New workshop in the garage.

[John Murray]

Afternoon all,
I am moving house this weekend. I live in Adelaide, South Australia which ranges in temp from around 0 celcius overnight in winter to 45 celcius plus in summer. My question relates to the 2 kits I am planning to build in the shed. As the model building area will be out there I well, I am wondering how people find the various woods and plywoods moving around or distorting whether in the kit or in the kit under construction. I will also have my machinery in the shed of course.
The 12 foot by 24 foot shed has power and lights. The interior of the house is not large enough to support a build area at all. I could not find a forum for this particular topic. This seemed the closest suitable forum.

 

regards

 

John

[gjdale]

John,

 

My garage is also my “dirty” workshop. To overcome some of the weather-related issues, as well as to make it a more pleasant environment to work, I put insulation on the inside of the garage door as well as in the roof over the garage, and added a split system reverse cycle air conditioner. I also had an epoxy floor laid and installed a bunch of “daylight” LED panels to replace the somewhat inadequate fluros. It’s now a really nice workshop…….that I still have to share with two cars.

[John Murray]

1 hour ago, gjdale said:

John,

 

My garage is also my “dirty” workshop. To overcome some of the weather-related issues, as well as to make it a more pleasant environment to work, I put insulation on the inside of the garage door as well as in the roof over the garage, and added a split system reverse cycle air conditioner. I also had an epoxy floor laid and installed a bunch of “daylight” LED panels to replace the somewhat inadequate fluros. It’s now a really nice workshop…….that I still have to share with two cars.

That would be a good idea. Unfortunately I am renting and cannot make those sort of improvements...

[bruce d]

Can't help with with the hades-like top temperature but a cheapish fix for the lower end is to use electric underfloor heating. It doesn't have to be permanently installed, it can be laid on insulation and covered with cheap engineered flooring. Set it to kick in at 7 or 8 degrees (or whatever) and if the rest of the shed is insulated you can avoid the worst of the problems arising from freezing glues etc. as well as keeping the workshop usable.

If you don't aim to keep the place toasty warm, just usable, it works. 

[Jaager]

You could keep kits in your conditioned environment.   Work on the model in the garage and take the parts back into the house with you.

 

Any tools that are iron or steel - keep them coated with conservators wax - Renaissance Wax here. 

[John Murray]

20 hours ago, Jaager said:

You could keep kits in your conditioned environment.   Work on the model in the garage and take the parts back into the house with you.

 

Any tools that are iron or steel - keep them coated with conservators wax - Renaissance Wax here. 

That is what I am thinking I shall have to do. I have a few proxxon tools and the Byrnes4" table saw that will be stored in the shed. 

[John Murray]

20 hours ago, bruce d said:

Can't help with with the hades-like top temperature but a cheapish fix for the lower end is to use electric underfloor heating. It doesn't have to be permanently installed, it can be laid on insulation and covered with cheap engineered flooring. Set it to kick in at 7 or 8 degrees (or whatever) and if the rest of the shed is insulated you can avoid the worst of the problems arising from freezing glues etc. as well as keeping the workshop usable.

If you don't aim to keep the place toasty warm, just usable, it works. 

Unfortunately, the shed is a 12x24 foot steel sheet lined garage, no insulation at all.

[Nirvana]

John, some of our members are not spoiled with large workshops as a matter of fact many are working in small spaces.

Insulation is the key! Keeping the moisture at even level.

I am spoiled having a huge space, but hardly get any build done due to that.
However, even though living in the Northern West Pacific, the humidy has not done any changes to my wood, so far.......
For me having this great space is not good, as I have to insulate everything from concrete base to rooftop, all the cost!
I do have remodeling plans down and ready to go.
All my best to you.

[NavyShooter]

Living in Canada, I see some temperature swings as well.  My 22x22' garage is insulated, but not heated.  I have a fair bit of 'spendy' equipment in it, from my 10x30 lathe, a benchtop mill, a mini-CNC mill (still not fully assembled and working) to my various hobby gear.

 

I have a dehumidifier that I run during the summer months to try and keep a handle on the humidity - it seems to work reasonably well as I don't see any rust forming on the lathe between uses (I keep it fairly well oiled too...) 

 

In the winter months, there is actually an increase in humidity due to the snow-blower, and after use it ends up bringing in a bunch of left-over snow.  I have a small 1500 watt electric fan heater that I use to dry things out, and a squeegee to push the puddles of melted snow out after I finish snow blowing.  The dehumidifier doesn't work in the winter due to the cooler temperatures though. 

 

I'll suggest in your situation that a dehumidifier might be the first place to start to help moderate the humidity a bit.  It may not be a perfect solution, but it is a starting point that should work in your situation for most of the year.

 

The lack of insulation will mean that it's always going to be a fight against the conditions, so any insulation or sealing that can be easily/cheaply added will help.  You don't need R-15-R20 like I had installed in my garage, but you would benefit considerably from some 1/2"-3/4" foam boards, some caulking, and an inner layer of 1/4" plywood to cover the stud walls.  

 

With a 12x24 shed, assuming bare metal walls, and wooden stud construction, that's 72 feet of wall all the way around.  You would need approximately 18 sheets of foam, and 18 sheets of plywood to sheathe the inside walls all around.  

 

1/4" OSB sells locally for $25 a sheet - that's $450

3/4" foam board sells locally for $16.48 per sheet - that's another $297

 

Add to that the cost of a dehumidifier, and you've got about $1K to get a space that's partly insulated, with wood walls that you can hang things on, and will serve you better than a bare wall steel shed.

 

I realize that you are a renter - can I suggest engaging with the landlord to see if they're willing to chip in for some of it?  Or simply buy the materials and you do all the labour for the installation?   

 

At a minimum, see if they'll flip for the foam board and then you can caulk that into place between the studs and get some sealing effect, and you provide the dehumidifier.

 

[Charles Green]

Since the topic of insulation has come up:  I had my shop building made of SIP's - Structural Insulated Panels.  I designed the building and had the panels made for that design.  I used this form of construction since I didn't want the expense of heating and cooling another building.  The walls and roof are made of the SIP's, the rest of the building is conventional.  There is plenty of info on the Net about SIP's.  The building is 1,200 square feet, the workshop is about 700.  Cooling the building is done by leaving the windows open at night and running a large fan out one door for an hour or so in the cool of the morning, then closing everything up.  Temperature rise by end of day may be as much as 7 degrees.  A small, oil-filled electric heater, set at mid-range, keeps the shop area comfortable in the winter.  I'm in Idaho - 100+ in the summer and cold winters.

 

I'm lucky to have the shop and there was a local maker of SIP's.  The shop didn't spring up in the backyard overnight.  It was in the planning stage for years and I did the shingling, siding, floor, trim, doors, windows, painting, plumbing and electrical.  Anyone contemplating new construction, considering the future of energy costs, should look into SIP's.   

Edited August 4, 2022 by Charles Green
Correction

[Roger Pellett]

As a minimum you need to do something to protect those valuable power tools. I would suggest storing them in a plastic tub with a snap on lid.  You then need to do something to control the environment within the tub.  A couple of ideas:

 

Silica gel desiccant-  This can be effective but it works by absorbing moisture.  It must be changed regularly.  If you neglect to regularly change it, it will become saturated with moisture; a gooey mess.

 

Z Rust- This is a plastic strip impregnated with volatile hydrocarbons that vaporize to leave a very thin film on metal surfaces within an enclosed space.  The film is so thin that you won’t know that it is there.  I keep strips of this in cabinets storing tools in my workshop.  A better choice.

 

Roger

[Shotlocker]

One tip concerning silica gel - once saturated, it can be restored by popping the packet into a microwave for a period of time,

depending upon the size of the packet. It works, I've done it, just keep an eye on the thing while it's being zapped. Heating it

in an oven also works.

[John Murray]

14 hours ago, NavyShooter said:

Living in Canada, I see some temperature swings as well.  My 22x22' garage is insulated, but not heated.  I have a fair bit of 'spendy' equipment in it, from my 10x30 lathe, a benchtop mill, a mini-CNC mill (still not fully assembled and working) to my various hobby gear.

 

I have a dehumidifier that I run during the summer months to try and keep a handle on the humidity - it seems to work reasonably well as I don't see any rust forming on the lathe between uses (I keep it fairly well oiled too...) 

 

In the winter months, there is actually an increase in humidity due to the snow-blower, and after use it ends up bringing in a bunch of left-over snow.  I have a small 1500 watt electric fan heater that I use to dry things out, and a squeegee to push the puddles of melted snow out after I finish snow blowing.  The dehumidifier doesn't work in the winter due to the cooler temperatures though. 

 

I'll suggest in your situation that a dehumidifier might be the first place to start to help moderate the humidity a bit.  It may not be a perfect solution, but it is a starting point that should work in your situation for most of the year.

 

The lack of insulation will mean that it's always going to be a fight against the conditions, so any insulation or sealing that can be easily/cheaply added will help.  You don't need R-15-R20 like I had installed in my garage, but you would benefit considerably from some 1/2"-3/4" foam boards, some caulking, and an inner layer of 1/4" plywood to cover the stud walls.  

 

With a 12x24 shed, assuming bare metal walls, and wooden stud construction, that's 72 feet of wall all the way around.  You would need approximately 18 sheets of foam, and 18 sheets of plywood to sheathe the inside walls all around.  

 

1/4" OSB sells locally for $25 a sheet - that's $450

3/4" foam board sells locally for $16.48 per sheet - that's another $297

 

Add to that the cost of a dehumidifier, and you've got about $1K to get a space that's partly insulated, with wood walls that you can hang things on, and will serve you better than a bare wall steel shed.

 

I realize that you are a renter - can I suggest engaging with the landlord to see if they're willing to chip in for some of it?  Or simply buy the materials and you do all the labour for the installation?   

 

At a minimum, see if they'll flip for the foam board and then you can caulk that into place between the studs and get some sealing effect, and you provide the dehumidifier.

 

That sounds a good idea. Apparently we were chosen as we wanted a long lease. Cannot harm to ask.
Cheers

9 hours ago, Charles Green said:

Since the topic of insulation has come up:  I had my shop building made of SPI's - Structural Insulated Panels.  I designed the building and had the panels made for that design.  I used this form of construction since I didn't want the expense of heating and cooling another building.  The walls and roof are made of the SIP's, the rest of the building is conventional.  There is plenty of info on the Net about SIP's.  The building is 1,200 square feet, the workshop is about 700.  Cooling the building is done by leaving the windows open at night and running a large fan out one door for an hour or so in the cool of the morning, then closing everything up.  Temperature rise by end of day may be as much as 7 degrees.  A small, oil-filled electric heater, set at mid-range, keeps the shop area comfortable in the winter.  I'm in Idaho - 100+ in the summer and cold winters.

 

I'm lucky to have the shop and there was a local maker of SIP's.  The shop didn't spring up in the backyard overnight.  It was in the planning stage for years and I did the shingling, siding, floor, trim, doors, windows, painting, plumbing and electrical.  Anyone contemplating new construction, considering the future of energy costs, should look into SIP's.   

Hmm, I shall look into that.
Cheers

8 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

As a minimum you need to do something to protect those valuable power tools. I would suggest storing them in a plastic tub with a snap on lid.  You then need to do something to control the environment within the tub.  A couple of ideas:

 

Silica gel desiccant-  This can be effective but it works by absorbing moisture.  It must be changed regularly.  If you neglect to regularly change it, it will become saturated with moisture; a gooey mess.

 

Z Rust- This is a plastic strip impregnated with volatile hydrocarbons that vaporize to leave a very thin film on metal surfaces within an enclosed space.  The film is so thin that you won’t know that it is there.  I keep strips of this in cabinets storing tools in my workshop.  A better choice.

 

Roger

My tools were a concern. I bought a few Proxxon tools consisting of a mini mill, a rotary head, a thicknesser, a dust extractor, a disc sander, a scroll saw, as well as a Byrnes table saw with the accessories for it.
My concern is protecting them so your idea is a considerations.
Cheers

6 hours ago, Shotlocker said:

One tip concerning silica gel - once saturated, it can be restored by popping the packet into a microwave for a period of time,

depending upon the size of the packet. It works, I've done it, just keep an eye on the thing while it's being zapped. Heating it

in an oven also works.

Thanks for that. I was not aware of that.
Cheers

[NavyShooter]

I keep silica gel packets in my gun safes - works well.  I recommend the oven for re-activating them.  Pop the silica packets in for an hour at low heat (200-225) on top of a cookie sheet.  

 

Dries them out really well!

 

[Roger Pellett]

I spent most of my career in two businesses fabricating piping assemblies for high pressure steam service.  Once erected in the field this piping fed high pressure steam to turbines.  As scale from heat treating could damage turbine blades, customer specifications required that the inside surfaces of the pipe be blast cleaned with abrasive grit.  The ends were then capped with steel end protectors sealed with duct tape.  These piping sub assemblies might be stored in the field for several months waiting to be erected.

 

To minimize cleaning of rust after erection customers began to require bags of silica gel to be taped to the inside of the end protectors.  Business conditions sometimes delayed construction causing the silica gel to degrade.  ZRust solved the problem.  When I found some rust on tools stored in my basement workshop I found ZRust available on Amazon.

 

Roger

[Nirvana]

20 minutes ago, Roger Pellett said:

 When I found some rust on tools stored in my basement workshop I found ZeRust available on Amazon.

 

Roger

Roger, I truly like that you found that item. I have looked into it myself and will place my order, they even have special bags for rifles.

They have an extensive and various kind of anti-corrosion products.