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Posted

Nice, clean work !

 

I never seen belaying pins on booms, I think, only cleats. Interesting. What goes onto the pins, the clew outhauls or the flag halliards ?

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Honestly Eberhard, I am not yet sure at this point.  As there are also cleats, (see photo below) this will take a little research.  A line on the starboard pin is obvious in the photo by I don't know which line this is.    Will keep you posted on what I find.

Allan

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Edited by allanyed

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Posted (edited)

I did some more checking on the drawings in Chappelle.  In one drawing (page 539) the main boom guy fall belayed to the pin on the port side.    The topping lift fall belays to the pin on the starboard side as Jim wrote.  I cannot find anything so far in Chappelle or in the Ernestina photos as to what belays to the cleat on the starboard side of the boom. There appears to be no cleat on the port side. (Chappelle, page 547)

Thanks guys!!

 

Edited by allanyed

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Posted

Not sure myself, but I have seen pins located in the boom jaws before. Although the photos I am checking this against is a bit difficult to see,  Erik Ronnberg is using them on his Smuggler and knockabout schooner Thomas A. Cromwell. The lines look like they are traveling against the main boom from aft to forward and belayed to the pins. For the Smuggler Ronnberg is identifying them as topping lift starboard and boom tackle port. Cleats are for 

flag halliards. He does not identify the lines for Cromwell.

Scott 

Posted

Scott,   Since I last posted I was also thinking the cleat may be for a flag halliard.  I am checking with the shipyard that is rebuilding Ernestina/Effie M. Morrissey to see what information they have.

Allan 

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Posted

Hello all,

I took my suggestion from a combination of information from Chapelle's Fishing Schooner book and Model Shipways plans for the Latham but don't think the rules are absolute. I'm currently working on the much older schooner Dove also shown in Chapelle's book which has the pins on the boom but appears to use the starboard pin to terminate the main topsail tack.

Jim

My Current Project is the Pinky Schooner Dove Found here: Dove Build Log

 

Previously built schooners:

 

Benjamin Latham

    Latham's Seine Boat

Prince de Neufchatel

Posted

Thanks Jim,

Don't know about you, but If anyone would take up the challenge and create a proper index for Chappelle's American Fishing Schooners from page 313 to the end, which is a compilation of information from his notebook, I would be happy to pay for a copy of the index.  While the subjects are in somewhat alphabetical order, the layout makes no sense and I find myself constantly thumbing through pages to find information.    

 

For the main topsail tack, I only recalled it going to a pin on the pin rail, not to the boom. (page 332 diagram in Chappelle) .  Then  I looked at the drawings of Dove that you mention and see exactly what you mean and yes, different strokes for different folks is not unusual in belaying lines.  I never really looked at these drawings of Dove before and must say, she looks to be a fun build.   Added it to my own bucket list.   Do you have a build log going?  Would love to see pics of her as your build progresses.

 

Allan

PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series.   Click on http://trafalgar.tv   There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time.  THANK YOU

 

Posted (edited)

With the main mast stepped and secure, time to work on the shrouds.   For the Effie size and late 19th century she has three shrouds on each side for both the main and foremast.   The shrouds are galvanized steel, 3.25" in circumference and painted black.   Having totally failed using wire in the past, I have painted appropriate  line black.  In this case I am using 0.025 diameter line from Syren.   Easy enough to put a full coil in a small jar of watered down acrylic paint, give a few shakes then hang the line to dry.  A small clip for weight on the end prevents shrinkage or kinks as it dries.

 

Because the line is steel and the deadeyes are wood, canvas was wrapped around the line where it went around the upper deadeye then painted white.  Same thing where the shroud goes round the mast head.  I used silkscreen painted with tubed acrylic titanium white and glued with matte medium and wrapped it around the line as can be seen in the photo.  I went overly long as the shroud was spliced then served from the deadeye upwards for a few inches (at scale)  so the serving covered the excess "canvas" on the model shroud. 

 

As there are three shrouds, the foremost was a swifter as described by Chapelle in his notes in The American Schooners.  The swifter was cut spliced with one shroud starboard, one port.  The next two are paired, with the starboard going on first.   

Allan

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Edited by allanyed

PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series.   Click on http://trafalgar.tv   There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time.  THANK YOU

 

Posted

Hello Allan

 

Just to let you know, I've started digging through old images of my Dove project, still underway, and opened a build log which I will flesh out over the weeks to come.

 

Definitely interesting work on the shrouds above. You really seem focused on the details.

 

Jim

My Current Project is the Pinky Schooner Dove Found here: Dove Build Log

 

Previously built schooners:

 

Benjamin Latham

    Latham's Seine Boat

Prince de Neufchatel

Posted

I suppose I am one of many that get joy out of the details.  Alas, this also brings a LOT of agita because it can be difficult, if not impossible, to achieve at times depending on the object and the scale involved.   

 

As you had done with Dove, I set aside this project for about 7 years before picking it up again, and am once again torn as to what is more fun for me, ships from the 18th century and earlier, or schooners from the late 19th century into the 20th century.   

 

Allan

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
Posted

 

Progress photos of Effie follow.   Should be done with the standing rigging in a week or so then on with sails and running rigging.  As with models of ships of old where it is far easier to pre-rig the spars with the various hardware, I have done so with the gaffs, booms, and spike and continue to find it a good practice to follow.   

 

Allan 

 

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Posted

Rigging going well Allan, neatly done.

Keith

 

Current Build:-

Cangarda (Steam Yacht) - Scale 1:24

 

Previous Builds:-

 

Schooner Germania (Nova) - Scale 1:36

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/19848-schooner-germania-nova-by-keithaug-scale-136-1908-2011/

Schooner Altair by KeithAug - Scale 1:32 - 1931

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/12515-schooner-altair-by-keithaug-scale-132-1931/?p=378702

J Class Endeavour by KeithAug - Amati - Scale 1:35 - 1989 after restoration.

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10752-j-class-endeavour-by-keithaug-amati-scale-135-1989-after-restoration/?p=325029

 

Other Topics

Nautical Adventures

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13727-nautical-adventures/?p=422846

 

 

Posted (edited)

Thanks Keith!

I cannot recommend enough the internally stropped blocks from Syren.  I followed the instructions for assembling them on his website but modified to using PVA and found the results to be better than  using CA.   His rope is also a pleasure to work with as I have not yet tried making my own.  With this material available at a good price I doubt I will ever make my own unless I do a fully rigged rated ship in a relatively large scale. 

Allan   

 

Edited by allanyed

PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series.   Click on http://trafalgar.tv   There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time.  THANK YOU

 

Posted

Allan

i love your work...so clean and crisp.

 

I am just catching up on this saga of pins and cleats on the boom.  It may be a stretch, but I learned a lot when I researched Bluenose for my build.  I went to Lunenburg twice, spoke with the captain, sailed on her etc.  He pointed out things of difference on Canadian schooners, but they did not include this subject.

 

There is a great resource I bought while there, The measured drawings on Bluenose LL by L B Jensen.  He had taken, as I understand, information from the original 1921 as a basis.  Also, there are numerous photos of the original online that I used. The Captain told me running rigging has not changed other than material upgrades.

 

The book of drawings clarify as follows:

  • Pins in the yoke of the main boom clearer take both the Boom Tackle [ guy] on the starboard side and topping lift on the port side.
  • As to the ring forward and below the boom….if I understand correctly....The yoke rides on what I unknowingly call a table or boom seat.  Below the table are two bands with forward attachment of a small winch. I assume [ guessing] it was for using the halyard whips to snug up sails.  The new Bluenose II , which is actually Bluenose III as like Ernestina she was completely rebuilt again about 10 years ago, has nothing below the “table…boom seat”.  Another possibility was to place a snatch block there instead of on the deck for taking halyards or whips.  We need to remember there is, nor ever was, a motorized winch to raise those heavy sails.
  • Flag halyards on the Bluenose drawings are pinned to the forward most end of the port and starboard pin rails. One on either side [ two more needed pins.] 

 

One of my concerns looking at the Ernestina park service drawings is the lack of pins on the rails.   There are more lines than pins for complete running rigging, dory tackle etc. and no place to put them.  Good luck .

 

jon

Posted

Jon,

I was concerned about the number of pins available as well. The drawings from the National Archives only show  10 port and 10 starboard on the rails as well as seven eyes.  There are also the   pin rails around each mast and two pins forward near the bow.   Plus we know of the two at the boom saddle for a total of 34.   Chapelle mentions a total of 43 with their positions listed on the schooner Phillip P. Manta, including four in the stern seat.   To be sure there were a LOT of variations in the number and locations of the belay points over the years so I am unsure of the exact location on the Effie at the time she was built.  I would be absolutely thrilled to have an exact belay plan based on contemporary information on Effie specifically.  With her modifications over the years, including for Arctic exploration service, there were changes in many things as you know, including different deck houses, an engine, air cowls, and so forth so could have been with the rigging as well. 

Regarding the boom seat, yes, from what I could find the saddle/yoke did not rest directly on these but rather had a boom seat on the forward side of the mast.

 

The more I learn the more I find I don't know and that is a great thing as life will never be dull. Thanks for your input!   Do you have the current belay plans for Ernestina from the shipyard or what they are basing the plan on?   Even  though it is current, it may be closer to what she had when launched than plans from other sources I have found.  

 

Allan

PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series.   Click on http://trafalgar.tv   There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time.  THANK YOU

 

Posted

Allan

 

no sail plans yet for EM.  One more detail I suspect is there were more connections in the stern.  I again take my learning from Bowdoin arctic rigging and Bluenose with its large size.   There were quarter tackles to secure the boom, the topmast backstays were made aft for the upwind side and last pin behind dory tackle on the main mast for leeward side.   There were down hauls on the main gaff peak tied off to Starboard. Also several lines both on the rails and  the fife rails needed snatch blocks on deck to allow a few men to grab the line and pull and then take it to a pin to tie it off.  We learned that while sailing on Bluenose.  I believe there is no need for all the travelers on Effie  though. For sails like the fisherman's staysail, they were flown from the deck per tack.   the tack lines and all add up to more pins.  The halyard was continuous and that means two more pins and deck block.  Main and fore halyards were continuous as well.   I only made the pin rail according to the drawing.  if i were going to fly sail I would add several pins.  I would move flag halyards to the shrouds etc. like on a ship.  i wish you the best in the challenge.   

 

I am grateful for the park service drawings but remind us all that they are measured drawings made after many tough years of packet service and ultimate return to US in sorry shape.   I agree with you and other commenters above that Chappelle and other Gloucester/ Essex Schooner  info is the best source.

 

I typed this much because it is 18 degrees outside.  

 

cheers 

Posted

Jon,

Lacking better information, I agree, Chapelle is my "go to" source.  Even there, he gives multiple rigs for some lines showing that not all vessels were rigged exactly the same, even if those vessels were similar in size and type.    

18 degrees  -- no thank you.   

Allan

PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series.   Click on http://trafalgar.tv   There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time.  THANK YOU

 

  • 3 weeks later...
Posted

Couple pics as she is today, nearly ready to be packed up and shipped.  Top mast hoops are being remade and need to go on and a few little odds and ends.

 

 

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176257170_Topmasts.thumb.JPG.916ba4b160b3b941821f364c5f89ead2.JPG

 

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  • 2 months later...
Posted

Been asleep for a while but your project is looking quite good.

 

Re. missing pins?  

 

I assume you've considered the supplemental pin racks laced into the shroud lanyards re: p. 336 in Chapelle. This feature could give you eight additional pins per mast. These racks also show up in contemporary photographs eg. in Garland's Down to the Sea.

"

My Current Project is the Pinky Schooner Dove Found here: Dove Build Log

 

Previously built schooners:

 

Benjamin Latham

    Latham's Seine Boat

Prince de Neufchatel

Posted

Thanks guys.

Yep Ed, she went to Bristol Marine in Maine who is rebuilding the Ernestina and who also got the Boothbay 65 a few months earlier for their investor presentations.     Great client! 

 

PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series.   Click on http://trafalgar.tv   There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time.  THANK YOU

 

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