US Brig Syren by Heronguy - Model Shipways - Scale 1:64

[David Rice]

Looking good. Since I am using Basswood, I decided to paint my Syren.  The last ship I built was with Basswood also. I stained some of it, but looking back, I wish I hadn't.

 

Are you going to make tree nails? I am at that point now.  Thinking about tree nails, then painting with watered down dark green paint. Similar to the color of French Ships, or black and cream colored like the USS Congress.  Not sure yet.

Edited August 10, 2017 by David Rice

[6ohiocav]

Doug,

 

It is interesting that the Syren and Niagara brigs are similar in design, albeit the Syren I believe is an ocean vessel and the Niagara has the Great Lakes shallow draft. That ship is on the list of future projects.

 

Good luck as you sail forward.

[Heronguy]

2 hours ago, David Rice said:

Looking good. Since I am using Basswood, I decided to paint my Syren.  The last ship I built was with Basswood also. I stained some of it, but looking back, I wish I hadn't.

 

Are you going to make tree nails? I am at that point now.  Thinking about tree nails, then painting with watered down dark green paint. Similar to the color of French Ships, or black and cream colored like the USS Congress.  Not sure yet.

 

I was hoping to do the trenails (treenail, also trenail, trennel, or trunnel).  Right now I'm so  focussed on the bulwarks and the little flaws I think the trenails would be an improvement.  Also I've never done them, and this is a learning build, I kinda owe it to the build to try them out.  

 

I will watch how you approach the process!   I don't feel like I have a particularly well developed aesthetic sense so it always a dither process for me to decide on colours and finishes!  Your mention of green sounds pretty good!

[Heronguy]

1 hour ago, 6ohiocav said:

Doug,

 

It is interesting that the Syren and Niagara brigs are similar in design, albeit the Syren I believe is an ocean vessel and the Niagara has the Great Lakes shallow draft. That ship is on the list of future projects.

 

Good luck as you sail forward.

Many thanks Darrell.  As for luck - I'll take it!!

[Heronguy]

I have taken a short diversion from planking to play with coppering alternatives.  I plan to copper both the Prince de Neufchatel and the Syren.  I'm at the stage to do the PdN.

 

Using the Syren instructions in chapter 8 to build a jig for applying rivets, I thought to use it for the PdN copper plates as well.

 

I have struggled a bit to build the jig.  The main problem was getting the size of the rivet heads reasonable.  Th brass nails that come with most of my kits are .08mm in diameter.  Given that the spacing of the rivets in Chuck's rivet pattern is 2mm I felt the rivet heads were too large.

 

I found some .06mm brass nails - still a bit large but much better.  I have some very small syringes with .03mm needles but the metal is quite bendy - I didn't do an experiment with them.

 

Here's my jig, and the port and starboard pattern blocks - one finished the other ready for grinding down the nails.

 

 

Some plates with the .6mm heads  (the copper is NOT discoloured - artifact of the photo)

 

The alternative was the use of a pounce wheel

 

and a side-by-side comparison of the plates

 

 

I found the pounce wheel process fast and easy.  The Syren jig is slower, and I had some problems with the nails puncturing the foil so that it pulled up when I tried to remove the patten block to move the foil for the next impression.  To be fair I haven't used the jig much yet and I may improve my technique with practice.

 

Now to decide which way to proceed.

 

 

[HIPEXEC]

The upper planks look just fine. They look like they are on an 1805 man-o-war. Planks!

[Heronguy]

Thanks Rich,

 

Just to clarify for me - you're referring to the bulwark planks not to the copper plates right?

 

 

[knightyo]

Hi Doug,

 

I made a jig very much like yours and used diabetic needles.  I printed out the pattern I wished, glued it to thin cardboard and slid each needle through the proper "hole" in the pattern so they just stood out the other end a touch.  Resin was then applied between the shafts in order to keep them from moving when I filed the "sharp" ends of the needles.  On the "blunt" end, it looks like I used liquid steel in order to affix a backing I could press down upon.  I "think" my diy jig allowed for "wobble" as well, so I didn't need to pull the unit straight off the tape, which made it easier to disengage.    It does take a little practice to use the jig, but you do become proficient fairly quickly, and that part of the project becomes fun rather than a burden.

 

You can see along the edges where there are a LOT of rivets, that they aren't perfectly symmetrical indentations.  I'm not sure if this is from the jig nails "moving" after repeated use, or if it was because I was too lazy to align them perfectly before launching into the indenting process.  Probably the latter, unfortunately. 

 

Edit... For the life of me I couldn't remember why I'd made two jigs, until I realized one was for port, the other for starboard.  The pattern I used did differentiate.  

 

Alan

Edited August 16, 2017 by knightyo

[HIPEXEC]

46 minutes ago, Heronguy said:

Thanks Rich,

 

Just to clarify for me - you're referring to the bulwark planks not to the copper plates right?

 

 

Yes! The upper gunwales. They look like they're supposed to.

[Heronguy]

Nicely done Alan.  I wouldn't have thought of that way to use the insulin needles.  I couldn't imagine drilling .03mm then glueing them in!  Maybe I can try out your technique. 

 

I'm sure you're right that if I use the jig for a while I'll get more proficient with it.  

 

With your density of rivets I'm impressed that you made 2 different impressions - it would be for yourself not the viewer I think!

[Gahm]

Hello Doug,

Looking at your staining results with Golden Oak and basswood you go through the same experience like everybody else does and did. The trick here is to sand the wood to a super smooth and CONSISTENT surface. The different shades of dark and bright areas which give the wood this blotchy appearance come from different degrees of surface roughness. Unfortunately basswood is VERY sensitive to this. Also the overall looks will improve tremendously once you have the black parts painted due to the nice contrast created between the Golden Oak and the black stain. In my experience using pre-stain treatment does not really help much to change the situation. Alternatively there are Syren models which were painted with ochre color. They look very nice! And from the historical perspective painting is probably 'more accurate' than staining as these ships normally were painted.

 

Btw, using insulin needles to fabricate the print head for the copper plates works very nicely. I also copied that idea a long time ago from Alan . He had published it in his build log before the big crash. 

 

Thomas

[Heronguy]

That's encouraging Thomas. Thank you for the advice on staining as well as the encouragement on the insulin sharps.  I have to be away for a few days so I won't try it til next week.  

[Heronguy]

42 minutes ago, Dubz said:

You need three stamps ;-) Port, Starboard and waterline, check here:

 

Dirk

 

Dirk - why didn't I realize that!! (I know the answer but it isn't flattering to me)  You have such a wonderful eye for detail and determination and skill to do it right! 

[Heronguy]

Much too long since I posted any progress on the Syren.  

 

After my whining about the finish on the gunwales I have sanded hem down and used finer paper to achieve a finish that I'm pleased with.  I'm leaving it for the now.  I've done a couple of attempts at a coppering jig.  I tried the insulin needles but wasn't having great success.  I've got a solution that looks like it will work for me but haven't finished it yet.  I'll be back!

 

But primarily I've been struggling with the transom.  I didn't like the way it was coming together - 

 

 

- so I tripped it off and did a "redo".  I think some of my problem with the transom came from the shaping of the stern filler blocks.  I don't have a good 3D sense until I see it finished and as a consequence I don't believe the shape of my ships stern is very accurate.  Rather than the straight planks I tried 1st time I've bent the planks  this time.  The transom piece from the kit has a curve at the bottom that I matched.  I'm happier with the results now but until I plank the hull I won't really be sure how it will all fit together.  My finger are crossed that It will be OK.  I like planking the hull so I'll be glad to get off the stern!

 

 

 

[Heronguy]

I feel like I'm planking the hull in slo-mo but I really enjoy the process of planking so it isn't a hardship. Current state:

 

[knightyo]

Doug,

 

I think this is one of the most satisfying parts of the build; especially after you sand everything smooth.

 

Alan

[fnkershner]

Doug - As you know I have passed this stage. But for me it was very painful. Can you give some details. I want to learn and improve. What glue did you use? How did you decide the tapering? Did you divide the hull into belts?

[Heronguy]

2 hours ago, knightyo said:

Doug,

 

I think this is one of the most satisfying parts of the build; especially after you sand everything smooth.

 

Alan

With you 100% Alan.  I find as the hull is planked the wonderful shapes become so much more apparent.  Very satisfying indeed!

[Heronguy]

2 hours ago, fnkershner said:

Doug - As you know I have passed this stage. But for me it was very painful. Can you give some details. I want to learn and improve. What glue did you use? How did you decide the tapering? Did you divide the hull into belts?

 

For what its worth (I like planking but I'm not very expert at it) this is my current process for the Syren.

 

Glue is just carpenter's glue (brand available here is LePage).  

On previous hulls I have followed the planking routines suggested in MSW docs and in Jim Robert's "Planking the Built Up Ship Model".  I have done the belts as suggested. I used a micro-plane from Lee Valley to taper the planks before bending them.  If required I also try to put in a lateral bend and/or a twist (especially at the stern).  I wet the planks for a few minutes then use a soldering iron-plank bender- to get the bends.  I have often used CA glue to tack the plank at the bow and then work back with carpenters glue on the bulkheads and the edge of the planks.  I use whatever clamps I can get to fit and hold depending on where on the hull the plank is going.  I usually only put on a pair of planks then leave it for glue drying.I plank both sides of the hull to keep everything balanced.

 

Back to this planking - I'm only using carpenter's glue - no CA this time. (I don't like CA very much).

Chuck's instructions on pages 22 and 23 seemed right for my hull so I've just started tapering the front 5" of each plank down to 3/16" at bulkhead N.  I keep measuring the remaining gap and haven't yet had to deviate from that formula.  

I taper the strip (usually 4 at a time).  Then I soak them for a while (longer soak since I'm not using heat oaths bend).  Put them in the jig that I made for the wale. and leave them overnight(or longer if I don't get around to it).

At the bow I thin out the plank so it will lie nicely in the rabbet and cut an angle to that it follows the curve of the stem. Clamp and glue the 1st 4 or 4 bulkheads and leave it to dry.

I leave the plank strip overlong at the while I glue the bow end. Once I'm far enough back on the bulkheads to be sure where the plank will end I trim it and taper its thickness as required to fit well into the counter.  As the bend is getting sharper now I re-wet the very end of the strip and use the plank bender again to get a good fit on the stern. (obviously I have to have enough of the strip still free- 4 or 5 bulkheads- to manage that).

 

 

 

[Heronguy]

I mentioned earlier that I'd ended up with a second set of bulkheads etc when the wood in the 1st set crumbled.  I've pushed ahead with the 2nd set and hope to plank it as well.  This one I'll plank in pear or walnut and finish it as natural wood rather than coppering it.  

 

I just got to the point of adding the stern formers on mkII.  Since I had good luck with the stern formers I cut from the plans by pining them for some additional strength I decided to do the same with the mkII.  I don't find the stern feels at all fragile even before adding all the lintels, sills and reinforcements.

 

 

My two Syrens

[Peter Bloemendaal]

That is not fair, you have an extra siren to practice on....

[Heronguy]

Yes,  but which one will be the better of the 2 -  not necessarily the 2nd!

 

Anyways there will be different mistakes on each because I have an abundance of goofs I can choose from!

Edited November 14, 2017 by Heronguy

[Heronguy]

I'm slowly closing in on the planking.  Using motivation from Rich (HIPEXEC) and from Peter Bloemendaal I have found that rounding the corner at the stern is not so difficult.  Rich demonstrated how well planks can be preshaped to fit the hull throughout the planking process.  I haven't gone the "full monty" on that but I am doing more to get the planks to fit before I attach them.  I still clamp the planks while the glue sets and It was Peter's demonstration of how he clamped around the stern that helped me rethink what I was doing.  

 

Although I haven't yet sourced a good cork block for the clamping I found that the following worked on the section of hull I'm currently working on.

I leave the plank long and soak the last few inches it for 30-60 minutes.  It then shapes easily around the stern bulkhead. The stern gunport is well places to allow  a Lee Valley stainless steel clothes peg t clamp the end of the plank.  I let it dry overnight.

 

I use an X-Acto knife with a chisel glad to trim off the excess for a nice fit at the counter.  The apply glue.  It still need some clamping but the clothes peg os too short so I just use a short piece of scrap to extend its reach.  Since the plank is already nicely bent it requires very little pressure to keep it in contact at the counter while the glue sets.

 

 

 

Getting closer.  - 9 more strakes to go and it looks like they will all be full length - no stealers or drop planks required.

[Peter Bloemendaal]

Hi Dough, it is looking good.

Just my 2 cents worth, I would do 2 things differently after I finished planking my hull.

I tried to cover the full hull length with each plank. That made it a lot harder finishing the stern edge. When looking at Chucks photo's he split them up in two halves and they met up at different bulkhead positions. (you might already been doing this but I couldn't see it in your photo's). So you have extra length at the stern to get the connection right.

At the stern I wet the planks and pre-bend them, but not enough. As you press them onto the bulkhead they compress a bit and they get a sharper bend at the bulkhead location. On my model you can see the location of the bulkheads on the outside of the hull which means it is not a smooth radius. With the last few planks I tried to get a tighter radius than needed and work with dried planks only. It's harder to wrap a plank around a radius and clamp the ends than to push it onto a radius and only hold the middle (theoretically...).

Sorry if it turned out to be a bit long winded.

[Heronguy]

On 11/19/2017 at 10:42 PM, Peter Bloemendaal said:

Just my 2 cents worth, I would do 2 things differently after I finished planking my hull.

I tried to cover the full hull length with each plank. That made it a lot harder finishing the stern edge. When looking at Chucks photo's he split them up in two halves and they met up at different bulkhead positions. (you might already been doing this but I couldn't see it in your photo's). So you have extra length at the stern to get the connection right.

At the stern I wet the planks and pre-bend them, but not enough. As you press them onto the bulkhead they compress a bit and they get a sharper bend at the bulkhead location. On my model you can see the location of the bulkheads on the outside of the hull which means it is not a smooth radius. With the last few planks I tried to get a tighter radius than needed and work with dried planks only. It's harder to wrap a plank around a radius and clamp the ends than to push it onto a radius and only hold the middle (theoretically...).

Somehow I missed this post in the fog of activity of the past 2 weeks.  I ended up continuing with full length planks so haven't tried your suggestion.  I did leave the planks overlong at the stern so there was some wood to clamp down while glue set. I resisted using CA glue to tack the ends the way I have previously  - probably in retrospect because I have the really thin stuff that gets all over everything. 

 

As my gap got smaller and I couldn't clamp a plank to the bulkheads I started working harder at getting the pre-bent planks just might.  I've been really pleased with how easy it makes the installation of the plank with very little clamping required.  I had read HIPEXEC's method before I started plank this hull but hadn't adopted the "form it until it fits perfectly" mantra he espouses.  I will from now on!

 

Thanks for your observations and suggestions - they are most welcome.

 

[Heronguy]

As I closed in on the final few planks I decided to try a goofy idea.  I think it worked ok but the purists may not think it appropriate.  

 

I had 6 planks to go.  I carefully measured the spacing at each bulkhead, marked a plank based on those values.  I took 3 planks and held them together while planing down the bottom edges so I ended up with 3 planks with the same profile.  Nothing unusual yet.  Carefully bent each plank to conform the the hull and installed each, one at a time.  

 

I need some minor clamping and discovered (I'm sure everyone else knows this!) that upside down clothes peg work well in narrow gaps.

 

 

For the final 3 planks I had a pretty curvy gap to fill and by now a very pointy gap at the bow.  

 

This would normally require one or 2 drop planks or an extra wide strip. Rather than that I chose to prepare the 3 remaining planks as usual (measure at each bulkhead, mark onto plank, plane the 3 strips to the same profile).  At this point I diverged from previous practice and glued the 3 strips together to make a wide strip that still looked like 3 individual strips.  (I know this is going to be covered by copper plates but I cared).  Some pre-bending and extra sanding created a single snug fitting plank that required no clamping.

 

 

And now the 1st planking is done.  

 

The 2 Syrens

 

[HIPEXEC]

Lookin' good!

[Heronguy]

After a little filling and sanding I added the wales and sheer strake.

 

 

[Heronguy]

I have been struggling to get the stern construction done. I was a bit aggressive with sanding the transom before I really appreciated how the whole stern comes together.  I also couldn't figure out how to get the  curved shaping of the lower fashion pieces as shown in the schematic at the top of page 27.  

 

After gnashing of teeth for a while I decided to just put something together (I can always redo can't I - and I still have my secret weapon - Syren mkII hull can be done differently and perhaps better)

 

 

I'm still struggling though.  Trying to bend the cap rail - today will be try # 4.

 

[donrobinson]

Three updates in one day!! I'm feeling useless now! What kind of wood are you trying to bend? My method is to soak then use a hair curler/straightener iron, go slow and repeat soaking as necessary. I usually only soak for only a minute or two, just enough to create steam when curling iron is applied. 

 Looking good