Victory by mikec - FINISHED - Mamoli

[mikec]

Happy new year everyone , I am taking a break from my Endeavour build to finally finish off my victory (as seen in gallery)

 

I have added jack staff and ensigns, and completed stand.i am working on quarter davits, fore and main ensigns,then finally ships launch. cheers Mike

Edited January 1, 2014 by mikec

[aliluke]

Amazing and nice touches on the base board Mike. How many years went into this? However many they are all worth it!

 

Cheers

Alistair

[mikec]

Hi Alistair, thanks for looking. I have been working on this for over 10 years off and on. To the untrained eye she looked finished, but I knew there was still a few details to add. i am going to display her in the Devonport Naval Museum as they dont have a model of the Victory, and enspired by the other great Victory builds i thought i had better complete her. the base has copper coin made from actual copper from the victory and the rudder and some of the larger blocks I made from a slug of oak from the Victory too that a friend gave me. i will post more progress pics as I complete her during my holiday break. the ships launch will be scratch built and a project in itself. 

 

cheers Mike

Edited January 2, 2014 by mikec

[mikec]

Can anyone please help me?

I can't find anywhere instructions as to the correct method to attach flags and pendants. i have fitted the large flag to the mizzen gaff as indicated by Longridge, and the union jack to the jack staff.

 

But dont know where or how to fit the two other flags (St Georges Cross and pendant) 

 

• I want to know how they were attached to the stays (as I have seen on some models), or how they were fitted to masts tops or where in fact they should go

• what rigging or blocks are needed (if any)

• and where do the downhaul uphaul lines belay to...

 

I have a wooden peg (like a duffle coat has) at the top corner of each flag and a loop at the bottom.(I have seen this set up on many other flags) see photo of flag attached to mizzen

 

I have attached diagram me of what i mean re flag positions. thanks guys

Edited January 2, 2014 by mikec

[Blue Ensign]

Hello Mike, I think I can help with the flags.

 

Nelson was a Vice Admiral of the White, and certainly at Trafalgar Victory would have worn the White Ensign at the Gaff as you have indicated. The St George's Cross was the rank flag for a Vice Admiral of the White and was worn at the Fore topmast head.

 

The long pennant was worn at the Main topmast head and was kept flying at all times a ship was in commission.

 

Whether the Union Pennant as you show, or the White Pennant as applicable to Nelson, was worn is not certain, although personally I would go with a White Pennant.

 

The Union Flag was usually only worn at the Jack staff when a ship was in harbour, and I would certainly have it at the Jack Staff on a bare stick model.

 

At Trafalgar however, Nelson ordered all ships to suspend the jack from the Fore topmast stays, to aid identification.

 

Hope this helps.

 

B.E.

[gjdale]

Mike,

 

B.E. has answered on which flags where. As far as "how" goes, I believe that haliards were run through sheaves in the Mast trucks (the bit on top of the masts).

[mikec]

Thank you guys. BE that clears up the where.thanks heaps. Thanks Grant. I just need to know where the halyards belayed and how a flag was attached and hoisted up a stay...

[Patrick Haw]

Beautiful work Mike, seriously good.  I can't offer anything on the flags and pennants.  Just wanted to admire!

 

Patrick

[Chuck]

They were attached the same way you did the other flags.   The penants and flags that flew off the masts were in fact attached to un through sheaves in the ball trucks.   These are the caps on the tops of each mast.   They were belayed in the tops usually to a shroud cleat or to the rail in the top.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Chuck

[dafi]

WOW, what a wonderful beast!

 

Great work, love it!

 

I think in the "Trafalgar Companion" is a overview of how all the flags were believed to have been set.

 

Cheers, Daniel

Edited January 5, 2014 by dafi

[Stockholm tar]

Mike,

 

In addition to what has already been said:

 

I don't believe the Victory would have worn the red-white-blue Union pennant at the main truck, but rather as BE said, the plain white. The Union pennant was normally reserved for ships on detached service, i.e. they were on their own, and worn with a red ensign – the senior flag in the then squadronal system. (Unfortunately many kit firms supply this pennant for the Victory, which I think is incorrect.)

 

The small piece of wood at the top of flags is called the 'toggle' and was slipped into an eyesplice in one end of the halliard. The bottom of the flag had a short length of line attached, with an eyesplice in its end. The other end of the halliard was bent to it with a sheetbend. The mast trucks by the way were fitted with two sets of halliards, one to larboard, the other to starboard. So far as I know, the halliards would actually have come down to the deck, and belayed at the after end of the shrouds, for each mast.

 

I note you have the white ensign hoisted at the mizzen peak, but that you also appear to have the ensign staff shipped. I'm not sure the latter would have been fitted at the same time, being normally used for when the ship was in harbour or at anchor. In fact I would have used the staff, seeing that you have the jack on the bowsprit.

 

Btw, a very fine model, I'm sure the museum will be proud to exhibit it.

[mikec]

Thankyou everybody. I appreciate the time you all have taken to help me and your kind comments on my model. I wont use the union pennant.

So is the white pendant just that? A white elongated triangle?

[mikec]

Also I may move the union jack to the foremast backstay- I have toggle and splice at the corner of the flag-but still don't know how to attach and hoist up the flag up the stay

[Blue Ensign]

Hi Mike, re the White pennant, it is the same as the Union version at the hoist -  a cross of St George, the rest is plain white.

 

About moving the Union Flag from the Jack, it was suspended from the Fore Topmast Stay, not to be confused with the Foremast Backstay, and only during the Battle.

 

I think it would be unusual to display the Union flag in this way on a bare stick model, but obviously the choice is yours.

 

B.E.

[mikec]

More Progress:

I have made the Davits, I used plastic strip to make the foot cleats, and brass to make the hinges that attached to ships side. I rigged off the ship.

Pics show davits prior to final clean up and assembly to ship.

 

I found that in handling the small parts, paint rubs off the sharp edges, so I always do finall clean up once assembled to the ship.

Edited January 8, 2014 by mikec

[mikec]

Back to the Flags and Pennants. 8-/

 

Sorry to be a pain, I know where I want to place them (on the stays) but still unsure how?

 

See diagramme (with questions)

[gjdale]

Hi Mike,

 

Really nice work on the davits my friend! I may (read definitely will) copy your method with these.

 

Re your flag attachment question,I would simply make the halyard in a similar fashion, with a loop in one end and a toggle in the other, making attachment of the flag quick and easy, and being able to secure on itself when the flag is not in use.

 

I think I said in a previous post that my understanding is that the haliards were rove through sheaves in the mast trucks. The only refernce for this I can find in Longridge is on pg 182 (about the middle of the last paragraph). He is describing the making of the Fore topgallant mast and says, "... then fit the truck...and bore in it two small holes for the flag haliard."

 

Hope this helps.

[gjdale]

Mike,

 

This also from Lees (pg62): "Halliards were used for hoisting up the flags. Usually a sheave was fitted on each side of the truck and the Halliards hitched to any convenient point on the bulwarks". He also mentions that this arrangement was common to Fore, Main and Mizzen masts.

 

Cheers,

Grant

[mikec]

Thanks Grant, although i am still confused as to the triangular rope configuration and how it was attached to a stay??

 

Completed Davits.

 

Now working on the mast cap support pillars. (see Longridge Diagramme, and my foremast top)

 

TO DO:

Cap support pillars

Flags (unresolved)

Seats of ease

At least 1 ships boat (launch)

Gunport lid lifts (haven't figured best way to do this yet- want to do on ship, and not pull each lid off)
 

Edited January 11, 2014 by mikec

[mikec]

Grant - how did you do your gunport lids? Did you still use the kit hinges which have the ringbolts moulded ?

Also did you add the "squiggles" above the lids? I managed to make these out of "L" profile plastic strip (you can see these in view of davits above)

[Blue Ensign]

Your Victory looks very impressive Mike.

 

Re the long pennant; it wasn't attached to a stay as you show it in your diagram, rather  it was worn directly at the Main Mast head with the halliard passing thro' the sheaves in the trucks atop the mast.

 

The arrangement with the triangular attachment to the hoist of the pennant seems to be to keep the hoist  rigid by attaching it to a short wooden pole to which the  hoist was attached to the halliard.

 

These shot from my French Seventy-four build may assist to show what I mean.

 

 

 

The small diameter of the masthead on my build prevented the fitting of sheaves through the masthead truck which is the proper arrangement.

 

Hope this helps.

 

B.E.

[mikec]

Thank you so much BE. that clears it up for me.

[gjdale]

Hi Mike,

 

Looks like B.E. has answered your query on flag arrangements.

 

Re the gun port lids, I added eye bolts to both inner and outer faces of the lid (in addition to the kit supplied hinges). I then used Gil Middleton's splice technique to add the lanyards. These lanyards were fitted in situ on the ship. I did not add the "squiggles" - mine will remain sans squiggles

[mikec]

Thanks heaps everyone.

I have made the support fillers for the mast heads. i fashioned them using my dremmel drill as a  lathe. They have been sprayed with undercoat  ready for painting.

 

I have also made plans and templates for a scatchbuilt launch.  I drew this on my mac in Illustrator, I decided to use the same technique as i did with my Endeavour boat. (using a jig for the  frames, then plank onto the frames.

 

Believe it or not this drawing took hours to figure out. I am going to print it out and stick it to the boxwood ply and cut out the shapes by hand.

 

Now to see if I have measured and drafted everything correctly….it should work….

[gjdale]

I'll look forward to seeing your launch evolve Mike. Scratch building these little guys at 1:90 scale is lots of fun!

[mikec]

I have started building the launch. Based on what i have learned from this site, and my Endeavour.

so far so good. 

I printed my drawings and glued to the ply, then cut out all the frames with a craft knife. i decided to keep the frames solid as at this scale they were too brittle to hollow out. I will carve the frames and thin to size once i have planked. The jig made a nice solid plateform to fare the edges of the frames. Next stage planking….

 

Edited January 13, 2014 by mikec

[mikec]

more progress. planked and fared the launch, then sprayed with undercoat ready for careful removal from jig. i am very please with the result considering the small scale. the pictures tell the story...

[mikec]

Guys I have been very busy this weekend. Also worked on the real boat that I race on in New Zealand (Ta Aroa) she is a 60ft sloop and  was built in 1961 out of Kauri. She has an illustrious racing career having won the Auckland to Suva yacht race in race record time held for 13 years. We have discovered that she has been attacked by an old enemy that you all will be familiar with, the Toledo worm. We have cut out the affected part (you can see the wood around the rudder). it was a pleasure working at this scale from my launch LOL. We have a week to get her ready for a classic regatta race in 1 week. All hands on deck!

 

Thought you might be interested. cheers Mike

Edited January 19, 2014 by mikec

[gjdale]

Your little launch is turning out very nicely Mike. Hope you don't get too distracted by the 1:1 project!

[mikec]

Back to small scale, i successfully removed the launch from the jig, and have now carved out the solid pieces to form the inner frames. I just need to fare them from the inside, clean up and apply filler then add the smaller half frames with plastic strip

Edited January 20, 2014 by mikec