Cutty Sark by Nenad

[NenadM]

Sailor

 

I do not to work with long strips, and do not have long strips of veneer

 

Bob

 

Thanks for your response. In meantime, I measure some significant distances on both plans, and on the ship, and scale vary from 1,19-1,27-1,35

 

So I have no exact scale to grow up Campbell plans, and must work with sense

 

This days slow progress with second layer, noting worth to show for now

[NenadM]

Planks Close Encounters (of the Third Kind)

Edited January 2, 2014 by Nenad M

[popeye the sailor]

what the heck are you using.........old barn boards?!    looks awesome........I love the effect!

[NenadM]

 

 

what the heck are you using.........old barn boards?!    looks awesome........I love the effect!

 

 

Popeye

I like look and feeling of this little beasts too, and it is a pitty they did not match to black hull colour of Citty Sark.

 

For some future building it is good to remember

I go down to workshop to take some shots and explain process
 
Deja vu
 
As usually, completelly done by accident
 
I was looking for solution for one question, and, as usually, found something I do not expect
 
I was trying to resolve problem of planking considered to curvatures of hull, because veneer I have is not elastic enough to asume proper smooth lines
 
So, little thinking, and I remember that acrylic paint turn to something plastic when dry, and plastic is elastic by default, and think: How it would be to "put" some "plastic" to veneer ?
 
There is some piece of veneer I have and use
 

 
First I cut veneer to pieces 5cm wide, and thined it with fine sanding ( not cutted this piece on picture, thisi is just for example)
 

 
A drop of acrylic paint to thined veneer
 

 
With putty knife spread  this drop over the surface and remove excess on both sides ( later you can decide which side look better for purpose you need it)
 

 
Wait to complete dry untill tomorrow, and then thin it again with fine sandpaper on both sides
 

 
Remove dust, and cut to slices of desired with ( 5 cm x 3mm in my case)
 

 
And glue to hull on place you want
 

 
I used black acrylic which I will use for hull later
 
And imagination start to work, and ideas drops and drops and drops
 
For instance, you can use different stronger colours for primer layer, and another transparent or semi-transparent colours as second layer, and effects can be really amazing. Different measure of strenght and transparency in layers, and also different colours and combination of colours. Maybe not ony acrylic ? Also you can experimente with different kind od veneer. No limits
 
Happy modelling and thanks for your interest

Edited January 10, 2014 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

No shipwork today

 

Nice weather outside, and I persuaded Admiral to forget and leave endless polishing of house and to go on a short trip around Belgrade

 

Mount Avala (with its 511 m height smuggled to the mountain) right next to Belgrade.

 

Nice walking path and picnic area with some interesting details

 

Complex at the top is dominated by two objects: Monument to the Unknown Soldier and the television tower

 

At the place where monument is built, there was ancient fortres known to ancient Romans to keep their mines (magnesium, mercury lead). In the middle century there was build fortres Žrnov, last to the 1934. year when "clever" king Aleksandar Karadjorjevic the first, blew it up to build Today monument

 

Here is a picture of Old Zrnov 

 

 

And monument

 

 

 

Monument was build by the famous Yugoslavian artist Ivan Mestrovic, inspired by Tomb of Cyrus the Great, surrounded by caryatids that support the roof. The eight sculptures symbolize the mothers of soldiers and nations and regions of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia (that united kingdom lead to SFRJ which was broken in pieces during civil wars 1990-2000)

 

Walk through regulateed forest, to the tower

 

TV tower was put into operation in 1965. year, tall 202.87 meters. It was a masterpiece of architecture , the only tower in the world , which is the intersection of a equilateral triangle symbolized Serbian tripod seat

 

Previously, the restaurant was on the gondola to 118 m , but was closed since 1970. year.

 

Seemingly " skinny " on three legs , which relied on the basic blocks buried 1.4 meters into the rock , the tower has resisted the ravages of time and the onslaught of kosava " walking " in diameter and one meter . It was demolished 29 April in 1999. The aerial bomb during the NATO aggression on Yugoslavia 37 th day of the bombing .

To the destruction of the World Trade Centre on the 11th September in 2001. The Avala Tower was the highest building in the world collapsed .

 

Tower was and still is Symbol of Belgrade. Travelers who approached the road to Belgrade would know that far from the city when they saw the Avala tower .

 

Removing the remains of the tower began in May 2005th and lasted 2 months. Construction of the new tower began end of 2006. year. Reconstruction work started on the 6th February, 2007. year. Completed 23 October 2009

 

Tower has two elevators and restaurant at 119 meter and lookout at 122 to a meter in height. The total height of the tower is 204.57 meters .

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2014 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

First side almost done

 

[mtaylor]

Nice work on the Cutty, and thanks for the pictures of Mount Avala and TV Tower.

[Sailor1234567890]

Are the lengths of your planks close to scale? they seem close but maybe a bit shorter?

[NenadM]

Thx for your interest, Daniel

 

Here is explanation to your question

 

Working on part of bulwark with white panels, I made it wide as soon is possible to fit scale on C-plans. But, when time to mount them come, half of milimeter up, 1/4 mm down, layer of glue, and it drops almost 5mm wide instead about 4 mm. This reflects to outside look, because second rail from top must follow down edge of panels and future nailholder

 

Then, considering I am not able to make rail thiner than 1mm, additional wideness come, so, rail + space + rail on my model is 1+5+1 mm 

 

Admiral calls for dinner, so it will continue later ...

 

Extension ...

 

 

Ahhhh

 

My favourite ...

 

 

 

+

 

 

+

 

 

=

 

 

( Bob, you must try this : spinach, poached eggs, fried eggs on bread and milk )

 

Back to the Cutty

 

Where I stopped ? ( Full belly empthy mind)

 

Oh, yes

 

And when upper part of bulwark raised to 6-7 mm, Campbell plans can not be applied, because by them to keep in scale, planks had to be 5-6 mm wide, and I think it is to much

 

Looking at the pictures, I noticed that planks are little narrower than the space between rails, so, if space is 4,5-5 mm, than planks have to be 3-3,5 mm, and it looks (for me) right in scale by photos

 

Here are some photos to compare space between rails and planks, and wideness of planks with the hull

 

 

Next question - length of planks. In C-plans, there is nothing about it ( or I am blind)

 

In pictures, it is not clear, and to me it seems that place of composition of planks in same line is not visible because thick layer of black paint

 

That is my idea, to fill composition with putty or with wood dust on edges of planks in same line, and when black paint cover it ... I think it will be OK

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 6, 2014 by Nenad M

[Sailor1234567890]

Awesome.

[Lou van Wijhe]

Nenad,

 

The hull planks are not all the same length, the length varies between 27'6" and 36'. In contrast to ships with wooden frames, the plank ends are not fixed to the frames but to a butt plate between them. There are about 36 strakes of planking per side, the planks being 10" wide. This is straight from the horse's mouth.

 

Lou

[rfolsom]

Nenad,

 

I definitely agree with Lou on the plank lengths;  I don't think, in my Humble Opinion, that the planking butt locations on the hull are a big deal.  I try for an average of 30 scale feet in plank length, and adjust the staggering to fit the bulkheads (3 strakes between)  If I were building a true plank-on-frame hull, I'd be a little more particular, including treenails, etc. (and butts on actual frames, not kit bulkheads).  However, I'm satisfied with my plank dimensions, even though I could have spent a little more time with tapering and fitting.

 

Hmm.. definitely would like more information on your Admiral's recipe,  but I suppose this is the wrong forum;  many questions on this..(Fresh spinach?  Poach egg in water? Stock? Cook toast in milk? Seasoning?)

 

Objection, irrelevant. (for MSW).

 

Objection, leading the witness. (for Bob's hunger)

[NenadM]

Finished first side of hull, move to another, and good progres

 

 

God, I start dreaming this little things ... 

 

Cut,glue,cut,glue, line up, cut, glue, line up, cut ..... little booooring ... Fortunately, after this, there is left only one big planking job in front of me (main deck)

 

Edit: I forgot four boats !!!! And "roofs" of deck houses  !!! 

 

Another overeaten day (Christmas lunch). Hapiness is that in couple of days I ll start to work. If this eating situation continue, I soon could not pass through garage door (joke.. 190 cm and 95 kg with 55 years is not much ).

 

Here is new look and feel of CS

 

 

 

This days I managed to rescale C-planss to scale of my CS, and doing some compares

 

Bow and the stem must be corrected later when finish planking of second layer. Curvatures of bow and stem on Tehnodidakta plans are wrong. Holder of Nannie is also wrong ...

 

I hope to finish planking about 7-10 days, then to prelinimary paint it black, and in mean time to start finding somewhere in Belgrade Zinc foil for "coopering" 

Edited January 7, 2014 by Nenad M

[popeye the sailor]

the hull looks super Nenad........she's really taking on the looks of the Cutty!   I still like the wood color you've done......a weathered look, as one might have seen back in the day,  when she was owned by the Portuguese.   splendid work! 

[Sailor1234567890]

Agreed. That weathered look is really cool.

[NenadM]

Second "Hull war" is almost done

 

Hard work today (4+3 working hours) and another side second layer done

 

 

 

Next sanding (again ...). Very light sanding this time

 

Unfortunately, CS one of this days must exit her "Ferriera" phase and get black paint over hull

 

Thinking about Ferriera, every time my heart tightenes when I see her poor and neglected appearance in period from 1895 to 1916.  But, will she be alive today without this stage ? What would be her destiny having in mind that days of merchant sailships where gone with the wind ? Just to remember destiny of Flying cloud ( she was burned for the scrap metal value of her cooper and iron fastenings) or Thermopylae (On 13 October 1907, the Portuguese Navy towed her down the Tagus river using two warships, and before Amelia de Orleans, Queen of Portugal, she was torpedoed with full naval honours off Cascais) or Ariel and others disappear somewhere in the oceans. Who know. Just to remember that CS as Ferriera in 1922 was the last clipper operating anywhere in the world.

 

In her history, Cutty is something like bird Phoenix, almost died as Ferriera, and reborn again in all her beaty when Wilfred Dowman recognize Her

 

( I am not so clever and educated ... allmighty Wiki)

[popeye the sailor]

she also went by another name during that time........Maria Do Amparo....after the storm that nearly tore her apart,  she was fitted as a Barquentine.  yea......she was a tough old bird

[Sailor1234567890]

I only wish they had sent her back to sea after her latest refit instead of condemning her to a dock in that most unatural suspended structure. Look what the Australians did with James Craig. I look forward to seeing what they do with City of Adelaid. I'm sure she'll be stunning as well. The Australians seem to know how to rejuvenate an old beauty like this. Cutty Sark is about the toughtest out there I think. Her longevity demonstrates this. One day someone will replicate her and do her justice.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Sailor1234567890

[NenadM]

Could anybody today be able to drive Her 17,5 knots only with full sails up from England to China/Australia around Horn? Do not believe

 

Could anybody today want/be able to live/work on Her without electric current, internet, GPS, cell and sattelite phone, TV, diesel motors, air-conditioning, electrical motors who operate sails, computer systems for sails and navigation, without limited working time? Do not believe in that too. And if you add to Her such modern stuff, She will no longer be Cutty Sark

 

That was brave time for real heroes of sailing and life, and let it be

 

On Youtube it can be found movies about sailing on similar clipper Stad Amsterdam. Better to say - playing to sail. Not bad at all, but what a difference ...

 

 

Old castles are something real awesome, I really enjoy seeing them, but, to be honest, do not want to live inside

Edited January 9, 2014 by Nenad M

[Sailor1234567890]

I firmly believe that with both castles and ships there can be a balance struck so you have the essence and feel yet still have some of the modern comfort and convenience of it. I would not want to live in a draughty old castle either but if you were to properly insulate, seal things up tight, heat it, provide power, Air conditioning, internet connectivity etc. (properly hidden in the walls), as well as things like running water, hot and cold, modern cooking appliances, refrigeration...... etc etc etc, then yes a real stone castle would be cool to live in. As far as driving Cutty Sark at 17.5 knot today.... I have no idea if there is anybody skilled enough to do what she did back then, however we have things like weather routing and GPS feeds that would allow us to cheat a little bit on that. Modern sail cloth and rigging lines as well as building methods would allow her to be a much stronger ship than she was. LIkely faster. That 17.5 knots is a top speed, average speeds were closer to 14 and I see no reason why with modern technologies to help, an average of 14 knots could not be sustained. There are plenty of young sailing ship sailors today in the training ship world who would jump at the chance to drive a ship like that as fast as they dare. I know I would given the opportunity.

 

Imagine this: Cold moulded hull. Carbon fiber lower spars, hollow wooden upper spars. You've saved weight aloft making her a bit stiffer. Remove her elm keel and false keel and replace it with external lead. It has been shown (and used effectively by naval architects) that lead has about the strength of white oak when used in the same size. That means her external keel could be replaced with a lead keel giving her increased stability by increasing her GM. More efficient blocks with nearly frictionless bearings would make working her easier but we don't want to take away from the actual act of sailing her by connecting everything to electric winches. We still want to sail her now don't we? Crew accomodations can be fit into her holds with a modicum of comfort and convenience items. Hot and cold running water, proper heating and air conditioning etc. Modern Navigation suits with radar, radio, GPS etc would be required by law and we'd be delinquent in our responsibilities not to include them even if they weren't required.

Given the fact that the weight of accomodation spaces in a ship are significantly less than that of a load of tea or wool, she'd have a need for more internal ballast, likely in the form of lead trimming ballast, fresh water tankage, fuel (for she'd need auxiliary propulsion and machinery) and stores. I suspect built like this, she would sail higher out of the water, possibly even higher than her days in the tea trade yet still be a stiffer ship. Modern high strength lines in the standing rigging would reduce weight and windage aloft while the lead keel would improve her stiffness (Stability wise, not so much structurally in a longitudinal manner). Stronger sailcloth and rigging would mean she could likely stand up to a stiffer breeze than the original without being laid on her beam ends. I think one could expect over 19 knots of this hypothetical ship. All this and she'd look to the casual observer, like Cutty Sark did back in her prime. The only obstacle I can see to this is money. Nobody with money is interested in doing this and those that do have it choose to build massive white wedding cake type motor yachts with helipads on them.

They do however build castles and live in them. Massive stone homes of 10 000 + square feet with towers, turrets, gates, 20 foot tall wooden entry doors and all the other things you'd expect of a castle. They include Wifi, air conditioning, 10 car underground garages, swimming pools, tennis courts, home theaters, home gyms and just about anything else you can imagine. Too bad they have no taste when it comes to things nautical.

 

By the way, if anybody wants to foot the bill, I'd be happy to spend your money to build this "hypothetical ship"

 

(Sorry for the thread hijack Nenad, I'll let you get back to showing us your progress now).

[NenadM]

Daniel

 

I do not think about your post as hijack. One of the things I enjoy in this hobby is just imagination about days of sail

Yesterday I let Her majesty to rest from me, and have watched some clips on YouTube about stormy sea (strong wind, waves were about 20m from down to the top, maybe more) and just like to think about how it was on these days...

 

Imagine you are sailor, deep night in heavy storm on such a waves somewhere around Horn, and Cap order you to go up on mast to do something with ropes and sails. You see and hear anything, try to walk on deck hearing only water posts banging trying to release enormous amount of water from deck, only can touch and recognize by sense where you are going. Strong wind try to blow you up from rope stairs until you climb, everything is wet and slippery, cold and frozen, mast moves from left to right, fore and aft in strong angles trying to oust everything what is on, and you are up somewhere standing on some tiny rope 15m above deck, your legs tremble with the effort to keep balance, your arms stiff by pain in trying to keep yourself as near as possible to mast, trying with your frozen fingers to tie or untie some knot, or to grapple with wild beast of sail hint near you which unbridley wraps around you and hit you as wind hit her. You still see anything, wet to bones, with water sprayed directly in face and immediately freezes, and you know if you do not do what you need to do, you and your mates probably would not survive storm. And you know that night is long, and have no idea how many more times this scene will repeat. You can give up, go to jail, and be unloaded in first harbour, but than your 3-5 kids will die in hunger

 

To be more realistic, remember that sheet happens. Ropes broke, blocks and dead-eyes go to hell, and you must reconstruct them without delay, with released mast which wildly dangling around. Must is broken and ropes are hopelessly intricate ... Still night, still storm, still cold and wet ...  

 

And always keep in mind, that whole world trade and traffic, politic and development, and  complete History of man kind more than 2000 years go only in this way, until steam boats arrive

 

Impressive, when look at things on this way

 

 

PS

 

I hope my English is understandable, and the picture is quite clear

Edited January 10, 2014 by Nenad M

[mtaylor]

Well said Nenad.  Your words paint a vivid picture. 

[NenadM]

Thank you Mark

 

Now, while sanding time lasts. there is time to CAREFULLY analyze and plan next steps. I must dive deep in C-plans and other instruction and plans I have

 

First move is light sanding hull planks, fill holes, light sanding

 

Then correct bow and stem and stern

 

Then first hand of black paint

 

Then "Coopering"

 

and then - WHAT ???

 

There are some details that must be done before climbing on deck. On the other side, on all three decks there will be some rough dirty and dusty works which have to be done BEFORE some other fragile works outside on hull

 

And, bearing in mind that I barely pulled out of the swamp of my blunders. I do not want to get in another swamp

 

Thinking work is in front of me, with dear not to forget something

 

Must make some table-sheet with steps, their order and check-boxes ...

 

Think, Nenad, think hard ...

 

Edit:  In Belgrade, there is no Zync or brass foil for "coopering". Today I went to one place where you can bye cooper foil. They have 0,1 mm, but to me it looks hard to work with ? So rough ... There is no thinner than 0,1 mm ...

Edited January 10, 2014 by Nenad M

[Sailor1234567890]

Very vivid picture you painted. I also enjoy the imagination aspect of it. I am a sailor and have been at sea in some very nasty weather. But like they did back then, we mostly remember the sunny days where everything is beautiful, the weather is fine, the sea is marching in ordered waves downwind and everything is right with the world. I can't begin to appreciate the restrictions you seem to have on materials aquisition. Seems every page of your thread so far mentions not being able to get a particular item or piece of material where you are. Must be terribly frustrating.

[NenadM]

In Belgrade, when you windows shoping, it seems there is everything .... until you start to look for particular thing

Edited January 10, 2014 by Nenad M

[rwiederrich]

You're doing a great job.....

[jud]

Last picture. Inboard lifelines rigged, should tell the story. Only seen them rigged once, that was aboard a destroyer.

jud

[NenadM]

Jud

 

Even the name "lifeline" tells everything ...

 

Some unsucessfull testing with alu-foil. Bad, but idea of appearance is here

 

 

 

And it seems that solution will be in cooper self adhesive tape 0,035 mm thin 1 cm wide which is used for antistatic works . Must find it (somewhere) and touch it and feel on my fingers to see is is usefull

 

Edited January 10, 2014 by Nenad M

[mtaylor]

Nenad,

 

Check with burglar alarm companies as they use that tape on windows.   Or maybe arts/crafts place that does stained glass windows??????  

[NenadM]

And now, I am realy in deep trouble, and realize that I am not get out of swamp jet

 

Who forced me to scale C-plans (Campbell) to size of T-plans (Tehnodidakta) ?

 

Devil do not sleep, and I had seen with corner of my eye that something do not match

 

Looking one, looking other, looking Her, looking Bob`s picture of bow on my door .... something is wrong in whole picture, and that tortured me

 

I have no scanner in home to take two scans aas two layers in photoshop to compare, so use copy paper and redraw on it bow from T-plans, and when I put it over C-plans, here is what I got !!!!!!

 

 

What this means ?

 

I can correct down side of holder of Nannie relatively easy

 

I can eventualy correct upper side of holder of Nannie , or not, this can not be seen because of support part for ornaments 

 

Here arise question No 1 :

 

Do this or not ?

 

But that is not all

 

I strongly decline to take even a small look at the stern and to compare lines there, having in mind what was there and what I have done to correct elephant *** I have made on that place, and lines are surelly not correct

 

And there is question No 2

 

If I leave stern as it is, can I leave bow as it is ?

 

Also

 

In T-plans, depth of keel is 3,5-4 mm, in C-plans, depth of keel is stgrong 4 mm. In Her Majestu, there are 3,5 mm

 

Question No 3

 

Replace all of the keel with 4mm wide wood or not

 

Next

 

Angle and position of bowsprit is not correct in T-plans. Top is too down

 

In T-plans, begining of bowsprit is completly hiden under forecastle deck. In C-plans and on a Citty, bowsprit rises from narow part of forecastle deck

 

Also, bowsprit is thicker on root and thinner on top, as in C-plans as in CS. In T-plans - thickness is same at the root and at the top of bowsprit

 

 

Question No 4

 

To remove and to remake ? 

 

Answer is = YES

 

Question no 5 - where is bowsprit holder in this stage ? And how it looks ?

 

And there is conclusion

 

Second layer of planking is not done yet until this corrections will be done

Maybe it will be neccessary to replank (again) forecastle deck

 

WHAT TO DO ????

 

I feel so nervously, and get out from shipyard and join Admiral to stare in some stupid movie

Edited January 11, 2014 by Nenad M