AON

I received a response from Kews.  They sent me links to help me search. I spent 3 hours searching from 4AM to 7AM.  I found 3 documents, masters logs for the periods of 1790-91, 1793-94 and 1794-95.  These may or may not have any mention of guns and there placement.  I did not find any mention of Ordnance or Gunner's records for this ship or her sister ships.

I tried looking at models and figures at NMM.... I hate the new layout.

Yes please.

I copied out the documents in an attempt to zoom in to read but that made them a little fussy.

As best I can tell it reads that the 74`s had 12 Pdr carronades fore and aft in 1779.

I have a statement from the boy that the 74 I`m interested in had 18 Pdr aft and 32 Pdr forward.

If I can get this as a document from the gunner (his father) and it gives the location other than ``forecastle`` I`m golden.

Yes Mark (and Druxey) I've read that also.

I've also read a listing of ships that had carronades... and the Bellerophon was not on the list... but then how was it they got tossed if they weren't there and why would the "youngster" , the gunner's son, say 74's had 82 guns when he was on the Bellerophon with his father?

I'll read your images when I get inside and on my computer... on my phone at the moment.

Morgan,

I`ve contacted The National Archives (Kews) to attempt to get the records by John Hindmarsh Sr. , the first gunner assigned to Bellerophon.  He was with her for about 10 years.

Their web page states a 10 day wait for a response is typical.  This I do not mind as I am quite some way from installing any guns.

I hope they have something.  If not I`ll ask about the sister ships in the same time period.

Thank you.

The other option which seems obvious except for one thing is found on the forecastle deck plan

The 9 Pdr cannon locations are in red.

I see two cutouts at the head... indicated in blue.

The only problem being that if this is the location it is over top of the cathead/tail beam.

Below is an image of the Goliath forecastle.

The blue arrows are the locations of the 9 Pdrs even though the aft gun location has a rail drawn through it.

The blue arrow might be the location for the carronade.

There is one other possible location further aft where you see a similar gap between deadeyes which offers more room between guns than that of the blue arrow between the red arrows.

These two possibilities are speculation on my point.

Thank you Allan.

I have been looking at RMG/NMM images and models.

If they show anything the carronade is replacing the cannon not used in conjunction with it.

The exact time period would be 1786-1790 but anything showing the location of carronades on the forecastle in conjunction with the 4 x 9 Pdrs c.1800 would be useful.

The book From Powder Monkey to Governor (c. 1800) states "I don't know why they called them 74's when they had 82 guns.

The 74 guns are:

28 x 32 Pdr guns on the lower deck

28 x 18 Pdr guns on the upper deck

14 9 Pdr (short) guns on the quarterdeck

4 x 9 Pdr (long) guns on the forecastle

In addition they had the following 8 guns to bring the number up to 82:

6 x 18 Pdr carronades on the poop (roundhouse)

2 x 32 Pdr carronades on the forecastle

So the carronades did not replace any of the cannons.

I can see where the 4 long 9 Pdrs were located on the roundhouse (poop).

My question is: where were the 2 x 32 Pdr carronades located on the forecastle?

I decided to paint the 3D printed guns I presently have before the wife uses up my can of spray paint on some other project... then put them back into storage.

First up were the swivel guns.

I had to figure out how to hold them... then spotted the Styrofoam sheet in my "keep" pile.

So as the part of the forked support stanchion that sets into the wood swivel gun mounting chock does not need to be painted I simple stuck it into the Styrofoam.

This sat on the rotating pedestal inside a cardboard box to catch any over spray.

A light spray with a acrylic flat black while rotating the pedestal., then let it dry, then repeat a few times.

Now to do the cannons... first up are the 18 Pdrs.

YIKES!

HECK OF A LESSON TO LEARN.

BETTER TO LEARN IT FROM SOMEONE ELSE.

THANKS!  🙄

Blow out?

What happened?

As per the document supplied by Lieste earlier - "The Carronade" by Geoff B. Bailey (Falkirk Local History Society):

Very few had the royal cypher.  They should have a broad arrow to show that they had been proofed by the Navy.

Here the model is done.

I will make the base pieces in wood.

I will scale this 3D model down to 1:64 for the 32 Pdr and then then again at 75% for the 18 Pdr, create my STL file and get them resin printed.

Oh.

I had the impression you must be some multi-billionaire  🤑

Thought possibly you might want to adopt me.

But if you're not made of money.....

🙄

Thank you Druxey... that is one expensive book!

Yes, I see that the 18 Pdr bore was 5.14" in 1780 and 5.16" in 1800.

My point is that this is 0.0803" vs. 0.0806" at 1:64 scale... no one will care about this slight difference on the model.

the 32 Pdr did not change

here is a view from the rear

Here is my model of the barrel.

I am going to create the remainder of the parts via 3D modelling and resin print them.

Druxey,

As you've stated, the Comet was 1783.

Changes introduced by the manufacturer in 1782 would possibly not be in service in the next year, 1783.

This is what I've noted for my time period: Launched in 1786 and in service in 1790.

The paper Lieste provided in an earlier post states both the muzzle cup and the muzzle flash was introduced in 1782, as was the carronade loop replacing the trunnion and simplifying the carriage.

The elevating screw was used in conjunction with the quion; a quoin patch added to the underside of the carronade to deal with recoil forces on the screw.

There was a front sight but no dispatch and stepped sights.

There was a design for sights for the 68 Pdr presented to the Admiralty in May 1782 but the sketch has been lost.  Could this be the stepped sights?  Who knows.

The fighting bolt and swivelling slide was introduced in 1782.

The traversing wheels had shown up in 1790, possibly a bit earlier.

So my guns will be like these two images below, one figure from the paper provided by Lieste and one of my photos from my day sail on the USS Brig Niagara.

The traverse wheels support block will be quite short as I will not require the height, and the fighting bolt (securing pivot bolt) will be mounted outboard.

This is somewhat similar to what Flyer has on his kit build of the Bellerophon except his "bolt" is inboard.

Here is the table I got my info from.

The date is 1805.

Given my build scale of 1:64 I doubt inches or fractions thereof will be noticeable

Thanks Druxey.

Now that is ever so slightly different again.

Why can't things be simple?

Thank you Lieste!  What a wonderfully informative document.  If nothing else it is the first piece that identified the name of all the parts... but it has got me wondering if I am doing the correct thing.

My sources arethe 68 Pdr image found in figure 68 of The Anatomy of Nelsons Ships, page 112, and an article The Carronade by Spencer C. Tucker, page 15 of the NRG March 1997 issue.  There was also a good image on page 173 of Historic Ship Models by Wolfram zu Mondfeld.  I also have a few photos of the carronades on the USS Brig Niagara albiet that would be 1812 era, a bit later and it is hung outboard.

From the latter I determined my guns were 6.25" Bore, 4'-3.5" long and 5.14" Bore, 3'-3" long.

I measured everything of the former and put that on an excel sheet then determined the multiplier from the measured bore size versus that stated above for the larger gun.

Then I applied the multiplier to the measured length and was within a fraction of an inch so I felt quite good.

I applied the multiplier to all other measurements and was ready to create my 3D model.

I would then determine the multiplier to scale down a copy of the larger model to make the smaller gun based on the bore sizes.

The calculated measurement of the smaller gun was within a couple inches... and at 1:64 scale no one will notice so I was happy.

But now from your document it seems there were no wheels at the rear of the slide or skead, nor sights in 1786.  Plus the slide was likely fastened outboard of the hull so the fire from the muzzle was beyond reach of the rigging.

I need to have a closer look at what Flyer did on his kit.

It has been a short while of good warm sunny weather and yard work.  Other than that I've read two wonderful books, From Powder Monkey to Governor and Memoirs of an Aristocrat. Each having first hand information about life in the Royal Navy and, in particular, HMS Bellerophon.  If you are interested in this ship, these are must reads IMHO.

I've also determined how I will be cutting out my gunports but am working on properly fitting my cills at the moment.  When I've got that figured out I will post again with details.

OH! and I am modelling my carronades with FUSION 360 to 3D print the two sizes (2 x 32 PDRS and 6 x 18 PDRS).  Doing the largest and scaling it down for the other.

Just found your "fitting out" of the Bonnie.

I was aboard her in '68 for a tour with Sea Cadets from HMCS Cornwallis on the two week summer camp.  Yes I was a TWIT (two weeky in training).

All I remember was that she was massive.