described, and assuming you are able to invest the money in quality tools and tooling, I'd suspect the following shopping list in progressive order of priority, anticipating that your modeling skill increases apace:
     
    1.    Foredom flex-shaft tool with a minimum of the collet and the chuck handpieces, plus a good selection of bits and other tooling.
     
    2.    A standard-sized  bench-top drill press which, with a decent micro-chuck, will drill accurate holes of any size. (A Vanda-Lay drill press or AcraMill with the clamps to hold a Foredom handpiece will serve well, but, for the same cost, is limited in the size work it can handle.) 
     
    3.    A decent X-Y table for the drill press. (Which will allow very limited lightweight milling of wood if judiciously done. Drill presses aren't designed to take the lateral stress imposed by milling processes. The X-Y table will ensure accurate placement of drilled holes, as well.)
     
    4.    The Byrnes Model Machines disk sander. (And a good shop vacuum to collect the dust.)
     
    5.    The Byrnes Model Machines table saw with sliding table attachment. (Which is essential for milling one's own strip wood, etc. Accept no substitutes!) 
     
    6.     The Byrnes Model Machines thickness sander. (Which is essential for milling one's own sheet stock and strip wood.)
     
    7.     A quality scroll saw.
     
    *.     At a minimum, A decent Sieg 7X lathe with milling attachment or a Sherline lathe with the necessary attachments and tooling.
     
    Note that there is much discussion of lathes in this forum. Keep in mind that a decent lathe will work on smaller pieces, but a small lathe will never be able to work on larger pieces. Some folks have space limitations or wish the particular features of watchmaker's lathes, which are another animal entirely. A used Atlas 12X  or Myford 7 in good condition with extensive tooling, for example, can often be had for considerably less than a new micro-lathe such as the Sherline. The Sieg 7X lathes are Chinese-made and notorious for requiring a rebuild and extensive fetteling right out of the box, but by paying a bit more from one with a quality badge (e.g. Grizzly or Little Machine Shop,) one can be reasonably certain of avoiding a lot of grief in that respect.
     
    8.    Last, but certainly not least in expense, a quality small milling machine such as the Sherline or Sieg models. Keep in mind, however, that if you have a mid-sized bench top lathe (e.g. 12X,) and it's horizontal milling attachment, you may well find you've eliminated the need for a stand-alone milling machine entirely.
     
    Just my two cents worth. Others' mileage may vary.
     
  20. Thanks!
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Justifying the purchase of a mill   
    If you want a mill, by all means get one, but the best rules to follow with tools, and particularly expensive ones, is not to buy one until you have a job that you can't do without one and then buy the best tool you can afford. If you say you only do kit builds at this point, I really don't think the cost of even the Vanda-Lay AcraMill is justified. (And, within their understood performance parameters, the Vanda-Lay devices are quite good, although limited when coupled with a Dremel mototool. They really don't approach their full potential unless they are coupled with a Foredom flex-shaft and handpiece for reasons discussed several times over in this forum.) 
     
    That said, with two models under your belt and no sense of taking it to the next level yet, I wouldn't recommend your spending big bucks on a lot of "heavy artillery." I'd suggest you concentrate on acquiring a good selection of top quality hand tools before anything else. Get a Dremel, if you must, but realize that its usefulness is limited. (I use mine all the time with cut-off wheels to saw through small tool steel parts and such, but for little else.) If you come to really enjoy the hobby, I expect you will soon become dissatisfied with all but the highest quality (and priced) latest generation of kits. If you stay at it for any amount of time, you will become dissatisfied with the quality of the materials in many kits and start replacing parts and wood, thereby commencing your slide into the depths of the "Dark Side," scratchbuilding. You will likely also become frustrated with the limited range of kit subjects to build and want to build something that hasn't been built in kit form many times over.
     
    In my opinion, I think a dedicated mill becomes necessary only if you find yourself needing to do a fair amount of milling of solid metal. Depending upon the era of your interest, you may never need one or find one essential. Before you buy a mill (and its attendant tooling, which will likely cost at least as much as the mill before you get done,) there are many other very useful tools that will improve the quality of your work and save a lot of time, energy, and in some cases, money. Considering your present level of modeling, as described, and assuming you are able to invest the money in quality tools and tooling, I'd suspect the following shopping list in progressive order of priority, anticipating that your modeling skill increases apace:
     
    1.    Foredom flex-shaft tool with a minimum of the collet and the chuck handpieces, plus a good selection of bits and other tooling.
     
    2.    A standard-sized  bench-top drill press which, with a decent micro-chuck, will drill accurate holes of any size. (A Vanda-Lay drill press or AcraMill with the clamps to hold a Foredom handpiece will serve well, but, for the same cost, is limited in the size work it can handle.) 
     
    3.    A decent X-Y table for the drill press. (Which will allow very limited lightweight milling of wood if judiciously done. Drill presses aren't designed to take the lateral stress imposed by milling processes. The X-Y table will ensure accurate placement of drilled holes, as well.)
     
    4.    The Byrnes Model Machines disk sander. (And a good shop vacuum to collect the dust.)
     
    5.    The Byrnes Model Machines table saw with sliding table attachment. (Which is essential for milling one's own strip wood, etc. Accept no substitutes!) 
     
    6.     The Byrnes Model Machines thickness sander. (Which is essential for milling one's own sheet stock and strip wood.)
     
    7.     A quality scroll saw.
     
    *.     At a minimum, A decent Sieg 7X lathe with milling attachment or a Sherline lathe with the necessary attachments and tooling.
     
    Note that there is much discussion of lathes in this forum. Keep in mind that a decent lathe will work on smaller pieces, but a small lathe will never be able to work on larger pieces. Some folks have space limitations or wish the particular features of watchmaker's lathes, which are another animal entirely. A used Atlas 12X  or Myford 7 in good condition with extensive tooling, for example, can often be had for considerably less than a new micro-lathe such as the Sherline. The Sieg 7X lathes are Chinese-made and notorious for requiring a rebuild and extensive fetteling right out of the box, but by paying a bit more from one with a quality badge (e.g. Grizzly or Little Machine Shop,) one can be reasonably certain of avoiding a lot of grief in that respect.
     
    8.    Last, but certainly not least in expense, a quality small milling machine such as the Sherline or Sieg models. Keep in mind, however, that if you have a mid-sized bench top lathe (e.g. 12X,) and it's horizontal milling attachment, you may well find you've eliminated the need for a stand-alone milling machine entirely.
     
    Just my two cents worth. Others' mileage may vary.
     
  21. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Moab in Justifying the purchase of a mill   
    If you want a mill, by all means get one, but the best rules to follow with tools, and particularly expensive ones, is not to buy one until you have a job that you can't do without one and then buy the best tool you can afford. If you say you only do kit builds at this point, I really don't think the cost of even the Vanda-Lay AcraMill is justified. (And, within their understood performance parameters, the Vanda-Lay devices are quite good, although limited when coupled with a Dremel mototool. They really don't approach their full potential unless they are coupled with a Foredom flex-shaft and handpiece for reasons discussed several times over in this forum.) 
     
    That said, with two models under your belt and no sense of taking it to the next level yet, I wouldn't recommend your spending big bucks on a lot of "heavy artillery." I'd suggest you concentrate on acquiring a good selection of top quality hand tools before anything else. Get a Dremel, if you must, but realize that its usefulness is limited. (I use mine all the time with cut-off wheels to saw through small tool steel parts and such, but for little else.) If you come to really enjoy the hobby, I expect you will soon become dissatisfied with all but the highest quality (and priced) latest generation of kits. If you stay at it for any amount of time, you will become dissatisfied with the quality of the materials in many kits and start replacing parts and wood, thereby commencing your slide into the depths of the "Dark Side," scratchbuilding. You will likely also become frustrated with the limited range of kit subjects to build and want to build something that hasn't been built in kit form many times over.
     
    In my opinion, I think a dedicated mill becomes necessary only if you find yourself needing to do a fair amount of milling of solid metal. Depending upon the era of your interest, you may never need one or find one essential. Before you buy a mill (and its attendant tooling, which will likely cost at least as much as the mill before you get done,) there are many other very useful tools that will improve the quality of your work and save a lot of time, energy, and in some cases, money. Considering your present level of modeling, as described, and assuming you are able to invest the money in quality tools and tooling, I'd suspect the following shopping list in progressive order of priority, anticipating that your modeling skill increases apace:
     
    1.    Foredom flex-shaft tool with a minimum of the collet and the chuck handpieces, plus a good selection of bits and other tooling.
     
    2.    A standard-sized  bench-top drill press which, with a decent micro-chuck, will drill accurate holes of any size. (A Vanda-Lay drill press or AcraMill with the clamps to hold a Foredom handpiece will serve well, but, for the same cost, is limited in the size work it can handle.) 
     
    3.    A decent X-Y table for the drill press. (Which will allow very limited lightweight milling of wood if judiciously done. Drill presses aren't designed to take the lateral stress imposed by milling processes. The X-Y table will ensure accurate placement of drilled holes, as well.)
     
    4.    The Byrnes Model Machines disk sander. (And a good shop vacuum to collect the dust.)
     
    5.    The Byrnes Model Machines table saw with sliding table attachment. (Which is essential for milling one's own strip wood, etc. Accept no substitutes!) 
     
    6.     The Byrnes Model Machines thickness sander. (Which is essential for milling one's own sheet stock and strip wood.)
     
    7.     A quality scroll saw.
     
    *.     At a minimum, A decent Sieg 7X lathe with milling attachment or a Sherline lathe with the necessary attachments and tooling.
     
    Note that there is much discussion of lathes in this forum. Keep in mind that a decent lathe will work on smaller pieces, but a small lathe will never be able to work on larger pieces. Some folks have space limitations or wish the particular features of watchmaker's lathes, which are another animal entirely. A used Atlas 12X  or Myford 7 in good condition with extensive tooling, for example, can often be had for considerably less than a new micro-lathe such as the Sherline. The Sieg 7X lathes are Chinese-made and notorious for requiring a rebuild and extensive fetteling right out of the box, but by paying a bit more from one with a quality badge (e.g. Grizzly or Little Machine Shop,) one can be reasonably certain of avoiding a lot of grief in that respect.
     
    8.    Last, but certainly not least in expense, a quality small milling machine such as the Sherline or Sieg models. Keep in mind, however, that if you have a mid-sized bench top lathe (e.g. 12X,) and it's horizontal milling attachment, you may well find you've eliminated the need for a stand-alone milling machine entirely.
     
    Just my two cents worth. Others' mileage may vary.
     
  22. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from GrandpaPhil in Which side?   
    I always put the side that has the most errors closest to the wall.  
  23. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Chuck Seiler in Which side?   
    I always put the side that has the most errors closest to the wall.  
  24. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from DaveBaxt in Ratlines   
    Not at all. I'm happy to be able to share what experience I have. That said, compared to the skill and experience of many forumites, I'm just a journeyman and hardly a master!
     
    One other general observation I can share is that in recent decades amateur ship modeling has advanced greatly and what we see being done by hobbyists now is often many times more accurate and refined than the norm even thirty or forty years ago when many of us geezers were cutting out teeth on primitive kit models. The internet has made so much more information readily available and forums like this one have exponentially increased communication within the field. This has in some ways rendered things in the older books on the subject obsolete as new tools, materials, and techniques have been developed. The old ways still work, but not everything in the old books is current practice.
  25. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from DaveBaxt in Ratlines   
    Quite true, so long as it's tempered with the realization that if something has been done one way for a long time, it is more likely than not to work well and was the product of a greater number of minds better than one's own. New materials provide opportunities for innovation and improvement, but new materials must be viewed with considered suspicion until they, too, have stood the test of time. It must also be remembers than new ideas come along a lot less frequently than new materials and few, if any of us, ever have an original one. As Dirty Harry said, "A man's got to know his limitations."
×
×
  • Create New...