1880's Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver by Keith Black - 1:120 Scale

[FriedClams]

Nice progress on the model, Keith - I like it very much.  I do agree with the other members that mentioned adding white and grey to the barge.  I think we instinctively see wood as brown, but once the sun and water get at it - the surface is bleached of pigment and turns grey.  Only unexposed wood retains its coloring, unless of course it's constantly cared for, and I'm guessing these pile drivers were not.  I don't believe that pastels/chalk will stick now that poly has been applied but thinned acrylic or even oil paint might.  Just my two cents.  Great and fun project!

 

 

 

Gary

[Cathead]

Yeah, Gary nailed it, explained it better than I did.

[wefalck]

I think I showed these pictures a couple of times before, but this is what I did in terms of painting and 'ageing':

 

Basecoat:

After washes of burnt umber and dusting with black, grey and white pastels:

[Keith Black]

On 8/10/2024 at 4:09 PM, Cathead said:

If the ground-up scenic foam is too coarse, you could also simply use the scenic grass powder also sold by the likes of Woodland Scenics. Real problem is that you only need a tiny amount of either product, so buying a whole bag is a waste. Your sawdust idea is a great way to get around that.

 Thank you, Eric.

 

6 hours ago, FriedClams said:

I do agree with the other members that mentioned adding white and grey to the barge.  I think we instinctively see wood as brown, but once the sun and water get at it - the surface is bleached of pigment and turns grey.  Only unexposed wood retains its coloring, unless of course it's constantly cared for, and I'm guessing these pile drivers were not.  I don't believe that pastels/chalk will stick now that poly has been applied but thinned acrylic or even oil paint might.

 Thank you, Gary. I was trying to replicate the look in the first photo I don't think I'm seeing gray tones, more brownish and black. In the second photo, the driver on the left has the same mottled tones as the driver in the first photo but the driver on the right in the second photo has a lot less grunge, maybe it's a new driver? The far left driver in the third photo is lighter, grayish?

 

 I may have gotten too heavy with the base, time will tell if I've missed the mark. As quickly as this project is moving forward it won't be long before I'm up against it. 

 

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, wefalck said:

I think I showed these pictures a couple of times before, but this is what I did in terms of painting and 'ageing':

 Thank you, Eberhard. Yes, I have seen those photos of your model before and I was quite taken with your weathering treatment, the story it tells is perfect. 

Edited August 11 by Keith Black

[Knocklouder]

Keith my friend,  Thank you for the info on rigging, that and some pointers from other members,  I can get started.

  I have put my Mississippi diorama on hold so I can study all this but I can tell you , hope you don't mind,  but the Donkey in my diorama will be named DonKeith  Oaty.  plus embarrassing myself even more could you not glue it all together then weather it. And  I just got a great idea for the my diorama from the picture with the train,  Full steam ahead 😀.  

Buddy  Bob.

[Jay 1]

Didn’t see Eberhard‘s post about Woodland Scenics until just now…speak of the devil, i.e., the foam.  I did a trial run with it for my build late yesterday to see how it would work for algae.  It looked good so just before I jumped on MSW, I started setting up full-on tests on some styrene sheeting a few minutes ago.  Had a laugh at myself when I saw the algae hull picture in your log…I spent about an hour plus last night looking at algae on hulls (Alamy pictures)….🤪🤣
 

Long story short, Keith the stuff I’m using is really fine and might work for you.  If you PM me your address, I’ll pop a few different colors into the mail so you can try them out.

 

Cheers,

Jay
 

 

[tmj]

18 minutes ago, Jay 1 said:

I spent about an hour plus last night looking at algae on hulls

Don't feel bad. I think a lot of us spend a great deal of time looking at curious things that most folks would question our sanity over!  ... not that 'I'm' one of those types to stare at odd things, no, not me!  

[Keith Black]

3 hours ago, Knocklouder said:

Keith my friend,  Thank you for the info on rigging, that and some pointers from other members,  I can get started.

  I have put my Mississippi diorama on hold so I can study all this but I can tell you , hope you don't mind,  but the Donkey in my diorama will be named DonKeith  Oaty.  plus embarrassing myself even more could you not glue it all together then weather it. And  I just got a great idea for the my diorama from the picture with the train,  Full steam ahead 😀

 You're a peach Bob. Thank you for being you. 

 

1 hour ago, Jay 1 said:

Didn’t see Eberhard‘s post about Woodland Scenics until just now…speak of the devil, i.e., the foam.  I did a trial run with it for my build late yesterday to see how it would work for algae.  It looked good so just before I jumped on MSW, I started setting up full-on tests on some styrene sheeting a few minutes ago.  Had a laugh at myself when I saw the algae hull picture in your log…I spent about an hour plus last night looking at algae on hulls (Alamy pictures)….🤪🤣
 

Long story short, Keith the stuff I’m using is really fine and might work for you.  If you PM me your address, I’ll pop a few different colors into the mail so you can try them out.

 Jay, thank for stopping by. No need to PM me, post it here where everyone has an opportunity to see it. I want my build logs to be more about us. 

 

37 minutes ago, tmj said:

Don't feel bad. I think a lot of us spend a great deal of time looking at curious things that most folks would question our sanity over!  ... not that 'I'm' one of those types to stare at odd things, no, not me! 

 Tom, in this goofy hobby I think the majority of us dive down some mighty deep rabbit holes when doing research. So many interesting things, so little time. 

Edited August 11 by Keith Black

[Jay 1]

If you would like to try it out to for the algae on your build, Keith, I meant I'll mail you few different packets of colors of stuff like what's in the picture.

 

[Keith Black]

4 minutes ago, Jay 1 said:

If you would like to try it out to for the algae on your build, Keith, I meant I'll mail you few different packets of colors of stuff like what's in the picture.

 Jay, thank you for the generous offer but first let me see how the sawdust concoction does. If it doesn't work I'll take you on a small packet of that green grass as it looks to be the ticket for replicating algae. Thank you again.  

[Jay 1]

You’re welcome, Keith!  Sounds good—hope the sawdust works but if not, ya got a fallback fer trying out. 😉

 

Edited August 12 by Jay 1

[Cathead]

Yep, Jay's showing exactly what I had in mind.

[FriedClams]

7 hours ago, Keith Black said:

I was trying to replicate the look in the first photo I don't think I'm seeing gray tones, more brownish and black.

You’re probably right, Keith.  Actually, I was thinking more of the barge itself and not so much the driver.  The driver timbers were probably treated with creosote or some other nasty brew of toxins and heavy metals to preserve the wood from rot.  So you’re brownish/black could very well be spot on.

 

Gary

[Keith Black]

Thank you to all for the likes and for the kind comments.

 

20 hours ago, FriedClams said:

You’re probably right, Keith.  Actually, I was thinking more of the barge itself and not so much the driver.  The driver timbers were probably treated with creosote or some other nasty brew of toxins and heavy metals to preserve the wood from rot.  So you’re brownish/black could very well be spot on.

Gary, it could be the lighting making the driver in the first photo look darker as It appears the first photo was taken on a foggy day. 

 

 

 The ladder/rear horizontal supports are done. I placed the ladder rungs/supports on two foot centers per the plans. The drive tower is getting close to being permanently attached to the barge.   

 

 It makes the back of the driver look awful busy. 

 

 I'm overwhelmed by the kind support shown by everyone, thank you so very much. 

 

   Keith

[KeithAug]

The model in the background looks forlorn. 

I really haven't got my head round why the pile driver doesn't turn turtle. That tower would make a very good keel.🙂

[Keith Black]

3 hours ago, KeithAug said:

The model in the background looks forlorn. 

I really haven't got my head round why the pile driver doesn't turn turtle. That tower would make a very good keel.🙂

 Just last night in conversation I told the Tennessee how sorry I was for neglecting her.

 

 The driver wouldn't make a good keel in shallow draft, that bloody thing is 68 feet tall. But I think you're right on, a big blow would play havoc. I don't know what kept em upright, we need Roger Pellett, @Roger Pellett to splain to us.

[tmj]

5 minutes ago, Keith Black said:

 The driver wouldn't make a good keel in shallow draft, that bloody thing is 68 feet tall. But I think you're right on, a big blow would play havoc. I don't know what kept em upright, we need Roger Pellett, @Roger Pellett to splain to us.

I've been scratching my head on that too. Is there any chance that what you are building is actually a 'waterline' model that truly has a much deeper draft than what is seen? That would allow for needful water displacement as well as room for necessary ballast, in the forward section, to counteract the weight of that 68-foot-tall driver. Wouldn't help much in high winds or rough water though. Could those 'towers' be laid down for transport and rough weather?     

 

[Keith Black]

13 minutes ago, tmj said:

I've been scratching my head on that too. Is there any chance that what you are building is actually a 'waterline' model that truly has a much deeper draft than what is seen? That would allow for needful water displacement as well as room for necessary ballast, in the forward section, to counteract the weight of that 68-foot-tall driver. Wouldn't help much in high winds or rough water though. Could those 'towers' be laid down for transport and rough weather? 

 Tom, it is a waterline model but from what little I know the barges were shallow draft vessels. The plan below has the barge dimensions but the numbers a bit too small to read and when I try enlarging, everything pixilates 

 

[tmj]

15 minutes ago, Keith Black said:

The plan below has the barge dimensions but the numbers a bit too small to read and when I try enlarging, everything pixilates 

I see that. Very difficult to read, however. Just 'eyeballing' proportions... I'd say that it should float, as drawn, with a good bit ballast up front. I agree with you. Mr. Pellett needs to chime in here!  

[Cathead]

To what extent does the weight of the machinery counter-balance the tower? It's placed at the other end of the barge in a natural setting to do so, in both Keith's plans and all the historic photos shown earlier. And as already said, some additional ballast would go a long way.

 

As for overall tipsiness, yeah, I wouldn't want to be out on open water on a windy day on one of these, but presumably they were almost always tied up to something else stable (existing piles, tugs, etc.) while working and only moved under stable conditions. For example, I've watched modern barges doing bridge work hosting huge cranes that seem like the whole thing should just topple into the water, but between the barge being tied up solidly to something and the crane well-balanced, it works.

[Jay 1]

Agree with Eric.  The machinery at the aft end along with ballast in the barge would work.  Can likely get a rough estimate of the boom & hammer weight by calculating boom & timber dimensions + hammer & misc. & grossing up.  I’ve seen modern ones secured either to shore and/or to piles on the sides. 

[rwiederrich]

On 8/12/2024 at 4:42 PM, Keith Black said:

Thank you to all for the likes and for the kind comments.

 

Gary, it could be the lighting making the driver in the first photo look darker as It appears the first photo was taken on a foggy day. 

 

 

 The ladder/rear horizontal supports are done. I placed the ladder rungs/supports on two foot centers per the plans. The drive tower is getting close to being permanently attached to the barge.   

 

 It makes the back of the driver look awful busy. 

 

 I'm overwhelmed by the kind support shown by everyone, thank you so very much. 

 

   Keith

Not to be disparing, but I refer you to your own image.....I think your donkey boiler is too small for your arrangement, Unless you are modeling  much large derrick pile driver.....?

Edited August 15 by rwiederrich

[TBlack]

The drawings pretty much limit the size of the boiler.

[Keith Black]

10 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Not to be disparing, but I refer you to your own image.....I think your donkey boiler is too small for your arrangement, Unless you are modeling  much large derrick pile driver.....?

 Rob, that's only a fifty foot tower. Pile drivers are ten feet between the deck and the second level/floor and eight feet between each successive level. The driver I'm modeling is 68 feet tall. 

 

 The donkey in photo you referred to is a later improved version of the engine I'm building, it's a double cylinder, double drum engine with a larger boiler.  

 

The steam donkey engine I'm building is to the plan below. Truth be told, my boiler is tad taller that what the plan calls for. 

 

 

[rwiederrich]

11 minutes ago, TBlack said:

The drawings pretty much limit the size of the boiler.

That might be true according to the drawing...but it surely isn't indicative to the drivers in the image...or the one Keith is building.  The images depict the pier is slightly taller than 3 boilers....but Keiths pier  is four and a half times taller than his boiler.  either he's building a much taller pier....or his boiler is too small.   Keith deviates from the picture in that his barge is square.

 

Sure to boot, I bet the design was very flexible...and there were no hard standards...cept the functionality.

 

Rob

[Keith Black]

6 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Keith deviates from the picture in that his barge is square.

 

 See the plan in post #138. 

Edited August 15 by Keith Black

[rwiederrich]

18 minutes ago, Keith Black said:

The driver I'm modeling is 68 feet tall. 

Wow....your pile driver is nearly twice as tall as the ones depicted in that image you provided , the one I reproduced.  Those towers are 39ft tall.  I devised that by calculating the height of the man by the donkey....for academic purposes...he's 6ft tall and he fits 6.5 times the height of the drivers  pier.  that measurement was taken for both drivers with men on their barges.

So apparently, you are NOT mimicking these drivers, but are building one twice as tall with a smaller, less efficient boiler.  Well, then I owe you an apology.

 

Rob(good job)

 

Rob

Edited August 15 by rwiederrich

[rwiederrich]

You're building one of those other guys it appears.  different animals.  these look to be 68ft tall and riding on rectangular barges.

Fun project for sure..

 

 

Rob

[Keith Black]

32 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

You're building one of those other guys it appears.  different animals.

 Rob, they're different animals in that I'm building a floating pile drive while the driver in the photo is a skid pile driver, note the log rollers under the tower base. It looks like they were putting in a very short dock to get above a mud flat. 

 

 Skid drivers operate on a already existing dock working above the waterline. In the photo they didn't need a lot of height because there's no rising water, only mud. Floating drivers work from the bottom up and need the increased tower height because the logs used for piling had to be lifted higher up into the driver throat.  

[Canute]

The picture was taken on 11-28-14, scratched just above the photographer's initials, W.B.B JR. Over on the right side, bottom corner. Somewhat newer equipment.