Prince de Neufchatel by Heronguy - Model Shipways - Scale 1:64

[jbshan]

There you go!  Nice shapes on that blocking.

Before you get there, I used the plywood bulwarks to mark out on the hull for port locations then threw the (put into the scraps box) plywood.

I inherited this model as the basic 'egg crate' with plans sheets so have had to mostly do it off the cuff.  Note I have installed stiffener blocks, sheer piece, both for stability, blocking outlining the gun and oar ports, and blocking where the shrouds will be pinned.  This will be in the thickness of the hull, covered both sides with the outer and inner planking.  I also removed the plywood under deck and will use stripwood of the proper thickness for the deck.  The bulkheads are close enough together not to need the sub deck, which is pretty thin in any event.

The knee of the head and cutwater was not well done, and the bow blocks were too small, so I redid the stem with several pieces (which don't show well here) and you can see the hawse pieces I added to pad out the bows of the hull.  It seemed easier to use the correct forms to get to the final result rather than make up some other system myself.

Nirvana, you're pretty quick with the 'like'.  Try it with the pic I intended to send with the text.

[Heronguy]

Joel,

 

You've given me lots to think about with your post and picture.  Although I'm new at this modelling business I'm already considering leaving the instructions and kit pieces when I see the solutions that others (you in this case) have developed.  I'm pretty sure I'll get into trouble either way!  

 

I have the Syren kit waiting and in the meantime I've been reading then build instructions as i follow along the on build logs.  This framing of the gun and oar ports as you've done and the Syren instructions propose does seem like the way to go both to strengthen the bulkheads as well as to avoid some of the difficulties I read other have had with the bulwark plywood.  The risk I guess will be doing a good job of measuring to properly locate the ports.  

 

As as I said - stuff to think about!  Thanks.  Ps I reviewed your lexington log - helpful.

[jbshan]

6 minutes ago, Heronguy said:

Joel,

 

You've given me lots to think about with your post and picture....Ps I reviewed your lexington log - helpful.

That why I put it there. 

I'm not doing a traditional 'build log' since I have so many things going on (4 at last count), but I hope to be able to use it to post things that can help others over humps and bumps along the way.

One other hint, not in any way related to where you are at on your model.  I've seen a lot recently on how to steam or soak or otherwise prepare plank for bending.  Try saliva.  It's a naturally occurring solvent that penetrates the wood fibers and allows them to bend more easily.  I've used it on two models so far.  Just don't use the technique on ebony, the wood made by the devil.

[Tigersteve]

It's coming along nicely.

Steve

[Heronguy]

I've been slowly fairing the bulkheads although many have needed shims and that implies that the inboard edges of the bulkheads also don't align well as shown in the next two photos 

 

Worried about how likely I am to break off these fragile bulkhead extensions I decided to add a balsa fill between all the bulkheads.  We'll see if this turns out to be useful but even if not, the balsa is very easy sand down or to remove entirely.  I expect quite a bit more time working on the hull before I start planking.  No hurry.

 

 

 

 

[Heronguy]

The balsa support rails were a fine idea.  I was able to handle the model without the constant worry of snapping more extensions.  I'll use this trick again!

 

Despite the warnings about the plywood bulwark pieces and the problems they caused on other builds, I decided to try them out for myself. I installed the 1st strake - deck level - which defines the bottom of the bulwark.  

Clamping the starboard bulwark and carefully (but not quite carefully enough dear reader) I marked the plywood for trimming.

 

 

The goof was at the bow where I trimmed way too much.

 

The cute a small wedge to cover most of the gap.  It will be covered later with planking.  However getting the plywood firmly glued at the bow did require several attempts.  I decided to install (temporarily) a balsa filler block at the bow.  I shaped it to provide support for the glueing of the plywood to the hull.

 

I proceeded more carefully with the port side. (nothing like trying to avoid the same mistake twice  - you can always make new mistakes  )

 

 

Then on to the transom.  Another challenge finding how to clamp the transom for long enough to have the glue set. 

 

Finally ended up with some tape that holds it well enough.

Took out all the balsa supports.

So here's the results to date:

 

 

 

One small problem that came with the kit I think is a small overlap between the last gun port and oar port and the bulkhead extensions.  I don't think it will present any real difficulties.

 

 

 

Slightly more troubling problem, and one I haven't resolved yet, is getting the bow bulwarks properly installed. It looks like too wide a gap.  I wish there were more info on the plans so I could get the bow correct on some build (I've been stymied on all my builds so far! - can't figure it out yet!)

 

 

 

K

 

 

[Heronguy]

I've started the the hull planking.  The printed instructions for the build offer an easy way out:

 

However I'll try to improve my planking skills and plank as iff it is only going to be single-planked.  

 

 

I'm keen to find out how well the swiss pear handles so I will use it for this hull.  Wish me luck!

 

[jbshan]

They seem to have left out some helpful things, like some sort of framing aft for the end of the bulwarks and transom and something to help you get that bow right.  (Remember, I didn't use the plywood, I framed things up individually.)  I inserted framing pieces into the stern block around the ports in the transom and for the 'fashion pieces' at the corners and ran my inside the top timbers piece back to that.  At the bow, I had to pad out the whole block area, and I extended the padding up to the rail.  I'm not sure if it would have helped you with the ply, but I have an s-shaped section just below the rail at the bow, giving them a slight flare.

I seem to recall also having egregiously uneven top timbers (bulwark extensions).  I had to sand back and pad them to get a smooth curve.  Just look along the line of the ply and you can see if it wobbles in and out.  That last port you'll just have to sand things back to match the port opening.  I didn't wind up with that problem, I don't know why.  Perhaps by not using the ply I made a mistake there and it actually helped me instead of my usual mistake that hurts.

[Heronguy]

Thanks Joel - sorry for the long interval before responding.

 

I've moved on with planking and am carefully ignoring the problem of how to tie the planked hull to the transom.  I'm not very skilled at visualizing in 3D what the end result will be (bad pun).

 

Still a long way to go on the planking.  I cut some more pear strips yesterday - enough to finish the hull. 

I experimented with cutting wider strips (twice a s wide) to use for the garboard strake and the one above it.  However I don't know how to shape it for this hull.  When you look at planking references like Jim Roberts's it gives an (exaggerated) typical shape for the garboard strake - It doesn't make sense to me on this model.  Also I'm unsure how far forward toward the bow the garboard strake should go.  

 

Since there was no suggestion in the kit instructions for forming a rabbet I started without one.  Early on though I decided to attache strip along the bulkhead former - as it appears to be done on the Syren kit.  That has helped a bit.

 

 

 

[Steve 12345]

Regarding your garboard plank Doug I'm thinking round about that second pin from the bow ,how many planks at midship to close the planking in ? Remember at the bow no plank should be tapperred to less than half take the amount of full planks at midship required and translate that to half planks at the bow and see where that lands .im guessing round about that second pin ,just a suggestion mark it out see what you think 

[Heronguy]

Hi Steve,

 

Here was my 1st try at a garboard strake.  Its ok a the stern - adds some width.  At the bow it would of course be twisted and bent a bit to lie well against the bulkheads.  Its obviously too pointy right now but if I leave it like that then it almost surely requires a stealer at the bow to finish smoothly

There is no problem with the bow planks becoming too narrow as I have lots of bow space for the remaining 12 or 13  planks.

 

Is your suggestion of the 2nd pin the one that is on the flat part of the keel - 3rd bulkhead?  or that one on the curved part of the bow?

[Steve 12345]

I'm thinking 3rd bulkhead Doug including the one right up against the filler block allow I'm no expert that is how I would approach it 

[Heronguy]

thanks Steve!

[Heronguy]

Steve,

 

I thought I'd share with you my latest "success"  Remember the garboard strake I was complaining about?  It turns out that if I just turned it over it worked the way I wanted!   

 

[Heronguy]

Moving on with the planking.  Now working from keel up as well as deck level down.  I hope to meet in the middle!

 

[Shiphile]

Enjoying your thread.  I am glad you come up with solutions to problem areas by using your head and not just relying on outside intervention.  That's how I build, not that help is bad, heaven no.  Will gladly take any advise I can get.  But for me, problems in a build is a learning curve for that next project.  Looking forward to more.

Cheers

Rick

[Heronguy]

Thanks Rick.  Reading through various build logs for a variety of ships has convinced me that there are lots of approaches to each step.  So we each get lots of scope for choosing our own path through the various challenges that arise.  I think that's one of the appeals of this hobby for me.  I can't really imagine running out of challenges on this and future builds!  I get to learn lots.

[Heronguy]

Just 3 more strikes on each side to finish the 1st planking.  I've got a fair bit of shaping to do on each of the planks to close up the hull so it is taking a bit of time. 

[Heronguy]

Happy day!  The hull is planked.  Still have to clean it up and finish the stern but the final strakes are in.

 

This was also an experiment using the Swiss Pear for the planking.  Compared with basswood, which I find too soft, the Swiss pear was delightful to work with.  It is very smooth grained and it holds a edge really well.  I'm fond of the appearance of the wood. It might not be most sensible for planking that will be covered - as it will in this build - but I enjoyed working with it.

 

Planking this hull is reasonably simple.  I tried two different approaches to tapering planks near the bow and eventually at the stern as well.  First was to use the taper gauge on my Byrnes saw.  That worked pretty well until I got nearer to completion of the planking and I had more "exotic" shapes to deal with (I still have a few kinks to work out on my planking skill set!)  The second was to use the Veritas mini-plane.  I didn't use it so much on earlier planking projects using basswood, but on the Swiss Pear it worked like a champ for me.

 

 

Here's the last strake.

 

 

And now the hull is planked.

[donrobinson]

Hey Doug, I like your approach of treating this first layer of planking as it were the one and final layer. It looks good, however, there are two problems.............now that you have passed up on basswood you will find yourself with an abundance of kindling, second problem once that hull is sanded are you going to be able to cover up that beautiful swiss pear????? Nice work!

[Tigersteve]

I look forward to seeing your planking sanded. Don't cover it up just yet. 

Steve

[Heronguy]

Don, too bad the planking job isn't really good enough for final presentation because it is lovely wood.  Using it for this was a good opportunity for me to learn about the tools.  I'll be using basswood for a Syren build in the future so I don't think I'll have enough firewood for next winter!  Then of course are the longer models that have even more wood in the hulls - right?

 

Steve, I hope it will sand up nicely.  I'll be enjoying that process even more than I did with the Bluenose II hull.  I think I'm partial to these sleeker hull shapes.  I seem to gravitate towards them more than the bluff bowed ships of the line.  

 

This is the 1st time in my, admittedly short, modelling career that I don't have a build at the planking stage - maybe I need to start another kit 

[Heronguy]

On 5/28/2017 at 6:52 AM, Tigersteve said:

I look forward to seeing your planking sanded. Don't cover it up just yet. 

Steve

Steve it sanded up pretty well.  Although I won't leave the hull as is I thought I'd experiment a bit to see what it might have been like.

 

This is the state of the hull before serious sanding

here's a closeup after a bit of sanding with 120 grit

 

Then I tried mixing up some sawdust from the Swiss pear with wood glue and a bit of water to try it as filler and then sanded some more (still 120 grit)

 

Closeups always look pretty bad to my eye so:

 

The filler doesn't really colour match as well as I'd hoped, and it is still pretty rough.  Probably it could be improved with more layers and more sanding - perhaps finer grit??

 

Just to take the experiment a bit further I put on a coat of Minwax poly on part of the hull.

 

 

[Tigersteve]

Nice experiment. Looks pretty good. What if you used more sawdust with white glue(no water) then sand with finer grit 220-320-400? 

Steve

[Heronguy]

4 minutes ago, Tigersteve said:

Nice experiment. Looks pretty good. What if you used more sawdust with white glue(no water) then sand with finer grit 220-320-400? 

Steve

Yeah, I'll give it a try tomorrow.  Thanks. 

[Tigersteve]

Well- I thought you didn't have enough work to do with it! Lol Hey- who knows, you might like the end result. 

Steve

[Heronguy]

Steve,

 

I did two things differently - i used Welding white adhesive, and I got finer dust from my sawdust machine (aka thicknesser).

 

The filler had the consistency of toothpaste.

 

The results were a smoother finish but no improvement in the colour matching.  The unexpected and less desirable side-effect was the very high gloss appearance of the new adhesive.  Took quite a bit of sanding to get rid of the adhesive layer.  

 

Ended up using 180 grit paper to give the smooth finish on the filled portions.  All in a a bette result.  

 

No more experiments just now - moving on.

[Heronguy]

I've finished the planking of the inner bulwarks and cleaned out the gun and oar ports prior to painting the inner bulwarks.

 

[Heronguy]

Inner bulwarks painted.  Now back to the exterior.

[Heronguy]

Joshua, I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for but happy to oblige.  If a different view is what you're after let me know,