10th-11th century Byzantine dromon by Louie da fly - FINISHED - 1:50

[md1400cs]

Steven,

 

Just catching up -- Such a pleasure following your superb build !! Looks awesome 

[Louie da fly]

7 hours ago, druxey said:

However, the rowers were not a Broadway chorus line:

Hmm, you're right. Even the best rowers show a certain amount of variation. Look at 3.57 and 11.00 at 

 

 

On close inspection, I do see a certain amount of variation; even a suggestion of the occasional crab being caught. 8.19 doesn't count - they're just getting back into their stroke after not rowing on one side, to allow the ship to turn. (I wonder how tightly she could turn if one side backwatered!)

 

Thanks everybody for all the likes and the encouraging comments.

 

Steven

 

 

[mtaylor]

I was thinking the same as Druxey and Patrick.   Leave it..  looks great.

[Kikatinalong]

The model is looking absolutely amazing Steven. Something anyone would be proud to put their name to.

Hats off to you.

[Louie da fly]

Returning for a moment to the discussion of using an anchor chain to weigh down the head of the anchor so it would "bite" better, I'd forgotten I had this:

 

 

It's from the Proceedings of the First Symposium on the Marmaray-Metro (Istanbul) excavations May 2008. Obviously from this the Byzantines were awake to the problem, but had their own solution to it - lead weights inserted into the anchor stock!

 

Steven 

[Mark Pearse]

Very interesting, the weight isn't massive but the 2.2m length would help.

 

The text claims the rectangular hole is for the rope - that doesn't make sense because of the precise rectangularity of the hole looks to be for a specific fitting such as the anchor flukes part. The small square hole just above the rectangular one, & perpendicular, could then be the cross piece (name?) that makes sure the fluke is pointing down.

[Louie da fly]

5 hours ago, Mark Pearse said:

The text claims the rectangular hole is for the rope - that doesn't make sense because of the precise rectangularity of the hole looks to be for a specific fitting such as the anchor flukes part. The small square hole just above the rectangular one, & perpendicular, could then be the cross piece (name?) that makes sure the fluke is pointing down.

Hmm, dunno. I hadn't thought about it, but certainly a nice rectangular hole like that doesn't seem suited to a round bit of rope.

 

Next step in construction:

 

One of the Yenikapi galley finds had slots in the wale to take the ends of the oarbenches.

In line with that I'd made similar slots for the upper oarsmen's benches, but as  I'd already discovered the upper wale was too low for them I added a stringer on top of it to take the slots.

 

While making the oarsmen it was necessary to get the correct relationship between the gunwale (the pivot point of the oars) and the water level (where the oarblades reach to) and the level of the oarsmen's hands; they all have to be in a straight line. Unfortunately, I discovered that even with the new stringer the slots were too low, so either the oarblades would be too low or the oars wouldn't sit on the gunwale or the oarsman's hands would be too high. And anyway as it was the benches would be only about 200mm (10") above the deck - Though an oarbench doesn't need to be as high as a normal chair - and in fact shouldn't be, because it makes the centre of gravity too high - they shouldn't be that low.

 

So I had to raise the notches so the benches would be higher. I decided to add yet another stringer on top of the first one, smoothed off to look like it's part of it, with new slots to get the benches high enough up for the oarsmen to sit properly. Here's the starboard one under way.

I just carved the slots in the underside of the stringer, as the lower stringer would act as the underside of the slot (the photo below shows the stringer from underneath - the diagonal beams are the oars).

 

Here is the port side stringer with one end glued in place, ready to bend round on top of the lower stringer. And the first two starboard benches in place with an oarsman sitting on one. 'E looks 'armless . . . (I'm still working on the exact configuration of the oarsmen's arms to get everything to line up).

After I'd added the starboard stringer I found that some of the slots didn't line up with the ones below them, and I was in the process of ungluing the rotten thing and starting again, when I realised the two slots nearest the bow actually did line up, and the ones on the new stringer were actually better located than the lower ones. So I left it. Then I had the problem of what to do with the lower slots. Fill them up so they couldn't be seen? But as it turns out the oarbenches conceal the lower slots so I don't really have to do anything to them at all.

 

My next step is to get all the starboard benches in place, then I can draw lines across the breadth of the ship at each bench to make sure the port benches line up with the starboard ones - something I hadn't thought of when I started putting the benches in place last time.

 

Steven

[BANYAN]

Back up and running with my new PC (after being hacked  ) - looks great Steven, nice recovery on the lower bank of oars, and I agree, they look very realistic.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Louie da fly]

Thanks everybody for all the likes.

 

I've added all the benches for the starboard side

 

  and lined up the slots for the benches in the port stringer and glued it on

 

  

Here are the benches for the port side ready for gluing into place.

And I've scarphed on the "tail" extensions for the stringers. Once the glue is dry I'll start curving them to fit the curve of the tail.

  

Quiet awhile ago I did a lot of experimenting on how best to make the shields for the pavesade - the row of shields along the side of the ship to protect the upper oarsmen, bearing in mind that real shields were pretty darned thin (usually between 7 and 10mm = about quarter to half an inch), which scales at 1/7 to 1/5 of a millimeter (= about 6 to 10 thousandths of an inch if my maths is correct)

 

 Turns out tissues (as in blowing your nose!) are the best material for this job. I made a mould out of builder's bog, put in layers of tissue glued together with (quite a lot of) PVA (white) glue and squoze (is that a word?) the resultant paper/glue gunge between the male and female halves of the mould. Once dry I had to trim each shield to shape, then sand to get a reasonably smooth surface for painting. I've done about 5 so far - another 45 or so to go.

I've put a lot of research into the shield "devices" (decoration) used by the Byzantines, and once I've made the rest of the shields I'll be able to paint them with accurate designs, though I'm mixing and matching the colours to a certain extent (within the colour palette I know the Byzantines to have used). 

 

Steven 

Edited February 29, 2020 by Louie da fly

[druxey]

'Squoze'? I like the past perfect form! And that is a neat form you've made for shield production as well, Steven.

 

Reminds me of:

 

Forth from his den to steal he stole.
His bag of chink he chunk;
And many a wicked smile he smole
And many a wink he wunk.

 

But we digress!

Edited February 29, 2020 by druxey

[Kikatinalong]

The most enjoyable log to follow Steven. The model improves every with every post. 

The shields look fantastic along with the benches.

Cheers 

Peter 

[Louie da fly]

9 hours ago, druxey said:

Forth from his den to steal he stole.
His bag of chink he chunk;
And many a wicked smile he smole
And many a wink he wunk.

 

But we digress!

Never heard this one - I love it! English is so full of irregular words that don't follow the rules you'd expect them to. I'd hate to have to learn it as a second language. 

 

And if we say "I write, I wrote, I have written" - shouldn't we say "I bite, I bote, I have bitten"?

 

And we have "one horse, two horses" and "one duck, two ducks" but "goose" becomes "geese" and the plural of "sheep" and "fish" is "sheep" and "fish" 

 

But even among native English speakers there are regional variations. It still pulls me up sharply to see someone from the US (I don't know if this applies to Canada as well) write "If I would have thought ahead I would have done a better job" - where I come from it's  "If I had thought ahead I would have done a better job". English is such a mish-mash of other languages it's full of confusion and special cases.

 

Digression welcome!

 

Steven

Edited March 1, 2020 by Louie da fly

[druxey]

You done real good, Steven.

[Louie da fly]

8 hours ago, druxey said:

You done real good, Steven.

 

Steven

[Louie da fly]

I've finished the "tail" stringer.

 

  

And started on the oarbenches on the port side (note the cunning weight I'm using to hold them down).

 

Just a little outline of how I make the shields from facial tissue.

 

I first smear the inside of the mould with something greasy (I've been using butter - it's cheap and easily available) so the paper doesn't get stuck  to the mould.

 

I use a square piece cut from the tissue a little larger than the shield so it overlaps the mould, then put in a blob of PVA glue, then another square of tissue, another blob of PVA, until there are four layers in there (note each tissue is usually "4-ply" i.e. 4 layers of very thin paper, so I end up with probably 16 layers in all). One final blob of PVA, then I push it all down with a fingertip and smooth it around the inside of the mould. The more glue I have on my finger the less likely the paper is to follow my fingertip when I remove it.

 

 

Leave it for several hours till the glue is almost set, the push down again with a fingertip, pushing the paper/glue matrix into all the corners of the mould so it takes up as much detail as possible. 

 

Leave to dry and then lift it carefully from the mould, then cut around the outside to get rid of the excess. Smear another blob of PVA onto the face of the completed shield - I find this improves the surface and gets rid of some of the smaller faults. Sand smooth with fine paper. 

   

Repeat 49 times.

 

I use matt enamel paint (Revell or Humbrol) - I find it gives better results than acrylic - and a very fine watercolour brush.

 

Steven 

 

  

Edited March 4, 2020 by Louie da fly

[goetzi73]

A really good approach. 👍

Your build log ist full of smart ideas like this.

 

Greetings, Götz

[Mark Pearse]

HI Steven

 

that's a clever way to do the shields. What is the mould you're using?

[druxey]

Doing even gooder now, Steven! A neat result with your papier mache technique. ( I apologise to French speakers, but can't seem to conjure up the appropriate accents.)

[Louie da fly]

Thanks for the likes and the comments.

 

Mark, I started out with a "blank" (you know the original thing the mould is cast from -don't know the technical term) made of plasticiene (modeller's clay to those of you who led sheltered lives), then cast it in a little box filled with builder's bog (car filler) - brand name Plasti-bond. When it had set I coated the inside with something greasy so it wouldn't stick and cast the "male" part into it with more of the same stuff. I found you have to be careful to make sure you don't get little bubbles in the mould - though it can be repaired.

 

Now I'm making the shields I find that smoothing with a finger is better than using the male half - it's more reliable and gets the detail better. 

 

I've always had a bit of a thing about the thickness of shields in model ships, having (in a previous life as a mediaeval re-enactor, prior to ship modelling) used a shield myself. Too thick and they get very heavy after a while - not a good thing when you're "fighting for your life". So I spent a lot of time and research trying to figure out how to make them really thin for the model. I tried wood, tinfoil pushed into the mould with a resin backing etc etc. The tissue/PVA technique seems to work best.

 

Steven

[BANYAN]

More kudos on the thwarts, stinger and shield production line Steven.  look forward to seeing this beauty again real soon.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[mtaylor]

Do you remove the butter somehow?  I'd hate to hear that it went ransid and drew bugs to it.

[Louie da fly]

Mark, I don't think there's likely to be a problem. The film of butter is very thin (has to be to get accurate detail), then after removing the shield from the mould I smear PVA over the face of the shield (i.e. the only surface that is in contact with the butter) which should seal it in pretty much, then I paint over the whole outside face with enamel paint. If bugs can get through THAT, they're a better man than I, Gunga Din.

 

Steven

[mtaylor]

Yes, the bugs would be better than any of us.  I guess I just panicked a bit as I'd hate to see the great work you're doing get eaten.

[Louie da fly]

23 hours ago, druxey said:

A neat result with your papier mache technique. ( I apologise to French speakers, but can't seem to conjure up the appropriate accents.)

I've always had trouble with this myself, until I had the epiphany that I could go to google translate, type in the word in the English section, and the French translation would supply the accents. Then copy and paste into the text of my MSW post (i.e papier maché) . It even works with the Greek alphabet! (I haven't tried it with Chinese).

 

Steven

[mtaylor]

Chinese?  Google Translate will do it.   它將使用中文。("It will work".)

[Louie da fly]

Here are the shields at the current state of production. The two on the right-hand end were painted from memory and though they're similar to shield decoration common in Byzantium, they aren't based on any particular shield in the contemporary pictures. The rest in the top line are copied from shields in contemporary iconography. The two on the bottom line aren't quite finished yet - one shield formed and cut to shape, the other still in the mould.

 

And here are the originals:

      

 

Steven

 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by Louie da fly

[Kikatinalong]

Love the shields, as does the Admiral. Very realistic.

 

Peter

[Baker]

beautifully made shields. 

Congrats!

[BANYAN]

Steven had his model on display at the Geelong Wooden Boat Festival held this past weekend; looks even better to the naked eye.  He earned some very well deserved praise and kudos for his efforts from the public.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Louie da fly]

Thanks for the comment, Pat, and thanks to you and Alan of the Ship Modelling Society of Victoria for the opportunity to show the dromon off to the public. It's all very well to be pretty sure you're building a good model, but let's face it, I think we're all closet show-offs, and admiration for your 'baby' is never unwelcome. 

 

Steven

Edited March 10, 2020 by Louie da fly