USS Constitution by Avi - BlueJacket Shipcrafters - 1:96

[Gregory]

This won't help now but I think your problem is the overlap. 

 

I realize you were trying to model actual practice, but I don't think the overlap would be visible at scale. 

You may  have to resign yourself to living with the results of the raised edges..

[Avi]

It probably is. Some don’t overlap, which is why it’s a good thing I painted the planks with that good Vallejo copper paint (real flakes in it). Either way, the question is, what can I do to help with it. 

[MrBlueJacket]

With overlapped plates, there's not much to protect the edges. Be careful handling the hull, and when the model is finished and in a case, then no-one will be able to touch or brush against it.

 

butt joining the plates reduces, but does not eliminate the problem.

 

Nic

[Avi]

Hi Nic, good to have you on here. 😃 

 

Is there anything that will act as a sealed layer, like a sheath, over the whole thing? I was hoping a few layers of polyurethane varnish would do it (as implied in the manual), but no such luck. 

[MrBlueJacket]

Don't know. It would have to be thick, like clear flex-seal, but I think it would look terrible.

 

Nic

[Brian Falke]

Avi, my only recommendation would be to do all you can to ensure the corners are pressed down.  I too have given it thought on how to achieve a "smooth" surface with the platting and feel that pressing using a mini-roller would be my best option.  Here is what I am referring to

 

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-nanjTCMS645/p_15410005/Dynamat-10005-Roller.html?XVINQ=GZ0&XVVer=23B&awcr=628226750370&awdv=c&awnw=g&awug=9011556&awkw=pla-338049137464&awmt=&awat=pla&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAmsurBhBvEiwA6e-WPCWYGGJauK5mjhW1Q49RQkdvHo2oMrQxcw7LQwMYGI3-J_hrBvPk9RoCTQQQAvD_BwE

 

With a slight bit of pressure, you should be able to get the corners pressed down.

 

Brian

[GGibson]

2 hours ago, Brian Falke said:

...using a mini-roller would be my best option.  Here is what I am referring to

 

Ahhh, great!  Another modeling tool that I must have, but may never use... <shrug> 🤣

[Bill Morrison]

On 12/4/2023 at 10:57 AM, Avi said:

Two coats of wax on all of the copper - about 10 plates needed to be reinforced or remove and recemented - but waxing is done. Next is varnish. I’m sure the wax provides more than enough protection, but the sheer “pointiness” and “edginess” of the plates means something is going to get stuck on an edge or corner and yank a plate off, or bend it, no matter how long it’s been there. A few coats of varnish will provide a thin layer of sealant, like a tight raincoat or wetsuit, on the whole thing. 

Avi.

 

Have you seen the videos on coppering a ship on YouTube?

 

Bill

 

[Avi]

19 hours ago, Bill Morrison said:

Avi.

 

Have you seen the videos on coppering a ship on YouTube?

 

Bill

 

Yup. Long time ago though. I started copppering early this year. 
 

Is there something specific to which you refer?

[Avi]

23 hours ago, Brian Falke said:

Avi, my only recommendation would be to do all you can to ensure the corners are pressed down.  I too have given it thought on how to achieve a "smooth" surface with the platting and feel that pressing using a mini-roller would be my best option.  Here is what I am referring to

 

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-nanjTCMS645/p_15410005/Dynamat-10005-Roller.html?XVINQ=GZ0&XVVer=23B&awcr=628226750370&awdv=c&awnw=g&awug=9011556&awkw=pla-338049137464&awmt=&awat=pla&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAmsurBhBvEiwA6e-WPCWYGGJauK5mjhW1Q49RQkdvHo2oMrQxcw7LQwMYGI3-J_hrBvPk9RoCTQQQAvD_BwE

 

With a slight bit of pressure, you should be able to get the corners pressed down.

 

Brian

Dang that is great! I’ll pick one up. Thanks!

[Bill Morrison]

Avi,

 

There is nothing in particular. There are so many videos that are helpful.  They are great!

 

Bill

[Avi]

Hard to believe it has been two months since I posted. Life has been a wee bit busy here. 
 

Before I start on the gundeck, I’m going to place the gudgeons and pintles (my phone keeps trying to auto correct those 😂)

 

The book recommends not shipping the rudder permanently yet, but to wait until some of the harder work on decks and masts is done, since the rudder is fragile, which makes sense. 
 

I ran I into two issues. 
 

First, the gudgeons and pintles are of that metal. Should they be finished or painted in some way?

 

Second, I don’t understand how you attach the rudder to the sternpost, or more correctly, the pintles to the gudgeons. There are holes in the pintles, which the guide suggest running a stiff wire through for alignment. But the gudgeons have more a triangle than a post on them. It isn’t something you can set the holes from the pintles onto. I could put the gudgeons in with them facing down, and then just glue the pintles to the gudgeons, but then it would have no motion. I guess I also could carefully trim down the triangles to a post with a file? Not sure. 
 

Pictures attached. 

Edited February 24 by Avi

[ERS Rich]

Yes, seems like file down the “triangle” to a round pin, looks to me that the triangle was formed by a bit of flash from the casting process…..

[Avi]

Thanks @ERS Rich; did you paint them?

[Avi]

One issue down, thanks to @ERS Rich

 

I filed the triangles down to more of a post, then used fine drill bits to smooth out the bores on the pintles. They all go in smoothly now. 😃 

 

Now to decide about how to finish them before mounting. 

[ERS Rich]

Yes Avi, I can’t remember exactly how I prepped the metal before painting.  Just tool a look for my painting notebook and can’t find it.

 

My rudder is static.

 

I did paint the hull with Tamiya Dark Copper acrylic, and my build log says the wood was prepped with Varethsne Ipswich pine stain.  I like priming with stain, as it seals the wood fibers but doesn’t completely fill the grain.  It takes acrylic well and leaves the wood grain, so the surface doesn’t appear plastic.  

 

I’m thinking about picking up the Constitution this fall.  Working on two other square rig hulls at the moment, the thought is masting and rigging all three simultaneously.

 

I’ve also been experimenting with Mr Metal primer.  Brush applied as I don’t want to deal with the spray fumes.  It takes acrylic well.

 

 

[JSGerson]

Have you thought about the color you're going to paint them. Like ER Rich, mine are copper color. His is painted, mine are made of actual copper. If you look at the ship in dry dock (see my log), the gudgeons and pintles are the same color as the rudder underneath them. Some builders have made them all black. the choice is yours.

 

Jon

Edited February 24 by JSGerson

[ERS Rich]

May copper the hull, maybe, cost makes me think twice.  Have Caldercraft Snake, came with the plates, probably build that first…..

[Avi]

I finished coppering the hull and rudder. Ok so I can paint them the copper colour, or black for contrast. Just my choice? I’ll mull it over. 
 

Do I need some layer on this Britannia metal before the paint? Or primer? Or just a few layers of paint?

[ERS Rich]

Strictly speaking best to prime metal, however I don’t always…..

[Avi]

Ok I primed them and will paint soon. 

Never a boring moment. Despite the promises of the book, the gudgeons are too narrow to fit over the coppered sternpost and hull, and same for the pintles over the coppered rudder. Oops. I’m not quite sure what to do here. The metal is soft, so I try to shape it, but I’m more concerned I’ll snap the pieces off. 
 

 

[Gregory]

Do the plans show a profile for the rudder?

Maybe there should be some more taper on the forward edge.

[JSGerson]

If you look at Khauptfuehrer's Bluejacket build log, he states:

 

"There is a pitfall concerning the rudder installation.  The rudder is made from 5/32" stock.  If your kit is like mine, you will have gudgeons and pintles whose interior dimension is 1/8".  The folks at Bluejacket swear up and down that the dimension is 5/32" but, trust me, it is 1/8".  Bending these to suit is difficult and yields less than satisfactory results.  Bluejacket also sells gudgeons and pintles with a 1/4" inner measurement.  These are easy to adapt and work well.  Drops of glue are used to simulate bolt heads I recommend that you buy 1/4" gudgeons and pintles.  They will bend easily to suit, and you will be fine."

 

This might be a solution to your problem.

 

Jon

Edited February 26 by JSGerson

[Avi]

3 hours ago, Gregory said:

Do the plans show a profile for the rudder?

Maybe there should be some more taper on the forward edge.

No they don’t. Nor does the book say anything. 

[Avi]

24 minutes ago, JSGerson said:

If you look at Khauptfuehrer's Bluejacket build log, he states:

 

"There is a pitfall concerning the rudder installation.  The rudder is made from 5/32" stock.  If your kit is like mine, you will have gudgeons and pintles whose interior dimension is 1/8".  The folks at Bluejacket swear up and down that the dimension is 5/32" but, trust me, it is 1/8".  Bending these to suit is difficult and yields less than satisfactory results.  Bluejacket also sells gudgeons and pintles with a 1/4" inner measurement.  These are easy to adapt and work well.  Drops of glue are used to simulate bolt heads I recommend that you buy 1/4" gudgeons and pintles.  They will bend easily to suit, and you will be fine."

 

This might to a solution to your problem.

 

Jon

I probably read that at some point or another, as I read every build log that might help. I must have forgotten. I’ll just have to get those. Thanks @JSGerson
 

if anyone comes across this in the future, here’s the link https://www.bluejacketinc.com/shop/fittings/under-water/gudgeons-and-pintles/f0852-1-4-to-fit-rudder-thickness/

item F0852

Edited February 26 by Avi

[Gregory]

12 minutes ago, Avi said:

No they don’t. Nor does the book say anything. 

The forward edges should definitely be rounded, otherwise the movement would be highly restricted. 

[Avi]

1 minute ago, Gregory said:

The forward edges should definitely be rounded, otherwise the movement would be highly restricted. 

That’s a fair point, unless there were a large enough gap between rudder and sternpost, which would not be great for the fluid mechanics. 
 

The picture from the museum shows it. 
 

Even rounding it won’t help much, without some serious tapering. Those gudgeons and pintles are ⅛”, the wood stock for the rudder is 5/32”, add the copper and it’s up to 7/32”.

 

I’m somewhat perturbed that the guide didn’t say anything about rounding. It’s obvious once someone smart like @Gregory says it, but not before that 🤦‍♂️ 

 

I would like to get that rounding in anyways. But even if I do, I need gudgeons and pintles with wider spacing in the gap.
 

I’ll have to get from bluejacket. 
 

As for the rounding, I could remove the leading edge copper plates, and then either add material or sand it down. 
 

Anyone remember how to remove contact cement? 😁 

[Gregory]

How hard would it be to make another rudder?

[JSGerson]

Rudder plan from the US Navy

[Avi]

49 minutes ago, Gregory said:

How hard would it be to make another rudder?

Not terribly so, but I do have this one. Remove maybe 15-20 copper plates and I can shape it.