The concept of "best kit"....

[mtaylor]

I've seen post after post asking for info on the "best kit".  The catch is, the author never specifies what they mean by "best" until others begin asking.  The concept of "best" is rather subjective to many factors.... instructins, begnner kit or more advanced, materials, and reputation of the supplier, historical accuracy, etc.

 

So help us out.. give us some more info on what your criteria is.

 

Thank you.

[GrandpaPhil]

For a good kit, I am looking for reasonable accuracy, reasonable quality of materials, good documentation, quality design and excellent fit.

 

Tamiya used to set the standard for plastic models back in the 1990’s and early 2000s back when I used to build a LOT of armor because their stuff had excellent levels of detail, had minimal flash, wasn’t too expensive, and their kits were fall together quality.

 

Carrying that forward to today, with modern production techniques such as modern photo-etch, 3D printing, modern laser-cutting and CNC milling/machining all stemming from improved 3D modeling, CAD, and CAM, sets the bar higher for a best kit.

 

For a best ship model kit, that would involve laser-cut parts from decent materials that are fall together quality, high quality “castings” (mostly 3D printed), excellent documentation geared to the skill level of the expected builder, a reasonable level of accuracy, customer service after purchase, and a reasonable price.

Quick note: I’m not a big fan of sending kit documentation on disc because some modern computers don’t have CD/DvD drives on them anymore, plus I don’t really want my computer in my primary work area, especially if I’m building in wood.

Edited December 23, 2024 by GrandpaPhil

[Thukydides]

As you say it is somewhat subjective. The problem is that what might be a good thing for one person might be a downside for another. For example if you want to kitbash / super detail your model then in many cases all you are looking for is the main structural elements as you will end up replacing most other parts anyways. In such cases the extra costs associated with "better fittings" would be wasted on you. But I suspect that most people asking the question are doing so because they are relatively new to the hobby. Once someone has at least one major build under their belt they should know enough about what they want to answer the question themselves.

 

If we then redefine "best" to mean good for a relative novice, we are really looking for something that allows them to complete the model out of the box without requiring additional fittings or materials. I would say this means the kit should have:

1. Clear easy to follow instructions
2. Laser cut materials that don't require the builder to scratch build many things
3. Quality materials and fittings meaning that the purchase of 3rd party materials is not necessary

[palmerit]

As someone who's brand new to this kind of modeling (just started over the summer) - and as someone who has used the forum to answer the question of what the "best" kit is (for a beginner) and who asked a "best second kit" question - when someone is a novice, or even has one or two kits under their belt, it is hard to even know what "with respect to what" factors to ask about or to specify. I wouldn't have known, for example, how different models can be in terms of the quality of their materials and the way they fit together and how different they can be in the clarity of the instructions until I worked on a couple of kits. If someone's a beginner, or has done one or two kits, they probably don't really know what the criteria are. Even reading build logs, you often don't understand what the differences are until you get your hands on a model. 

 

(It is odd to hear that some manufacturers still send instructions by CD/DVD. I haven't had a computer with a CD/DVD drive in a decade.)

[Freebird]

One of the prime elements for “Best Kit” for me are the instructions. If you’re an experienced old salt, that’s not as much of a requirement. For the novice ship modeler, good, clear and concise instructions are most important. As we all know, there are many elements that go into building a model ship and without good documentation, many modelers get frustrated and quit the hobby as they find it too difficult. A current example to me, of instructions that need to be written and not video clips is the new HMS Victory by Artesania Latina. This is a very expensive and complicated model, yet most of the instructions are via video clips that don’t show enough details on how to complete the model satisfactorily. An example is the hull copper sheathing. This is a very visible element that if done incorrectly, will ruin the model. All they show in chapter 22 is applying 2 rows of copper strips being applied starting at the waterline. That’s it. In other views of the model in later chapters, it’s very clear that there’s a distinct pattern of the copper plating on the hull. Same goes for planking the hull.  I’ve watched all of the available video chapters that are available (31) so far with many more to come. I was seriously considering purchasing this model, but I’m very disappointed in the instructions to build this model. So back to my initial thought, instructions are a heavy hitter in the criteria for “Best Kit”.

 

Best Regards …. Rick 
 

 

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  Hmmmm,  some 'older' kits (1970s?) have full size plans on multiple sheets (even if there are simplifications on rigging).  But printing and including these is likely considered too expensive to include in contemporary kits.  Yet the 'pot metal' cast fittings on these same kits often leave a lot to be desired, and often the blocks and deadeyes are metal.  This was before laser cut technology, so many pieces are just printed on sheet stock for the modeler to cut out.  Instructions are good on some and not so good on others (as they are today).  There are often compromises made on detail and scale as well.

 

  Today, laser cut components make building easier ('though some components can be improved by the modeler) ... but gone are those large folded prints in many cases, and much of the instructions must be downloaded and printed on your own printer (unless you want to build on line)  Fittings are often better, but not always to scale - or best proportion.  So its a mixed bag.

 

  I was once active in astronomy, and was asked what was the 'best telescope' ... to which I said, "The one you use the most."  There are many different types better suited to different observing goals.  So also with ship kits - its a matter of taste.  But the "best kit" is one that a builder actually finishes and has good recollections of the experience.  The best remedy for sparse or unclear instructions is to research your subject first (and view completed builds of it on MSW) - taking screen shots for reference as needed.  

[vossiewulf]

Quality of instructions

Quality of plans

Ease of assembly/quality of kit engineering

Historical accuracy

Quality of rope

Quality of fittings

Quality of wood

 

Those would be my variables if I was putting together a ratings system.

[uss frolick]

There is a secret manufacturer codeword, that is only placed on the highest quality wooden ship-model kits. Search carefully for the word "Vanguard" on the box-top.

[Freebird]

Or.... Syren Ship Model....

 

Best Regards .... Rick

[palmerit]

3 hours ago, uss frolick said:

There is a secret manufacturer codeword, that is only placed on the highest quality wooden ship-model kits. Search carefully for the word "Vanguard" on the box-top.

I'm thankful that the first kit I bought was the Vanguard Sherbourne (a decision I made after reading a lot of posts here). The instructions are very clear, the pieces fit together really well, the parts are clearly labeled, the materials are high quality. It's kind of unfair that a complete novice can make a model that looks so good. (I have Syren on my list for a more advanced build someday after I clear the stash I've accumulated.)

 

I've also been building the Model Shipways Shipwright series of boats (Dory, Pram, Smack). The instructions are detailed, but not always entirely clear. You'll see in some logs (not just mine) things like "I had to puzzle over ..." or "I had to read ahead ..." to figure out what to do. It's sometimes like solving a puzzle to figure out what the next step is. Once you figure things out it makes sense. Part of the challenge is that the instructions often describe the way to do something but the parts don't make it obvious which of a few ways to do something, the photos are fuzzy and not often from the best angle, let alone multiple angles. The plans in the instructions are inexplicably not to scale sometimes, and you often need to use the plans to build a part. Not all the pieces are clearly labeled. And what's in the instructions sometimes doesn't match the materials supplied. And much of the wood is basswood. It's not the case that pieces fit together, but that you need to align them right and glue them in place, sometimes hoping that you get them just right because a future step is going to rely on getting their placement just right, and neither the instructions nor the build make that obvious. My sense is that's not unique to these models but is fairly common to the design of lots of "old school" wooden ship models. I know this can read an indictment, and it's not intended to be, but as a heads up to the novice to expect more of a challenge than the "best for novice" designation or recommendation might seem to indicate.

 

I've posted basically the same other places before. I'm posting here again for when future novices might stumble upon this thread looking for a "best" model recommendation. I'd recommend a novice either getting the Vanguard Sherbourne or one of the Vanguard fishing vessels rated as Novice. Then either continue with Vanguard Models or try one of the novice models from Model Shipways, Midwest, or Bluejacket if you want to exercise some other wooden model ship muscles. The Vanguard Models are more expensive. The Vanguard Models will take more time to build that the Shipwright Series models, so it's probably a wash in terms of the "dollars per hour" part of the equation, let alone the quality of the final product.

 

The biggest challenge of the Vanguard Sherbourne (and the same would be true for the Vanguard fishing boats) is going to be the hull planking (haven't got to rigging on it yet, and I'm sure that's also going to be a challenge). The planking on the Model Shipwright series is definitely simpler. But unfortunately, the way the Model Shipwright series does its planking (laser cut parts of different shapes) is completely different from the way the Vanguard model does its planking (wooden strips). I did learn a lot doing the NRG half hull, but that's also a completely different way from either of those (scratch built pieces from a basswood sheet).

[GrandpaPhil]

I haven’t had a Vanguard kit, but everything I’ve heard about them indicates that they are excellent!

 

I am familiar with Chris Watton’s work though (he owns and operates Vanguard Models), from the Victory Models line of kits that he developed for Amati.

 

His work is top notch.

 

After I bought my first set of Victory Models plans, that he developed, and looked through them, I went and bought the rest of the plans that I was interested in, over the next couple of holidays.

 

Edited December 24, 2024 by GrandpaPhil