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Deben 5-tonner by vaddoc - Scale 1:10 - a Whisstock yard design

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8 hours ago, vaddoc said:

I am still not happy with the water based varnishes

Yes - I have never had any success with water based stuff - like you I have always found bonding between layers is a problem. I hope someone knows how to do It well as i am eager to learn. The soldering does look ambitious, I'd be tempted to fold up 2 U sections from strip and then to join them with a single solder joint.

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Sorry to hear about the off day. Something we all have to deal with every once in a while ... usually the best thing is to drop anything you are doing and get away.

 

Since in plastic builds mainly water based paints are used we work a lot with acrylc varnishes too. So it is said ... not true. For instance, Tamiya isn't a real acrylic. Neither is their lacquer. Their rattle can lacquer sticks very well to any other acrylic paint as well, like Mig or Vallejo, maybe you should give theirs a try. Vallejo has rattle cans for clear, and flat as well. Don't use their bottles for airbrush, those are a disaster

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Hi Vaddoc

 

Don’t you just hate it when things don’t go according to plan!  

 

No doubt things will work out once you’ve regrouped and gotten back on track. 

 

Cheers. 

 

Patrick

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Thank you all for your good words. Indeed, a new sun rose and I overcame the difficulties.

 

Keith I did exactly this, folded a U shape strip, not easy at 1 mm. I think it looks ok but much easier to re do if needed. Apologies for the out of focus picture, it is my cheap non-iphone

 

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Carl, spray cans are too messy and too expensive. I did a bit of research and experimenting though and finally all went well using plain wter based acrylic varnish. I suspect either the retarder or some contamination for the previous failure. Check a relevant thread I started

 

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All well now!

 

Regards

Vaddoc

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I'll have a look at your thread. For other readers it might be practical to include a link in your post.

 

Cheers

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A milestone reached today, the ruder is ready! I must say it was much harder work than I thought.

 

I mast have made the hinges 20 times over but finally I was left with 3 acceptable pairs. I wanted the rudder to have some functionality but this meant that everything should be aligned. So careful and gradual installation of the hinges was needed.

 

The pin will be 2 mm wide. I initially drilled and installed the upper and bottom hinges. I used brass pins shortened as they are much better quality and much cheaper than the Amati nails. I used a proper CA glue (BSI insta cure +) instead of the rubbish cheap one I have been using so far. What a revelation! This glue takes no prisoners, a joy to use. The hinges are rock solid.

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Then the other halves were installed on the rudder. Alignment was perfect and the rudder could actually turn both ways.

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The most difficult job was to align the middle hinge. It went surprisingly well. It also turns which I did not really expect! The boat will probably steer very well but only Hercules will be able to turn the rudder, I think it might be a bit too large..

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A couple of issues came up. 

Some scratches due to not being careful. Nothing can be done now!

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The biggest issue though was that I completely forgot and ignored the waterline! It is not aligned but luckily it is close enough. Again, nothing can be done now!

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Then I glued all the rest components of the rudder. The upper hinge is hidden by the wooden panels.

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Doesn't it look like a scorpion?

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The hull is now completed and I will start work on the deck fittings and rigging.

 

Regards

 

Edited by vaddoc

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Bank Holiday in UK and a long weekend so I managed to do some more work.

 

Mark and Keith many thanks for your comments.

 

I worked a bit more on the gooseneck, I ll post some pictures later but it still is not ready. Then I changed focus and started making the chainplates. To define the angles, I had to make a mock rigging. Not elegant but worked fine. The middle pair will reach the top of the mast via spreaders so the angles will be different.

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The chainplates before final trimming. The pieces of wood (I do not know how they are called) need final sanding of the tree nails and a final coat of Tung oil.

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With all chain plates trimmed I started soldering pieces of tube to attach the dead eyes. This actually is proving difficult. The chain plates will be nailed to the planking but I cannot drill the holes for the nails because I destroyed all my carbide 0.7 and 0.8 drills. A piece of drill was left in the hole in a brass piece I was drilling and I did not notice. Trying to complete the hole I destroyed several carbide and a couple of steel drills. Carnage! I cannot use steel drills on my drill press as the colet does not grab such small drills well.

 

A final photo of all the chain plates awaiting soldering and drilling

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Regards

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Many thanks for your likes, another quick update.

 

I did some more work on the chainplates and dead eyes. All six chain plates are ready,  I re did the first two as I was not happy with the soldering.

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I made a deadeye and used some scrap brass to test the scale of the assembly. It looks ok bearing in mind I am after a bit of a dramatic effect!

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Cutting thin strips of brass was a bit challenging. I used the knife and then finish with the scissors. The strips came out curled and with sharp edges.

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They had to be sanded and then annealed so I brought the big boy out. Heating to red hot immediately straightened the strips quite a lot but also made them very soft. The big boy needs care as it can easily melt the brass.

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So with all the components in place, the assembly started.

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I want the part to be functional and move. The plan was to use a 2 mm tube through the 3 mm tube that is attached to the chainplate and a piece of 1 mm wire as axle. It worked...kind off.

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The upper connection in this first attempt was a 2 mm tube and the lower one a 3 mm tube, with a piece of 2 mm in it so that there would be no play with the 1 mm axle. This looked wrong. Also, I secured the wire by crushing the ends but I did not like this either. I looked into my inventory of random things and found some 1.2 mm bolts and nuts. I made the part again and this time it looks much better, still needs the bolt to be trimmed, the deadeye eyes to be drilled, the wood to be oiled and the brass polished. Both tubes are now 3 mm (with a 2 mm tube inside, drilled through to accept the 1.2 mm bolt)

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I think it will be fine but it needs a lot of work. It is difficult enough to cut such small pieces of tube and also not easy to free-hand drill though to accept the bolt. It takes a lot of time to make each deadeye but at least I have standardised a process that works.

In the next photo, all components awaiting assembly. This is actually a nice and fun part of the build. 

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At some point I will need to start making the very many cleats, blocks and shackles and also to bring out my rope walk as I expect I will need a lot of rope. I still need to make the gaff and the boom and both will be pretty complex to make. Still a long way from finishing!

 

Vaddoc

 

Edited by vaddoc

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Thank you all for your comments and likes!

 

I started thinking about rope sizes and I realised that the deadeyes are very large. They need to be proportionate to the ropes they will carry so I decided to reduce the diameter. Also, I made the brass hoops again using this time 0.7 mm brass instead of 0.4 that I had used initially.  I think it looks better, more to scale.

 

I polished the brass an then applied Renaissance wax. I could not find my Loctite so I used again the wax to secure the nuts to the bolts. Some of the deadeyes are a bit loose so I will apply some wax to the wood, from previous experience it might lock them in place.

 

All the new parts ready for assembly, everything put together but still need to drill the holes to the chainplates

 

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I think it looks fine

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I am a bit undecided whether to use rope for the shrouds or wire rope. There are advantages to the latter, less work and most importantly the standing rigging will not stretch over time. This is important as the mast with all the spars etc will be quite heavy and will be held in place exclusively by the shrouds and stays. The tabernacle absolutely cannot support the mast, there is too much leverage. The boat will still maintain its traditional appearance. Otherwise I ll try again to make an acceptable rope using synthetic threads. My experience with these so far is not great but I know that cotton rope will stretch and stretch even if I try to pre-stretch it, over spin it etc.

 

Regards

Vaddoc

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Hi Vaddoc

you could still have the deadeyes as well as wire shrouds, if that's what you're considering - a large thimble or matching deadeye at the lower end of the wire, but others will know more about traditional rigging. It's practical to have wire shrouds tied off to the chainplates with rope, & having a tabernacle suggests that the owner needs to raise/lower the mast, & with rope tails it'd be by hand rather than needing tools, so a bit simpler. Rope isn't likely as shrouds for this boat.... but you seem to be enjoying the fantasy of this build, so there's no real reason you have to do it by the book.

 

 

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Mark, I think you are spot on, indeed it make sense to actually have deadeyes due to the tabernacle but also nowadays in most instances there would be wire rope for the shrouds. However, this could be served and actually a search on the net showed that served wire rope shrouds are commonly used. So this is what I ll do!

 

There has been some more progress but really disconnected.

 

In regards to shrouds, I have 0.45 mm and 1 mm wire rope and I think that 0.65 mm would be a good compromise. I ve ordered some beadalone wire rope which is fantastic, encased in a plastic sheath and very flexible. A bit of experiment showed it responds very well to serving and will happily go round the deadeye

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I thought of using something to imitate tar and I used some black gesso I had. It worked beautifully but any handling of the rope later on brings on fuziness and dulls the black colour to grey. Much later it occurred to me to use black thread...

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I then cleaned the garage and changed sanding paper and work surface on my home made disc sander

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Then it was cleat time! I will need quite a few and although I ve standardised the process, it still takes a long time. They came out fine though. I ve decided to use 1 mm micro screws to secure them instead of tree nails so they are drilled through (1.1 mm) and then counter drilled to 1.8 mm. 

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I also made a serving machine but I did not like it. I ve ordered some bearings and plastic cogs, I think I can make it work. Three pairs of shrouds plus two forestays plus two backstays mean about 6 m of wire rope to serve, possibly more!

 

Vaddoc

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Nice looking cleats! Dark brown thread would, in my opinion, look better than black on the model. (It is the color of Stockholm or pine tar used for marine work, not coal tar).

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On 5/12/2019 at 7:45 PM, vaddoc said:

There are advantages to the latter, less work and most importantly the standing rigging will not stretch over time.

Vaddoc - just a cautionary note. I use beading wire but invariably find I end up redoing some shrouds when they go slack. I think the slackening is associated with the wood of the hull and masts contracting a little when exposed to the dry environment of the lounge. You may want to aclimatise the model before embarking on rigging.

 

Very nice job on the cleats. Your process for making them would be interesting to know if you have time.

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Dear all, I would be most happy to share my method to make cleats, \i think this weekend I might find some time.

 

In the mean time could I present the world's ugliest serving machine, mine!

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I used an amazing variety of scrap material that I had lying around in the garage. It was actually much more difficult than I thought. I bought some flanged bearings and some plastic cogs. It took a couple of days and quite a lot of head scratching but surprisingly is solidly built and even more of a surprise, it works!

 

 

I did a test run with some scrap rope and it worked beautifully, a length of more than 30 cm was served in no time. Some minor modifications and improvements are needed and there is a bit of a learning curve I think

 

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I must say though that if I was on the other side of the pond I would just buy Chuck's machine, slightly higher cost but much less hassle.

 

Edited by vaddoc

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Hi Vaddoc

 

It’s always a real treat to catch up on your work.  The cleats, chainplates and hand made ropes look really nice.

 

You’re definitely on the home stretch now.

 

Well done.

 

Cheers

 

Patrick

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Many thanks to all for your good words, I am very grateful.

I thought it would be best to make a new thread on making cleats. Please find the link bellow. The cleat template is attached there.

 

 

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It's bank holiday weekend in UK and I did a bit more work. Actually, I think I passed another small milestone.

 

I need to start finalising the rigging plan and this weekend I focused on the headsails. I opened my books and did quite a lot of internet search to see how this would work and I decided to go for a staysail, a flying jib and a jib topsail. Indeed this seems to be the original sail plan. The deck will be a very cramped place I suspect!

 

I drilled a slot and installed a sheave for the traveller. I also applied sanding sealer and sanded the bowsprit to 400 grit

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I also sanded and sealed the spreaders, and drilled a through hole. Actually I had to make again one of the spreaders as the shape was wrong. I used the very last suitable beech offcut.

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I then made the connector for the bob stay chain. I managed to find my loctite and I ll use it for final assembly, so the screws will not loosen over time.

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Then it was time for the major task of the day, to secure the samson post to the deck. It cannot be glued and I want it to be secure.

I actually made the post again as I was not too happy with the previous one. I then drilled 2 mm holes to the base of the post to insert pieces of toothpicks which would slot into corresponding holes on the deck. I used some red paint to know were to drill on the deck.

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I think they call this a leap of faith...no turning back now. I drilled the holes on the deck.

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Well, Luck was on my side!

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The final task for the day was to attempt the leather sheath of the traveller. It seemed easier to stitch over a straight rod and then bend to a round shape. I made something like a jig and stitched over the rod using the proper 2 needle technique. I think it looks OK.

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I do not intend to solder the loop, I ll just slide the sheath so that the gap is hidden.

 

Very soon I ll need to start making the myriad of blocks that will be needed. I have many sheaves and I would like the blocks to be functional. A mill would be very useful, too bad I do not own one. 

 

Regards

Vaddoc

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A day with many disasters today, thankfully I was able to fix things.

 

I first did a second attempt with the traveller, this time using 1.2 mm wire instead of 2 mm rod. Clearly it was more to scale but also my stitching was better.

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Then I bent some wire to shape and passed it into the leather sheath. Then I turned it around so the ends of the wire would be at 6 oclock, first passing through the hook and the loop. The wire is not soldered, just the edges brought into contact. It came out fine I think.

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I ve decided not to blacken any metal parts, I ll just leave everything brass coloured. I actually quite like it.

 

Then the disasters start striking.

I glued the sampson post in place and before that I had nailed the bowsprit to the post. Then, I started gluing the gammon iron with CA glue but while I was half way, having installed two nails already, it suddenly fell apart. The soldering had failed.

 

I managed to take the nails out and then, thankfully I was able to remove the sampson post simply because I had forgotten to glue the toothpicks to the deck!

I made the gammon iron again and then I tried to install again everything on the boat. Oh dear! The bowsprit was way off to port, really very much out of alignment. I had messed up drilling the holes on the deck. The next photos show how wrong the holes were and since the bowsprit is really long, the error was multiplied.

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I drilled new holes, this time correctly and then glued everything in place. One of the wrong holes was covered and out of sight but the other one was very much visible. The solution was easy enough, I just put a toothpick in, cut the excess and put a drop of paint on. The repair has pretty much disappeared, it is much less visible than in the close up photos

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Then I put on the traveller and the cranse iron. The bow slowly starts coming alive. And the bowsprit pointss dead ahead!

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Really the repair has almost vanished

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I hope the standing rigging will actually hold, although it is a static model due to the scale there will be some forces applied to the parts. The bob and whisker stays will really need to do some work to keep the end of the bowsprit from wandering.

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On 5/25/2019 at 3:12 PM, vaddoc said:

I thought it would be best to make a new thread on making cleats

Vaddock - Thank you. Their uniformity made me think you might have done something more complex. As ever on this site just a case of care attention and craftsmanship.

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