Venetian Carrack or Cocha by woodrat - FINISHED - 1/64

[Louie da fly]

Just found a better definition pic from Barbari's scene of Venice 1500 which might be of use to you. It's at http://www.veniceboats.com/jar/navi-grosse-2-navi-tonde-e-2-galee-da-jacopo-de-barbari.html - it gives a very nice idea of how enormous the main yard is.

 

Steven

[woodrat]

Sorry, Steven. I cant access that link. But I think I know the image referred to. As you allude, many models of carracks underestimate the length of the mainyard which is made of two timbers fished together like  lateen yards.

 

Here are some pictures showing the bracing for the transversal bitt. The bitt is not bolted in but is wedged in placed. This allows some slight movement of the bitt which protects the side timbers. It also allows removal of the bitt if required.

 

 

 

 

  the stern timbers incomplete

 

 

Dick

Edited April 28, 2014 by woodrat

[Louie da fly]

That's beautiful detailed work. Along with many others, I'm sure, I'm awed by the quality of the work. I don't know whether I'll ever be able to achieve the level of quality and craftsmanship demonstrated here.

 

 

Steven

 

BTW, I tried the link above again and it worked for me. Maybe there's a problem with your server?

[woodrat]

The outside planking of the hull is complete. The next step is the main deck, hawse holes and transom framing

 

 

 

 

 

 

The spaces between the protruding main deck beams will become scuppers. I have no idea what form the deck waterways will take yet.

 

Dick

Edited May 30, 2014 by woodrat

[Cristiano]

Hello Dick,

you are doing a marvellous work.

I discovered your "shipyard" very late.

 

If you are looking for some additional material (scarce) in the web, I suggest to search using the old venetian term used for the carrack: the ancient Italians didn't use the term carrack or "caracca" for this type of merchant ship.

They used the term "nave tonda" (mainly the venetians) or "cocca".

So all the ancient documents in Italian language refers always to "navi tonde" and so the paintings.

 

The man in the below link should be looked closely, since it is one of the main hystorical experts of ancient venetian ships.

it is a ship modeller, too!

below the link of its own "nave tonda" model (nearly missed by Steven ):

http://www.veniceboats.com/it-modelli-navi-antiche.htm

 

and below the link to the project plans, on which you will find a "nave tonda" (the first one)

http://www.veniceboats.com/it-progetti-piani-navi-grosse.htm

 

maybe something can be still of interest for you, even if it is too late.

[woodrat]

Many thanks, Christiano.  At your suggestion I have renamed my log. S. Penzo's nave tonda is magnificent and puts mine in the shade. I have his book. I did try to contact Signor Penzo a couple of years ago but he did not answer the email. Maybe I should try again. One of my ambitions is to work up to a fully framed nave as S. Penzo has done. But it is a massive project. Perhaps I could do the Contarina I ship. At least the plans should be available. I will soldier on with the Trombetta nave tonda. Dick

Edited May 31, 2014 by woodrat

[woodrat]

not much progress. Waterways and scuppers next, I think

 

[captainbob]

Nice looking hull.  Well done.

 

Bob

[woodrat]

Nice looking hull.  Well done.

 

Bob

Thanks, Bob. It has a rustic charm, I suppose! The colour may be too light. What do you think?

Dick

[cpt. Tom]

brilliant craftsmanship , incredibly. I will follow this build log with great interest. I like the half ship, that looks very good.

[Louie da fly]

I think the colour is very good - it points up many detals that would otherwise be missed in a darker vessel, and the contrast is in keeping with the original Trombetta picture - and I find it interesting that the deck beams and the wales aren't in line with each other near the bow, just as in the Trombetta picture.

 

Keep up the good work. It's a pleasure to watch the progress of this model.

[Doreltomin]

Hello Woodrat,

 

It's good to see you started again this project, this time as a full model. Looks good so far, keep up the good work! I also like the colour of the bulwark. Insofar I know, the wood outside the water was treated with a compound which, if I am right, in Italian, Provencal and Catalan, otherwise said the north-mediterranean languages is called "harpuse" and includes resin from conifer trees, therefore giving the wood a pleasant yellow-reddish colour.

 

One more word regarding the name.It is not taken from anywhere else instead it is my own thinking as I have always loved to link words from different cultures and search for their primary meaning. So please judge this with your own mind and conclude for yourself if my theory is misleading or not. So....

 

The name Carrack may sound confusing, although it is the same in all European languages. It is Carrack in English, Carraca in Italian, Kraeck in the famous engraving of the Flemish Master William Croce.  I have seen Nenad's comment up there and it is the same in Croatian as well. It is confusing for us Europeans because actually this name comes from Syriac, a language of the Close East. If you have ever heard of he "Krak des Chevaliers", originally known as "Krak de L'Hospital" (search for the link on Wikipedia)  then you are close to the original name of the ship.

 

"Krak" in Syriac originally meant "fortified castle" and the name was later borrowed for naval use, where a "Carrack" was a fortified ship suitable for war, otherwise said, a warship. Therefore a Carrack can well practically have the same lines as a large "Nao" yet what makes the difference is her main purpose, the Nao being primarily a merchant vessel while the Carrack was meant primarily for war.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Doreltomin

[woodrat]

I think the colour is very good - it points up many detals that would otherwise be missed in a darker vessel, and the contrast is in keeping with the original Trombetta picture - and I find it interesting that the deck beams and the wales aren't in line with each other near the bow, just as in the Trombetta picture.

The fact that the beams cross the wales confirms to me that Zorzi Trombetta drew his sketch from life and probably while the nave was in drydock( hence the unplanked area between the main wales). This is one of the reasons that I chose this sketch as a basis for a model. Most other paintings are by professional artists interested in aesthetics whereas Zorzi was primarily interested in recording the craft of shipbuilding.

 

Doreltomin. Thanks for the scholarly breakdown on the derivation of Carrack, with which I substantially agree. However, when you say: "The nao being primarily a merchant vessel while the carrack was primarily built for war", it does not take into account that in the late middle ages, mediterranean round ships ( naos or naves or nefs) were sometimes hired or recruited as warships even though they were built as merchant vessels. This is because it was soon realised that the high freebord of the round ship was a great protection against the low slung galleys of the corsairs. Only later were purpose built round hulled warships developed. It is a fascinating topic, isn't it?

Dick

[captainbob]

Thanks, Bob. It has a rustic charm, I suppose! The colour may be too light. What do you think?

Dick

 

I like natural wood, although I paint most of my boats.  I am not familiar with carracks so I do not know what is correct I only know I like it as it is.

 

Bob

[Doreltomin]

@ Woodrat: re-reading my previous post it became obvious that my English has betrayed me. Actually what I wanted to point is that the difference between the Nao and the Carrack can be... minor to non-existent. A "Carrack" can be a certain ship loaded with soldiers and prepared for war, yet the same ship can be used primarily for transport while retaining her armament as a protection of her cargo. Practically the external appearance would be the same. Not to mention that in most Latinic languages "Nao" (Nave) means "ship" and hence applies to all ships regardless purpose.

 

And yes I agree with you that the high bulwarks of these ships were somehow effective against the attack of pirates from a low galley. However, the galley was much faster and could move even against the wind. So the high bulwarks alone were not effective except if there were a lot of soldiers on the deck ready to fight the pirates. 

 

I am recently turned home after a week of vacation on the western coast of Greece on the Ionian Sea. Here I have visited a nice gulf called "Sarakiniko" which alludes in its name of the Sarrazine pirates which once raided the Mediterranean. There's not only one gulf called like this, there are many of them, which hints of how elusive these pirats were. They could do this despite the power of the Byzantine, Venitian or Genoese ships which guarded these seas because of their low, fast ships.

[Louie da fly]

Just found another couple of carrack pictures that may add to the sum of available info on carracks - attached.  The first picture is "The caulking of a Venetian round ship" from Peregrinatio in Terram Sanctam (travels in the Holy Land) - a 15th century coloured woodcut by Bernhard Breidenbach (Erich Lessing/ Art Resource NY) - there's a better copy of it at http://mitpress.mit.edu/sites/default/files/titles/content/9780262123082_sch_0001.pdf .

 

I don't know the source of the other picture - I found it on an Italian website relating to Venice's history. I hope these are helpful and of use.

 

Steven

 

BTW I hadn't realised that nave tonda is just another way of saying nave rotonda - "round ship"! 

Edited June 21, 2014 by Louie da fly

[woodrat]

This is an unusual and very interesting model and we should build more models of Carracks of this era.

 

And not necessarily call them Santa Maria! There are no sources which detail the exact configuration of the Santa Maria, of which there are many models( although were it not for all the obsession with this ship, we would not know nearly as much about these vessels), yet there are excellent pictures of naos (naves, nefs, cocha, carracks,etc.) which give the modeller excellent fuel for creativity. The Mathew is a good example of what can be done.

 

Steven, the Breidenbach hull is interesting as it shows a curved sternpost like a galley so presumably it had a curved galley style rudder. The second picture  comes from the British Museum collection.

Dick

 

 

Edited June 22, 2014 by woodrat

[Farbror Fartyg]

This thread should be on display in all maritime museums around the world.

 

Suuuper interesting. 

 

Thank you all for sharing your knowledge.

[woodrat]

thanks, Farbror . Most of what we talk about regarding mediaeval ships is guesswork but it is very interesting. Here are my ideas about why the deck beams are projecting. I think this is how they may have done the scuppers in the waist. The scuppers exit between the deck beams and are lined with leather or lead.

Dick

 

Edited July 9, 2014 by woodrat

[woodrat]

The main deck planking in white maple. Dick

 

[Vivian Galad]

Nice progress in there! And it´s really a great ship.

[woodrat]

Thanks. Vivian.

 Here are some pictures of the main hatch. I tried to keep in mind the practicalities of a hatch which would have to be manhandled by a brace of sailors. The overall shape is that seen on the Mataro Nao. The individual sections of the hatch could be lifted by two men. Bear in mind that the overall scale of the model is approximately 1:64.

Cheers, Dick

Edited December 26, 2017 by woodrat

[woodrat]

slow progress because of work committments. Hull is complete. Next job is to install rudder and some accommodation in stern. Where should the galley be positioned? Dick

through the rudder port.

[woodrat]

Further progress on the sterncastle of my Carrack ( nave tonda)

note the two knights at the stern. These are seen in the original illustration

Edited September 29, 2014 by woodrat

[Vivian Galad]

Dick, that´s a great job interpreting the original illustration. I´ve tried to sort some things out from some old junk ilustrations and that´s really hard to understand some details. I´m reading Lazló/Woodman The Story of Sails and find it interesting how they depict the venetian ships - all beamed through the hulls, as yours, but not the genoese, as if they were an endemic venetian characteristic.

 

PS. What´s that ribcage behind your Nave Tonda?

[woodrat]

Thanks, Vivian. I am sorry that I cannot fully answer your question about genoese navi of the fifteenth century. What I can say is that not all vessels of this type are shown in illustrations with projecting deck beams. This means that either they did not have them or they were covered by a concealing strake. So the modeller can choose whether to depict them or not and still be correct. The "rib-cage" behind my nave is the presently neglected hull of the Gros Ventre, put on hold while I complete the nave.

Dick

Edited October 5, 2014 by woodrat

[woodrat]

I have put some accommodation beneath the half-deck.

Dick

 

[Louie da fly]

This is a really beautiful build, Dick. Little bit by ittle bit everything is coming together. It's going to be a really magnificent model when it's complete.

 

I like the fact that the upper deck follows the slight curve of the wales. It adds to the beauty of the vessel.

 

Steven

Edited October 7, 2014 by Louie da fly

[woodrat]

Thanks, Steven. Next is a part of the ship dear to heart of Louie da Fly: the heads, those vulgar tubes so necessary and often detectable in some illustrations. Some illustrations show projections from the sterncastle much as are seen in the gardrobes of mediaeval castles or jar-like containers also projecting which are probably part of the sanitary arrangements. I believe these rounded projections are ceramic bowls which acted as pissdales or urinals for the gentlemen aft of the mainmast. Between these rounded "pots" are often seen box like ventilated structures accessible from the poop deck where I believe are the seats of ease.

.

These projecting necessary seats are not seen in the Trombetta nave so the seats of ease for the ships VIPs must be internal with lead lined "drops" through the curved base to either side of the rudder

It is these internal arrangements that I will build into the stern.

 

Dick

Edited November 3, 2014 by woodrat

[woodrat]

this is the tiller and steering mechanism. This ship would predate the whipstaff. The large rudder would not be controllable without the tackles.

Edited November 3, 2014 by woodrat