Running Rigging _ Running in Circles....

[USNCHief]

Looking ahead to get the rigging started on my Dapper Tom and am trying to put a plan together. The problem is, the rigging plans are confusing with lines disappearing into a "maze of lines" that looks like a "pile of spaghetti" (no offense to pasta intended). I understand some lines are not installed if the sails are stowed below in the sail locker. The question is, which ones should be omitted if I do not mount sails? Also, are the lines all rigged symmetrically i.e. if it is on the port side of the yard, does it also go on the starboard side too? More to follow as I "peel back the onion".

[Guest lost_one]

Very long books have been written on the " simple" question you pose!.

 

This is not a precise definition but

 First there are "ropes" which hold something up - like the masts .

Then those which hold and possibly move spars.

 

Putting those two in place is the very basic rigging. 

 

Then we go to lines for sails handling.  These are not normally permanently rigged and many/most would be stowed when as sail is stowed. (Though for working convenience a line for working a sail may be attached - say to the end of a spar).

 

Lines are usually paired  but there are lots of cases where they are not.

 

The quantity of lines on an actual working vessel can be quite horrendous

rigging them all on a model is a daunting task which I and many others just feel is a step too far.

But when you see the logic layout - with otr without sails- one may be tempted

 

I just looked up Dapper Tom and just realised it was a small vessel - Just a suggestion which i did  on a similar  build oh 40  years ago was to fake it a bit and  join the sail running lines together.  Had to repair it a little while back

Liberty Repair

Edited July 5, 2022 by lost_one

[allanyed]

9 hours ago, Guest lost_one said:

Very long books have been written on the " simple" question you pose!.

Chief, The above is all too true.   I wish you or someone would find and share a free detailed rigging source that covers hundreds of years and a full range of ship sizes.   In the meantime you will need to invest in a good rigging book, but alas, there is only one that I know of, Lees' Masting and Rigging   It is based on English ships.  Marquardt is another great choice but I think it only covers the 18th century.  Anderson is great as well, but is limited to the Days of the Spritsail Topmast.  David Antscherl's volume IV of TFFM model is another that you should consider.  Some folks like Petersson's book but it is based on a single contemporary model so very limited. 

Allan

Edited July 5, 2022 by allanyed

[USNCHief]

Thanks for the replies. I have a few books but it all is a bit confusing. The terminology still is not clicking and I am having a devil of the time trying to decipher it.

[USNCHief]

I did get a bit of progress finally. Got the cavils and pinrails installed and spent the rest of the day tying blocks onto eyebolts.

[allanyed]

Hi Chief

What ship/year is your model?  The reason I ask is that, depending on era, the openings in the channels were holes as you show them only up until 1771 but then slotted with an outboard edge cover board after that, at least in the RN (Goodwin The Construction and Fitting  of the English Man of War, page 187).  I believe that this was the case for American ships as well by the time of Baltimore Clippers in the 19th century.  Hopefully a member will have additional contemporary based information.

Allan

Edited July 5, 2022 by allanyed

[druxey]

Yes, rigging looks like a rat's nest or intricate maze and seems very intimidating. One needs to take each line soearately, one at a time, and it will become less daunting.

[rwiederrich]

On 7/5/2022 at 2:08 AM, USNCHief said:

Looking ahead to get the rigging started on my Dapper Tom and am trying to put a plan together. The problem is, the rigging plans are confusing with lines disappearing into a "maze of lines" that looks like a "pile of spaghetti" (no offense to pasta intended). I understand some lines are not installed if the sails are stowed below in the sail locker. The question is, which ones should be omitted if I do not mount sails? Also, are the lines all rigged symmetrically i.e. if it is on the port side of the yard, does it also go on the starboard side too? More to follow as I "peel back the onion".

Rigging generally is paired...unless you are talking about lifting yards and certain haulyards.  But in general if it happens on the port, it happens on the starboard.  A brace is a line at the end of a yard(and its blocks) used to pull a yard aft(back)...to position it to catch the best wind.  You pull on one side and slack on the other.

There are of course two types of rigging....standing(the kind that holds the masts stiff)(black), and the running rigging(used to move the yards and sails around(Tan).  Standing rigging is always paired(shrouds and backstays), the *stays* are the standing rigging that goes between masts and holds them from shifting back and forth relative to each other.

If you are only interested in rigging running rigging that controls the yards...that is the easiest.

If you are not rigging any sails.....you can eliminate lots of rigging...such as the bunt lines(used for raising and lowering the sails on the masts....sheets and tacks for controlling the ends of sails, and then the downhauls and haulyards for all the stay sails.  If you're real ambitious...all the stunsail rigging can be added or as mentioned...... not installed if you are NOT installing stunsails.

 

If you break it all down into the least component or function...it isn't all that difficult.

 

Rob

[USNCHief]

On 7/6/2022 at 1:46 AM, allanyed said:

Hi Chief

What ship/year is your model?  The reason I ask is that, depending on era, the openings in the channels were holes as you show them only up until 1771 but then slotted with an outboard edge cover board after that, at least in the RN (Goodwin The Construction and Fitting  of the English Man of War, page 187).  I believe that this was the case for American ships as well by the time of Baltimore Clippers in the 19th century.  Hopefully a member will have additional contemporary based information.

Allan

Allan, I just now re-read your post and I will elongate the holes on the channels to make them more of a slot. Don't know how it took so long for me to notice this. Thanks!

[allanyed]

Hi Chief,

 

The slot and cover board are far easier to work with rather than any kind of hole.  You don't have to feed the deadeye strop through the hole, merely slip it in the slot.  Once they  are in place, the molding board keeps them in place.  Easy peasy compared to forcing them though the holes.   Wonder why it took those folks until 1771 to figure this out, especially when it came to replacing worn or damaged deadeyes and links.

 

Allan

[tkay11]

Petersson's books, for all their faults, are good in isolating sections of the rigging so that you can get a good idea of positioning, belaying and function for each type.

 

Tony

[DaveBaxt]

On 7/5/2022 at 10:08 AM, USNCHief said:

Looking ahead to get the rigging started on my Dapper Tom and am trying to put a plan together. The problem is, the rigging plans are confusing with lines disappearing into a "maze of lines" that looks like a "pile of spaghetti" (no offense to pasta intended). I understand some lines are not installed if the sails are stowed below in the sail locker. The question is, which ones should be omitted if I do not mount sails? Also, are the lines all rigged symmetrically i.e. if it is on the port side of the yard, does it also go on the starboard side too? More to follow as I "peel back the onion".

Great question and You are not alone and even after riigging my first ship and by the time I got to my second ship I am still finding it somewhat difficult. Fortunately a lot of what I did on my first model is still in my head somewhere. I have sinse obtained a few books which have been previously recommended  by guys on here and I have found them of great value as well has help from the people on this forum. On my first model I left out a lot of the running rigging and only fitted that which secured the masts ( Standing rigging) and those which controlled the yards. (Lifts, parrels,brace and for hoisting the yards).I found this for me was difficult enough. Hopefully on my second ship I will fit more of the running rigging which will include the Clew,Sheet and tacklines .The main problem I am having is which ropes to leave out, if the sails are not fitted but hopefully will eventually get there in the end as will you as I am sure. Good luck with your endevour. Dave

[Fred Moss]

I have just received E. Leclerc's model double-masted schooner, Canadienne.  It is in bad shape and I'd like to restore it to its former beauty.  All the standing and running rigging (there are no sails) has rotted into pieces.  I want to replace all the lines. Other than reading all of Patrick O'Brien's Aubrey and Maturin books, I know nothing about sailing ships, let alone schooners.  I've found a couple pictures of the schooner from when it was on sale but the pictures are not clear enough to teach me how to re-rig the lines.  Is there a diagram of how the standing and running lines are rigged on a double-masted schooner somewhere?

 

Also, where can I find thread that is thick enough to replace the rotted lines?  It seems the stays are thicker than the running lines.

 

Any suggestions are very much appreciated.

 

Thank you,

Fred 

[Roger Pellett]

Fred,  I am not familiar with either the ship or model of it that you plan to restore.  Perhaps you might post some pictures of the model in its present state of disrepair.  Before you proceed with repair, a note of caution:  If this is an antique, much harm can be done to it and to its value by enthusiastic but inexperienced restoration attempts

 

I am In the process of reading Rob Napier’s excellent new book, “Caring for Ship Models”.  Rob, a professional model builder, specializing in restoration walks the reader through 50 case studies.  Highly recommended before you proceed further.

 

Roger

[mtaylor]

Welcome to MSW, Fred.

 

A couple of suggestions... do an introduction in the New Member area.   And open your own topic on this with photos.  If you decide to do a restoration, than a topic in the scratch area would be the place to document it.

[Dr PR]

I have done quite a bit of research on schooner rigging. Here are two posts that should answer some of your questions.

 

Schooner sail plans and rigging. This shows many sail plan options and defines a lot of the terms:

 

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25679-topsail-schooner-sail-plans-and-rigging/?do=findComment&comment=750865

 

This post discusses where all the rats nest of rigging gets belayed on deck:

 

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/30234-topsail-schooner-belaying-plan/?do=findComment&comment=862302