PT 109 by popeye the sailor - Dumas

[lmagna]

We have something in common other than this forum and love of ships Mark.

 

My daughter-in-law was the reason I was able to get my shots as well. This state is pretty much in chaos and totally lost when it comes to shots. I don't even think they have covered 50% of the recognized seniors yet and the vaccine has been out for months now! There was another story today where a senior couple had to drive hundreds of miles across the state to get a shot. There seems to be no cohesive leadership on this effort at all.

[Kevin]

Dennis, whats the quality of the white metal like?

[Old Collingwood]

On 2/27/2021 at 9:55 AM, Kevin said:

Dennis, whats the quality of the white metal like?

Hope you dont mean - in the vaccine Kevin😜

 

I will get my coat.....

 

OC.

[popeye the sailor]

I'm not really sure Kevin.......drills like aluminum,  but I'm sure it's a tin alloy.  it's likely no different than some of the metal fitting normally found in most kits.  all I know is that it doesn't take to solder very well.  it does need some general cleaning though......some flash and mold lines.  if you like,  I can snap a picture of these metal parts,  and show you  

[jep1210]

Oh man, this looks like it gunn be good. I'll have to catch up on this and Mog's build when I get home from work....tsk stupid work...always getting in the way of fun...they want me to be productive, I show up isn't THAT enough?!?!?! 

[popeye the sailor]

thanks.....Mog is a lot farther than I am    it's slow at the moment,  until I can get the hardware installed.  then I can resin the hull.

 

getting very close to retirement........I can't wait   

[jep1210]

Whoo, got all caught up in this build, coming along nicely. Still a little unclear of your plan for it, R/C, static, I think you said static and I assume you're getting the extra running gear to make it more accurate with 3 screws???

[popeye the sailor]

no......I'm only planning two screws,  to simplify things.  it would have been good if these parts were included in the kit,  since the kit does lean towards R/C more than static.  I don't frequent too many bodies of water,  so R/C would be a waste on this one.  I do have a kit that has a good head start on the parts {I got it for Christmas},  so it will be my first one.  I'll find some place to float her when done.  for those who like large models........this one's for you.......at 33 inches long.......the admiral is still wondering where I'm going to display it

[Blackreed]

This boat is also of a great scale, lots of detail parts available.

I bet if you tried you could easily get Popeye himself as a pilot, maybe even Brutus and Olivoil for your gunners.

[popeye the sailor]

I've been looking for figures.........but what I've seen so far are way too cartoony.   I know a friend in Florida who is an avid collector of figures {Marvel,  DC, Batman.......you name it}.......I haven't asked him yet,  but I think he could find them for me.   I do have a project on the back burner.......I took some freeze frames of the Sinbad cartoon,  of the S.S. Olive Oyl.  one of these days........a pipe dream........one of many   

[Blackreed]

1/30th scale figures are somewhat common, they are also called 60mm, look up 1/30th scale navy and the figures will come right up.

1/35th scale is completely off the chart, that is 54mm, I think those figures would do you, but if you didn’t change out your guns the people would look like little kids.

Reminds me of a funny story, I once took a dog to a police station, the dogs handler looked like he was 12.

I’m surprised Dumas made that kit in 1/30th and not 1/35th, I guess it is actually a very popular kit.

 I also noticed that at Shapeways there are a lot of parts in the 1/30th scale.

[popeye the sailor]

yes....I'm looking into shapeways........some of the aftermarket looks very good.   mikes tubs are so sweet.........right down to the ammo  

[Old Collingwood]

How about these denis  - 

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/P8U5F56EQ/1-30-us-navy-sailor-pt-boat-set

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/5NSWQPZJN/1-30-us-navy-pt-boat-crew-set6-1

 

OC.

[popeye the sailor]

I think I saw them ...........if I do,  I'd go with the complete set........I bookmarked it     thank you!

[Old Collingwood]

3 hours ago, popeye the sailor said:

I think I saw them ...........if I do,  I'd go with the complete set........I bookmarked it     thank you!

My pleasure  Denis.

 

OC.

[popeye the sailor]

I got the green light to order the parts I need for the running hardware.  I'll  have to introduce the 'other' parts a little at a time   I started to look into the mufflers.......in my kit,  they are wood,  but in earlier kits,  they are vacuum -form.  I've thickened them up a bit more,  so I can round off the edges,  before adding the detail to them.  I should have more on it soon   

[popeye the sailor]

the ground shook.....some movement on the PT camp!  I had ordered the running hardware,  but not through Model Expo,  where I got the first running hardware set.   so far,  I've only ordered the running hardware......I've got to come up with a total for the other stuff...budget director's orders.  I got it on Tuesday........so opportune,  since I start my vacation...and the second round of shots on Friday.  I am a bit dumbfounded though......the first set has a metal tube strut.......this one has a plastic one.   ....ewww.....and it's that horrible plastic to boot! .......really a pain to clean off the flash {kind of the type of plastic that milk jugs are made from}.  

 

the rest of the parts are the same,  I'm relieved to say...I only hope the angle of the shaft tubes is the same.  I also got a pair of 30 mm three blade props,  which I selected from Amati....I went to ages of sail for this order.  Model Expo was out of the running hardware kit.

looking at these......I could easily have gone to 33 mm props....think they would translate to 1 3/4.  these I think are 1 3/8.....I'll see if they are big enough.

    if not,  I just get another pair {I'm sure I have a model or two that needs a prop     so......the first order of business is to mark off the location for the struts and rudder shafts...

the nuts for the screws are small......and would be a frustrating affair,  considering where I need to put them.  but with the aide of my mega tweezers,  it should make it a lot easier.

it's 12 inches long,  and will easily reach into the hull.   centering the struts,  the holes were marked out and drilled.  one of the screw holes missed where I had added the reinforcements.....so I added an additional piece.  got to wait till it dries now.

[Egilman]

Nice Bronze props brother, But I got's a stupid question....

 

You gonna run in scale mode, hydroplane mode or both? {chuckle}.... (never having built an RC boat in my entire life)

[popeye the sailor]

I played with the Agillis for a little while.......now its time for the nail biter.   the holes were enlarged for the screws and the struts were fastened in place...it wasn't too tough to do  

 

 

once tightened down,  I gave them a coat of white glue to keep them from backing off.  .......little chance of it,  but one can't be too careful    getting the angle of the shaft tube right was somewhat of a problem.......I inserted the tubes and marked out where the entrance holes were to be.   the angle was the real dilemma........had to make a few adjustments.  the two struts weren't at the same angle either.......this brought the holes starting before bulkhead #10.  this one needed to have a section cut out anyway......but I had forgotten about it.   that's OK though.......resorting to a hammer to drive in the tubes in the rest of the way,  cleared the obstacles in fine order!   this didn't upset the applecart too badly......I removed the broken piece of bulkhead,  and after the tubes were set in place,  two lengths of 1/8X1/8 basswood was cemented in to fill in the gap.  this didn't pose a strength issue,  since the chine struts carry most of the hull strength.......but again,  I may as well do it.

 the tubes were sealed with white glue

there's a bit of buggering that need to be filled in,  where they enter the hull.   I'll do that in the next session,  along with the rudders.

 

I was hoping to set them up and remove them for the resin coating.  but with all this........I think I'll just work around them     more to come soon 

 

 

[popeye the sailor]

neither.......it's a static model.   sad.........but true.   I haven't built an R/c either......but I have one in the stash    future build.........

Edited March 26, 2021 by popeye the sailor
typo

[Blackreed]

Looking great👍.

With the big 45% off sale at Model Expo, they must be out of everything.

[popeye the sailor]

likely........they recently opened up another branch that deals with kits that they bought from the general public.   folks who wanted to thin out their stashes must have taken advantage of this..........the email I got showed pictures of the shelves......amazed with what I saw!

 

I'm even more amazed with the differences between these two hardware kits.  my only deduction is that what I bought from Model Expo,  was old stock,  and the one I got from Ages of sail was newer stock.   the struts aren't the only issue.......there is one with the prop shafts too.   the props from Amati are good......they have the slot in the back for the shear pin {locking pin to arrest the prop and key it to the shaft}......I only had to enlarge the center hole slightly so they would fit onto the shafts.  the difference here are the nuts that secure the props to the shaft.......one is small and looks good,  while the other one is so big,  its an eyesore!  before I found this problem,  I filled in around the shaft tubes using a razor blade as a trough.

I'll sand it and apply more if needed.  the next thing was to drill the holes for the rudder tubes......I left them around 3/16 " out of the hull,  just in case {but I can still adjust them}.

I would have gone onto the rudders,  but then it hit me about the props........and the second problem presented itself......

 

if I wanted to make spinners for them.......it would be impossible.  I will see if I have a nut that small in one of my junk cans in the garage.......but wait!  I happen to have a Billing's prop shaft......perhaps it will still have the nut on it?!?!?  checking around......I found not only one....but two!  one of them I had cut down for some reason or another........the other one had the nut and the collar still on it!

of course,  the nut was a different thread pitch.....rats!  but...........then again,  this is to be a static model.......so it really doesn't need to be a full shaft.  I found the nut for the other shaft in the jar with the props and anchors { my inventory}.  these two nuts are the same,  and so I set it up again using the Billing shafts.......there are no holes for a sheer pin,  but I can drill one.....got to go!

 

 

[popeye the sailor]

I'm back.........almost late for the vaccine appointment   the admiral looked up and saw the time!   we were given a time,  but it didn't matter.......when we got there,  we got in line with several other people.   the end result of all this,  is we got our second shots.......Hurray!

 

where wuz I?????    the screw shafts.....yea!   swapped the props over to the other shafts and put 'em in place.

 

I put the plastic spacers on this time around.  I wasn't out of the woods yet........the rudders are problem No #3.   the shape of the rudder is off,  the shafts are different lengths,  and the slot to insert the rudder in the shaft,  is longer on one than the other.  the long one is slotted on both ends...for what reason,  I have no idea.

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''here we go again 

 

[lmagna]

Looking good Denis

Most of the issues you are running into are because you are installing RC running gear as scale. The cast strut is old school and the nylon more  resent. The rudders are strictly intended as RC as when building a running model you commonly need larger rudders to get the turning performance you need. Plus I think you bought two running sets so you got two rudders instead of one, again old issue and new. As you know the real boat had three props and rudders with 28" props. That would work out to 35.5mm at this scale or just under 1 1/2 inch. 

Edited March 26, 2021 by lmagna

[popeye the sailor]

I just placed the next order for this vessel at Shapeways.......I saw that they also list the struts,  associated parts and props as a set.  if I knew that back when........   I ordered the 50 cals......and I ordered the deck gun as well.......I liked the way Mike's came out    yea......I know Lou.  what I should do is round off the rudders so they would look more like the real ones {the ones I saw at Shapeways are}.  hopefully,  I can set up the rudders so they can move.....I will connect them so they move together.  I could have gone with the three prop/rudder set up,  but I was concerned with the apex of the keel for the center shaft.  I read in the instructions that when locating the 'single' shaft,  the keel was flattened,  to accept the strut.........I wasn't keen on drilling through the keel either.  so I settled on having just two props/rudders........close enough for me     I'm going to use the props too.......they are close enough.   I've done some work on the rudders.......I'll have something to show later  

[popeye the sailor]

...almost forgot..........the admiral and I feel fine after the second shot    no adverse reactions

[alross2]

Just as a reference, these are the actual rudders for an 80' ELCO.  This is from the ELCO parts catalog.

[popeye the sailor]

which catalog is that?   that is the general shape of the rudders from Shapeways.   as Lou pointed out,  these are R/C parts I'm working with.  as with any parts found in kits,  some require shaping and trimming.  I may shape them.

 

I have been able to pick at the PT boat.  the rudders don't match,  so I'll have to make a match to either one.  I have some sheet brass stock.  I have a copper sheet,  but it isn't thick enough,  nor ridged enough.  what I did find was some tin sheet........that was thick enough.

the hull was sanded around the tubes....just a little more and it will be good.

I still need to go over the rest of the hull,  before I do the resin coat......the weather is getting better and better....I'd rather do it in the garage.  the next step with the rudders,  was to solder  them on the shafts.   another defect I had to deal with,  was that the slots for the rudder weren't cut equally.  the solution was to measure how much of the rudder would fit into the shafts,  and notch the one for that particular shaft.  I think it was like a 3/16x3/16

square cut out of the corner.  soldered together,  they now look even.

luckily,  there is enough shaft to go the entire length of the tubes......I can do what I want to do.   fitted in place,  the spacing looks good.

 

 

the last picture had me concerned.........the starboard side rudder was a bit out of line with the prop.  there was a difference of about an 1/8th of an inch.   removing the tube,  I remeasured and marked where it was supposed to be.  this can be easily corrected.

the hole was redrilled........to fit the tubes,  I used sandpaper to ream out the holes.  this was done by wrapping sandpaper around a bamboo dowel,  secured in place with CA.  it was fitted in the drill and then passed through the hole....in and out........over and over,  until the tube fit,  tight enough to be firmly inserted.  it worked well for the first holes...........I guess I got too aggressive with the reaming,  and I found out how strong bamboo is,  before it began to twist.  I still got the job done though   

one beauty of a round hole,  is how easily it can be plugged.

so the tube will be refitted and properly sealed.  as for the prop shafts,  there were no holes for a shear pin.  for a static model,  this isn't important,  but I was able to drill them anyway.

I located them so there won't be too many threads jutting out from shafts.  inside the hull,  the linkage levers for the rudders were sync together,  and a connection rood was fashioned for them.  so far,  I haven't found an allen wrench that fits the jam screws....I know I have some that are THAT small...I just have to find them {I'm sure they are in a bag somewhere in the garage}.

more to come  

[popeye the sailor]

.........two tool boxes....full of tools.......and no sign of an allen wrench that small!  so I guess the next step would be to visit the local hardware store and see what they got.  I would have been happy to see a 1/4 socket set........or a collection of bits,  that went down that small.  I ended up with a standard and metric combo set.

1.5 mm to 10 mm metric & 0.05 to 3/8 standard.........fingers crossed that one will do the job.   this set was around $16.00.   I do have a 1.5 mm allen wrench,  but it fits sloppy and slips {likely due to wear}.  the 0.05 allen standard is odd.........why not do it in 1/32,  or even 1/64ths?  the actual size of these set screws turned out to be 1/16,  and I was very happy to see there was one in the set.

I also shaped the rudders......not exact,  but I like the way they came out.

I started to fill in some of the seams and joints and do some more sanding.  I also did more sanding on the deck surface,  in prep to lay the deck platform.  I'm beginning to think I should have it in place before I do the resin .......the gap line around the gunwales.  the excess along the stern was also removed,  since it seemed to offset the deck platform forward,  jutting it over the bow.  sanding it flush with the frame,  the platform was dry fitted,  and it was seen that the platforms now jutted over the stern lip.  adding a 1/8th strip connecting the gunwale sides,  cured the overhang perfectly.

to clean up the rest,  I added a strip that joins the clamps too.

side profile of the deck line......

more to come  

 

[lmagna]

Nice job on the rudders Denis I bet that getting them the same size was fun.