USS Constitution by Modeler12 - Cross-Section - Bow Area

[Modeler12]

Dan, the general notes mentioned by the Navy is also interesting because there is a significant difference in the height of the keelsom in the various drawings I have seen. A build up of the keel and deadwood, at one time or another, would explain why the forward magazine is as low as it is now. 

When I started this model I followed the layout of the frames and keel as much as I could. But I did not go very far with the inside of the frames. Now I realize that I will have to add more to the keelsom and deadwood than I was going to. Good thing I stopped because now I know that I can show the magazine, fill station and other details as I see them now (as well as on the drawing you supplied me).

 

Here is where I stopped. Notice the extra material for the keelsom. I had no idea at the time what I was in for.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Modeler12

[Modeler12]

Here is my first interpretation of what the forward powder room or magazine would look like on my model.

 

1. The beams as shown in the Navy 1927 drawings would have carlings and ledges framing the scuttle or hatch(s) to the first stage, the 'transfer room'. I use that term based on the sketch supplied by Jonathan.
 

2.There will be a wall separating the transfer room to the powder room. There is a small, hinged window that Henry showed. However, I am not sure if it belongs where I show it (one side or the other). It should be big enough for a small man or boy to crawl through (no other entry).

 

3. The ceiling of the powder room will have a solid sheet of copper and the rest of the structure will also be coppered, including the posts (just like the magazine in the aft section). 

 

4.The two 'rooms' will be interconnected but not easily crossed. The height between the top of the keelson and deck above will be only a foot or so.

 

5. In the center there will be shelves for storage of empty and filled cartridges and perhaps a small keg of gun powder for 'repair and balancing' the cartridges. There is no way to bring 100 pound kegs here, so the main filling will be done aft (just like Mark suggested). 

 

Keep in mind that in both rooms the ceiling height is only about three feet.

The part that says 'copper sheets here' will not be there. This will be one section where the frames and beams will be cut away to show the interior.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Modeler12

[cwboland]

Some great ideas here. Can't wait to see how it works out for you

[DanO]

Looking good

[lambsbk]

Really a challenging project Jay. I agree: can't wait to see her.

[Modeler12]

Really a challenging project Jay. I agree: can't wait to see her.

Challenging it is, Dave.

 

I don't mind doing the small stuff such as making the stove, but to re-do the drawings and decks that I have built thus far is a pain.

I keep finding details I was unaware of before, so I am also making new drawings such as the side view and cross sections. These will be my interpretations and may not correspond to published data (or lack thereof). They will be a composite of what I now understand. An example is the raised keelsom and the sections next to that. I will show you what I have in mind after my vacation (leaving tomorrow morning).

 

I couldn't help it, but I finished a rough draft of the side view as I see it. No labels. And that is not a swimming pool in the basement, it is part of the 'fresh water tanks' made of lead sheets.

There are several other additions, but I will go over that later.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Modeler12

[Modeler12]

Here is the same picture with some IDs. I added the door to give this thing some perspective.

It still leaves me surprised that the magazine or powder room is as low as it appears to be. My only guess is that they wanted the floor to be well above the keel and its moisture. Yet, in the aft magazine there was no concern along that line (according to the pictures I have seen).

The hanging and standing knees you see on the gun and berth decks are as they are now on the ship. I had made numerous C-knees (as I called them) for the berth deck. But it turns out that for this part of the ship I only need two on each side.
 

Back to bed and a long drive this morning.

[GLakie]

Sure is a small area to work in.  Must have picked the smallest men on the ship for that task! 

[JSGerson]

I traded some Constitution plan images with DanO recently and found this 1906 plan drawing of the Orlop deck in the images he sent me. They were larger than the site would allow, so I've re-sized them to the max the site does allow. I don't know if you have it, but you got now.

[Modeler12]

Thank you JS. I have copies of those drawings. They are not of the current Connie, but interesting.

I am still plugging away drawing cross sections on the basis as I see things now. That includes some guesses about the size of the fresh water tanks and inside layout of the powder room. All other details come from my full scale model drawings and the side views I have.

 

Meanwhile, I have made the five posts for the forward fife rail. These will be glued in place during the final assembly. There will be two more 'posts' or riding bits along the right edge. They will also have round ends to fit into the deck planking.

[Modeler12]

Some more details about the fife rail. All is still loose, including the steel cleats in the riding posts. I tried to use square pieces here, but gave up in favor of something more stout. After the actual rail with the belaying pins, and the cleat/sheaves on the side of the riding posts are done, I intend to make this a sub-assembly and stain the whole thing to give it some contrast.

 

[Modeler12]

To continue the 'furniture' on the spar deck.

I changes my mind about making all of the fife rail pieces one assembly.

There are seven posts and holes to align and I am not that good to do that during the final assembly.

First of all the five posts should align and eventually be glued in place.

 

Then the fife rails and riding posts come next. They will be glued at some point, but not yet.

Sorry, the next picture is turned on edge; it is just so the pins won't fall out.

To cut the process easier, I decided to have the fife rail (sans belaying pins) and the two riding posts be one sub-assembly. There are grooves in the posts that matches the rails, so that is why they are held together. Yet, all is 'loose' (no glue yet).

Then this should line up with the five posts as shown. At this point they will eventually be glued together.

PS. The foremast fits between all of this too, I hope.

 

 

Edited August 18, 2015 by Modeler12

[GLakie]

The posts and rails turned out nice Jay. Your method for making all the belaying pins identical in size seems to have worked out great. What was that method anyway? 

[dgbot]

People do not realize how long and difficult those small bit are to do crisp and clean Bravo and good eye.

David B

[Modeler12]

The posts and rails turned out nice Jay. Your method for making all the belaying pins identical in size seems to have worked out great. What was that method anyway? 

It is called 'buy them on the internet'. 

I will have to look that up, but I have lots of them in brass and I simply blackened them.

I will need more for the side rails much later on, so there is a box full (well, not full, but you know what I mean)

 

People do not realize how long and difficult those small bit are to do crisp and clean Bravo and good eye.

David B

Thank you David. But the right equipment helps.

A couple years ago, when I started with my full scale Connie, I though I had most of the tools I needed. After all, I have been dong wood working for almost 50 years. But that was making furniture. decking, crown-moulding, etc.

The small stuff was a experience to me and eventually I invested in a mini lathe and a mini mill to do what I like best now.

It has opened a whole new world of making small models for me.

More about all of this later (and I won't even mention what I have learned about brazing metals, making rope, using my wife's sewing machine, etc).

[Canute]

Jay, your work is so precise. Well done.

[Guest Tim I.]

I have to say, the Constitution is a hard topic to model. I have done extensive research on the Constitution, for papers in graduate school and my own scratch models of the ship. The challenge I find is the interpretive dissonance. Even with close collaboration on one of my model builds with the historical staff at the Constitution museum, I discovered after the fact I had made an error when new information came to light.

Within the context of my most recent build (Model Expo's 1:76 scale, I will be relying on the plans from the Smithsonian from 1813 and the corresponding sail plan from 1813-15. Although it could be argued that there are "holes" in these plans, there are holes in every set of plans that I have seen on the ship.

 

I like your approach. More directly, your attention to detail and authenticity is important in capturing the essence of the vessel. Th unfortunate aspect of modeling the Constitution, is that a decision point needs to be reached on a way to depict it -- then stick to it. Something I struggle with when new information comes to light.

 

I am really enjoying your cross-section. Keep up the great work.

 

- Tim

[Modeler12]

Interesting comments, Tim. 

I mentioned earlier that my reason for building the cross section was to compliment the full size model that I built from a kit. I am not that involved with the history of the ship and all the modifications that happened over its life span. Hence I took what I thought was a logical approach and followed the drawings in Marquardt's book. Unfortunately he does not clearly state the source and date that those drawings represent. I still think he made a major error in the location of the aft riding bits, oven, chimney and the subsequent deletion of hatches on the gun and berth deck. Even the Wade drawing of 1812 verifies my statement.

 

As a result, I have now done what you mentioned above, I am doing this model my way using the best information available and not worrying about real or imagined modifications that occurred over the last 200 plus years. Even right now they are doing some 'repair' and 'refurbishing' work that may end up giving the bulwarks a different appearance. So why worry?  

[Modeler12]

The forward fife rail is done. After I install it during the final assembly, the posts and riding bits will be glued in place and the whole will get a brushing and a couple coats of Polywipe. For now they go into a box along with other 'furnishings'.

Onto the next step which is????

Edited August 19, 2015 by Modeler12

[DanO]

Jay,

Missing your posts hope all is well.

 

Dan

[Modeler12]

Jay,

Missing your posts hope all is well.

 

Dan

Thanks Dan, but all is well (relatively speaking). I had a mishap on Lake Shasta when I went flying around a turn at about 30 mph behind the ski-boat and skidded along the water surface for about ten feet, or so. I came up smiling; no broken bones, but nice bruises (with loud applause by my grand kids on the boat). I grinned and afterwards got lots of 'treatment' and comments from my dear wife. 

At 78 I am still their hero.    

 

 

I am still involved with my cross section, but have taken a bit of a diversion with my 'tools'. Namely, the attachments to my milling machine. Now that I have finished what I wanted for the mill, I will get back to the cross section (slowly)

I am adding more of the frames and that is slow going. Lots of adjusting and sanding. My frames are quite wide (or thick?) which is good for all the miss-alignments that need to be taken care of. I hate sanding.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Modeler12

[GLakie]

Glad you're OK Jay.  Water-skiing at 78?  You've got way better knees than me.   

[mtaylor]

You're a better man than I, sir to be water skiing.  Hey... that water looks "clean".  Last time I saw it, the water level was down and the warter was brown.

[Modeler12]

You're a better man than I, sir to be water skiing.  Hey... that water looks "clean".  Last time I saw it, the water level was down and the warter was brown.

The water level was way down and launching boats required a long drive down dirt 'roads'. But the water was clear and not too cold. Warm weather helped.

 

Now that I finished the rotary table adapter for my mill, I have no excuse not to continue with my model project, right? Unless the admiral tells me differently.

[Modeler12]

So here we go with the next increment of this cross section (which will take a long time to complete). 
 

Gun powder cartridges:

The lowest usable section of this parts of this ship will be the gun powder room, water tanks and other storage areas. Earlier I mentioned the confusion about the powder room in the forward section and how it relied on the various modifications of the ship. The part that struck my fancy was the last revision that made the powder room(s) way down deep below the orlop deck, and a drawing provided by Jonathan is what I will go by.

I have made book shelves in the past, but never this small. I started with some 1/32 inch thick boxwood for the back, shelves and sides. Then I cut some blocks for the spacers and coated them with wax. The following pictures show how I assembled the storage shelves for the gun powder cartridges and two small powder kegs. When assembled, the room will be lined with copper sheets.

 

 

Edited October 2, 2015 by Modeler12

[Guest Tim I.]

Jay,

 

If I may ask, where did you find the illustration?

 

Thank you,

 

Tim

[GLakie]

That powder shelf will make an impressive addition to the detail Jay!  Nice work! 

 

Cheers

[shiloh]

Aboard the Helena CA 75 there was a water tank in each Gun Room of the 8" turrets that would hold the normal 2 bag charge. No tanks in the Magazine or the Upper and Lower Powder handling Rooms. We were using modern Smokeless Powder as a Propelling Charge, there was a Black Powder ignition charge in a packet attached to the rear of the Powder Bag, which was always on the up side when placing the powder bags into any of the Hoists or Scuttles. The Black Powder was one important reason for the water tanks in the Gun Rooms, Smokeless powder is fairly stable and the grains were large enough to quickly clean up in the event of a broken powder bag, If something happened in the gun room that might spark the Black Powder, it went in the tank so the gun room was safe from a self inflicted explosion. Also the powder handling devices were made of aluminum or brass at all points of contact except the chamber of the gun.

All the BS because I would expect to see a water tub in the Outer Powder Handling Room for safety reasons, perhaps also in the Magazine, could not see any in the illustration. Might also be water tubs, on deck near the shown powder passing Deck Ports.

jud 

Edited October 2, 2015 by shiloh

[Modeler12]

Jay,

 

If I may ask, where did you find the illustration?

 

Thank you,

 

Tim

The picture was provided by JSGerson who found it at the following site:

http://www.asailorslifeforme.org/educator/scene_magazine-in-battle.php

 

This seems to correlate with the photos sent to me by Henry (Popeye2sea), the local expert in Boston.

 

http://www.asailorslifeforme.org/educator/scene_magazine-in-battle.php

[Guest Tim I.]

Thank you!

 

- Tim