Rattlesnake Quarterdeck Bulkhead Design

[Gregory]

As I continue with my build of Rattlesnake, I have some thoughts about the Poop/Quarterdeck bulkhead.

The NMM plans show that there are two sets of doors.

Campbell drew the bulkhead like this:

This what we see in the MS, Hahn and the Mamoli plans, which indicates everyone followed Campbell.

 

My thinking is that the windows in the center/fixed panel don't seem logical.  I would think any windows would be  in the doors so one could see

who is coming or going on either side of the bulkhead before opening the door.

I guess one could glance out the window in the middle before proceeding to the door, but windows in the doors make more sense to me.

 

 

Anyone have any further thoughts on this?

 

[mtaylor]

I tend to think either way or both the doors and center panel.  The more windows the better the light down there.

[allanyed]

1 hour ago, Gregory said:

As I continue with my build of Rattlesnake, I have some thoughts about the Poop/Quarterdeck bulkhead.

Hi Gregory,

This is probably just a matter of terminology, and your reasoning about the glass panes makes a lot of sense, but when I looked at the plans you posted on your build log there is no round house (poop) so this is a little confusing.   I did find a contemporary model of a similar size ship on the RMG Collections site that does have glass panes on the doors of the bulkhead under the QD, but it looks like there may be panes on the center part of the bulkhead as well.   

 

Just as a side note, researching the scantlings in the various Establishments starting in 1719 , The Shipbuilder's Repository (1788) and Steel's Elements & Practice of Naval Architecture there is no poop (round house) on ships smaller than 50 guns.  There are a lot of photos of 50 gun and larger ships at RMG that show the round house and the panes are on the doors as you suggest.  Some of these models also show panes on both the poop and the QD bulkheads between the doors as well as on the doors. 

 

Lots of choices from which to pick😀

 

Allan

Edited August 6, 2022 by allanyed

[iMustBeCrazy]

41 minutes ago, Gregory said:

Anyone have any further thoughts on this?

I don't think anybody is going to prove you wrong whichever way you do it.

 

Two points to consider however:

 

Glass in America at the time wasn't cheap.

 

Glass in doors would be far more likely to break.

 

That said, perhaps small panes in heavy frames would be the way to go.

[Dziadeczek]

9 minutes ago, allanyed said:

...when I looked at the plans you posted on your build log there is no round house (poop) so this is a little confusing... 

That's not a round house, that's a capstan, at least per MS plans.

[Gregory]

22 minutes ago, allanyed said:

there is no round house (poop) so this is a little confusing.

MS/Campbell/Hahn  calls it the "Poop Bulkhead"..  I was just going with that so the other Rattlesnake builders would know what I am referring to.

 

I have seen the quarterdeck referred to as the ' Poop ' deck whether there were any obvious poop facilities available or not.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Gregory

[Gregory]

47 minutes ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

Glass in America at the time wasn't cheap.

The builders of this ship did not seem to be pinching pennies, what with all the ornate carvings.

I'm leaning toward Mark's idea of panes all across the doors and center section.  I think I saw at least one contemporary model that had that effect.

[jud]

Rattlesnake was built as a Privateer, 'civilian warship', ornate carvings are not fragile and were relative cheap at the time, can become splinter hazards if hit with a round cannon shot. There was no safety glass in those days and broken glass cuts today, just as it did then, we go to great effort to prevent it from flying around in large chunks when broken. Small ships with large crews needed to fight and provide for Prize Crews, could not stay at sea long before provisions were used up, those provisions would have filled every available space, leaving no free space to strike glass below or carry safety covers for it, heck the crews probably slept in every corner around the weather decks and in every cranny below. I don't believe glass was used at all in these ships, except for perhaps to pass light into a magazine, because of its danger and the cost in a vessel built strictly for going into harms way for profit. Often showing a light at night was dangerous for small vessels. We live in a well lit word, in Rattlesnake's day, they had learned to do well with little artificial light or windows.

 

 

[Gregory]

I appreciate your thoughts and safety concerns, but my goal is to build a decorative piece, and I have seen many examples of contemporary models  with glass(?) or simulated panes such as this :

Or maybe like Winchelsea.

 

 

One more..

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by Gregory

[mtaylor]

Many times, those bulkheads under the quarterdeck/poop and under forecastle were removable. Maybe even most of the time.  Removing them to below deck would do several things.... it allowed a bit better ventilation to get the smoke from the guns to clear out, it also removed extras sources of splinters (glass and wood) and lastly, it gave better access for the gunners to work and also hear commands.

[Oldsalt1950]

Go with the glass Gregory. I am with mine and here is why, without it the only light below the poop/quarter deck would be from the captain's cabin stern lights or open gun ports. That particular bulkhead was removable when they beat to quarters for battle. 

 

Jim

 

[Gregory]

Thanks for all the comments. I think more glass will make for a nice design.  I will be kicking the details around shortly.

[allanyed]

18 hours ago, Dziadeczek said:

That's not a round house, that's a capstan, at least per MS plans.

Hi Dziadeczek

I was not referring to the capstan which obviously has nothing to do with a round house.  A round house, or poop (from the French for stern, La Poupe) is a totally different thing.  The poop sat atop the quarter deck.  Examples of 50, 64 and 74 gun ships follow.  I may be wrong on this, but I believe the term came from the fact that the deck beams of the round house had a round up from 8" to 12" depending on the era and size of the ship.  Compare this to a range of 6" to 8.5" on the upper decks, and 3" to 6" on the gun deck, again depending on the era and vessel size.

Allan

Edited August 7, 2022 by allanyed

[uss frolick]

Or as Dr. Stephen Maturin once called it, "that auxiliary posterior platform" ...

[allanyed]

13 hours ago, uss frolick said:

that auxiliary posterior platform"

 I believe he was referring to the galleries as there was no round house on the Surprise being only a 6th rate.

 

[uss frolick]

It was an armed East-Indiaman that he was trying to identify in The Mauritius Command.

[allanyed]

Makes sense to me.😀  Thanks USS Frolick