English Royal Yacht by Ab Hoving - CARD

[Ab Hoving]

The detailing is indeed amazing. The man used a reed-pen. Look at the hatching:

 

[Michael Mash]

All those drawings add up to plenty of inspiration.

The copy of the Van de Velde grisaille “enlarges” nicely.

It has an enormous amount of detail.

 

Back to your model  ………… you are a quick builder.

Looks like the gold leaf will work out well.

 

Mike

[wefalck]

Ab, you are a lucky man to receive such gifts!

 

Didn't Van de Velde the Older specialise in larges-size grisailles originally? I am quoting from memory and didn't check against my books on them.

 

And, compared to your speed of building I don't even look like snail, but more like a barnackle ...

[Ab Hoving]

5 hours ago, wefalck said:

Ab, you are a lucky man to receive such gifts!

Hallo Eberhardt,

 

I agree.

 

Indeed the Elder did the pen-paintings, his son painted in oil paint. Rumor has it that the Elder was not a guild member and was therefore not allowed to make paintings. I don't know if that is true. Later, after father and son moved to England in 1672 the father tried his hand on some paintings too, but without the excellence his son showed. The Elder witnessed several sea battles, but that the son also worked from nature can (among other proofs) be seen on my sketch from his hand.

 

Yes, working with paper is unbelievably fast compared with other materials. Probably the models won't last as long, but that is not my problem. I enjoy seeing them in the state I make them. It fits my sloppy nature.... 

Edited February 6 by Ab Hoving

[druxey]

The grisailles I was lucky enough to view were quite large; about 4' 0" high, if memory serves me right.

[firdajan]

On 2/6/2025 at 11:46 AM, Ab Hoving said:

Probably the models won't last as long, but that is not my problem. I enjoy seeing them in the state I make them. It fits my sloppy nature....

Let me to disagree a bit. My oldest paper ship model is 18 years old, is not in the showcase ( as all of my models ) and is without any changes. I think it will last for a long time.

But it is true that by my way of gluing and impregnation I actually produce paper plywood ( four layers of paper planking...😁)

[RdK]

Hi Jan,

 

Now that we started to count: my oldest card model is 40 years old this year and looks still (almost) the same ugly 😄 It is the Santa Maria and I posted a picture of it over at papermodelers in my Mayflower thread I think. It is as crooked as a small boy can make a ship 😅

 

But it is true that our card models will not last as long as the beautiful wooden ones. At least I do not think in 300 years from now anyone will posess any of my card models 😉

 

-R

 

 

 

[Ab Hoving]

Slow progress. Painting is tedious if you have to wait until it has all dried. Fortunately there are other things I can do in the times between, but life intervenes. Have to find more time (or more excuses to take time to build). Before gilding the beak head I use yellow paint underneath. Compared to the Dutch yachts the gilding is outrageous. Of course it's a matter of taste, but I think more failures can be masked with multicolored painting than by gilding alone. We will see if it all works out.

[firdajan]

On 2/8/2025 at 4:20 PM, RdK said:

But it is true that our card models will not last as long as the beautiful wooden ones. At least I do not think in 300 years from now anyone will posess any of my card models 😉

 

Sorry Radek, but I disagree again. I have a proof, you maybe know. There´s a Langweil´s model of Prague made of cartoon which still exist. Is 200 years old, and is in the perfect condition. You can find it on the net. I know, I also had a lot of paper models which are definitely lost. But I was young and I didn't know anything about how to care for models. If any model will be in care it will last a very long time, 300 - 400 years, and more, be sure. But I have to give you the truth - paper models will never be wooden😭 

 

Jan

[Ab Hoving]

I once restored a paper model from 1830. But paper was a whole different material in those days. There was no wood in it, so it lasted very long.

 

[wefalck]

But there are wood- and acid-free carboards these days. OK they are more expensive. I remember at least one art shop in Alkmaar that sells them.

[druxey]

Often watercolor paper is from rag and is acid-free. That shouldl last! Probably 'smooth press' is more suitable for models.

[Ab Hoving]

I use only very cheap materials: boxes from frozen pizzas, shoeboxes and such. Paper for water color painting is not particularly smooth, so it can't be used because of its rough surface and its more or less spongy material.

 

But indeed, the model I restored was done with leftovers, donated by a  Rijksmuseum Prentencabinet colleague conservator. At least 200 years old remains of restorations. Such paper was hand made out of rags, in a paper mill. Smooth as a baby skin. I doubt if such paper still exists.  It could be cut to very tiny threads and still did not fall apart or delaminated. And not a sign of aging. Wonderful stuff. 

 

Is it a problem that paper models don't last for ages? Not for me. I have seen too many wrecked wooden and metal models. Nothing lasts, we ourselves certainly not. Why worry? Just enjoy seeing a model grow in your hands...

Edited February 12 by Ab Hoving

[wefalck]

According to the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics everything will crumble away sooner or later - unless one spends energy and material on its upkeep (restoration is quasi periodic upkeep).

 

I agree that it is not so easy to find good quality paper and cardboard. I quite like Bristol-board, which is a wood- and acid-free cardboard that has a smooth calandered (rolled) surface. It is even more difficult to find very thin calandered paper - I have been hoarding supplies that came to me from deceased relatives and that may well be 60, 80, or even 100 years old.

 

Ab, as restorer is certainly painfully aware of this, that certain materials are simply not made anymore, because they are not used anymore or would be used only in such small quantities that it doesn't pay to make them. For instance I have been hunting down all over Europe a type of extremly fine and firm two-ply thread that was once used to darn ladies' stockings. Nobody bothers with mending stockings anymore, at least not with the old-time nearly invisble darning techniques, so that these yarns have disappeared from the market.  

 

Sorry, I am digressing ...

Edited February 12 by wefalck

[shipman]

5 hours ago, wefalck said:

According to the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics everything will crumble away sooner or later - unless one spends energy and material on its upkeep (restoration is quasi periodic upkeep).

 

I agree that it is not so easy to find good quality paper and cardboard. I quite like Bristol-board, which is a wood- and acid-free cardboard that has a smooth calandered (rolled) surface. It is even more difficult to find very thin calandered paper - I have been hoarding supplies that came to me from deceased relatives and that may well be 60, 80, or even 100 years old.

 

Ab, as restorer is certainly painfully aware of this, that certain materials are simply not made anymore, because they are not used anymore or would be used only in such small quantities that it doesn't pay to make them. For instance I have been hunting down all over Europe a type of extremly fine and firm two-ply thread that was once used to darn ladies' stockings. Nobody bothers with mending stockings anymore, at least not with the old-time nearly invisble darning techniques, so that these yarns have disappeared from the market.  

 

Sorry, I am digressing ...

A thin smooth, calendered stock is called 'Bank' paper, made largely from linen and originally specified for bank notes.

[Ab Hoving]

Finally I found the time to make some small steps for my 'royal yacht'.

In the mean time it is (again) clear to me that a hasty start with a model is not the best way to begin. Several odd things popped up, demanding time to find solutions.

The stern is taking shape, although doubts remain, in accordance with my overall feelings about this project.

 

I plan to add some graceful garlands to the black upper planking, but so far I failed. What I cut out of 0,5 card is too heavy, it must be much more frel (Is that a word? My Google translate says it is.) Anyway, I called in help from my son and Herbert Tomesen (Artitec), so we will see what he comes up with. 

 

Awaiting some action, but for so long: 'Shoemaker stick to your last'. This is an old saying, holding a lot of truth.

 

I was deeply impressed by the movie about Bob Dylan. My youth passed by. What a fantastic film and what a fantastic actor and what a fantastic singer/songwriter... I have been a fan ever since The times they are a changing. 1964?

 

 

Edited March 3 by Ab Hoving

[wefalck]

Must be a specialist, who sees any problem with the stern ...

 

I think that the 'garlands' would be a job for a laser-cutter or for photo-etching in brass ... or may be 3D-printing to obtain some plasticity. 

[Michael Mash]

Quote:  ……. “I was deeply impressed by the movie about Bob Dylan. My youth passed by. What a fantastic film and what a fantastic actor and what a fantastic singer/songwriter... I have been a fan ever since The times they are a changing. 1964?” …………. Ab Hoving

 

Yes.  If I recall correctly, "The Times They Are a-Changin'." Was written by Bob Dylan and recorded by him in 1964. 

Following up on that, it was then recorded by a group called “The Byrds”, in 1965.  They were known for singing many of Bob’s songs, but in their own unique style (I preferred their version).

Mike

 

[Ab Hoving]

On 3/3/2025 at 3:12 PM, wefalck said:

I think that the 'garlands' would be a job for a laser-cutter or for photo-etching in brass ... or may be 3D-printing to obtain some plasticity. 

That is exactly why I decided to ask help from professionals. I'll keep you posted Eberhard.

 

On 3/3/2025 at 6:21 PM, Michael Mash said:

(I preferred their version)

You are entitled to. Many artists covered his songs. But 'nobody sings Dylan like Dylan' (except perhaps the artist who played him in the movie: Timothee Chalamet, who even did the singing in this biopic himself). The movie 'A complete unknown' stirred a lot of feelings in me I had forgotten about. Even though I have Dylan's complete work (I think its 64 albums by now). I am an addict.

Edited March 4 by Ab Hoving

[Ab Hoving]

Time is moving fast and though there is some progress to show, many doubts still occur. I was also hindered by a rigging job on a frigate I still work on.

 

First my professional helpers delivered the garlands I asked for. I'm very grateful to them so the very thin curls were gilded and added to the model. The gold is still too bright, but once the hull is completely finished it wil get a wash of warm brown varnish, which will temper the looks. As I am used to the rather modest decorations on Dutch ships this excess of golden curls hurts my eyes a bit.

 

I did learn from this project: it was a wrong decision to use the plans I showed: they result in a variant with a square bulkhead in the bow instead of the top planking leading to the stem post. The former was only done in a later stage, when the ships became bigger and were equipped with two masts, while I was aiming for a model of around 1670. It was also a wrong decision to make four windows in the stern with no extra space between de middle two. If the rudder is supposed to be steered from the top deck like in this model, it has to pass the great cabin, partly covering the two central windows. A wider space between them would have been a much wiser option. Too late. Fortunately I did not promise you a model without any flaws... 

 

Furthermore I am struggling with the entrance to the main cabin and the size and shapes of the guns. First this entrance: I guessed that it was far below the king to bow in order to get inside, so a man-height entrance was an option. I just have to find out how it was decorated. I saw something like this on a 1701 model of the MMG.

Perhaps I will leave the guns out, perhaps not, I have not decided yet. On several locations they interfere with the rest of the deck furniture and I am trying to find locations with some logic in them. It is weird to place a pump besides the mast right behind a recoiling gun, or to find room for stairs with a gun so close by that there is no room for any feet. It is nice to know that there was a complete fleet of this sort of vessels, which releases me from the obligation to work after a specific ship. I like that sort of freedom.

 

 

I developed a theory about the introduction of yachts in England, after Charles II received two Dutch 'statenjachts' as a gift from the Amsterdam Lord mayor. He ordered an English 'translation' to be built by his shipbuilders resulting in a more luxurious and faster vessel for his pleasures. It seems logical to me that many things from the Dutch version were adopted. I mounted a horse (the horizontal beam a few inches above deck to attach the fore sail's sheet to) after Dutch design. I will get back to my theory once we are dealing with the rigging, which in the mean time was prepared as far as I could. So more on that item in a later stage.

Edited Tuesday at 03:24 PM by Ab Hoving

[Michael Mash]

I enjoy reading your notes about the process of making all the decisions.

Looks like you have not yet decided to include guns.  If you do, will the gun-barrels be made of card, paper or something else?

Mike

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  'Really super ! ... Its amazing to see what can be done in a card medium.

[Ab Hoving]

On 3/19/2025 at 5:04 PM, Michael Mash said:

Looks like you have not yet decided to include guns.  If you do, will the gun-barrels be made of card, paper or something else?

I certainly plan to make guns, and of course they will be made out of paper. In fact I quickly did try one, but I'm not happy with the size, compared to a human body in scale:

These were very small guns, without any significance for the defense of the ship. Just ceremonial I think and really tiny, like toys. That saves me the trouble of making rigging for them, they can be handled by hand.

And the nine garlands around the gun ports are misleading, I can place 8 guns at the most, the rest is just for show....

[Doreltomin]

Very nice modelling with card, Ab! As for the Stuart Royal Yachts, all of them except the smaller ones, namely the Dutch bezan and the Jemmy, were fitted with English three pounders - so not exactly toys, but still big and deadly enough, at least at short range, therefore your gun looks quite right for the scale!

 

Remember the yachts typically had round ports with no port lids as unlike on warships the regular position of the gun was not retracted inside the gundeck, but the gun bore was plugged with a tompion and the gun was extended outside with the port made watertight with an oiled cloth turned around the gun.

 

Also most of the Stuart yachts typically had eight guns (four each side), only the latter ketch rigged yachts had more than eight. So to my eyes the tiller deck of your yacht looks too long, it should have been shorter and the aft deck drawn aft just one meter as to have all the eight guns on the lower deck, as only the Fubbs (which had ketch rigging) had this arrangement with actually two pairs of guns on the aft deck.

 

Also these confusing garlands were either just added decorations but also sometimes hidden ventilation holes for cabins and/or even supplementary gunports for one pair of guns to be added (or moved from the deck) to the aft cabin. So they had either plugs (even decorated to look like guns) or hinged lids which could open to the inside.

 

Hope this helps!

[druxey]

Here is a 3-pounder of the period in two scales:

 

 

The barrel was 4' 0" long. Hope this helps you, Ab!

[Ab Hoving]

This is one of the great side-effects of forums on the internet: help for free. Thank you both @Doreltomin and David (@druxey) for your help.

Doreltomin: I agree that my aft deck is too long, causing big problems with the stairs to the lower part in front. I will see if I can replace the bulkhead, but I am heavily hindered by the fact that the standing rigging is almost done. This is really a beginners mistake, starting a build before thinking over the consequences of the early choice for a drawing. I'm really playing an away match. This would not have happened to me building a Dutch ship. 🙂

I am also happy with the information of how the guns were placed with the cloth wrapped around them in the gun port. I already found out that most of the decorated garlands on this ship were in fact fake, or serving different purposes than just giving way for a gun.

 

Thank you David for your drawing of the small gun. I was not aware of this type of gun-carriage. I was however aware of the 3-pounder gun we had in the Rijksmuseum collection. I nearly broke my back on it, when I tried to hang it on a specially made iron stool mounted on the wall of one of the History halls. The hubris of youth!

I will try my hand on this one, hoping for a better result.

[shipman]

Ab, your images are PNG files one minute, then jpeg's.

Would it be possible to make them all jpegs, please (it makes life easier for me, at least).

Thank you. Love your card methods.

[Ab Hoving]

Hi @shipman,

I never heard this before.

The pictures I take with my telephone are all 2 or 3 mb, too big for forum use. So I cut the relevant parts and use 'adjust size', which apparently makes them png.

I don't know how to do it in a way that fits you.

Do you mean my pictures in the thread disappear?

If you want I can send you the original ones in a pm. Or you can explain how I still keep jpegs, but with a lower resolution.

Edited 6 hours ago by Ab Hoving

[Doreltomin]

You can alternatively convert an image in almost any known image format (jpg, png, bmp, tiff, avi, gif, webp etc)  using the "Paint" software which comes as as an accessory with every Windows, so if you have a computer or a laptop with Windows you only need to download the images from your phone. Problem solved!

[Baker]

2 hours ago, Ab Hoving said:

Hi @shipman,

I never heard this before.

The pictures I take with my telephone are all 2 or 3 mb, too big for forum use. So I cut the relevant parts and use 'adjust size', which apparently makes them png.

I don't know how to do it in a way that fits you.

Do you mean my pictures in the thread disappear?

If you want I can send you the original ones in a pm. Or you can explain how I still keep jpegs, but with a lower resolution.

 

i use this.
very easy to use, even for me 😉