Phantom by lraymo - Model Shipways - 1:96 scale - New York Pilot Boat

[lraymo]

Starting my 3rd model!  I know I'll have LOTS of questions for the forum about this one, but I'm excited to begin!  First step, check out the kit contents and do a complete inventory.  So far, so good!

 

[lraymo]

I knew I'd have questions right away!  So the hull measures about 1/8" too long (as noted in the instructions).  But the instructions tell me to remove this extra 1/8" from the stern?  When I put it up against the templates, it looks like I should remove this extra wood from the KEEL, not the stern.

Is this correct?  Should i remove the excess from the KEEL, instead of the stern?   

 

It seems reasonable to trim the KEEL to match the template.  But want to ask you all if this is correct?

[SkiBee]

@lraymo  Mine looked like yours, recommend that you butt the aft template to the keel to guide what has to be removed.  I had to sand the area at the top of the stern where it meets the transom first to guide what I removed from the aft end of the stern.

Then I reduced the aft to match the schematic.  Make sure you flatten the keel before you remove any other material from the hull.

[Keith Black]

Lynn, I like your new digs. Working on number three, I've reserved a chair and look forward to watching this build develop. . 

[Tigersteve]

I’m in. 
Steve

[lraymo]

Thanks Skibee!  Hi again, Keith & Steve!  This might be a slow build, since I have other things to attend to, but I wanted to get started, and I appreciate the company as I start on yet another huge learning curve!

[SkiBee]

@lraymo I forgot to mention that I currently building the Phantom too and started a build log. I’m done shaping the hull and have it primed.

[Ryland Craze]

Lynn, I am glad to see you step up to a more difficult build.  You will do just fine, especially with all of the support that you will receive from the members here.  I tagged your title for your Phantom and I see that there are many excellent build logs for this kit.  It looks like Model Shipways has replaced the old instructions with a newer guide to building this model that was written by Chuck Passaro.  His guide is a big improvement over the old kit instructions.

 

I look forward to following your build.

[Cathead]

Following you over from your last build as well. I haven't built this kit but it seems most reasonable to follow the template.

 

I also wonder if you're being confused by terminology. The word "keel" refers specifically to the timber along the bottom of the vessel; it has no vertical component. The part that doesn't match your template runs along what would be the sternpost (if this were a framed model), the structural piece rising up from the keel toward the transom. See the first diagram here for a good illustration of what the framed pieces would look like in this area, if the terminology remains confusing.

 

So the directions do make sense in that you appear to need to remove material from the stern (not the keel), especially where the sternpost meets the transom (again thinking of where the real framing would be). 

[Keith Black]

CH, excellent link. 

[lraymo]

Thanks everyone, for all the information.  I see that I had completely forgotten terms I learned in the first two builds!  Of course, the instructions make much more sense, now that I know what they are talking about!  My bad... I'm going to go back and  relearn the terms before proceeding.  (Thanks for your patience with me!)   And Cathead, I totally agree with Keith, its an excellent diagram!

[lraymo]

Very slow going, as I have too many other commitments going on!  but I am making some tiny progress.  Created a ship holder out of a trimmed down dish holder and some pipe insulation.  Also tried out my new dremel tool to shape some of the hull, sanded off too much and made some gouges, and filled in alot with wood putty.   Waiting for everything to dry so that I can sand it smooth, and probably will call it "good" since the overall shape looks ok to me.  Then I'll carve in the "step" mentioned on page 3.   (Can't believe I've only made it to page 3, but clearly this will keep me busy for weeks & months to come, so that's a good thing!)

 

[SkiBee]

@lraymo I also called it good enough on the hull shape, it looked good to me even though the two sides are not symmetrical.  You can't tell when just looking at it.

[Keith Black]

43 minutes ago, lraymo said:

Created a ship holder out of a trimmed down dish holder

 Lynn, you know you've gone over to the dark side when you start cutting up the furniture to make stuff for your model.  In all seriousness, the hull looks good. It's real easy to get carried away with a Dremel. You need to sneak up on the line, don't try to remove all the excess at once. 

[lraymo]

Creating my own tools... to draw the carving line for the step.  Using a very precise method of scotch tape and a pen, I was able to scribe a line 1/8" below the top of the bulwarks.  (I'm sure there are tools I could buy to accomplish this!)

Now  I'm off to begin carving (gulp!)

[SkiBee]

Great idea

[lraymo]

Starting to carve the step.  Realizing I'm not very good at carving, but feeling ok about it, since I've never done this!  Just finished the initial pass on one side.  I can see there will be LOTS of sanding and touch-up to make this look ok, but at least I've started.  Much more work to do on the step, but for now, I'm off to play pickleball!

[Keith Black]

 Lynn, great start on the step. I thought you bought some jewelers files? This would be a great opportunity to use a flat jewelers file to dress the outside edge and clean up the inside flat. Using sandpaper is going to round the edge. 

[lraymo]

Hi Keith.  I bought this "key file" set.  Are these considered jewelers files?  I agree, sandpaper is going to be tough to get this done right!

[Bill Morrison]

On 9/25/2021 at 1:31 PM, Cathead said:

Following you over from your last build as well. I haven't built this kit but it seems most reasonable to follow the template.

 

I also wonder if you're being confused by terminology. The word "keel" refers specifically to the timber along the bottom of the vessel; it has no vertical component. The part that doesn't match your template runs along what would be the sternpost (if this were a framed model), the structural piece rising up from the keel toward the transom. See the first diagram here for a good illustration of what the framed pieces would look like in this area, if the terminology remains confusing.

 

So the directions do make sense in that you appear to need to remove material from the stern (not the keel), especially where the sternpost meets the transom (again thinking of where the real framing would be). 

I remember building  this model back in the 1980s, having to remove from the stern and transom.  Low and behold, it worked! It became a fun build!

[Keith Black]

 Lynn, those look too big for dressing that edge. Here is a photo of needle/jewelers files. They're small and don't have handles so you can get in close to the work.

 

\

This is the link to the above for 5.5 inches in length and 2 cut (two rows of teeth) I've never ordered from these folks. 

 

https://www.msdiscounttool.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=3437_3523_4475_4514_4839_4528&products_id=118929

[Bob Cleek]

I haven't read Chuck's instructions, which may address this issue, but, just as a suggestion, you may want to consider now how you will be mounting the hull when the model is completed. If you are planning to mount it with a couple of lengths of brass rod or on turned stanchions, etc., you may want to drill the mounting holes in the bottom of the hull now before you thin the bulwarks. Drilling mounting holes is sort of "rough stuff" major surgery and it gets really difficult to do if there's anything breakable on the hull. Don't ask me how I know this!  I can think of three times that I got ahead of myself and finished a model and then realized I hadn't drilled the mounting holes. I had to build custom-fit cradles to hold the models while I drilled up from the bottom with a jig to keep my drill bit plumb!  

[lraymo]

Thanks Keith, I will order some of these.

And thanks Bob, that's a really good suggestion!  (I can see how I will need to do this!)

[lraymo]

My new needle files arrived.  I am not really sure how to use them, and carving the step is very rough... not sure how to get the smooth, finished surfaces I see in other posts.  But this is just the first pass. I'll try to use the files to smooth it out... and may try some wood filler to create a smoother finish!

 

 

[Keith Black]

 Lynn, that's a pretty tight closeup. I'm not sure filler is going to do a lot as you're almost there. 

 

  The needle file in the photo that's almost in the middle of the package, 6th up from the bottom and 5th down from the top is the file I'd use.

 

 Holding the file length wise at the stern and parallel with the hull, set the edge of the file on the edge of the step and with the flat of the file against the hull with gentle pressure move the file forward only. do not go back and forth as this might cause unevenness of material removed. This is kinda like doing your nails with a emery board. The pressure needs to be more toward the hull rather than the edge. Because the edge of the file also has teeth you're going to be dressing both surfaces at once. If you're not sure you're removing material, place a black piece of paper or cloth under the hull where you can see how much material is being removed with each pass. 

 

 A good trick to use if the step is going to be painted, you can apply a 'trace coat' of white acrylic paint to the step. After the paint dries and you start working the step with the file, the paint/high points will be removed first leaving paint in the low areas. It helps give you a visual guide of your high and low points. 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Keith Black

[lraymo]

Thanks Keith!  I was encouraged because the file you suggested is the exact one I picked to use when the package arrived!   I haven't made any discernable progress yet, but I'm working on it.  Can't believe the "step" part is so hard for me, as I know there are much more difficult areas ahead.  Ah, but then I remember it's all a learning experience!  Now, off to experiment with getting a smooth surface!

[Keith Black]

 Lynn, if you have a small stiff brush (a toothbrush will kinda work though it's really not stiff enough)  you'll want to occasionally clean the fiber build up between file's teeth so as not to impede the cutting process. 

[lraymo]

Thanks again for the suggestions.  I had my first carving mishap with the knife.  Went completely through the bulwark.  Glued and clamped to fix, and I'm hoping I'll still be able to carve, file, and sand through the glue, as there's still more excess wood to remove from the area!   For now, going to let it dry and try again tomorrow!   It will be interesting to see if I can make this all look good, but I am hopeful!

 

 

[Tigersteve]

Yes- totally fixable. Nice recovery. 
Steve

[Keith Black]

 Lynn, take your time, you'll get there and it'll be marvelous.