Which is the best Victory?

[Keith_W]

The HMS Victory has been on my bucket list for years. I think I have finally accumulated enough skills to attempt it. The question is - which kit version is the best? By this I mean - which has the best fittings, the best instructions, the most historically accurate, and the one which will come together with the least amount of pain? 

 

The last time I looked, there were HMS Victory kits from: 

- Caldercraft / Jotika

- Mamoli

- Corel

- Artesania Latina

- Billings

 

I am leaning towards the Caldercraft version - I have seen many build logs on MSW, I have downloaded the instructions, and the company does seem to be very supportive. 

 

Any opinions? 

 

(I did a search for Victory and there were 6 pages of results. I looked through every page, and have read at least a dozen build logs!)

[Glenn-UK]

Hi

I opted for the Caldercraft (JoTika) kit after much research. I have been impressed so far although I'm only a few hours into the build.

 

I did have a problem, and found JoTika to be very supportive.

 

Glenn

[maggsl_01]

_{Hi all...}

 

_{very interesting thread... I just startet with building modelships from wood... Still do the Half Moon, but of course the Victory is on my wishlist (also Friedrich Wilhelm zu Pferde, Wappen von Hamburg, Endeavour and Berlin). So I am very curious about the opinions of our fellows...}

 

_{Good luck to all}  

[Ensign]

Hi Amfibius,

 

My vote is the Caldercraft Victory followed by Mamoli, I don't know much about the others. Having said that I have the Mamoli Victory which I am happy to sell since I had an unexpected windfall recently and couldn't resist temptation, so bought the Caldercraft version. I also live in Melbourne so if you are interested we could come to an arrangement, I have enhanced the Mamoli kit with extra bits to improve it. I have not started the Mamoli kit so it is as purchased except for said extras

 

Gary

[Keith_W]

Glenn, I have been reading your build log although I haven't commented in it yet. I noted the problem where Caldercraft mis-labelled one of the bulkheads and your subsequent error. IF I do buy the Caldercraft kit I will be looking out for it. The feedback from the various build logs has been invaluable. 

 

Thanks for the reply and offer Gary, but I suspect that i will only live long enough to finish ONE Victory in my lifetime so I want it to be the best I would love to hear what you think of both your kits though, since you have them in your possession. Obviously you can't talk about how easily they build, but you can tell me more about the instructions, the wood, the fittings, etc ... ?

Edited January 13, 2014 by Amfibius

[Ensign]

Hi Keith,

 

Caldercraft wins on all counts. I have heard some criticism of their instructions, but with this forum and experience as a model builder I don't see this as a big problem, common sense and forethought plays a big part. The Mamoli instructions leave a bit to be desired but the wood isn't bad, fittings fair, rigging line I would replace and did. Mamoli also requires a lot more fabricating of parts from wooden stock while Caldercraft parts are largely laser cut so much less work involved there, although still a challenge. Caldercraft fittings are in my opinion excellent and it is the most authentic Victory available at the moment.

Hope this helps.

 

Gary

[pompey2]

Hi Keith

It's Caldercraft for me. It is a good scale, allowing a lot of extra detail to be added.

It is sold as an 'advanced' kit so the manuals assume a certain level of knowledge.

Having said that I find them comprehensive and easy to follow.

The drawings are very good, 18 full size sheets.

And I have had good response from them on damaged/missing parts

Nick

[shihawk]

Has anyone built a BILLINGS Victory???  Im thinking of one for my third build .Problem is i can buy a 1:75 Billings for £289    but the 1:72 Caldercraft is £708 .  I should add i build for pleasure not authenticity and dont mind solving a few problems as i go along ,thats what you guys are for afterall ,im just wondering for someone of my limited experience is it worth paying more than twice the price, surely the scales are very similiar and i know billings dont have great instructions but my experience of their materials is reasonably good.maybe i should practice on the billings and then buy a caldercraft .

[Ulises Victoria]

If you want the very best, I would wait for the Amati Victory in 1/64 by our own Chris Watton.

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/985-amati-and-chris-watton/

[Keith_W]

Thanks for the recommendation Ulisses, but nobody knows when that Amati Victory is going to be released. It does look to be pretty spectacular ... and heavy. I have built an Amati kit before but wasn't too impressed with the wood or the thread supplied for the rigging. I would hope that for a kit like this, they wouldn't skimp. The model design might be good, but that does not necessarily mean that the kit will be good  

 

I suppose I could make another model in the interim while I wait. 

[Glenn-UK]

The problem with the marking was partly my fault as I did not check the cut-out shapes on the sheets with the manual. JoTika were brilliant and sent the replacement parts quickly and these were correctly etched. I suspectthey my have adjusted the tooling to avoid this error in future

[demonborger]

Caldercraft is the best on the market currently.

 

 

I have the Mamoli 1:90 kit, the instructions aren't so good but the basic skeleton is very solid and the kit can build into something nice. It is smaller which is an advantage and certainly better than the Corel, Constructo and Mantua ~1:98 kits.  That being said the Royal Louis by Mamoli is a much nicer kit.

[Kevin]

i can only go with the Caldercraft, as it is the only one i have tried, plenty of build logs around to help you as well

look forward to seeing your progress

Edited January 16, 2014 by Kevin

[Keith_W]

All right, Caldercraft it is then!

[demonborger]

Yeah you'd want to take advantage of the fact that the Caldecraft one has ply gunport patterns, that the bottom of the hull is doubled planked and coppered. That the scale is larger so gives you more room to work with. Also the instructions are likely better than the italian and spanish manufacturers kits.

 

Another bonus is that the Victory is usually painted and so with wood filler and thorough sanding you can get a nice smooth surface to paint, and after a few thin coats you can build up to a nice finish.

 

All of this will take time of course.

[Ulises Victoria]

  That being said the Royal Louis by Mamoli is a much nicer kit.

Strangely, there is only one build log of this kit: yours.

There will be two soon, though!

I think the RL is a magnificent ship, but maybe the price of this kit is scaring some builders away? 

I wouldn't have it if it wasn't because ME had it at 450 dlls. one day, and I just couldn't let pass the opportunity.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Ulises Victoria

[Kevin]

i appreciate that i dont know your circumstances, lol this is not a quick build, some have been in build for several years and some longer, but well worth the money in the long term, i am at approx 880 hours and at a quess about 25/30% completed, presently on hold while i do a plastic kit - but hope to be back by Easter

Edited January 16, 2014 by Kevin

[demonborger]

Honestly I have no idea why the Royal Louis has so few builds :/

 

http://gallery.shipmodeling.ru/main.php?g2_itemId=76728

 

There is a Russian build which is so so so so much better than mine :/

 

Some parts can be changed (wooden head rails instead of cast metal) if the builder so desires, and the instructions could be a lot better. But the core ship in my mind is the most beautiful of all available in kit form.

 

Hmm I need to really finish off the hull of my mamoli Victory so people can see a comparison between the two. It will enlighten many

[Kevin]

although i am taking the thread in the wrong direction, i wish i had gone for the Euromodel Royal William, - they have some real nice discounts sometimes, providing the Victory is not my last build, then that would possibly be the next

[Jaxboat]

I suggest the Jotika Victory if you want to build the model now. However, Kevin has a good point. Euromodel has really upped their game with much better instructions . Look on their website. Royal William is awesome.

 

I could kick myself for not buying Royal Louis like Ulises did when it was rediculaously discounted by Model Expo . Carpe Diem!

I am waiting to see what happens with Chris Watton's Victory. I might end up with a hernia getting into my workshop and I will need to add a room to my house to display it but, based on what Mr Watton showed us on his blog, it would be well worth it!

Best

Jaxboat

[Ulises Victoria]

Honestly I have no idea why the Royal Louis has so few builds :/

 

http://gallery.shipmodeling.ru/main.php?g2_itemId=76728

 

There is a Russian build which is so so so so much better than mine :/

 

Some parts can be changed (wooden head rails instead of cast metal) if the builder so desires, and the instructions could be a lot better. But the core ship in my mind is the most beautiful of all available in kit form.

 

Hmm I need to really finish off the hull of my mamoli Victory so people can see a comparison between the two. It will enlighten many

Wow demonborger... thanks for that Russian link. That build is awesome. That guy surely spent a lot of time just nailing stuff and making rings LOL.

I will surely get some inspiration there when the time comes.

[samueljr]

Don't think you can unquestionably annoint a kit better then others of the same subject matter (for the most part).  Granted there will some kits that are so lacking that they are lesser "raw product". Once you start comparing the legitamate kits it's all the same - it comes down to the builder.

 

Give a less skilled or novice builder Caldercraft's VICTORY (for example) do you think it would look better than say Grant's Mamoli VICTORY - No.

 

If you're just trying to determine which kit offers better fittings, wood, instructions, etc. you can do that. That wont gaurentee the end product - ultimately the builder will. 

[shihawk]

im beginning to think that nobody thinks a lot about the Billings VICTORY .As i said earlier a 1:75 can be bought for less than £300 even if not brilliant is it not good value for money. 

[Kevin]

im beginning to think that nobody thinks a lot about the Billings VICTORY .As i said earlier a 1:75 can be bought for less than £300 even if not brilliant is it not good value for money. 

lol

[gjdale]

Don't think you can unquestionably annoint a kit better then others of the same subject matter (for the most part).  Granted there will some kits that are so lacking that they are lesser "raw product". Once you start comparing the legitamate kits it's all the same - it comes down to the builder.

 

Give a less skilled or novice builder Caldercraft's VICTORY (for example) do you think it would look better than say Grant's Mamoli VICTORY - No.

 

If you're just trying to determine which kit offers better fittings, wood, instructions, etc. you can do that. That wont gaurentee the end product - ultimately the builder will.

 

:blush:

 

That's very kind of you to say so Sam, but I would be among the first to say that on all the criteria that has been mentioned, the Mamoli kit leaves a lot to be desired. However, at the time I bought the kit (1995), it was probably the best available on the market (not sure when the CC version became available).

 

From what I have seen on this forum, I would have to agree that the Caldercraft/Jotika kit is the best version of Victory currently available. If I we're in the market for one though I'd be hanging out to get a hold of the new a Amati version by Chris Watton. At a scale of 1:64, it might be just a little bit "huge", but just imagine the amount of extra detail and the additional ease of working at that larger scale! Of course, this also assumes that money is no object...........

[samueljr]

Grant, you're welcome and believe me it's very well deserved.  

 

Like you bought the Mamoli VIC a long time ago and somehow I've never even started it. I was initially waiting to I felt my skills would produce the finished product I desired. But every time I was ready to start "something else" came up to build. So as of this morning I have a 20+/- year old Mamoli VIC (new in box) sitting on the shelf.

 

More recently I've thought about selling it off and trading over to the Caldercraft version but then I think (and see your build) and ask myself (other than size) what difference will the finished product look like? I've got all the usual reference books etc so I'm not lacking there. I'm going to switch out the line and the blocks. I'll either extremely bash and or scratch build a majority of the fittings so how am I ahead by swapping one for the other? Maybe a little more historical accuarcy in the stern galleries? Better guns? 

 

My original point in the previous post is that in the hands of an experienced builder (one who is going to bash/replace/upgrade) a number of aspects I dont know that one kit is that much different than the other.

 

If a builder just wants to build to the box top photo than what's inside will have an influence. The builder still has to be upto the task skill wise - if not, then kit quality isn't the real influence on finished product.

 

Sam

[demonborger]

It is true that most kits can be kitbashed into something great if the builder knows how.

 

But if we take the original measure we get "By this I mean - which has the best fittings, the best instructions, the most historically accurate, and the one which will come together with the least amount of pain? "

 

Which by most peoples accounts is the Caldercraft kit.

[demonborger]

You can see the Billing Boats HMS Victory instructions on their website. It is  fairly well engineered kit if you don't have perfectionist standards with plenty of laser cut parts. 

 

ARe you sure it still has the plastic fittings? Sometimes the kits have materials updated or changed over time. For example the older Mamoli kits were machine cut and supplied shaped wooden launchboats, where as the newer ones have cast metal launchboats and laser cut parts. It's possible it is still so, and if that is the case then you'd definitely want to buy wooden replacements.

 

Also it doesn't have copper plates as far as I know which are costly to purchase, or you could use copper tape which is cheaper but harder to make look nice.

 

Kits take a fair time commitment and the Caldercraft kit won't really need any supplementing materials other than glue, knife blades and paint.

 

If you aren't a perfectionist then the Billing boats kit is ok.

[shihawk]

Tks Brian C  your advice is always valued  .As this victory will only be my third build i still have a lot to learn and  a bit of kit bashing is a whole new experience. As i mentioned in earlier posts i prefer to avoid painting or coppering so this would be a big cheapish kit to try out some of my ideas . it will keep me busy until the 1:64 victory comes on the market ?????

[demonborger]

Why not try another ship and wait for the Amati Victory if that is your desire?

 

Perhaps the Agamemnon (also in 1:64)?