Echo by jml1083 - cross-section

[jml1083]

Hi all,

 

I'm back from my weekend in Towson, MD for the Echo cross section workshop. I'll start off by saying "WOW!" This workshop was well worth the money I paid, and more. David and Greg are highly skilled gentlemen who know how to convey their years of experience to builders of all skill levels. As a rank beginner I worried that I'd be left in the dust by others much more knowledgeable than myself - that never happened. David and Greg gave a number of demos, each one taking us deeper and deeper into the skills needed for a build of this sort. In between demos everyone worked at their own pace and David and Greg were right there to answer any and all questions. The group had just 10 students and it really felt as if I was getting one-on-one instruction. This workshop was one of the best investments I could have made to further my ship building skills. Thank you David and Greg!

 

As stated in a previous post I did purchase the full Echo cross section kit and work will commence on it very shortly. Jeff from Hobby Mill always provides more than enough material and I've decided that between the material I have left over from the home work and what was supplied with the full framing kit that I am going to build a new keel for my official build. Everything posted up to this point was getting ready for the workshop. Now that I've attended the workshop I think I can do better (maybe even much better) so I'm going to start from scratch.

 

I did get one frame built during the workshop but did not raise it for a number of reasons. The primary one was I was worried about getting it home in one piece. Here is the final product from my weekend (raised frame at home).

 

echo_a

 

This is my cross chock. There is a slight blemish on the right side of the chock where the drill bit wandered too close to the side instead of going through the bottom. On the real deal I will be more mindful of this possible issue. For a first pass I'm pretty happy with it, even at this magnification the joints are not too noticeable.

 

echo_b

[dvm27]

Terrific first frame, Jim. Others might wonder about spending a whole weekend to make one frame. But the techniques you learned will translate to all your scratch building work. If you're worried about that blemish just reverse the frame as the blemish won't be visible on the aft side. Just make sure to reverse the treenail pattern to match.

[Trussben]

Your a lucky man Jim to be able to attend that workshop, I'd love to but work gets in the way unfortunatly.

 

Excellent work on the first frame and Im sure your build will continue to get even better.

 

ben

[JeffT]

Bens right, I envy all of you that are able to attend the workshop.

[Rustyj]

That's a great job on your frame Jim. I look forward to seeing you do the rest.

[jml1083]

Greg, you are correct. My goal for the weekend was not to create anything in particular or a set number of frames but to learn how to do it and to do it correctly. I was taking my time and trying to absorb it all. For me the pace of the workshop was perfect, not to fast but not too slow either. I think everyone profited greatly from it. You can be sure I'll be signing up for the spar building workshop in the fall.

 

The other side of the frame looks worse so I glued this up as you see it here. Since I'm going to start over this will be a reminder to me to think about what I'm doing and try to anticipate problems.

 

I am going to attempt something I always said I wouldn't do, I'm going to work on two models at the same time. I'm going to work on my Echo cross section at the same time I finish up my Bluenose. I'll be keeping logs on both.

 

Ben & Jeff, I do feel lucky to live where I live as access to these workshops is fairly easy for me.

 

Thanks Rusty, I'll see how successful I am at working on two builds at once. Time will tell. 

[TomShipModel]

Excellent job Jim.  I wish that I could move as fast as you.  I've started too many projects and I need to start finishing something (my Mother used to say that my eyes are bigger than my stomach).  Your progress is really tempting me to get moving on Echo.

[WackoWolf]

Nice work Jim. Will be watching all the way. Keep the pictures coming.

[Cap'n Rat Fink]

Great attitude Jim,

    can't wait to see your next attempt....

[jml1083]

Thanks Mario, but I'm going to adopt some of your attitude and your disaster with your Echo. Today I started to get serious on Echo v.2 when minor disaster struck. I use a very old industrial scroll saw. It's a Rockwell Delta 24" with cast iron base and frame. I bought it at an auction in the late 70's and initially used it for marquetry. At some point we moved and the scroll saw and all my veneer went into mothballs. Another 3 or 4 moves and the saw is almost completely forgotten about, almost but not quite.

 

When I got back from the Echo workshop I realized it was time to dust the beast off and put it back to work. I filled the oil sump, checked the main spring and then disassembled and cleaned the blade holders. The bottom one was pretty straight forward but the upper one is made of 4 parts that fit together inside a small housing. With everything clean and ready for action I put in a new blade and cut my first futtock. It worked like a charm. As I was about half way through my second futtock there was a loud snap and the upper blade holder dropped down on the table. The problem is an hour ago there were 4 pieces, now there are only 3.

 

I looked around the saw and it didn't land on the table or the base. Then I looked at the floor. The floor that is rough concrete with paint splatters from a thousand projects. The floor that hasn't been swept in years. Somewhere on THAT floor was my piece. My tiny 3/8 x 3/8 x 1/8 inch piece which is absolutely critical for holding the blade. Gone. I swept the floor in an area much larger than the part could have flown but no luck. Next I stuck a rare earth magnet on the end of a dowel and went fishing in the junk that came off the floor. Tacks, staples, flakes of rust, screws that had been run over a couple of times, everything you can imagine but the part I needed.

 

The good news is that since I had just cleaned the part I know exactly what it looks like. The bad news is that I'm going to have to fabricate one if this saw is ever to see action again. Luckily I have my Bluenose to keep me busy while I ponder how to exactly how to do that. I'll keep you posted how it goes.

[Cap'n Rat Fink]

HAHA!. Don't you just love it Jim. Preventive maintenance, then you think well if I hadn't of cleaned it, it would of seized up permanently. I have confidence in you to find that little thing.

    Still there is nothing but a positive re-action here. Years of an unswept floor, now your floor is clean. I will start my rebuild eventually. But painting the house interior and the modeling room is a disaster right now.

[druxey]

Oh, Jim! Sounds like at least it's a simple part to fabricate. And, please, please keep your floor clean for safety reasons if no other.

[jml1083]

Hi Guys,

 

Yep, points well taken. The shop is a room built down in the basement, part of which is a root cellar. The area where the scroll saw is now located used to be (many moons ago) the garage. When my son moved back after college it quickly went from being a garge for my car to storage for his stuff. He is now married with a house of his own and my daughter also has a house of their own. I still own a bunch of their stuff and it is stored you know where. This area is also used for all sorts of other projects from snowblower reconstruction to building cabinets. There are clear paths between sections but he who strays into an uncharted area is at his own peril

 

Last night that part kept bothering me so I headed back down to take a crack at making a new part (you are correct Mario, it wasn't hard to make). In short order I had a new part that fit very well and I was back in business. For a while. The old saying, "never overlook the obvious" was never more true. After using my shinny new part for a bit the blade slipped out. No problem, I'll just tighten the set screw a wee bit more. That only worked for a couple of strokes. I gave it one more try and the result was the same. Recognizing that I had over looked something (didn't know what yet) I took the blade holder assembly apart. It quickly became apparent that putting a hardened steel blade between two pieces of steel, one older than dirt (and made out of hardened steel) and my shinny new piece (made out of soft steel) was not a well thought out plan. The soft steel was pretty well scarred from the blade being pulled over the face. That piece is now scrap and I'll be out of the shop for a few days so version two will have to wait. Once I make it, it will be introduced to a propane torch and cold water before it goes back into the saw. Live and learn as they say.

 

This would all be sort of fun if fixing saws is what I did to relax.

 

Onward and upward!

[jml1083]

The scroll saw is fixed and in under an hour I cut all the components for the first frame. When I turned on my disk sander to work on the chocks there was a loud pop, a puff of blue smoke and the unmistakable smell of burn electrical. This would be a disaster if not for the fact I have a Byrnes sander on order - I believe my antique sander had somehow heard a replacement was in the works (it was very old, the face wobbled a bit and the table had a habit of not staying square to the face). I ordered the sander a couple weeks ago so hopefully it will arrive soon.

 

In the mean time the plan is to continue cutting components and keeping them organized so that when the sander arrives I'll be in good shape to get several frames done is short order. I'll post some photos when I have something good enough for show & tell.

 

My wife visited me in the shop the other night while I was cutting futtocks. She stood watching for awhile and then said "Do you really enjoy doing this?" to which I answered "Yes I really do!". To tell the truth at first I wasn't sure I would enjoy cutting all the pieces needed and to the tolerances required but now that I've started I can honestly say it's fun. It might be different it I was doing a complete Echo or Swan but the cross section is big enough to really get a feel for it but not so big that you'll still be cutting futtocks a year or two from now.

 

Onward and upward!

[druxey]

RIP your disk sander. You are having a time with your power tools!

[jml1083]

Good morning Druxey,

 

It would seem that way but considering their age they have served me very well. Back in the late 70s and early 80s I picked up several industrial tools when local manufacturing plants either shut down or modernized. Although they were industrial machines I did not pay an industrial price for them 

 

My Rockwell scroll saw is a beast that if it weighed even 10 pounds more I would need help moving it. The sander was also very beefy but not as well made. It would have been a real hardship if I couldn't get the scroll saw back in action but I was able to mill a new part for it and it is running well. The sander is beyond all hope but my new Byrnes sander will arrive via UPS on Wednesday and then I expect to be back in action with all boilers online and the EOT calling for all ahead flank!

 

I have two complete frames cut and should get a third cut tonight. Once the sander arrives I hope to start making progress I can post photos of.

[druxey]

Enjoy your new sander!

[jml1083]

This past weekend I worked on the floor timbers as well as the cross chocks and first futtocks. I laid out the cross chocks in such a way that I could get the most work done with a minimum of set up changes, primarily on the mill. The following photo shows how I laid out the cross chocks to be cut. Once I rubber cemented the templates to the billet I made one long cut along the bottom and when I got to 5F-CC I cut this piece off.

 

Now I had a narrow strip of wood with the 6 cross chocks in it. The next step was to cut up into the rabbet in the center of each chock. I did this on the scroll saw and made a number of cuts into each rabbet so what I ended up with was a number of very thin fingers sticking up – the look was that of a very tiny feather board.

 

You will also notice 2 red arrows pointing to chock 1F-CC, I’ll explain those with the next photo.

 

04-16-13a

 

In this next photo (04-16-13b) I’m milling the rabbets. I kept all of the chocks connected for this step as  it’s easier to position it in the vice. To make my cuts more precise before I put the strip in the vice I used a #11 X-Acto blade to cut the paper template exactly on the lines that define the rabbet. You can see that here where I marked the cut lines in red. By cutting away the paper template I eliminated the fuzz that often appears when mill through the paper to get to the final line. With the template out of the way I was able to mill the rabbet with very tight tolerances.

 

In the first photo I had 2 red arrows. These point to the top shoulder of each chock. When I put the long strip in the vice for milling I used these two points to accurately set up a level line for milling for each individual chock. With the work now square in all directions (I used a dial indicator to make sure) I milled the rabbets. You can see at the right side of this photo a completed rabbet, the middle is in the process of being milled and the one on the left is next.

 

04-16-13b

 

After milling all of the rabbets I test fit them to the keel to make sure the depth was correct and also that the center of the chock fell exactly over the centerline of the keel.

 

You’ll notice that I left a lot of meat at the top of the chock and also the sides and that I didn’t cut the angled parts yet. I did that later.

 

04-16-13c

 

The next task was to cut the first futtocks. Using the labeling system I talked about earlier I marked up all the futtock templates, cut them from the frame diagrams and rubber cemented them to the billets. Layout was done to conserve wood and also minimize the cutting needed. In a number of cases I was able to place the templates close enough together where a single cut served as the bottom cut on one piece as well as the top cut on the one below it.

 

04-16-13d

 

Here are the floor timbers. They were cut out using the same process as I used for the first futtocks. You can see that I again cut tiny slots where the rabbet will be milled.

 

04-16-13e

 

I milled the scarph joints in two steps because the two faces do not meet at a 90° angle. Using my X-Acto knife I again cut right on the line for shoulder and face of the scarph joint as indicated on the template. Removing the paper from the area to be milled really made the machining process must easier. The first cut was to face “A”. When I put the piece in the vice I used the very sharp line where the paper was cut as a guide to locate the piece in the vice. The red line in the photo was positioned so that it was parallel to the top surface of the vice. After milling face “A” I repositioned the piece in the vice to mill surface “B”. In this photo you can see how the sharp line left were the paper was cut makes it very easy to position the piece in the vice.

 

04-16-13f

 

First futtocks cut, sanded and scarphs milled. The rabbets are milled in the cross chocks.

 

04-16-13g

 

Next I cut pieces of wood to simulate the keel and rubber cemented them to the frame drawing. The cutout you see was so that when I glued the cross chocks to the futtocks with wood glue, the glue would not stick to the template. After the glue has set I rubber cemented each of the futtocks to the frame template. I made very fine adjustments to the surfaces where the futtocks meet the keel to ensure the surfaces mated perfectly.

 

04-16-13h

 

Somehow I did not get photos of the chocks glued to the futtocks. With the substitute keel in place and the futtocks butted up against it and glued to the template I fitted the cross chocks. First I sanded the sides to within a whisker of the vertical lines on the sides. I left more meat on the angled sections then I test fit the chock. I kept making very minor adjustments to the sides until the chock sides would fit into the gap. Next I sanded the angled sides, again making very minor reductions until the chock just fit. Once the chock was correct in all respects (except for the excess wood I left on top) I removed the keel substitute and glued the cross chock in place. I removed the substitute keel so the carpenter’s glue would not accidently glue the substitute keel to the chock or futtocks. After allowing the wood glue to dry I peeled the paper template from the assembled futtock. I took each completed floor timber or futtock and on the top of the rabbet wrote the frame number and an arrow pointing forward. With this marking made I removed the paper templates that were used to fabricate all the individual pieces.

 

The next two photos show the final result. Nothing is glued to the keel in these photos and very minor shimming is needed on some of the pieces, this will be done when I permanently attach everything to the keel. You’ll notice that I left a bit of wood on the tops of the cross chocks when I sanded. This will allow me to make fine adjustments to how the piece sits on the keel, if I need the entire thing to sit a little lower I can remove a very thin slice of wood from the bottom of the rabbet. Once those adjustments are made the tops will be sanded so the tops of each piece are the correct height.

 

04-16-13i

 

In this next photo some of the pieces look grossly out of shape but that is due to the photography and the pieces needing to be shimmed.

 

04-16-13j

 

At this point I’m getting ready to make a lot of treenails and once that is done I’ll drill the necessary holes. After that I’ll start on the second futtocks for the floor timbers.

[dvm27]

Well done, Jim!

[jml1083]

Thanks Greg. Once the tool issues were resolved I was able to make some real progress. I'm waiting on wood for the masts and spars on my Bluenose so for the time being all time spent in the shipyard is dedicated to the Echo. I'm having a lot of fun with it.

 

David would say that I have fully crossed over to the dark side. I tried a number of times using chisels but more times than not either the fit was bad or the piece chipped with the last cut I made. I'm pretty quickly getting the hang of the mill and it allows me to do things that my shaky hands and arthritic fingers won't. The Byrnes disk sander is icing on the cake. I can consistently and accurately take off minute amounts of wood until a chock fits perfectly.

[druxey]

Well, whatever works for you, Jim. I'll stick with chisels for now, thank you very much! Looks like you are progressing nicely. Good stuff!

[mtaylor]

Jim,

 

Looks great.  Nice, clean milling work. 

[dvm27]

Don't feel bad about those machines, Jim. I do surgery for a living and still don't get as precise a cut as Druxey does with a chisel. But with my Byrnes arsonal I have no problem getting perfect joints in a very quick manner. I like to think if Byrnes Model Machines were around in the 1700's every model shop in the shipyard would have a complete set to build their navy board models. As a matter of fact, they did have lathes, only they were foot powered.

[Trussben]

Well done Jim, you have made superb progress!! I hope mine look half as good when I get started.

Again well done.

 

Ben

[Rustyj]

Hi Jim, Looking really good. I like your method of batch cutting.

[jml1083]

Hi Druxey, with age comes wisdom, at least I hope so, you don't get much in the bargain. Some of the wisdom I've gotten over time is learning that I have limits and sooner or later accepting them. I use power tools to augment frailties that cropped up over time. When I carve, which isn't often anymore, I still use my hand chisels and lignum vitae mallet. Years ago I had an opportunity to try a pneumatic carver and hated it because I couldn't feel the cut of the wood like I could with hand chisels. Sometimes you have to compromise or give up and since I don't like giving up things I enjoy, I adapt. Power tools are one of those adaptations for me. All things being equal I'd much rather be able to build my ships without power tools, if nothing else for the extra bragging rights. I saw David (Antscherl) work with his chisels and it was wonderful to watch. For me, watching a fine craftsman with his tools is one of life's joys.

 

Greg, Ben and Rusty, yep it IS coming along which is more of a surprise me than probably anyone else. This is a really enjoyable build partly because before I went to Greg & David's workshop I didn't think I could scratch build anything more complex than firewood.

 

My biggest challenge is understanding the drawings. Prior to this I had completed the Armed Virginia Sloop using a Bob Hunt practicum and on my own I built Midwest's Muscongus Bay lobster smack. Going from those to the drawings that we build the Echo from is quiet a leap. To me being difficult does not mean not fun, to tell the truth I think 90% of people who build ships would walk away from the hobby if they woke up one day and everything was suddenly easy. It's the problem solving, I think, that draws a lot of us to the hobby.

 

That's it from here. There's a cast 3rd futtock shifted long top timber floor with my name on it so I better get back to work. Only kidding Greg, even I know that a cast and shifted 3rd futtock top timber floor can't also be long

[Cap'n Rat Fink]

LOOKS FANTASTIC JIM!!!

[druxey]

You are right Jim: the one aspect of model-making that has enduring appeal is problem-solving. And there are always new problems to solve!

[captainscott]

Hey Jim,

it looks great and thanks for explaining everything so clearly. It definitely helps me follow along better.

[jml1083]

If time truly flies when you are having fun, I must be having a ball because I have no idea where the last 2 weeks went. The following photos show my progress to date.

 

Starting forward and working my way aft we have:

deadflat 1 - I have to add chocks to this. All joints are glued and tape keeps things flagged as fragile until I can add the chocks. It looks as though the top of the starboard side is out of alignment, that is the gap under the piece as well as a dollop of parallax.

 

1 forward - complete except to sand down the chocks. I left most proud because it made them easier for me to handle. They will all pay a visit to the oscillating sander before long.

 

1 aft - top timbers still needed.

 

2 aft - complete.

 

3 aft - top timbers needed.

 

4 forward - complete

 

4 aft - top timbers needed.

 

5 forward - complete

 

5 aft - top timbers needed.

 

You may have noticed that deadflat 0 is missing. I noticed that too. I suspect that I pulled it out of the line up when I noticed some imperfection. Since this is my first effort at this sort of thing as I learn my work gets gradually better. A piece that early on was shown with great pride to friends and neighbors and anyone I met on the street doesn't pass muster a week later. I think that is called progress.

 

During the workshop Greg told me (several times) to leave a little meat on the pieces when I sand so that I have something to work with when it comes to fairing the hull. Back when I was a cabinet maker I'd be presented with a piece of wood with a line drawn on it. I'd ask the person giving it to me if he wanted me to leave the line, divide the line or erase the line with the cut. Leaving more than a whisper of wood outside the line is a habit I'm having trouble breaking. Maybe when it comes time to fair this I'll learn.

 

Still learning. Still having fun learning!