Best Practices for Copper Plating the Hull taking into Consideration Scale and Overall Artistic Presentation of the Ship

[Gabek]

Great topic...and one I am going to address on my Triton cross-section. At 1/96 scale I am not even going to attempt a nail pattern! I am using a book and photos of HMS Trincomalee a lot as reference. Here's a decent shot of the copper showing different colours and the visibility of the nails.

 

Clear skies,

Gabe

[John Allen]

That's exactly what a bottom should look like. 

[druxey]

I believe that the green band is seen only 'twixt wind and water' and would be scoured bright at the bow from water and debris flow. Trincomalee is static, so you don't see the scouring.

[dafi]

That is what I meant earlier: Apparently the copper tells, what the ship did last :-)

 

In our german forum there is a nice collection of pictures all of different shades in colo of the copperr.

 

There is a nice article in German from Peter Prystaz of Swiss minisail that could explain:

http://minisail.ch/de/werkkunde/kupfern.pdf

"5. Patina:  (rough translation) As there are almost no more sea going coppered ships on regular trips, one started to imagining the appearance more than knowing it.

Mostly it is displayed blank or green, which is wrong. If a ship is sea going the copper becomes pink. Yes, pink! The pinkish color is coming of the abrasion of the water molecules, the green only comes on the air. New copper is of shiny brownish color. If in drydock like the Cutty, it gets darker. If the ship is in saltwater but not moved it gets green [as seen on the Constitution]. If the ship was in harbour for longer, first the waterline gets pink the bottom last. So the color of the copper can accentuate the story of the model."

 

One more remark: There are some very nice pictures of recent copperings with highly glossy plates. I do think, this does not translate into the old days, as todays copper for sure has some kind of surface treating. Original copper plates that arrived in the shipyard for sure did not have this and also had enough time to "season".

 

[That also applies for the wood: It usually had enough time to season while being build, so there where never those like "fresh" cut wood looking ships ;-) ]

 

That lead to some trials on the color - all 1:100, the nails still a bit strong as those were the first tests. 

 

Copper not too old, the bottom brown from lying in port, pink on the waterline and green above ...

 

 

... sailing the brown getting less andgetting pinkish ...

 

 

... and the brown gone and mostely pink.

 

 

Here the last two tests to compare.

 

 

On the bottom there are always some blank copper plates as reference :-)

 

Cheers, Daniel

Edited January 20, 2017 by dafi

[RichardG]

Although I definitely like (try) to be accurate if I can, pink is too much 

[dafi]

Ok, sorry, the next setback to old-fashioned modeler´s customs after the new colors of the Vic ;-)

 

XXXDAMn

Edited January 21, 2017 by dafi

[roach101761]

All

 

I have reviewed the replies and will recap here.

 

 

1.     1/64 and smaller may not require the nail pattern, no matter the size of the model.  Although some do try it.

 

2.     Copper plates made from copper tape applied over a varnished hull work very well.

 

3.     The problem with the nail pattern is it will be nearly impossible to replicate it to scale. It will appear bumpy and too busy.

 

4.     This applies to the thickness of the plate as well.  Some suggested gold leaf type of products and thinner stuff than copper tape.

 

5.     Making a nail pattern stamp to indent the copper plate seems to be the preferred way to create the nail pattern.  However dress maker's wheel was used by one and ponce wheels I know will do the trick as well. 

 

6.     Shiny copper is not authentic and neither is copper of all one color from keel to water line.  In actual ships there will be a color variation.  Some sort of green, not copper will be required to make it authentic.

 

7.     Chemical treatments are necessary to change the color of the plates.  The first suggestion was salt and vinegar.  However there are links for how to achieve different colors in post number 19 above.  There was a discussion of using vinegar on copper

 

8.      Urine was used by at least one of our group to achieve a brownish type of color.  It was applied after the copper was on the model.

 

9.     Nearly the last contribution was posted and translated from a German source who advised that as the copper ages it actually goes pink in parts.

 

I will continue to edit this post at the suggestion of contributors.  I have not had the time to search MSW for build logs to copy some of the posts here.   I may in the future.  

 

Phil    

Edited January 22, 2017 by roach101761

[lehmann]

From the CD of data and drawings of the USS Constitution (available from http://store.ussconstitutionmuseum.org/collections/books-models-modeling).

 

Plate size:                         14 inch x 48 inch

Number of plates:              3400, in 28 rows

Number of nails per plate: 120 to 150

Weight each plate:             6 lbs   

Thickness, based on density of 0.324 lb/in³ = 0.0276 inches

 

At a scale of 1:48, the model plate thickness "should" be 0.00057 inch.  

 

The thinnest copper sheet I've been able to find is 0.002 inch.  

 

I'm working at 1:96 scale, so my main conclusion is that overlapping the plates will create too large of a step ( , so I intend to cut the plates narrower and shorter by the amount of overlap and just place them side-by-side.  This is probably why the strip method works so well.   I was also thinking of cutting a shallow rebate in the planking so the step at the top of the coppering is not so noticeable, but then I realized that the thickness of the top-sides paint is probably thick enough to hide the step.

[RichardG]

The copper tape I have does seem to be around 0.002 in. According to the USS Constitution the thickest plates would have been 28oz per sq. ft. See https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/2015/08/12/copperbottomed/. This is then an 8lb plate. At 1/48 scale this would have been 0.00077.

 

Well I'm working at 1/50th which is a bit better but the tape is still between 2.7 and 3.5 times too thick. Now even if I could get tape thin enough, I don't think it would be usable. Plus to be strictly accurate, I'd need 3 different thicknesses (28/26/22 oz). 

 

So basically I'm not going to worry about it . 

 

I'm not sure what to do about an overlap though. Yes, it's out of scale but to the naked eye it didn't really look that way (at least to me) when I stuck a couple of sample pieces to a plank. I will not be able to get a 100% accurate 1in overlap but if I don't overlap, can I avoid a small gap between each strip? Since I'm using strips there will be no overlap at the vertical joints (this will need to be an indent from the jig).

 

So I'll have to experiment. I'm currently work on a nailing jig. Once that's done (and if it works), I'll create some test strips and see if I can actually apply them. 

 

I have to say, nothing in this hobby is simple. One thing that did surprise me was how thin these plates are in real life - less than a millimeter.

 

Richard

[dafi]

If one does overlaps with that thin material one will get a step into it. So better to skip the underneath part.

 

XXXDAn

[Beef Wellington]

This is great thread, something I have done a lot of thought and analysis into as well.  One correction to #9 above though, copper is naturally pinkish and it is this colour that is seen when newly shined or subject to repeated abrasion.  Copper gradually 'browns' when weathered naturally but it can develop a greenish patina in certain environments especially when constantly wet in salt water environment betwixt wind and water.  I think Dafi's first picture above is a perfect illustration of this.

 

Other thought on this subject is that it is once again in the eye of the beholder.  Scaling down seems to be as much an art as a science so its probably not worth while obsessing over the nails.  Good example is paint colour, it seem back looks too 'black' when scaled , so people often use a very dark gray.  Glossy paint is much more distracting at smaller scale so people tend us a matte or a satin when a semi-gloss may have been used in practice.

 

  

[wefalck]

One cannot argue about tastes ... and colour, but I would describe the colour dafi was referring to rather as 'salmon' (ok, there are different ways of preparing salmon and hence different colours ...) than as 'pink'. Perhaps 'salmon' is more palatable than 'pink'.

[dafi]

Perhaps Nelson and Hardy wanted to match the copper´s color on the ships side as it is suggested by the latest research *duckandcover*

 

XXXDAn

Edited January 28, 2017 by dafi

[roach101761]

These pictures are of the Revenue Cutter Taney at 1/8th scale. The model is by Charles Gravallese. I will post more detail on the process later.   He manufactured each copper plate from sheet copper.  Prior to cutting strips to make the plates  he heat treated the copper sheet.  That is how he obtained the variegated color.

 

 

 

[roach101761]

This is the process of making the heat treated plates for the Taney by Charles Gravallese.

 

 

 

                                                             SHOP 03

 

COPPER PLATING

 

The process begins with copper foil sheets 2 or 3 /1000" thick. To make realistic looking plates, the shiny uniformity of the copper must be destroyed. Holding the sheet with pliers, pass it through the flame of a gas torch and you will see that the copper begins to discolor. The longer you hold it there, the greater the discoloration. You will also see that it takes on a variety of other colors in random patterns. Work on only a small portion of the copper sheet at one time. After passing it through the flame, plunge it into a bath of cold water; this will add coloration. Don't worry about small droplets of water that may be on the surface of the plate when you put it back through the flame, they also add to the effect. Continue this process of heating and cooling until the entire sheet has been treated and it looks real ugly; that's when it’s done and ready for cutting. Before beginning the cutting operation, the copper sheets must be flattened and all wrinkles smoothed out. For smoothing, and strip prior to cutting I like to work on a clean flat surface like a green cutting pad. Smoothing is achieved by simply burnishing down the sheets with a piece of balsa wood.

 

Along one edge of the sheet, gently tick off a series of marks to indicate the width of each plate as determined from the plans, (copper plates were normally about 2’ x 4’so you will have work calculate the model size based on the scale of the model. If the model is 1/8” to the foot, plates should be 1/4” X 1/2”. Repeat this same series of tick marks along the opposite edge of the sheet. To cut strips to the width of the plates, lay a straight edge on top of the copper sheet, connecting tick marks at each end. While firmly holding down the straight edge with one hand, draw the razor along the straight edge producing a cleanly cut strip. Repeat this process until all the strips have been cut. Upon examination of the strips you will notice that the cutting may have left a slight burr on the bottom edge of each one. These burrs should be flattened out before going on to slice them into plates. Burnishing gently with the balsa wood does the job.

 

Next, the strips are cut into individual plates. Begin with a piece of 3/4" plywood 10" long by 3" wide as a work surface. This plywood should be flat and very straight along its top edge. Two or three inches in from the far right hand corner drop a sharp pencil line perpendicular to the top edge. Then draw a second perpendicular parallel to the first line and 1/2" to the left of it. (If you are left handed, these steps can easily be applied to work as well from the upper left hand corner of the plywood.) Place a small 4" adjustable square on the top edge of the plywood so that the leg of the square lies on top of the second perpendicular line leaving the first, right‑most line still visible. Take a strip of copper material and slip it under the square, making sure that:

     1. The square is snug against the top of the board.

     2. The copper strip is snug against base of the square at

            the top of the board.        

     3. The copper strip extends beyond the leg of the square and

            just touches the right‑most pencil line.

Then it’s just a matter of pressing down on the square enough to keep the copper strip still while slicing off a plate with a single edge razor. Because the plates were sliced off while lying on a relatively soft surface, there is another burr to eliminate. Actually two burrs, one at each end of each plate. I did this working on top of a piece of plate glass. Using my balsa wood burnisher, I flattened out each and every plate.

 

The bottom of the hull must be prepared and by this time you must also have decided on the arrangement of strakes and belts. The hull should be clean and sanded smooth with the water line already marked off. I did not use any sanding sealer in the are where the plates are to be placed. If you haven't already, devise a way to mount the hull upside down in your vice so that you will have two hands free to work on plating. This technique, by the way, can work just as well on planked hulls as it does on solid hulls.

 

Take a dozen or so plates and drop them in small bottle of acetone. Close the bottle and set them aside for a while. The acetone will help clean up any residue on the plates. My preference for contact cement is solvent based and not water based. I have never had good experiences with water based contact cement. The contact cement must be thinned in small batches using a small glass bottle. In a clean 1 or 2 ounce glass bottle, pour a little bit of the contact cement. Add thinner to this a little at a time stirring until the cement is creamy and no longer stringy when you remove the mixing stick. With a disposable #1 paint brush, lay a thin coat of cement over the entire sternpost and keel, but not up the stem post. The stem will be coated later. In one of my earlier experiments I tried using un-thinned contact cement but this resulted in a globby surface which showed up as bumps in the plates after they were pressed into place. From time to time as work progresses, you will want to discard the cement in the mixing bottle, clean the bottle with thinner, and mix up a fresh batch of cement. While waiting for the first coat of cement to dry, remove the plates from the bottle of acetone and pat them dry with paper toweling. At this time you should drop another bunch of plates into the bottle of acetone and close it up. Take a piece of two sided tape about 6" long and press it down onto a scrap of basswood about 8" long and 1" x 1" square. Press the tape down firmly, rubbing your fingers across it until most of the stickiness is gone and the surface feels only slightly tacky. Gently press each cleaned plate to the edge of the tape strip so that half the plate is on the tape and half is extending over the edge. Using the low cost brushes, apply a thinned coat of contact cement to each plate. If the cement is properly thinned, it should flow right on, no dragging and no globs. At this time apply a second coat of cement to the sternpost and keel.

 

After about 5- 10 minutes, the first coat of cement on the plates should be dry and the second coat can be applied. Allow this to dry another five minutes. Very gently remove a plate from the adhesive strip. The cement should not stick to your fingers, if it does, you have not allowed enough drying time. Beginning at the very end of the keel, carefully eyeball the plate over the bottom of the keel so that the keel passes as closely as possible through the center of the plate lengthwise. Before touching the plate to the keel, make sure that you are leaving about half of it to overhang the after part of the keel, over the sternpost. Slowly lower the plate being careful to keep it centered over the keel. I found that when first setting a plate in place it should be set down ever so gently so that the contact cement does not grab fast. This way, you will still be able to make positioning adjustments after the plate is on the surface. When satisfied with its alignment press down on top of the plate to secure it. Then carefully form a clean bend in the plate over the heel of the keel, up the sternpost. Using a single edge razor, cut along the bend in the plate, back to the keel ‑ sternpost junction. Now bend the resulting vertical flaps which overhang the sternpost, into position toward the bow. Apply a small dab of contact cement to the face of these flaps, and then press down on the horizontal flaps which overhang the keel. Note: I use a very fine jewelers tweezers to handle individual plates.

 

Apply a small dab of cement on the top of the forward end of the corner plate you just installed. Let this set up for a few minutes and then take another plate from the adhesive strip and follow the same alignment procedure in positioning it over the keel making sure that the after end of the new plate overlaps the forward end of the plate already attached by about 1/32". Press the plate into place on the upper surface of the keel and then firmly bend the side flaps downward so that they form a neat 90 degree angle around the edge of the keel. Continue this process up to the place on the keel where the stem post begins to turn up toward the water line. Return to the sternpost and lay the next strake which will slightly overlap the previous strake also by about 1/32”. Begin by applying a coat or two of thinned contact cement to the area of the previous strake which will be overlapped by the new strake. Allow this to dry for a few minutes. Don't forget to keep extending the cement coated area up the sides of the hull a little at a time as you go along from one strake to the next. I used masking tape to keep the cement area to just one strake width. I suggest coating only a small area of the hull at one time because at the end of each plating session you will want to remove the cement from those parts of the hull which have not yet been plated.

 

Center a plate over the backside of the sternpost and press it into place. carefully wrap it around the post toward the bow. Now you can proceed to lay on the second strake of plates from stern to bow, aligning them so that short vertical seems are offset and fall on the middle of the plate in the strake you are overlapping. In other words, the applied plates should begin to resemble a brick wall. Repeat this process for both the port and starboard sides before proceeding to the next strake.

 

Before laying on the third strake and for all following strakes, a little measuring is required to ensure that each strake is even as you proceed up the sides of the hull. Beginning at the stern, from the top edge of a plate, tick off a mark at 7/32" onto the bare wood of the hull. Make a series of these tick marks from stern to bow, the more, the better. Then connect them with a flexible batten and draw a light pencil line through the dots. Make sure the area between the last row of plates and this line is covered with contact cement and you can now apply the third and all subsequent strakes. In positioning a plate, align it so that the long horizontal edge is right on the pencil line you drew, and the short vertical edge overlaps its neighboring plate to the rear. Eyeball each strake when completed to make sure rows are progressing equally up each side of the hull. As each strake comes to its termination point in the bow area, bring the plates right up to the stem post, then cover the exposed forward ends with one plate by wrapping it around the stem post. Never go ahead any rows when working up the stem post; remember, all the vertical overlaps must be toward the stern.

 

When cleaning up unused or old cement from the surface of the bare hull or the plated surface, use a compatible thinner, not acetone. Allow a few days drying time before cleaning excess glue. Acetone will break down the cement along the edges of the plates, and thus the weakened plate edges will be more easily ripped up at corners and edges. When you make a mistake in placing a plate, don't try to salvage it. Throw it away, repair the damaged cement area with a cotton swab dipped in thinner, apply new cement, and put down another plate. In order to reduce the number of gluing brushes used, in between coats I rinsed and stored my brushes in a bottle of thinner.

 

                                        TOOLS AND MATERIALS

 

 

 

     2 or 3 /1000" copper sheet 6" x 12"    cotton swabs            

     inexpensive #1 brushes                 balsa burnishing sticks  

     1 and 2 oz. mixing bottles             two faced tape           

     mixing sticks                          paper towels & rags      

     acetone                                single edge razors       

     contact cement & thinner               small adj. square                                          

 

 

 

[wefalck]

Actually, if you look at a real ship, there are only subtle variations from plate to plate, if any. Exposure to seawater tends to level out any original variations in the state of oxidation (which due to the fairly uniform and industrialised production process, even in the 18th century, would have not been considerable). So I don't quite understand what the purpose of this rag-rug appearance is. One should also keep in mind that oxidation colours that result from contact with ambient air are different from the colour that develops under water and at the water-air interface. The presence of sulfates and organic substances in seawater are mainly responsible for this.

 

Rather than using an open flame for achieving oxidation colours, I would use a hot-air soldering-gun, where you can pre-set the temperature of the air-stream and thus have much better control over the process.

[roach101761]

To the Naysayers 

 

These two  photos belong to the New Bedford Whaling museum.   If you have never been I can tell you that it is an excellent museum and it is world class.  You all should go, you will thank me later. 

 

These two pictures are of the Ship James Arnold being hove down to receive its copper plating.   I found these photo's in the NRG's Shop Notes II, Chapter 13, Coppering.   I went to the Museum web site and transferred them to here.   The following are the excerpts are from shop notes II.

 

"Ship James Arnold.  Here the starboard bottom has been completely sheathed with felt and wood, and the coppering gang has begun to metal the keel.  Like the courses of copper whose widths are uniform, the run of the sheathing boards is suited to economy, rather than looks. They are fitted with a minimum of tapering and there is an un-nibbed stealer six planks up the the stem."

 

 

 

 

"Ship James Arnold.  This view is a sequel to the preceding photograph.  The upper belt is complete, save for the plates which will finish the cutwater. The lower edge of the bottom course of the upper belt has not been nailed down; the gore ends of the lower belt must be fitted underneath prior to fastening. The rudder, lying on the work float at the keel, is finished and new load marks of sheet lead have been nailed to its trailing edge. The new copper plates, with varying amounts of surface oxidation  show a patchwork of tones which must have been striking."

 

 

The author of the article is  Erik A. R. Ronneberg Jr.

 

It would seem that the variegated color scheme produced by the heat treatment I posted above is within the realm of possibilities.

[wefalck]

Excellent pictures !

[JerseyCity Frankie]

As I suspected, Copper Leaf is an available product. I was at local art supply stores in NYC yesterday and next to the E-Z gold leaf kits I found theses. If you're unfamiliar Gold Leaf is real gold pounded so flat that the 5"square sheets,which come in a deck interleaved with paper, can blow away on a puff of breath and have no internal resiliency. It's the piece of paper it rests on that you can hold in your hand and when it comes time to apply it to a prepared surface the user has to float the leaf off the paper and onto the surface on a puff of air or on the bristles of a paint brush. It's an ancient art form and most gold on antique frames and furniture is gold leaf. The E-Z kits are a dumbed down "do it yourself" product intended for the hobbyist, the REAL gold leaf is kept behind the counter.

But reading the package I see that the Copper Leaf IS real copper ( in fact the E-Z"gold"leaf is copper too!) and the two products I found each had twenty paper backed sheets and were priced under $20US.

I'm CERTAIN anyone who tried applying this stuff would be facing a steep learning curve. There would be a LOT of surface prep involved. But on the other hand, for the literalist that HAS to have real copper, I think THIS is the thinnest copper you can get.

[roach101761]

After the above post I went looking on line for copper and other metal products.  I was was looking for a gauge or thickness chart for copper.   I have not found one to my liking yet, however the are readily available on line.   When I find the right one, I will post it here, or ask the administrators to put it the pdf files.  I will look there also.    I looked a few web sites that this deserves a look.  Lost of neat stuff.  They also make patina solutions in green, blue and antique brown.

 

 

http://basiccopper.com/?gclid=COiu9P_X9tECFQYGhgodUscLsQ

[husky1943]

Howdy all,

 

I have a question for the brains around here; would the copper sheathing go over the hinges?  The reason why I ask is because I have seen both styles (hinges covered by sheathing and hinges not covered by sheathing).  In thinking about it, I think that the hinges would not be covered because that would cause galvanic action.  Thoughts?

 

Ciao for now

 

[wefalck]

Anything that is less 'noble' in galvanic terms than copper would be eaten away. This is way all fittings exposed to the seawater and in contact with the sheathing would need to be either copper or bronze. So pintles and gudegeons would need to be made from bronze, rather than iron.

[husky1943]

Howdy wefalck,

 

Thanks.  That makes absolute sense.  Sorry about the "hinges" thing.  I don't know the nomenclature like I should. 

 

Ciao for now

[Pete Jaquith]

Phil,

 

The following pictures illustrate copper sheathing applied on my Brigantine "Newsboy" 1854 in 3/16" (1:64) scale.  Copper sheathing was applied using Bluejacket self adhesive copper tape cut into individual 1/4" x 3/4" plates using a simple card cutter.  I did not emboss a nail pattern due to the scale.  Blue masking tape strips were used as an application guide.

 

Regards,

Pete

[rwiederrich]

I simply build a roller gig and embossed copper tape then applied and painted with a brown metallic paint and then dull coated.

To mimic the old plates on the Cutty Sark.

Images show the effect I was looking for.

 

[rwiederrich]

Thanks for the likes everyone...I tried to take a complicated process/application and make it fast and easy.

 

Rob