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HMS Montague/ Alfred class by Gary B - 74 gun ship built in 1779 (garyshipwright)


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Thanks Mark it is Astonishing what they did with just a adze and a two man saw. . They were real craftmens of their time. A really good you tube video on how they did it is of Leo rebuilding the Tally ho and have enjoy watching him from the very start. Not every thing they do is just like 1760 but does give you that feeling and of course they use electrical. Now if only we can get Jim to make us one of those shipbuilding band saws that they use for building our little ships. Of course don't pay any attention to the fork lift.  😊 I think the bird is the real star and after you  watch some of it am sure you would agree. 😍

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Gary,

 

I see you changed the name of your build to HMS Montague/Alfred Class. I am curious, since I don't know the history of this class. Was the Montague before or after the Alfred, and were there major differences in decoration, etc.?

 

Best wishes,

 

Mark

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Hi Mark.  If you go to page one in the log I put Montague history there for other's to read and probably need to add Montague plans there. I did add photo's of her stern and bow. If your interested in what the rest of her looked like let me know and will put some of her full sheer plan up. Montague came after Alfred by a year and yes there was a major differences in the decoration. Both of them was built from the same water lines as far as what I have research on the plans them self.  As far as the decoration goes, since I have not  reach that point they should not be to  hard to do, just have to figure out what is what. if I was further along with the stern and bow I probably would not have done the change.  I take some photos to show you the carvings .I have been using her plan's along with Alfred  and it does seem that there are more detail plans of her then Alfred. Another thing is that Montague is rare compared to Alfred which also may of had some thing to do with the change. Also  another  thing that help my decision with the change was the Swan books were they build the class plan and by changing  the carvings they came up with a different swan ship. There may be a few more things that might be different and will cross that path when I get to it. That good sir is my story and am sticking to it. 😊 Thank you for asking.  Gary 

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Hi Christian. If you go to the first page of the log, maybe the second post I made, you should see what the decoration of her stern and bow. I will put up Montague photo's of her sheer for you as soon as I have a cup of coffee and wake up good sir. If you want I can also PM them to you along with putting them up on the log. Gary

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Well I am not sure if I should put  the photo's here or at the beginning and probably just do both. Just to give you some info on the plans Montagu was built at Chatham launch and copper in 1779.  Some of the plans show her Large repair in 1803 so figuring out how she was framed and planked when she was built.For some reason some of the photos turn them self's up side down and if one of the mod's can help me fix that I would be most thankful   GaryDSC_0408.thumb.JPG.853b8bad4bca951ca3c84e69e9d74b88.JPG

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Wow, those are beautiful, Gary. I see why you chose this one. And I see it has a smooth, serpentine curve on the stern balcony, just like the original Bellona. The later Bellona brought the balcony in to a sharp corner at the frame ends, which I don't think is as graceful as the one you and I will be building.

 

Mark

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Thanks Mark she is good looking. While going over the stern of her I noticed that the bottom out side windows are larger and thought, well wonder if the increase the width of the upper counter and after looking and comparing the two, the outside pieces are not as wide as what's on Alfred allowing them to build bigger windows.  Some thing else I took a hard close look at was the framing of the two and it seems they was framed with the same framing plan which I think was the Alfred plan. I did find a couple of cast top timber's that was on Montagu but this framing plan is when she had a large rebuild in 1803, so not sure if they were there before or after.  The plans are black and white so it makes it just a little on the hard side. 

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Interesting arrangement of the timberheads and 'embryo rails' on the poop deck. I've not seen that before. And nice detail shown of the pantry on quarterdeck level around the mizzen mast and upper well on the orlop.

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She does have some nice detail druxey but some thing else I noticed is the hand pump which in front of the  aft chain pump and goes up to the upper deck. Alfred didn't have that detail and read some of them had those hand pumps and others didn't.  Since Alfred doesn't show this and Montuga does, does not mean that Alfred had one? Another one of those question that I have been looking for a answer, but yet to find one. Well seems that question on Montuga answer that but still very interested in a answer if there is one. Maybe a best guess. 😭 Gary

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Hello every one. Need some thought's on this and maybe a little input. The carlings that was installed on the sides of the bow sprit on the upper deck, I believe to keep it locked in place from shifting side ways, maybe or just to support the ledges on the outside. Most plans don't t show nothing like ledges between them to support the planking. Come to think of it most plans don't show ledges at all, at least not any that I have looked at. Any ideal's?  I drew up what I thought may of been there to support the deck planks around the bow sprint, but can not find any info on what was there. Am sure they filled in between with ledges, but just want some thought's on it. I looked in the swan books and a few more but unsure. Thanks in advance. Don't be to hard on my drawing  and who knows maybe in my next life time I come back as Michelangelo😁

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I tend to believe they did not for this "horizontal" mast as with everything I've seen (looked at) in the last couple of years did not seem to indicate any such bracing.  ("correction": I originally referred to this as a vertical mast which was an error on my part. Now I need to get a brain tuneup)

 

I imagine that between locking the foot in place in it's step, the gammoning bindings, and the bowsprit shrouds, it t'weren't go'in nowhere.

 

Waiting to read what the more experienced modellers have to say... as I am unfortunately not one of those.

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Hi Alan. I do think that they  had what I think was at least a box like bracing  around the vertical mast and called it  a collar beams. , to have a collar beam afore at the heights of the ports, 11 inches square, kneed at each end with on substantial iron knee, bolted with six saucer headed bolts of 1 inch diameter, or have two stantions run down to a cant on the upper deck and half beams with a rabbitt for the plank of the beakhead, as shall be directed. Mark has a photo of the Bellona beak head that show those  two stantions .  do believe that had a hard time getting a collar beam and settled on the Stanction's. This is a earlier photo before I started the deck over and tore all of this out. Thanks Alan but I believe you are  experienced modeller and thanks for all the help you do give me. 

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Mark, thank you for the vote of confidence. :blush:      I will refer to it the next time I am in doubt (which is often).

 

I made an error in my post, corrected it and added a note identifying it.  (Horizontal, horizontal, horizontal, .......... ad nauseam :default_wallbash: )

 

I admit I was aware of the collar beam, and so possibly should have added it to the list, but I suspect the bowsprit passes clearly under it as it might be difficult to install if it didn't.

 

I'll be copying your photo if you don't mind.

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Well, no matter what framng there is around the bowsprit as it passes through the deck, there has to be a solid 'landing' for the deck planking. There is a hint of what might be the structure in Longridge's The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships, Plate 30. One can see the carligns on each side of the bowsprit and the ledges on each side. I suspect that solid pieces of wood filled the elliptical space between the carlings and bowsprit. (Think of the mast partners, but elongated.)

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Had the book opened and under a short stack of others on the side table to my right.

 

Found plate 30 (photo) and it took me a moment to register the bowsprit passing through on the left hand side. 

 

That oriented me, and then I understood what I was seeing ... prior to that all I registered was a table, two chairs, and what looked like a possible pigeon coop... or really big chickens.  :rolleyes:

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Hi Gary,

 

I just caught up on your postings. It sure is helpful to see you working on all of the things that I know are are coming next for me! I will look around a little to see if I find anything about where the bowsprit goes through the deck....

 

It is looking great, including the beakhead bulkhead framing!

 

Mark

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