Triton (1:48) by kellrandy (Randall)

[kellrandy]

Howdy everyone.  I think I got the hawse frames worked out.  They're roughed out and still have quite a bit of fairing left to do on them, but think they came out pretty good.  I am happy with them.  I'm off building the aft square frames and fairing while they cure.  Have a good weekend, and to the folks in the US, have a great Memorial Day.

 

[kellrandy]

Thought I would chime in since I haven't posted in a while.  I didn't think it was all too important to post each and every frame as there are tons, but I have made it to the halfway point.  I finally have the aft square frames constructed, 0-19. There is quite a color disparity between the more midship frames and further aft (lighting in the first picture makes it look worse than it is), but it is still the same wood (mahogany) if you're wondering. Thats what you get when you buy as you go with the wood I guess. Gives it a little character, so I'm sticking with it.

 

I am quite burned out with making frames so I am taking a break from those for a little bit to make some jigs and things I plan to use when I erect them. I've been reading EdT's methods for doing things in his Naiad and Fair American builds on how he erects the frames and I am building some of the clamps he described and the adjustable squares he uses, and altering my gantry a little.  It will be time well spent and hopefully keep the mistakes to a minimum. Better the prep, better the outcome I think. Once that's done, then I'll finish up the rest of the frames.

 

Until next time, happy modeling!!

[Matrim]

Looks good and frames can seem never ending, still prefer them to fairing the hull though...

[harvey1847]

Hello Randy!

 

 

There is quite a color disparity between the more midship frames and further aft (lighting in the first picture makes it look worse than it is),

 

I had the same "problem" and believe me that the color will change in two or three months... There's something with the wood that even when it's dry and cut is still somehow "alive".

 

Congrats with the frames! One thing that worked with me was make them in a "industrial" way.

 

Best wishes and happy modelling!

[kellrandy]

Thanks everyone for the likes!

 

Thanks for the info on the wood, Daniel. I do hope it darkens a bit. Time will tell. I have been building them one at a time, from cutting the templates through to rough sanding and bolting, then the next one. It goes about one every couple of days or so.

[harvey1847]

No rush with this hobby like someone said to me once...

 

Something that I forgot to tell you, It's important to hold the frames together with an elastic or with a jig if you are not going to erect them right now.

 

Daniel.

[kellrandy]

Hey everyone, been a little while, but have been quite busy lately.  So I have all the frames completed!!  Now I'm in the process of cleaning up and getting things ready to start erecting them.  I also made just a couple of those clamps that EdT described in his Naiad log, plus some adjustable squares, and a homemade plumb-bob out of a fishing weight to use to make sure the frame is centered and level. I'm also going to be using fillers as I go.  I'll be adding in the fillers for the cant frames as well.

 

Here's the couple of clamps I made. At least for me, they were pretty difficult to make, but was able to do so and most importantly, they work! 

 

 

Finally, I read through my build and noticed that I hadn't really described how I do anything, and feel pretty bad about it. I just put up some pics of the end results, so below is a walk through of how I constructed the frames. From now on, I'll be doing these walk throughs for every major construction sequence. Also, my apologies to the community for not doing it that way in the first place, the way I believe build logs are supposed to be written.

 

I know most folks doing this build are beyond this point, but it might help some that may decide to pick it up.  Also, if anyone sees anything that I can improve upon for future builds, by all means please let me know what I could do better as this is my first scratch build and only my second ship, there are probably plenty of things I could do better or differently that will improve the outcome.

 

Step 1:

All pieces were cut a little outside of the lines, ends sanded to size.  Then they were test fit on the patterns to ensure the joints lined up properly.

 

Step 2: The blue-lined pieces were darkened on the joint ends with my trusty Sharpie marker. If you decide to go this route, test the marker on scrap pieces of the same wood before deciding to use it. The marker may bleed into the wood and the glue does change the color of the lines. Experimentation is the best method. Then the blue-lined pieces were glued making sure the beveling lines and joints match-up on the pattern and allowed to cure.

 

 

Step 3:

Once the blue-lined pieces have cured, the red-lined pieces were test fit and the ends were marked on the blue pieces. The assembly template was removed and saved for later. I used a scrap piece of MDF that I roughly cut the corners to accommodate the different curves of the frames and have plenty of room to clamp them.

 

Step 4:

The floor futtock template was cut along the dotted line where the first futtock begins using a hobby knife and the end of the 1st futtock we marked in the previous step was also cut. This portion of the template was removed, sanded a little to ensure the joint on the blue lined pieces was flush, then darkened with the good ole sharpie again.

 

Step 5:

The joint ends and bottom where it would be glued to the blue lined pieces were blackened as well and the first futtock piece was glued and clamped into place taking care to line up the joint lines again with the first futtock and the below pattern piece.  The previous step and this one was repeated on the rest of the pieces. and allowed to cure completely. After I got up to frame 15 or so, I switched my glue to hide glue (the kind you don't have to warm). I love that stuff now, very hard and holds extremely well, and has a long open time. I've had pieces pop apart without much pressure using standard wood glue. If you screw up as often as I do, then all it takes is some warm water, a few minutes, and it will release pretty easily.

 

Step 6: Once the frame has cured completely, then it is sanded just unto the outer most line on both the inside and outer curves. The keel notch was cut using a small jeweler's saw and cleaned up with a file. Then double=checked with the frame's assembly pattern.

 

Step 7:

The pattern was then removed from the frame, which I will probably regret now that I think about it. Up next was the bolting. According to my source of research, on this period of ship and size, the bolts were 1", which translates to 0.020" at 1:48. I had initially planned on doing the chocks and scarfs for the top timbers as described in in my research, but didn't have the courage to do so for fear of screwing up the frames, so I left out those details. The pattern of the bolting is the standard offset pattern. They were cut a little long to allow for a good end when clipped and filled off.  They go completely through the frame and are set with a dab of CA inside the hole. After that, they are lightly sanded on the fore and aft faces to clean them up a little bit, and ta-da!

 

[harvey1847]

Hey Randall!

 

Excellent work and excellent explanation about the way you have been making the frames. I took lots and lots of pics and I do post every single step of the parts I am making. You are absolutely right. These logs are intended to show us lots of pictures of the little or enormous progress done so far and share them with all of us rather that writting and writting.

 

Keep going! I have been "out" for a while but I´ll be back soon posting pics and a few words.

 

Best wishes!

 

 

Daniel.

[Matrim]

Impressive looking frame, well done.

[jaerschen]

This is a very good description of a framebuild. The frame is looking very good, well done.

[kellrandy]

Thanks everyone for the compliments and likes. It is very much appreciated. I'm about a third of the way done erecting the frames and love seeing the ship take shape. I'll be doing another walk through when I am done with that process. I've been taking quite a few photos as I go. Thanks again guys.

[kellrandy]

Hey everyone, been a very long time since I've posted. I just went through the worst year of my life, but it is finally starting to calm down. After divorce, getting laid off from my job, getting a new job, and two moves later, I'm finally able to continue work on my Triton build. It's been in storage, along with all of my tools, workbench, and so on for almost a year now. It's now in my new place and sawdust finally started to pile up again. Its in the same stage as my last post over a year ago and have begun erecting more frames. Everything stayed safe and sound in my storage unit which was climate controlled and everything, which was good. So, soon I will post up some more pics of the framing, and the process I took to do it. It's going to be like the one for my frame construction, so it will be a little while. Hopefully no one has forgotten about me, but I'm back and building again which feels great.

[mike0879]

Been following your posts and thing look great. I like the the use of the mahogany. Keep up the good work. 

[mike0879]

Hi Kellrandy

I am getting ready to start working on the Triton. I noticed that in some areas it looks like the deadwood is thinner than the Keel. Is this just my imagination? I know that you have to cut in the steps for the cants, so I was thinking that the deadwood above the steps is thinner for clearance. Am I on the right track? This will be my first scratch build so I want to make sure I am looking at things correctly. Need to learn how to read these plans.

Thanks

Michael  

[kellrandy]

Hi Mike, thanks for the reply. The dead wood does fair thinner than the keel and stern post assembly. That is allow the planking to lay flush with the keel and stem. It took me a while too to figure out how to read the plans as well. Wang's Triton build and EdT's Niad build logs are a wealth of great information to help along the way. Happy building!

 

Randall

[mike0879]

Hey thanks for the reply. I will check out there builds. 

Michael

[kellrandy]

Hey guys, been a while since I posted anything on my build, but I've been working on it quite regularly. I haven't been all that good at taking pictures of the progress though, sorry. So it's framed up, faired, keelson in place, and most of a strake of the lower deck clamps in for support while I faired the outside of the hull. Now I've started the stern. I think it's coming together ok. As always, let me know if you guys see anything amiss that I can improve upon.

 

Thanks,

Randy

[kellrandy]

Hey guys, I'm back again. I have been working on the stern and have come to working on the windows, and I'm happy to say that they are complete. They're not installed yet, the photo is just test fitting with a little rubber cement to hold it in place. The inner "tic-tac-toe" frames are made out of ebony, the outer window frames are mahogany like the rest of the ship. Ebony will also be used for the wales when I get to that point. So here we go...

 

Every inner window frame was cut all at once with a little jig that you can see on the right in the first picture. That let me measure only once, and keep all pieces identical for all seven windows across the back. The outer mahogany frames were cut individually for sizing to match the stern timbers. The rest is pretty straight forward for the assembly of them. The side windows I've got to figure out because there are no plans for those.

[kellrandy]

Hey guys, have a little question... I'm about ready to plank the lower and upper counters and am wondering how the corners were fitted/meet with the hull planking. Do the counter planks cover the end grain of the hull planking or does the hull planking cover the ends of the counter planking? I know the Triton build is pretty much dead and it seems like I'm the only one still building it, but I would appreciate a little info if there's anyone out there. Thanks and happy modeling!

[mtaylor]

I believe there may have been a fashion piece that covered the ends of the hull planking and the counter.    I'll have to search and find a picture as most builders seem to miss this...

 

You can see it here in the last pic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/232-hms-naiad-by-edt-160-frigate-38-1797/?p=72229

 

I did that here on my ship but it's French.... http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/5339-licorne-by-mtaylor-pof-316-french-frigate-hahn-version-20/?p=374762

 

What most usually do is have the hull planks (and wales) cover the end of the counter planks.

[kellrandy]

Thanks Mark for the info. That makes perfect sense. I've read in more than a few books that exposed end grain was a big no-no and didn't know how to get around it on the stern. A fashion piece would work perfectly. Just another of those "why couldn't I think of that" moments I've been having lately, lol. Thanks again.

[Charlie1805]

wow...wow...wow...beautiful  

 

a question. Were the Romero plans used here?

Edited May 15, 2016 by Charlie1805

[kellrandy]

Thanks guys for all the likes and thank you Charlie for the "wows"! I don't know what you mean by the Romero plans, so no, I haven't been using those. I'm using the ones provided here and to fill in the gaps, I'm using two other books primarily, "The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War 1650 - 1850" by Peter Goodwin and "The Frigate Diana" by David White. The latter is part of the "Anatomy of the Ship" series.

[mtaylor]

To my knowledge there are no "Romero" plans for the Triton.   The MSW are the only ones I've ever heard about or found.

[kellrandy]

Ok, time for the wales

[kellrandy]

Ok, so I have another question... I went with the scale that's in my book, which was the narrowest of all three top an butt planking patterns which gave me a width of the wales (in four strakes) at 45". Which comes out to 15/16 of an inch. The midship cross section plan has them at 3/4 of an inch. Are mine to wide for the Triton? My book doesn't break down the widths for the wales versus rate of ship and I think the Triton is a 6th rate.

[mtaylor]

For that difference you'd have to cut 1/32" off the top run and the bottom run if I'm doing my math right.  Correct?  I'd say go with what looks the best to you.  If I recall correctly, the Triton is a 6th rate.

[kellrandy]

Thanks Mark for the info. I did some more research and found that on fifth rate ships, the width of the wales were around 3.5' (42"), so I'm assuming 6th rate were a little narrower fourth rate was around 45", 1-3 were around 54"-60". So going with that logic, 3/4" would be the closest to the actual width. So I've trimmed them to 1/4" at the touch and 1/8" at the butts and recut the angles for proper proportion according to my book, exactly as I cut them the first time. That gave me a width of 3/4". Yeah! Thanks again Mark for your help. You've helped me a lot with this build and I am very grateful, thank you.

[mtaylor]

I'm happy to have been of help.  Some of this stuff (ok... most actually) can be pretty confusing.

[kellrandy]

Hey guys, just a little update on the wale planking. It it going surprisingly well steam bending the ebony. I do not have my steam machine like I used to, no where to set it up, so as a replacement steam machine, I am using a rice/veggie steamer