themadchemist

Nice job on some delicate cutting Grant. I like the table saw modification also, as well as the ZT scroll. BTW what type blade do you use on the scroll saw. I've looked at the ones that cut in any direction and wonder if that's what you used, although it looks like a flat blade. Have you tried the multi-directional cutting blades? Can't wait to see what's in store for the clinker builds, Ron's been working on one for his Oneida is you haven't seen it. This will be like 3 extra build logs. Congrats on the new tools also.

Its those little details that matter most...but on a ship of your Wasan 1628's caliber you must make everything remarkable as the ship itself has so much detail. Plus, you've raised the bar so much higher Matti with your weathering details. I love how you ride the razors-edge so often, the true personality of the builder really shows in your work. It's still hard to believe at times that this is your first wood ship. There's no telling where your journey will lead, but I look forward to seeing it and appreciate your sharing your techniques. Your outside photography inspired me to take the DSotM outside yesterday for a photo shoot. 1/2 a world away and I thought of you as I took pictures. Breathe, breathe in the air Don't be afraid to care Leave but don't leave me Look around and chose your own ground For long you live and high you fly And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry And all you touch and all you see Is all your life will ever be....

Since the subjects been brought up again I'll add this. Allan mentioned Gilmer, I would add that Gilmer has a $100 minimum order and a $15 packing fee. That being said I received 10 knife blanks of beautiful ebony 3/8" x 2 1/2" x 5 1/2" plus a 2" x 4" x 3' block of Castillo boxwood that was perfectly coloured. I would definitely recommend Gilmer for non-scale lumber and can't wait until I can also acquire the fancier tools. Half the fun of this hobby is finding the ideas and materials to complete the build. Keep on Plankin'

Nice job, Jesse. What an elegantly simple rig for the wheel, although it seems one would steer facing backward or standing to the side. From the picture from 2 posts back of the rudder hole, when clicked and enlarged one can really see the chocolate colour of the timbers. Its a really nice coloured and grained wood that adds so much. It should be interesting to see how finish changes them as it so often highlights beauty unseen before application.

As I struggle with the deadeye wrap and chain connection I have grown a whole new appreciation for yours and others. What thickness of brass is your strap and what gauge of wire? I think I may have to do some re-engineering in my construct. My graduate advisor on day told me while I was griping about my effort leading to dead ends - "That's why they call it RE-search, know one gets it on the first search.... so you re-search, then re-research......." Joe was the master of sarcasm and motivation. I never am so amazed as by the tasks that look easy in pictures, but in practice are not so easy to achieve. So far my scrap bin is now 2 scrap bins and I'm still working on figuring out metal work. The soldering of metal work is so different from my prior experience of wiring where appearance isn't as important as function.

I'm also glad to see you back. I think what Petehay is referring to is the pictures from December and other months also. The MSW server had some sector loss and the photos on those sections were lost. The last couple of pages of this build seems to have gotten hit, I didn't go back further though. I had over 200 go missing in logs. If you have the pictures still and can repair the void, it would be Greatly appreciated as your adventure into the MBLS is a build log worth having fully archived. I found it very interesting, informative and just fun to follow and I don't think I'm alone in that. Personally I like to go back and reread build logs that have been an inspiration to me, I would include your series in that category and a year from now I'm sure it will be as new and fun as the first time through. As I go back now over a year from beginning and reread certain logs, I find it interesting just how much that I have grown in the last year from both building and watching other great minds and hand create. By the way, I still find the simple blue stripe very striking and elegant in its simplicity. Keel 4 is a Beauty.

What an amazing journey Grant, She's a magnificent piece of historic art that will be a family heirloom for generations. I highly admire your cutting into the hull, especially at this point in the build, to add the sheave blocks, That must have taken nerves of steel but you've proven that your equipped with those as you've progressed through one of the more complex ships that can be built and came out on top. I really look forward to your building of the other ships boats. I'm glad you decided to include the cutters. Aren't they clinker built? That should be fun to watch you master. Your building of the first ships boat gave me a whole new appreciation for those small little vessels. I hope to some day attempt a clinker built hull and look forward to learning from your example. Somewhere, I can feel Nelson smiling..... I think of his quotes - England expects that every man will do his duty. and Duty is the great business of a sea officer; all private considerations must give way to it, however painful it may be. --- Horatio Nelson To an Officer and Gentleman, Thanks for sharing your build with us as it helps MSW and her community immensely to have your archival for future builders and not just those of the Victory. I've taken nearly everything I've learned from seeing the work of others and one of the most important lessons I've learned is that of perseverance and determination. Your Victory is definitely a Victory, Congrats.

As I contemplate the construction of the upper chain and deadeye interface for my build I worry about the exact problem you had. I'm so glad to the members of MSW that are willing to share the struggles as well as the solutions around those problems, It makes life easier for those of us doing it the first time. Not that I'm saying I'll get it on the first try now, but rather it instills the cold hard fact that in scratching an assembly that even the masters of this art with many wonderful builds under their belt, still have issues and do-overs are just a part of a learning curve that just seems to be an integral part of this hobby. Thanks for sharing, I like the design of your chains. It makes me wonder if I should reconsider how I construct mine.

I too like your decision to display your gun-ports as you have. If I'm remembering correctly Kevin on his Vicky was doing the same. So many display war ships with all guns out and in reality ships didn't live a very large percentage of there life in that stance. I can imagine a warm summer day and the ports being opened to ventilate the lower decks of the ship. Down below must have been a lot nicer with the cross ventilation of opening ports and grating air flow. Although, according to the theories I've read she went down ready to fire salute and due to low ballast, sat high in the water and the roll caused the ports to become water inlets. Center of Mass strikes again, luckily it left her for us to see and research her today. I also like your logic on the weathering as the Goth reconstruction picture you showed has that same look of weathering as you show. Its good to see the trees in the background of your masterpiece stating to leaf out also, welcome springtime.

YIKES! Surgeries are no fun with Lyme, My last (and 8th) hernia is what pushed me over the edge and into disability. It was wall to wall mesh this time around, I was quadruple herniated and there's not much wall left and the mesh doesn't adhere correctly. It seems that spirocetes love collagen, they wear I as a disguise to hide from the immune system. Tricky spiro-bacteria, I think medicine has them WAY under estimated. The antibiotics they gave me in the hospital reacted with the protocol I was on and the die off nearly killed me. That herx lasted for months and I thought I would die. Beware of the antibiotics as they typically administer them in surgeries. I'm not sure with carpal tunnel, but Tammy would know as that's her field. She says that you should talk to the Dr as they use it in only specific cases usually. She says to also discuss steroids as some Dr's inject steroids and I've had 2 meltdowns from steroids, one leading to meningitis. I don't know if you've experienced any of this but just wanted to pass it on. I feel for you and understand the anxious mind of neuro-borealis and its neurological effects. I never understood what a panic attack was and couldn't understand a friend that had them, now I wish I still didn't know. It's sad that experience sometimes has to be the ticket the empathy. I'm sure you'll do fine though, carpal tunnels are becoming route anymore. Tammy says they do a lot of them, so if you have any question that she might help calm your nerves, she'd be glad to help. Plus once its over think how much easier building will be. You already know that you on my mine and in my prayers. Just keep telling your self its just another hurdle and every experience in life has a lesson that can be learn if your open to that.

Hello Jeff, I appreciate your response, frankness and honesty. To my understanding payment in advance meant some time shortly before cutting started I was thinking a week or two at most as you state "Even though we custom mill each order, our normal processing time for orders is about 10 days.", but in emails you talked of having 120 days of production from April and May and others spoke of a 3 month wait. I think the confusion came from this - From your wording from the site "For first time customers we request receipt of payment in advance of processing your order." I read this as "processing" meaning the task of cutting not the task of making an order form. I'm not making excuses and hopefully some can see how that wording might be interpreted wrong, especially by new builders. My first job was in a meat processing house and to me processing is the physical task of cutting. I wish someone had informed me otherwise. I'm glad this was able to be cleared in the presences of the community without hard feelings. I've never had hard feeling really, just a sense of loss as I sometimes feel as if I'm alone in a crowd of people. I could have been offended that you said I ranted, but I did, due to my confusion. I also explained in my apology how my disability causes me to not always respond as I might have wished I had. Just to show my willingness to lay all the cards on the table, here's the email that was a rant. I believe in full disclosure and don't feel I was intentionally offensive, it was a knee jerk reaction to a misunderstanding. Hello Jeff I'm not exactly sure where to start. First I would like to say that you've been great at customer service and taken the time to personally answer the numerous questions I've had. I guess the problem I have is that I've been disabled since 2008 and the budgets tight. I also understand you produce some of the best wood for modeling available. I guess the problem I have is with your 2 statements in your last email. " Also as a new customer, I would appreciate payment in advance, so that is another reason for just ..." and "so you will not want to wait until the last minute or your order will be pushed back into mid-November..." First off I realize your a busy person and I respect that. You have a thriving business, no doubt due to you efforts. I don't understand why because I'm a new customer I'd need to prepay in august for an order that may not arrive until november. It isn't the time issue as the wood I want probably won't be used until next year anyway, I'm just planning in advance as I knew you were a busy man. I always expect to have money debited from my account before a purchase on anything I've bought for building so far, but months in advance seems a bit extreme. I started building because at 43 my life was stolen by a disease that 45 Dr's so far haven't been able in 5 years to figure out what disease has completely stolen my life. Building is really all I have and it has given me a sense of self worth I lost with total disablity. I say this not for sympathy but so that you know from where I am coming. It's a hobby I strickly budget for because its important, but I don't have the means to pay months before shipment and wouldn't even if budget wasn't an issue. Maybe I've misunderstood. I never expected a saw or sander to start on a custom cut until you had money in hand, but to pay months before you can even make an estimate of arrival time seems a bit extreme. Maybe I'm just not the type of customer you want or need, which is a shame as I really wanted to do business with you and support your efforts and mine. Maybe I just do not fit the profile of your customer base. Maybe I just misreading your last email. Communication and respect are important to me. I respect what you do and undertand the uniqueness of what you do, I just get the feeling I'm not the type of customer you need. I apologize for the trouble I've put you through answering my questions. I alway expected to pay before cutting but not far in advance of the job. I find this very dissappointing as I really looked forward to doing business. I apolgize for wasting your time on this matter. Respectfully and Sincerely Keith I have reread that message many times and looked at it from both your and my prospective. It can be seen 2 ways and neither is wrong or right, it all depends on prospective. Also I hadn't made up my mind on exactly what I wanted as both you and Chuck were instructing me to use the basswood from the kits framing. I felt it was my decision, if I chose to attempt fret sawing the frame pieces from boxwood, why shouldn't I be able to attempt that if I wanted to. If one never does anything different to push the envelope, then I feel that is the line one imposes as their personal limitations. You say that both you and Chuck say it would have been "impractical" but I though I was the captain of my build. I've heard that many time on MSW and believe it. I respected both you and Chucks opinions, but feel it ultimately is my decision, so I felt I was being told to just conform to the rules. This isn't my nature, in grad school my advisor told me that my research direction was impractical and something he would not help me with, but I still did it anyway. I find failure and an uplifting experience and choose to try the things others avoid. I finished my graduate research and I'm sure I can find a way of building an all boxwood pinnace. I don't care how many times I fails and one only truely fails when one quits. I always saw the build being made completely out of boxwood and found the curve to switch and use the basswood bewildering. This is why I waffled on the order. I also explained many times in our conversations that time was of no issue, I felt that you thought I had some time pressure imposed on you completing by a certain date from your previous email to my rant. Your last email before my rant went into a lot of detail about your prior months orders and the future few months and it made me feel as though I was wasting your time and honestly if you have 2 hours of emails a day to content with, I honestly was and many of the things I said in the "rant" are true from my prospective. I may have come off from your prospective as harsh but for me it was a sincere concern as a new builder, wasting the time of a master of his craft. I'm sorry for that and wish I had been better informed prior to contacting you. I never had a time issue, as I planned the build for this year. I stated this at several points through our conversations, but your response of "I guess that I could have deliberately lied about his lead time" really seems to be an issue in your mind still, where it NEVER was in mine. I'm sure your always under stress of trying to meet deadlines, I got that feeling over our many conversions and posssibly you projected your feeling of urgence on to me, thinking I was somehow rushing you or asking for favors. This was never my intent. You state on your home page " Even though we custom mill each order, our normal processing time for orders is about 10 days." and you mentioned taking October off, I just feel that you felt I had you under some time pressure that I was never aware of or even considered. If the problem was that I was taking too much time, again I wish I'd known. Honestly if the order had not been made by January, I would have carried less. My issue was the outlay of cash for months, which I didn't expect due to what I've already stated. If this is your case, then your a victim of your own high standards and completely took me wrong from the beginning. My ignorance of your time pressure only made this worse. Maybe I should have been more serious and only contacted you when I knew what I wanted, but honestly until talking with you, I didn't even know for sure. I suppose due to being new I didn't completely understand that you don't make any profit in cutting wood either, as a matter of fact that is surprising and inspiring to me. If that's listed on your site I missed it and if it was something I should have known from being an MSW member, I didn't join MSW officially until Post-crash and no one from the many that recommended you mentioned it. This should be posted on your site or let it be known through MSW as uninformed people such as myself are always liable to misunderstand. If you do this and make nothing from it, then I have nothing but immense respect for you and your efforts. It also changes the playing field of what HobbyMills is and does. I wonder how many know this fact as I was always under the impression that you were doing this as a hobby turned into your making a living doing what you love. Hopefully my willingness to air dirty laundry will help prevent confusion for others in the future and make your task easier. I publicly apologize for anything in my rant that you took as over the top. I just never received any closure from this experience and question my sanity daily. I never intended to offend and had I completely understood your payment policies I would have not have added to your workload. I did sincerely appreciate your finding out all the wood needed for the Pinnace, sheet stock included as I still plan to push the envelope on that build and your list aided me in that. Thank you for you time in responding and helping to give me closure on an issue that has haunted me for months. Your closing statement of "I rarely post on such matters because they do not add value, but perhaps some readers will have acquired some insight into HobbyMill, it's policies, and my thoughts. Hopefully they seem logical and reasonable to most readers." I see great value in what you have said, if I had read your response prior to last years episode, it wouldn't have happened. Maybe this shouldn't be brought up in public, but am willing to take the chance to help make MSW a better community. Communication is very important to me and yet I find it is so many time a double edged sword.

Hey Tim I had the same issues. They don't seem to be linked or at least I couldn't find them. Go to the search and type longboats, you should get 8 choices. 5 sizes of POF and 3 bread and butter. I waited around last year and one month they had them marked down to $2 a piece. I couldn't resist and bought 2 each. PS ME's offer code is AP18 at the moment for discounts

Hello Brian, Not to be argumentative, but its a bit closed minded to say "he is very obliging to everyone else on this forum". I see that as a stretch, as we have 12,116 members and I really doubt he has had contact with every one of MSW's members. I thought long and hard before I posted this as I feared being labeled as that guy that couldn't get along with Jeff at HobbyMills. As this is the General Discussion Forum though, I felt obliged to inform only, as I never quite understood just what happened. I also seemed to be able to order wood from Wayne (3 times so far) and the Lumberyard without incident. As a matter of fact Brian, I could take what your saying to mean that I'm the only problem in a hub of 12,116, from the way you worded your response using "everyone else". See how easy words can be twisted. But I take no offense to what you said and don't think you intended it to be that way. Let's not forget the fiasco of just a few months ago, where good members now lurk or don't show due to communication issues. We had Admin's and users leaving over nothing but words. We are a community and must communicate. As a multi-lingual community, that issue becomes even harder. I'm glad I hear so many great comments about HobbyMills wood, Jeff supports MSW so I'd be stuppid if I didn't, but still don't completely understand exactly what I did. My reason for posting wasn't to destroy but to inform others that not "everyone" has been "very obliged." I find I prefer a complete view which may include bad with good. Honestly I was quite disturbed by Jeff's response. I've questioned if I was the problem and have wondered if maybe I am the only person Jeff's refused to sell to. For a new builder it was quite a devastating blow to have every one say "go here" then not get the same happy fuzzy feeling that everyone goes on about. I know it is hard for some to see a critique as anything but a personal attack on someone that they cherish, but this isn't that. I hold no hard feeling towards Jeff, he caused me to go elsewhere and I found new avenues for supplies and made a new friend in Wayne. I will say that Jeff went above and beyond prior to the issues, we figured out what was needed to complete the kit in complete boxwood, not using the kits basswood laser cut frame sheets. We corresponded for 2 1/2 months and he had already sold many Pinnace replacement wood kits as he was already out of the boxwood kits. I always found it odd that no one else prior to me had asked about the laser cut framing sheets though. To address your 2nd question, the question wasn't over method of payment, it was over a confusion on how and when payment was to be made. I had planned to mail a check, but the way he made it sound he wanted the check in August and he couldn't give an estimate of delivery time, except November or later for delivery. I questioned why I needed to pay 3 months in advance. Honestly it never got beyond that question because in my questioning payment and delivery I somehow said something wrong, I guess. I felt as though I'd wasted a lot of his time, like I said we corresponded on the wood for 3 months, figuring out what was to be needed as his Pinnace replacement kit doesn't have the 3" sheets for the frames as they are laser cut. Those I was going to need to add and hand cut, which wasn't a problem for me. PLEASE EVERYONE, This isn't to pick on Jeff. Everyone has a bad day, most of mine are that way. Its just sad that communication can become such an obstacle and I have always had a funny feeling when wood purchasing is mentioned after this experience. I needed it to be shared. It's kinda like when I was a teacher and asked to write letters of recommendation. I honestly had to tell some they didn't want the letter I'd write and I believe in telling it as it is. Whose to blame for my issues, fate and communication. Jeff is a busy man, He's under a load keeping builders happy. I was new and didn't know how things worked. Maybe someone can answer this for me. Is it expected to pay up to 3 month before receiving product from Jeff? this was the question I got no response to. Maybe I expected to much or said to much in my misunderstanding. Its water under the bridge and over as I see it. Like my recent issues with Midwest, which I felt obliged to bring up, this is the same. http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/5727-poor-service-after-the-sale-regarding-midwest-products/ I also wanted to mention that there are other ways to procure scale wood. I would never tell anyone to NOT buy from Jeff. I just always wondered what happened and why he decided that I'd crossed some line, when I didn't know that I had. Sadly I can't say my HobbyMills experience was good. I can say that the wood from Wayne and the LumberYard were everything I needed. I know this is somewhat off topic but where other then in a scale wood discussion?

I agree, more pictures. You've taken this build so far from its roots its hard to fathom. Magnificently done hexnut. I too find that the more I learn the more I realize my ignorance, but that's why our brains are designed to acquire new information I guess. Its also why I like this hobby so much. Thanks for the inspiration you pass along by sharing your vision.

I'm really rather sad and happy that this topic has been broached. Its something that's been eating at me for nearly a year and I think deserves saying. I've read so many glowing reports of Jeff's wood and I really wish that I could join the club, so to speak, but Jeff refuses to sell to me. I really feel this should be brought up, not to destroy Jeff in anyway but to give a complete picture. I appreciate Jeff's supporting MSW, but I also see MSW supporting Jeff in his dream of making a hobby a money maker. I also understand Jeff wanting to keep it old school, but if that's his choice, I feel he should be a bit more forgiving of the confusion that such practices may cause those of us that use methods such as Paypal. Last year, I was still new to this hobby and I followed everyones lead and contacted Jeff about replacement wood for Chuck's designed MS Pinnace. He sells a replacement wood kit. I inquired about the content of the wood replacement set as there was no list of what it contained and found that had I ordered it, that there was no 3" sheeting for the frames. Jeff even contacted Chuck about this. After a dozen or so communiucations, I questioned Jeff's payment policy, due to my thick brain and I was thinking he wanted a check months before I'd ever see the wood, this was due to a comment he made in an earlier email of "Also as a new customer, I would appreciate payment in advance" Long story short, when I recontacted Jeff after nearly 2 weeks without a response, I was told "Sorry, I didn’t realize that you were expecting a response. I appreciate your comments; however, you should find a different approach as I will not be accepting your order." I was crushed. Not because he refused to do business with me, but that I'd misworded something in such a way, that it made him unwilling to do business with me. My Lyme infection effects the way I think and respond sometimes and maybe the way I worded something offended him. If so it was never intended as such. This is one of the reasons I hate language as it leaves so much to interpretation, and meaningless words can be taken SO wrong. I did write Jeff a long apology, but never heard back and assumed he has more work then needed and I was an easy cull from his que. I'm glad he's busy and I'm glad everyone else loves his work, but I was just left feeling empty as we had been in communication for several months (first email June 14, last one August 19) working out how to make a complete wood replacement set for the Pinnace. I just couldn't understand how such an investment in correspondence could be washed away with one small misunderstanding over words. So, I just found someone that seemed to understand me as an individual better, as this is a big old world and not all relationships are meant to be. I found an individual that sells scale wood on ebay, Wayne Cantin. I don't deal with him through ebay as Wayne custom cuts for me. Heck I purchased a 2" x 4" x 3' block of castillo and a bunch of ebony knife blanks and sent them to Wayne for cutting also. Maybe Wayne doesn't do as good a job as Jeff, I'll honestly never know, and besides you can buy alot of sandpaper fairly cheap if needed. To date Wayne has cut over $300 in scale wood for me and I've been overjoyed with it. Wayne's email is TALLSHIPS3@AOL.COM BTW, my first order from Wayne was made on a Saturday and it arrived packed in PVC pipe that following wednesday. Thats a pretty fast turn around on a wood order, since I expected a 3 month wait based on what I was told previously. I have also had the Lumberyard (Dave and Ev) cut the boxwood and holly sheeting I needed and was very happy with the wood and Ev's correspondence. Please don't think this is me just railing on HobbyMills or Jeff. He's a busy guy and lucky enough to make a living doing his Hobby. I just thought it odd that mere words were enough to cause him to refuse to sell to me, especially after 3 months of correspondence. I too feel it would be to his benefit to use Paypal. Not because its new and everyones doing it, but rather to prevent future confusion for new builders such as myself. ..and quite frankly, if you can't trust paypal then you can't trust your bank or credit or debit cards. I've used Paypal dozens of times as I'm homebound and depend on the Admiral to drive. And Western Union... if you want to talk about fee's, their fee's are huge compared to Paypal.

She will make a beautiful crown to sit atop you 'Snake. Excellent build, thanks for sharing.

Looks great! The Maid is one sleek vessel. She has some fine lines, I wonder how fast she was? She looks like she could fly. A trick I've learned on the indents left from drying wet wood, left by clamps, pins..... Take a small paint brush and rewet the indented area, keep applying to that one spot over and over. As the water soaks in, the dent will expand again and sometime you can't even see the indent. I don't know if this works with all woods but I've used it several times to take out some nasty indents. Even if it doesn't remove it completely it will usually bring it into sand out mode.

Its never an easy task when you have to put a hole through the hull, at least for me. Nicely done!

As I sit and eyeball the 3rd picture, that is a great shot, I'm considering deck camber. On the Swift the deck is high on the ends in the direction of the keel and high in the middle with the frames. Its compound shape is a bugger to glue down but Its one of the things I love about the Pilots framing. The SM appears to have a much flatter deck. That may be the photo as angles play tricks with perspective. Would that explain rear exit of H2O verses side exit? How would the deck sit when she was floating. Would it angle back slightly?

Maybe I'm remembering wrong, I'll blame lyme-fog , didn't someone post that the SM was designed to sit low in the stern and that the back was opened so water could exit fast? Did she have scuppers? On the DSotM I made up my own pattern for the scuppers, but that's me. I've always liked PopJacks scuppers in his Swift, how he cut them into the waterway so they would drain correctly. That was a fun build log. I'm sure someone has better ideas then I do on the historic nature of this next question. Its fun working through these details. You made the correct decision to paint and I'm sure whatever comes from this will be just as right. BTW, Jesse. did you paint or stain the timberheads. Their colour and contrast is perfect with the deck. This is really turning into a beauty of a build. Also how did you finish your deck. I'll be doing The DSotM's soon and really like the sheen of yours. I'm planning tung with steel wooling. also what gauge steel wool did you use on your hull. I think I have both 000 and 0000 but need to check.

I myself spend hours, over days, which fade into weeks, watching others without progressing myself. Although lulls in building that appear that way outwardly, often are rather busy in our own minds, making decisions and working through obstacles, both perceived and real. Learning by watching others. I'm completely satisfied with Ron's "I don't know" as it make completely good sense to me. All I know is that I'm thankful for all that Ron has shown and taught me about building, of the greatest things, I think the fact that patience and perseverance lead to quality is one of the best learned from his build. I'm sure his build log is worth another reread, the good ones are All I know is that I'll be here when "I don't know" becomes pictures again, quality is worth the wait.

I agree - that 3rd picture shows the beauty of symmetry. Great work my friend! I also really like the graininess and colour of your decking, It looks so very realistic.

It has to be more flexible then the cherry veneer, that's for sure. Thanks for posting. Now to decide. Finish making cherry or make all new with a dollar bill. I some how think that $ bill hoops would be faster, and I think I like the black. Oh well I have plenty of time to change my mine back and forth.

Thanks on the hoop info to come. I was mainly interested in your glue choice, PVA or CA. I've made about half of those I need so far from cherry veneer using PVA, but the black I think would look good as a contrast since I've been adding some ebony accents. Plus I'm always interested in new methods. I agree whole heartedly with the Remco Philosophy, It's like the old Johnny Cash tune, one piece at a time.