Landlubber Mike's technique for furled sails

[Landlubber Mike]

Mike, at one point you asked the question about lines attached to the clue points and what they were.

 

One is the clue line, which is used to haul the sail up into the furled position. For large sails this would go through a block at the clue and back up to the top of the spar. On smaller sails such as the royal they probably did not need a block and tackle.

 

The second line would be the sheet (to control the set of full sails. It would go downwards to a sheave in the spar below. It is probably the one you were thinking of. However, I really think that to add both of these lines would make things more complicated. I am using them for the full topsails on my model, but the whole thing is very 'busy'.

 

I am starting to use your method to at least add some furled sails for the royal and topgallant positions.

Thanks again for posting your excellent work!

Hi again Jay, sorry I missed this response earlier.

 

What confused me earlier was the configuration in the kit plans for how the clew lines and sheets and their related blocks were run - essentially, the clue line is fixed to the spar towards the end, travels downward to the clew block (from which the sheet is run), then back upward to the clue block on the spar near the middle of the spar, forming a triangle.  The triangle is fictitious really, and is there only because the kit's plans show a typical model without sails.

 

Actual sails had the clew block attached to the cringle of the clew of the sail, and the sheet or tack (depending on the sail) was run through the cringle.  The diagrams from pages 82-82 of the Lennarth Petersson book are very helpful, but unfortunately I can't find the online version to post pictures.

 

So, what I ended up doing with my sails is that I added the cringles to the clews of the sails, attached a clew block at the sail clew (and for the fore course a sheet block as well), then ran the sheets through the cringles, knotting them at one end so that they stayed locked at the cringle (for the fore course, I ran the tack).  It took me a long while to wrap my head around all this, but I think this is how it all works.  You're right that it does make for a busy section at the furled sail clew.  I've seen a few models with furled sails where the sail clew was omitted, perhaps because of the "busy-ness" at that point, or perhaps because it makes things a bit more complicated.

[Modeler12]

I think I understand everything you mentioned. And indeed it does make it a busy show.
 

In my case it gets even more complicated because the three topsails I have going also have additional lines such as the buntlines (one on each side) that are also used to furl the sail. And two more (for the same purpose) along the side edges of the sail (leechlines). Not to mention the bowlines and the reef tackles.

It is a real rat's nest where this all comes together at the mizzen mast (that is also where the various lines for the spanker sail join the crowd).

[Landlubber Mike]

I added buntlines to the topsails and the fore course.  Rather than knotting the end of the line and running it through the buntline blocks at the top of the mast like you would do per the kit instructions, I glued a portion of the line onto the sail and ran it through the buntline blocks before furling the sails.  Unfortunately the example I showed in the beginning of the thread was for the topgallant sails, which didn't have buntlines.

 

I skipped the bowlines and reef tackles.  You're a brave man if you are going to add them  I will likely add a combination of furled, partially furled and full sails to my next build, so I'll be following your techniques closely.

[Landlubber Mike]

Wow, I just came across this webpage where the builder's sails are absolutely amazing and put mine to shame.  The website is in italian, and I can't seem to get Google translate to work on it, but the pictures tell the story.  For the squeamish, don't scroll down on page 2

 

http://www.deagostinipassion.com/forum/posts/list/50/23263.page

[popeye2sea]

Mike, I find it even more amazing when you read further and find that the model is made that way (with removable masts) for delivery purposes.  I would hate to have to re-rig that ship.

[Landlubber Mike]

Oh, he made it collapsible?  I was worried that his model was damaged, whew!

 

Did you manage to get Google translator to work?  Or do you speak Italian?  I would love to find a translated version for reference on my next build - which, at the rate that I proceed at, will likely be in 5-10 years

Edited January 8, 2014 by Landlubber Mike

[popeye2sea]

Google Chrome translated the page, but very poorly.  The general meaning is discernible though.

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks, I'll have to try that out.

[Modeler12]

Mike, you started this thread (and great research) for furling sails. Thanks for all that work and, if I may, let me add the following:

 

I have wanted to make some changes to my model and decided to take your approach. The reasons don't matter (later in my built log), but I found your approach good enough to give it a try. However, it did mean taking a lot of my rigging apart with new lines and some blocks. Time consuming but thus far: well spentt!!!

 

If you don't mind, and all credits are going your way, my friend, here are a couple comments with pictures:

1. I did make a few blunders with my mizzen spars, I used too much glue as I tried to 'furl' and gather the sail, No pictures, please.

2. When I did the same procedure with the foremast (my Connie) I decided to add some water to the sail cloth. This made it easier to 'gather' the sail and clamp it for a while.

3. After the moisture died, the sail stayed pretty much in a position that I had clamped it.

4. So the next step was to add the furl lines (or what ever they are called) to hold the sail to the spar.
A touch of CA held them in place. I added the sheet lines, but will wait to reeve them through the lower spar sheaves until the spars are in place on the mast.

Again, this is your great idea, Mike, and I did not want to impose, but just add to what you have presented.

[Landlubber Mike]

Jay, thanks very much for sharing - they came out great, and look better than mine  Certainly not imposing at all.  I like the color of your sails, and the seams in them.  Very nice!  Happy that you were able to borrow a little from my post to do your fine work.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Landlubber Mike

[Ian B]

Thank you Mike for taking the time to create this conversation.

 

This is one task looming up on my Bounty build and this thread has been great in getting right in my head before attempting it, I intend to furl all the top sails and mizzen, a slightly gathered sprit sail and possibility have the main sail and fore main sail fully deployed-- apologies for the non nautical terms and the non standard deployment of sails-- just thought it would look good.

[Ulises Victoria]

Unfortunately, the photos in post 39 had disappeared.

[ianmajor]

I have dropped a PM to Jay to ask him if he would kindly reinstate the images - assuming he has kept copies.

 

Edit update - my PM was bounced. I guess his allocated space is full.

Edited July 30, 2014 by ianmajor

[Landlubber Mike]

Ian B, I hope it helps.  I had searched but really couldn't find too many in-depth sail tutorials, so I thought I would share my approach.  I think sails, furled or not, add a very nice look to the model and are well worth the extra time.  I'm probably going to go with a mix of furled and unfurled sails on my next builds, as you are thinking - just be aware that if you are using full sails, there are a number of other lines that may need to be installed.  If you come up with new techniques, feel free to share them on this thread - I'm always looking to improve my work.  

 

Good luck!

[Sjors]

Thanks for this Mike,

 

I'm almost at the part that I have to make the yards with the sails for my San Ildefonso.

I wanted to do furled sails but didn't know how.

Now I know   

Thanks !

 

[Sjors]

Question   

 

When you do furled sails on the jib boom and Gaff ,is that the same as what you are doing with the bowsprit sails ????

So the sail goes furled on the jib boom and goes up a little?

Or am I totally wrong ?

 

Sjors

[Jack12477]

I'll add my Thank You as well. Nice tutorial, Mike

 

Jack

[Landlubber Mike]

Sjors, for the fore topsail and jibsail, I installed the sail (cut to a much smaller dimension) to the related line and then furled the sails by pulling them down the line and adding the creases, etc.

[Redbeard]

Mike

 

Just another "thank you" for all your input/research/R&D on this subject. This will definitely be of help on future builds...just can't wait to get started.

 

Maybe one of our illustrious moderators will pin this thread.

 

John 

[KenW]

I have been following, and enjoying, this thread.  I'm in the process of adding furled sails on my Fair American and your 'lectures' are invaluable.

One comment, a guy in my modeling club, who has navel experience, said that the flag pole on the stern that would indeed interfere with the boom was only raised when the boat was in harbor.  Once under way, the flag pole and flag was stowed.  I believe the flag was hoisted up to the end of the gaff.

[KenW]

Do you have the number of the "thinnest weight cotton (muslin I think) that I could find at JoAnn's Fabrics"?  I don't have a store nearby, and I can't see and feel the fabric before I buy on the JoAnn" website.

Thanks.

[Landlubber Mike]

Unfortunately I don't.  If I had to do it again, I'd search for even thinner material, like the thinnest handkerchief material I could find.

 

On your earlier flag comment, I didn't add a flag pole to my Badger.  I just attached the flag to the end of the gaff, with, if I remember correctly, lines that ran down to cleats on the bulwarks.  Either way, with the sails furled, the ship could be viewed as at harbor.

[KenW]

Thanks for replying.  Handkerchief material and women's summer blouses seem to be the favorites.  But you need to feel the fabric.

This weekend I found an old curtain that looks to be prefect.  It was washed a lot and it "hung around" for many years.  I guess you can't beat old age.

As to the flag, I've seen old pictures of ships in harbor with the flag flown from a pole and from the end of the gaff.  I suspect it was the captain's choice.

Thanks again.

[Spiff]

Hi Mike thanks for this great description of sail making. Im just starting on the rigging of my Golden Star and will soon have to decide on sails. My question to you is how do furled staysails look like. You made one, but that went to th bowspit - im wondering about the top staysails between two masts - they just sort of hang in midairfrom only one line (which even seems to be a standing-rigging line). As you can probably tell, im a novice who doesnt know much about ships.

Hope you can help.

[Landlubber Mike]

Hi Shaun,

 

Not sure exactly at the moment, I'd have to take a look at some of my books (the Harland book has a lot of great pictures of sails in various positions).  Maybe take a look here - I think there is a picture of a furled staysail in the first set of pictures:

 

http://www.charleswmorganmodel.com/cwm-museum---as-she-is-now.html

[KenW]

Shawn and Mike:  It is my understanding that except for the forward staysails, which were more like jibs, the staysails were not furled, but taken down and stowed.  Interesting to hear other opinions.

Cheers.

[KenW]

I just did some research - in Lees on page 123, he shows how staysails were furled.  Either the brails served as the downhauler or the downhaul line served as the brail.  The sail was pulled forward down to the mast and then gaskets were used.

Most drawings I have seen do not show staysails, so I still believe they spent most of their time stowed below.

Cheers, 

[Spiff]

Hi Mike and Ken. Thanks for answers. As this is myfirst large(ish) ship, I might leave the staysails stoved out of sight :-)

[rschissler]

Just wondering if Mike or anyone else has anymore comments on this topic?  I'm planning to do furled sails on my model and will probably follow some of the guide here.  Any opinions on what lines and blocks for the sails to eliminate, or definitely keep?  The instructions on my model don't have any sails at all, or any of the blocks associated with the sails, so I'm up for any more ideas.

[mtaylor]

rschissler,

 

You might take a look at this article:  http://modelshipworldforum.com/resources/Rigging_and_Sails/ScaleSails.pdf   some of the links are dead but it may give you some insight.