lraymo Posted August 21, 2021 Author Share #121 Posted August 21, 2021 Based on all your feedback, I've redone the Lashing and Lacing, and tried to round off the spar. Front and back now look alike, and seem to match the picture in the instructions! FRONT OF SAIL: BACK OF SAIL: Tigersteve, Cathead, PRS and 3 others 6 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted August 21, 2021 Share #122 Posted August 21, 2021 By George, I think you've got it! Well done. Cathead, Jack12477, Keith Black and 2 others 4 1 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted August 24, 2021 Share #123 Posted August 24, 2021 Lynn, very nice. Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted August 26, 2021 Author Share #124 Posted August 26, 2021 This has been quite a learning experience. I'm getting close to finishing, and I want to say thanks for everyone's help and encouragement along the way. I still have a bit more to do, but its getting there. I'm thinking about what to do next. When I started this adventure, I was "inspired" after seeing a model of the "Cutty Sark". I love the look of the 3-masted schooner and its lines are beautiful. But after these two beginner models, I realize I am no where near the skill level it would take to make one of those schooners. The kit alone costs over $500! Yikes! I can barely manage these $49 kits! So I'm wondering if I have the patience and commitment to this hobby to continue what looks like it will take years of practice and many more models of increasing complexity before I can attempt the schooner. Any thoughts appreciated. I'm just in a pensive mood today, and again, thanks. This is an incredible forum! yvesvidal, Cathead, Keith Black and 3 others 6 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryland Craze Posted August 26, 2021 Share #125 Posted August 26, 2021 Lynn, you are making good progress on your Pram. For your next model, you could build the Model Shipways Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack, which is the third kit in the series of progressive builds. Another option would be the Fifie ‘Lady Eleanor’ or the Zulu ‘Lady Isabella’ kits from Vanguard Models. Here is a link to the Vanguard site: https://vanguardmodels.co.uk/product-category/vanguard-model-kits/ Tigersteve, lraymo, Keith Black and 1 other 4 Quote Ryland Member - Hampton Roads Ship Model Society - Ship Model Society of New Jersey - Nautical Research Guild Current Build - Armed Virginia Sloop, 18th Century Longboat Completed Build - Medway Longboat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted August 26, 2021 Share #126 Posted August 26, 2021 Lynn, the Pram looks really good. I don't know who's having more fun, us watching you progress or you watching yourself. Bit of both I'm sure. Ryland Craze, lraymo and Tigersteve 2 1 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigersteve Posted August 26, 2021 Share #127 Posted August 26, 2021 Lynn- I have to agree with Ryland’s recommendation. Model Shipways Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack. It looks like you will get some needed planking practice on this model and you have many different finishing options later in the project. It’s fairly inexpensive and will take quite a bit of time to complete, which is the way it should be. You will know when you are ready for a more complex project. No need to spend hundreds on a kit especially at this moment. Hope this helps. Steve lraymo, Keith Black and Ryland Craze 3 Quote Current: Mayflower- Model Shipways Completed: Lowell Grand Banks Dory- Model Shipways English Pinnace- Model Shipways 18th Century Longboat- Model Shipways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted August 27, 2021 Author Share #128 Posted August 27, 2021 Thanks for the suggestions... and yes, I am having fun at this! One question. The Muscongus Bay recommends getting the "Fair-A-Frame". I don't know what that is, and when I read about it, it seems its more for "plank-on-bulkhead". But the Muscongus is plank-on-frame, so I'm wondering how it would work, and if I really need it. I'm just not sure how I would use it. Thoughts? And i looked at the Vanguard models. They look interesting too. I might have to do one of those after the Muscongus Bay! Ryland Craze and Keith Black 2 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack12477 Posted August 27, 2021 Share #129 Posted August 27, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, lraymo said: The Muscongus Bay recommends getting the "Fair-A-Frame Lynn, don't waste your money. I bought it long time ago. It's not easy to assemble and get everything aligned right, once assembled It's difficult and cumbersome to use. Go to Lowes or Home Depot and pickup a small Carpenter's square. It's a triangular shaped tool . Lee Valley Tools also offers a Carpenter's square that is a mere 1 inch in length. It looks like a toy but is perfect for small models (look under Miniature Tools). You can also build your own keel clamp. I used the Fair-a-Frame once and set it aside. It's gathering dust somewhere. Some ideas : Lee Valley Clamping Squares Carpenter's square aka Rafter Square Lee Valley miniature Carpenter's square Small try square Edited August 27, 2021 by Jack12477 Tigersteve, Keith Black, Ryland Craze and 2 others 5 Quote Jack "No one is as smart as all of us" - Is ón cheann a thagann an cheird The craft comes from the head --------------------------------------------- Current build: US Constellation Non-ship builds: USCG UH-65A Dolphin M16 Multi-gun motor carriage diorama M4A3 Sherman Tanks dioramas 1936-1939 Mercedes Benz 540K 1934 Rolls-Royce Phantom II JSDF Light Armor Vehicle Figures: The Last Bridge: Raider Reaper Edge of Universe: Ianis The Last Bridge: Vadim with cart Completed build log(s): 18th Century Longboat , Marie Jeanne, Willie L Bennett 1888 50 ft Gaff-rigged Ice Yacht Scratch Build The Sullivans (DD 537) Liberty Ship SS John W Brown USS England (DE 635), Artesania Latina Titanic Lifeboat Gallery: Swift , Armed Virginia Sloop, Santisima Trinidad Captain's Launch , 18th Century Longboat , Marie Jeanne Other: Rhinebeck Aerodrome Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted August 27, 2021 Author Share #130 Posted August 27, 2021 3 hours ago, Jack12477 said: It's gathering dust somewhere. Thanks for the feedback regarding the Fair-A-Frame. I'm definitely NOT going to be getting it! It's great to have this forum to turn to when in doubt! Keith Black and Ryland Craze 2 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted August 28, 2021 Author Share #131 Posted August 28, 2021 On 8/26/2021 at 6:40 PM, Keith Black said: I don't know who's having more fun, us watching you progress or you watching yourself. Well, I'm not having fun today! but you all may be laughing at my current troubles! I tried to put the whole thing together, excited that I was almost done with this. But in looking at the picture below, the discerning eye will notice that the Halyard line is completely disconnected and serving no useful purpose! Mostly because the mast is not vertical, which throws everything off. When I tried to raise the sail the bottom left was dragging the boat bottom, and the sail was skewed. Using a little bit of CA, I glued the gaff to the mast (completely wrong!) just to see if I could place the sail in the correct position to get an idea of what is was supposed to look like, and to try to somehow salvage what I've already done. However, after realizing there are still multiple problems (for instance, there's not enough room between the boom and the traveler line), I believe I'm going to have to take the rigging apart, re-do the mast to be vertical, and try again. Ugh. But I have enough rigging line to do it over, so I will forge ahead. I am happy with how the ropes around the front and back stays turned out, and I like how the block turned out. But I will need to re-do all the rigging. Trying again is fun, right? Things I like: Back stay, Front stay, Block Full view of Troubled Pram! (hopefully will be fixed when I re-do the mast!) Keith Black, Tigersteve, Ryland Craze and 2 others 5 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigersteve Posted August 28, 2021 Share #132 Posted August 28, 2021 Well, if you got it on the first try that would not be normal! Lol You’ve already learned that the redo will always be better. Steve druxey, Keith Black and lraymo 1 2 Quote Current: Mayflower- Model Shipways Completed: Lowell Grand Banks Dory- Model Shipways English Pinnace- Model Shipways 18th Century Longboat- Model Shipways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkiBee Posted August 28, 2021 Share #133 Posted August 28, 2021 (edited) First, I’m a beginner too and you’re doing great on this build. What’s the old saying, “we learn from our mistakes.” Instead of the Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack by Model Shipways look at the Model Shipways 18th Century Long Boat. I built the Dory and Pram like you did, and then I built the Long Boat since the Lobster Smack wasn’t available. I learned a lot from the Long Boat and the instructions were SO much better than the Lobster Smack or the Pram. The Long Boat has a great schematic that showed great details. The planking on the Long Boat was better for a beginner than the Lobster Smack. The Lobster Smack planking has a tricky aft end due to the complex curves and bends. So far my two favorite builds are the Long Boat and Dory. I’m finishing up the Lobster Smack now and it’s my least favorite of the four. I’ve learned a lot and some past learning was reinforced by the Lobster Smack. Take a look at the Model Shipways Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack build logs that exist on this Web site before you choose your next build. Edited August 28, 2021 by SkiBee druxey, lraymo and Keith Black 3 Quote Current Projects: Completed Projects: Armed Virginia Sloop - Model Shipways - 1:96 Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack - Model Shipways - 1:24 Phantom New York Pilot Boat - Model Shipways - 1:96 18th Century Long Boat - Model Shipways - 1:48 Norwegian Sailing Pram - Model Shipways - 1:12 Lowell Grand Banks Dory - Model Shipways - 1:24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigersteve Posted August 28, 2021 Share #134 Posted August 28, 2021 Longboat is a great kit with great instructions, but I have to disagree with that as your next choice. The scale and the planking make it very challenging and it could be frustrating. You have many choices though. Message me if you want specifics. Steve lraymo, Keith Black and Ryland Craze 3 Quote Current: Mayflower- Model Shipways Completed: Lowell Grand Banks Dory- Model Shipways English Pinnace- Model Shipways 18th Century Longboat- Model Shipways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted August 28, 2021 Share #135 Posted August 28, 2021 Steve has it almost right: The re-do is (nearly) always better! lraymo, Keith Black and Tigersteve 3 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted August 28, 2021 Author Share #136 Posted August 28, 2021 I've considered both the Longboat and the Muscongus Bay. I really like the "look" of a ship with rigging and masts but no sails. What do you guys think of the "US Revenue Cutter, BlueJacket wooden model ship K1106A" US Revenue Cutter, BlueJacket wooden model ship K1106A (agesofsail.com) Is this too complex for me? I like the "look" of it, but I have no idea how complex this kit is, or if I have the needed skillset to accomplish this build. Your thoughts? (Of course, I'm jumping way ahead of myself. I'm still struggling with trying to get ONE mast installed vertically on the Pram!) Keith Black and Cathead 2 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigersteve Posted August 28, 2021 Share #137 Posted August 28, 2021 (edited) Lynn, it does not look too complex for you but it seems expensive for what you are getting in that kit. Looks like a solid hull also, which comes with its own challenges. Looking for cost effective options for you. Another option is the Model Shipways Pilot Boat. Chuck Passaro has written a great practicum to supplement the instructions. https://modelexpo-online.com/Model-Shipways-PHANTOM-NY-PILOT-BOAT-196-SCALE_p_1017.html Edited August 28, 2021 by Tigersteve lraymo and Keith Black 2 Quote Current: Mayflower- Model Shipways Completed: Lowell Grand Banks Dory- Model Shipways English Pinnace- Model Shipways 18th Century Longboat- Model Shipways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted August 28, 2021 Share #138 Posted August 28, 2021 Lynn, "patience is bitter, but it's fruit is sweet". Hang in there, you'll get it. lraymo, Cathead and Tigersteve 3 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted August 29, 2021 Author Share #139 Posted August 29, 2021 (edited) Keith, I think I will have LOTS of sweet fruit after all the work on this Pram! Teehee! Steve, I really like the "look" of the Pilot Boat, and its a much better price! But where can I find the practicum? I searched this site, but couldn't find anything from him on the Pilot Boat, although I found numerous other postings/writings/blogs of his. (Admittedly, I am not very adept at finding things online!) (Update - I just realized the "practicum" pdf's are included with the Instructions in the kit!) Starting over with the mast. Vertical is better now! Edited August 29, 2021 by lraymo Tigersteve, Keith Black and Ryland Craze 3 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted August 31, 2021 Author Share #140 Posted August 31, 2021 It's DONE! After a little flurry of work to re-do the rigging, it's all come together, and its done! Wheeeee! Happy that it's finished, but a little sad too, as i've enjoyed doing it and communicating with you all as I've gone thru this process. Thanks to everyone for the likes, comments, and the encouragement. You kept me going! Special thanks and a shout-out to: @Keith Black - your kind words and humor were a highlight! @druxey - thanks for all the encouragement! @Tigersteve - thanks for the recommendation - the Model Shipways Phantom is on its way and will be my next build! @Cathead appreciated your words of wisdom regarding finishes and other build advice! And thanks to many others who have commented and watched my progress. It has been very much appreciated! I've learned so much, and I can see all the flaws in this build, but I am happy with it, and will take what I've learned into the next project! (and the dog has been helping me out too ) Keith Black, dvm27, Tigersteve and 5 others 8 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryland Craze Posted August 31, 2021 Share #141 Posted August 31, 2021 Congratulations Lynn on finishing your Pram. It is a great looking model and you should be proud of the work you have done. It is really nice to watch you improve your skills with the two boats you have completed. I am looking forward to seeing your build of the Phantom. I have seen some really nice builds of this kit using Chuck's practicum. Tigersteve, Keith Black and lraymo 2 1 Quote Ryland Member - Hampton Roads Ship Model Society - Ship Model Society of New Jersey - Nautical Research Guild Current Build - Armed Virginia Sloop, 18th Century Longboat Completed Build - Medway Longboat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted August 31, 2021 Share #142 Posted August 31, 2021 Lynn, the little Pram turned out neat as a pin. I look forward to your Phantom build. One tool you need to start saving your money for is a cordless drill if you don't already have one. Not so much for drilling holes but to use as a poor man's lathe. As you ratchet up the degree of model difficulty, having a drill/lathe will become essential. It would be nice for you to get one fairly soon so you could start practicing and learning what you can and can not do with one. I have a Craftsman that has served me well though I've just about worn out the bearings. I'm sure you can get many brand recommendations from our fellow members. lraymo and Cathead 1 1 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted August 31, 2021 Share #143 Posted August 31, 2021 Congratulations and well done! Every model is a learning experience. Every one of us sees flaws in our work and vows to do better on the next model. Onward and up! Enjoy your next build. lraymo, Keith Black, Tigersteve and 1 other 3 1 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigersteve Posted August 31, 2021 Share #144 Posted August 31, 2021 Congratulations on completing your second model. Looking forward to following your next build. Steve Keith Black, lraymo and Ryland Craze 2 1 Quote Current: Mayflower- Model Shipways Completed: Lowell Grand Banks Dory- Model Shipways English Pinnace- Model Shipways 18th Century Longboat- Model Shipways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathead Posted September 1, 2021 Share #145 Posted September 1, 2021 Fantastic! It’s been a pleasure following along. I think you’ll quite enjoy where this hobby takes you as you keep delving deeper. lraymo, Ryland Craze and Keith Black 2 1 Quote Eric Current builds: scratchbuilt Missouri River steamboat Peerless (1893); 1:1 scale timber-framed outdoor kitchen Nautical builds (kits): USS Cairo; NRG capstan project; NRG half-hull; Viking longship; US revenue cutter; 18th century longboat; Bounty launch Missouri River craft (scratchbuilt): 1853 Missouri River steamboat Arabia; 1865 steamboat Bertrand; Lewis & Clark barge; keelboat; 1876 steamboat Far West Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Jarman Posted September 1, 2021 Share #146 Posted September 1, 2021 Well done, its been nice to follow your build. Looking forward to seeing your next kit build. Paul Ryland Craze, Keith Black and lraymo 2 1 Quote In work: -queen-mary-2 Finished: rms-titanic-1912 Finished: king-of-the-Mississippi Finished: Sanson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted September 1, 2021 Author Share #147 Posted September 1, 2021 On 8/31/2021 at 2:50 PM, Keith Black said: start saving your money for is a cordless drill I bought a dremel rotary tool (with a flexible shaft extension), but I haven't used it yet. Would it serve a similar purpose as the cordless drill? Keith Black and Ryland Craze 2 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigersteve Posted September 1, 2021 Share #148 Posted September 1, 2021 That should work fine. Steve Keith Black, lraymo and Ryland Craze 3 Quote Current: Mayflower- Model Shipways Completed: Lowell Grand Banks Dory- Model Shipways English Pinnace- Model Shipways 18th Century Longboat- Model Shipways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted September 1, 2021 Share #149 Posted September 1, 2021 Lynn, I don't think a would work for turning masts and spars. It might work for turning small items but I'm not sure how robust the bearings are in a Dremel verses a variable speed cordless drill. When turning masts and spars one applies a fair amount of pressure with either sandpaper or a jewelers file. Steve, the collet on my Dremel is pretty small, am I missing something? lraymo 1 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigersteve Posted September 1, 2021 Share #150 Posted September 1, 2021 Yes, agreed. A drill will be necessary, but I don’t think she will need it for quite some time into her next project. Keith Black, Ryland Craze and lraymo 3 Quote Current: Mayflower- Model Shipways Completed: Lowell Grand Banks Dory- Model Shipways English Pinnace- Model Shipways 18th Century Longboat- Model Shipways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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